Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MoonlitIllusion]

And this is why I REALLY want characters from Switch games. That's not a very exciting list of games to choose from, and the only characters that seem somewhat plausible are a SuMo Pokémon and a Sticker Star and Color Splash-inspired Paper Mario.

Tbh when talking about switch characters there's pretty much only rex and springman, like that's it as far as I see anyway, that list doesn't include the games released between 2012 to 2016 too

 

[Gumzilla]

I think it's obvious what D3's new Final should be!

 

[Rockaphin]

a Sticker Star and Color Splash-inspired Paper Mario.

Please refrain from making me cry about my most wanted character.

In all seriousness though, I do think Paper Mario and Captain Toad are very likely this time. Which, I think both would make great additions with what they could bring to the table.

 

[NintenRob]

Yes please to Buff Dedede Final Smash, he desperately needs something cool. His last two were so underwhelming and lame

 

[Gumzilla]

Yes please to Buff Dedede Final Smash, he desperately needs something cool. His last two were so underwhelming and lame

While I agree on the Sm4sh Final. You do not dis the BIG GAY DANCE!

 

[FlareHabanero]

The biggest question is this - why was a Pokemon X and Y newcomer given a different treatment to Robin (in light of Sakurai stating that had Awakening released 6 months later Robin would have been less likely)?

My guess it's because of the complicated copyright regarding to the Pokemon IP. It's divided by three factions (Nintendo, Game Freak, Creatures), all while being handled by The Pokemon Company. None of the other Nintendo franchises have a division like that, so treating the Pokemon series as a special case makes sense since there's likely more effort needed to negotiate possible content.

I speculate this is also why the Pokemon spin-offs like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and Pokemon Ranger are ignored in Super Smash Bros., and why Mewtwo was deemed "low priority" during Brawl's development.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

I dont understand why people think sakurai would go out of his way to meet with xc2 devs to get the design for rex and pyra, when X was already completed. Xenoblade is not at the level of pokemon, it doesn't warrant the need to do things like that.

I can see a case for arms MAYBE being made, because nintendo is pushing it as their 3rd pillar in terms of "esports games", and are definitely trying to push the brand similarly to splatoon.

But I dont really see it happening for rex/pyra. Maybe DLC down the line. Idk. Despite the fact that I'm currently binging the game, I have 0 desire to see them in smash. If they get in, they get in. I just don't think they're anywhere near as likely as the echo chamber would have you believe.

 

[ChikoLad]

I dont understand why people think sakurai would go out of his way to meet with xc2 devs to get the design for rex and pyra, when X was already completed. Xenoblade is not at the level of pokemon, it doesn't warrant the need to do things like that.

I can see a case for arms MAYBE being made, because nintendo is pushing it as their 3rd pillar in terms of "esports games", and are definitely trying to push the brand similarly to splatoon.

But I dont really see it happening for rex/pyra. Maybe DLC down the line. Idk. Despite the fact that I'm currently binging the game, I have 0 desire to see them in smash. If they get in, they get in. I just don't think they're anywhere near as likely as the echo chamber would have you believe.

Sakurai is a huge weeb and loves Xenoblade.

Don't underestimate what this man will do for a series he loves.

 

[Staarih]

And this is why I REALLY want characters from Switch games. That's not a very exciting list of games to choose from, and the only characters that seem somewhat plausible are a SuMo Pokémon and a Sticker Star and Color Splash-inspired Paper Mario.

In addition to the (few?) new Wii U and Switch era characters, I'm thinking (and hoping lol) they rely on the ballot results as well, at least to some degree... I mean, they went through the trouble to create it and we only get Bayonetta out of it? Fan favorites along with some "recent" characters is a good mix for newcomers for the next game, I feel.

I dont understand why people think sakurai would go out of his way to meet with xc2 devs to get the design for rex and pyra, when X was already completed. Xenoblade is not at the level of pokemon, it doesn't warrant the need to do things like that.

I mean, he probably discussed with Monolith Soft anyway in order to get some new character. Probably Elma, sure... but they could've been like "hey, we have a new game coming out, how about this?". No idea how the development has really gone down but I don't think it's impossible. I dunno, at this point I don't really care which XC character we get, but I'm betting on getting one.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Sakurai is a huge weeb and loves Xenoblade.

Don't underestimate what this man will do for a series he loves.

I don't really think that true. Robin was a natural inclusion, lucina got in cause alternate costume, roy got in cause he was a popular veteran, and corrin was because he was from a recent title and the development team wanted them.

 

[Pazzo.]

There's also a chance Rhythm Heaven can get a character, Megamix was released in Q2 2016.

Here's hoping. At least we have some evidence Sakurai was thinking about the franchise. I'd personally like a combo-character, but I'll take anything and be glad with it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS:

"Shulk will never get in because he's only appeared in one game and the game is a niche JRPG title."

Super Smash Bros. for Switch:

"Rex and Pyra will never get in because Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was released too late and Xenoblade Chronicles is a niche series that Sakurai doesn't care about."

I think history is going to repeat itself again...

 

[Chandeelure]

Yeah, sure, King Dedede will be purposely possessed by an evil force only to have muscles for his Final Smash.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

There's also a chance Rhythm Heaven can get a character, Megamix was released in Q2 2016.

Here's hoping. At least we have some evidence Sakurai was thinking about the franchise. I'd personally like a combo-character, but I'll take anything and be glad with it.

tbh I feel like people forget about some franchises, a rhythm heaven character could get it, wonder red could get in, chibi robo could get in, hell, henry fleming could get in. There's more options from the last generation than people like to think.

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't really think that true. Robin was a natural inclusion, lucina got in cause alternate costume, roy got in cause he was a popular veteran, and corrin was because he was from a recent title and the development team wanted them.

But he didn't say no, did he?

Regardless, you're thinking too hard. It was a joke.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS:

"Shulk will never get in because he's only appeared in one game and the game is a niche JRPG title."

Super Smash Bros. for Switch:

"Rex and Pyra will never get in because Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was released too late and Xenoblade Chronicles is a niche series that Sakurai doesn't care about."

I think history is going to repeat itself again...

Well, given that Sakurai stated that had Awakening been released 6 months later Robin would have been less likely, the release date of XC2 relative to when development of Smash Switch started is a significant disadvantage, though it doesn't kill their chances of being in Smash (especially given they can still make it in as DLC if not the base roster)

With Shulk, the arguments made against him are purely made on fan based assumptions with no actual backing.

 

[Deathcarter]

Keep in mind guys that Oddysey finished development before 2017 so there is still a good chance of us getting quiet a lot of content from that game.



If that is the case then I guess there is little chance of us getting Rex as a playable character in the base roster of Smash Switch especially since Xenoblade was still a very niche franchise back in 2016 and if 6 months later would have made Robin less likely, you have to wonder whether or not Sakurai would even be interested in a character from a game that wouldn't be released (assuming development started somewhere around February-March 2016) for another year and 9-10 months.

If he thinks Rex and Pyra have potential for an unique moveset no other character has, then I'm sure he won't care too much about them being niche. You gotta remember that Sakurai LOVES oddball gimmicks that involve two or more characters. Pokémon Trainer, Rosalina, and Ice Climbers are all the type of characters that usually don't get extended consideration but ended up being in Smash due to their major gimmick potential. Hell, Shulk is a type of character that Sakurai stated he usually wouldn't consider but ended up getting in so I don't know why being niche would by itself would disqualify Rex given that he's essentially Shulk's successor.

Sakurai has his rules and his biases but has consistently demonstrated a willingness to be flexible in terms of who he chooses to be newcomers. I see Rex/Prya and Springman as the type of characters that would quickly catch Sakurai's interest and who'd he be willing to bend the rules for.

 

[ChikoLad]

If he thinks Rex and Pyra have potential for an unique moveset no other character has, then I'm sure he won't care too much about them being niche. You gotta remember that Sakurai LOVES oddball gimmicks that involve two or more characters. Pokémon Trainer, Rosalina, and Ice Climbers are all the type of characters that usually don't get extended consideration but ended up being in Smash due to their major gimmick potential. Hell, Shulk is a type of character that Sakurai stated he usually wouldn't consider but ended up getting in so I don't know why being niche would by itself would disqualify Rex given that he's essentially Shulk's successor.

Sakurai has his rules and his biases but has consistently demonstrated a willingness to be flexible in terms of who he chooses to be newcomers. I see Rex/Prya and Springman as the type of characters that would quickly catch Sakurai's interest and would be willing to bend the rules for.

Pokémon Trainer was also chosen for practically being the audience surrogate of the franchise and Rosalina also had the fact she specifically represented Super Mario Galaxy, one of the most critically acclaimed games of all time, and she was a popular character in her own right.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

tbh I feel like people forget about some franchises, a rhythm heaven character could get it, wonder red could get in, chibi robo could get in, hell, henry fleming could get in. There's more options from the last generation than people like to think.

Captain Toad, Bandana Dee, Dixie, Isabelle, Paper Mario, Ashley and the Excitebiker are also all possible characters. That isn't even taking into account ballot choices (both Nintendo and third-party characters) or weird surprise and/or retro characters. Heck, we could even get an indie character.

 

[Esquelen]

I would like to have the villager's recovery jump removed to give it to Balloon Fighter character, he deserves to be a fighter.

 

[monadoboy]

Speculation kinda sucks without "pic of the day" or Brawl Dojo. I'm a bit scared we won't get something like that this time around, being so close to release date, plus Miiverse gone.

A Dojo announcement would be as hype as a character at this point.

 

[Deathcarter]

Pokémon Trainer was also chosen for practically being the audience surrogate of the franchise and Rosalina also had the fact she specifically represented Super Mario Galaxy, one of the most critically acclaimed games of all time, and she was a popular character in her own right.

Both Sakurai and the Pokemon Company clearly views the human trainers as being way less important than the Pokémon themselves in regards to Smash as Red would otherwise be a priority character for Melee and Smash 4 with or without a switching mechanic. Its obvious that Pokémon Trainer was there to justify the mechanic and not the other way around.

As far as Rosalina goes, she's the Super Mario Bros. equivalent to Midna, popular as hell but a secondary character of far less importance than the main characters in her franchise whom Sakurai would have trouble justifying to himself on popularity alone. Her crazy gimmick potential was the difference maker in her case since he's big on crazy unique movesets.

 

[Icedragonadam]

If Smash Bros is mentioned in the Onlice service plans soon, that should count as Smash news right?

 

[Troykv]

Both Sakurai and the Pokemon Company clearly views the human trainers as being way less important than the Pokémon themselves in regards to Smash as Red would otherwise be a priority character for Melee and Smash 4 with or without a switching mechanic. Its obvious that Pokémon Trainer was there to justify the mechanic and not the other way around..

Well, it makes sense, TPC doesn't have any profit from the existence of the Main Series Trainers... The Pokémon itself are the thing they care about.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well, given that Sakurai stated that had Awakening been released 6 months later Robin would have been less likely, the release date of XC2 relative to when development of Smash Switch started is a significant disadvantage, though it doesn't kill their chances of being in Smash (especially given they can still make it in as DLC if not the base roster)

I always thought that Robin comment was kind of off.

1. It's implied that Robin wasn't even the first choice for a Fire Emblem Awakening character, Chrom was but was quickly dismissed for not being unique enough.
2. He says "6 months later", but what context is he referring to? The Japanese release or the international release? Either way, that would still be released a year before Super Smash Bros. for 3DS at the minimum.
3. Even in this scenario, there's always the possibility of getting a preview of upcoming games for possible newcomers. He already did that with Roy and Greninja, heck the former's game wasn't even released yet at the time, yet magically he couldn't do the same thing in this hypothetical situation?

I get the impression he's not explaining the entire situation regarding to Robin. Heck I could say the same thing with a lot of characters because there's similar inconsistencies.

 

[osby]

Both Sakurai and the Pokemon Company clearly views the human trainers as being way less important than the Pokémon themselves in regards to Smash as Red would otherwise be a priority character for Melee and Smash 4 with or without a switching mechanic. Its obvious that Pokémon Trainer was there to justify the mechanic and not the other way around.

As far as Rosalina goes, she's the Super Mario Bros. equivalent to Midna, popular as hell but a secondary character of far less importance than the main characters in her franchise whom Sakurai would have trouble justifying to himself on popularity alone. Her crazy gimmick potential was the difference maker in her case since he's big on crazy unique movesets.

It might also because they don't want Pokemon trainers to punch and kick on their own to be honest. Pokemon Trainer was a team of four and since they couldn't bring all of them together, they just choose to bring one that was most popular: Charizard.

Rosalina is not Midna. She's still around, Nintendo clearly pushing her to be one of the main characters and her relationship with Lumas (=stars) makes her related to one of the most frequent symbols in the Mario.

 

[Cosmic77]

As far as Rosalina goes, she's the Super Mario Bros. equivalent to Midna, popular as hell but a secondary character of far less importance than the main characters in her franchise whom Sakurai would have trouble justifying to himself on popularity alone. Her crazy gimmick potential was the difference maker in her case since he's big on crazy unique movesets.

I see this a lot, so I just want to clarify that the closest in-game material Sakurai had that would've inspired him to make Rosalina and Luma a duo character was Luma floating alongside Rosalina in Mario Kart Wii. Aside from that, the two were never really seen as a pair like Ice Climbers or Rex and Pyra were, and it honestly would've made way more sense for Sakurai to just add solo Rosalina. It's kinda like having a character called "Peach and Toad".

If anything, the popularity of both SMG and Rosalina herself is what inspired Sakurai to add her, and he justified her inclusion by going out of his way to make her extremely unique by adding Luma.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I always thought that Robin comment was kind of off.

1. It's implied that Robin wasn't even the first choice for a Fire Emblem Awakening character, Chrom was but was quickly dismissed for not being unique enough.
2. He says "6 months later", but what context is he referring to? The Japanese release or the international release? Either way, that would still be released a year before Super Smash Bros. for 3DS at the minimum.
3. Even in this scenario, there's always the possibility of getting a preview of upcoming games for possible newcomers. He already did that with Roy and Greninja, heck the former's game wasn't even released yet at the time, yet magically he couldn't do the same thing in this hypothetical situation?

I get the impression he's not explaining the entire situation regarding to Robin. Heck I could say the same thing with a lot of characters because there's similar inconsistencies.

Given that he stated that Awakening was released a month after Uprising, I'm pretty sure that he was talking about Japanese release.

And in the case of Roy, he was a last-minute clone addition who was only considered because Sakurai had extra time and wanted some clones (interestingly, he actually thought that Roy's game was going to be released before Melee). Roy's inclusion was less to do with priority than convenience (he was very poorly designed from a gameplay perspective in Melee). His situation is really not comparable to Greninja who did get the red carpet treatment.

Regarding the third point, I think it's less to do about knowing and more to do with what he personally wants. There's no doubt in my mind that Sakurai does have awareness of upcoming games as shown by the MK8 stage in Wii U.

 

[ChikoLad]

Both Sakurai and the Pokemon Company clearly views the human trainers as being way less important than the Pokémon themselves in regards to Smash as Red would otherwise be a priority character for Melee and Smash 4 with or without a switching mechanic. Its obvious that Pokémon Trainer was there to justify the mechanic and not the other way around.

As far as Rosalina goes, she's the Super Mario Bros. equivalent to Midna, popular as hell but a secondary character of far less importance than the main characters in her franchise whom Sakurai would have trouble justifying to himself on popularity alone. Her crazy gimmick potential was the difference maker in her case since he's big on crazy unique movesets.

Rosalina's reveal trailer was the second most upvoted of Sakurai's Miiverse posts in Smash Wii U/3DS's pre-release period (only beaten by a group photo of Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man). She's become a regular mainstay in the series and the very reason she was made playable in 3D World was due to popularity (confirmed in an Iwata Asks interview). She's especially popular in Japan (the country with the most influence on the games), and could quite easily be argued as one of the most beloved Mario characters (which is different from the most popular Mario character but it goes without saying a beloved character would be popular to some degree).

Her popularity alone definitely justifies her.

It seems like you're just making assumptions based on personal anecdote and not based on any evidence or statistics. Similarly with Pokémon Trainer, there is no evidence stating that the character was just chosen for the mechanic. Pokémon Trainer was clearly inspired by Red. Red and Ash have an iconic appearance that a lot of people recognise.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

If he thinks Rex and Pyra have potential for an unique moveset no other character has, then I'm sure he won't care too much about them being niche. You gotta remember that Sakurai LOVES oddball gimmicks that involve two or more characters. Pokémon Trainer, Rosalina, and Ice Climbers are all the type of characters that usually don't get extended consideration but ended up being in Smash due to their major gimmick potential. Hell, Shulk is a type of character that Sakurai stated he usually wouldn't consider but ended up getting in so I don't know why being niche would by itself would disqualify Rex given that he's essentially Shulk's successor.

Sakurai has his rules and his biases but has consistently demonstrated a willingness to be flexible in terms of who he chooses to be newcomers. I see Rex/Prya and Springman as the type of characters that would quickly catch Sakurai's interest and who'd he be willing to bend the rules for.

Here's the thing. We know that now. It would have been impossible to know that when the project plan was being drafted. There's no reason to believe a pokemon scenario happened here.

I think them having unique mechanics bodes well for them in the future. Just not at this very moment.

 

[MrReyes96]

I really hope we do get representation from the Wii U 3DS era
From after the project for smash 4 was complete (2013) to when the smash 5 one started (2016)
Wonder Red, Captain Toad, 3D World content, Chibi-Robo, etc

 

[Blargg888]

Here's another question I've got:
What characters do you hope show up in Assist Trophies?

Understandably, people don't want characters that they support to be Assist Trophies, but what characters do you think would make for good Assists?

 

[Zerp]

Here's another question I've got:
What characters do you hope show up in Assist Trophies?

Understandably, people don't want characters that they support to be Assist Trophies, but what characters do you think would make for good Assists?

Not sure if I still have to use this but...

Spoiler: Kirby Star Allies spoilers

Hyness would be perfect for the role, he could use his "friendship" circle with the mages or use elemental attacks by himself if we need him to attack, although he could also just fill the screen with his insane ranting text and be a distraction like Resetti was in Brawl.

 

[DGAMER]

Here's another question I've got:
What characters do you hope show up in Assist Trophies?

Understandably, people don't want characters that they support to be Assist Trophies, but what characters do you think would make for good Assists?

Waluigi.

In all seriousness thou, I am happy with the current assist trophies. I would like to see some more third party assist trophies.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

But there is the fact that there's not much she can add that robin doesn't do

You're wrong. Kind of ironic that you describe that sentiment as a "fact" when facts are what you're so frequently unaware of.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Here's another question I've got:
What characters do you hope show up in Assist Trophies?

Understandably, people don't want characters that they support to be Assist Trophies, but what characters do you think would make for good Assists?

Mary O.; Terraforms the stage with various bits of Mario Maker platforms and obstacles.

Goombella: Does a similar thing to Palutena's Guidance talking about one of the fighters.

Rambi: Charges the entire stage like a bullet bill weapon, before turning and charging back.

Knuckles: Punches the ground causing a stun effect on any ground based fighters.

Peppy: Does a damn barrel roll across the stage

Anna: opens a chest and unleashes a heap of powerful items

Takumi: fires a barrage of moderately powerful arrows knocking the enemies into the air

Rick: Rolls and bounces across the screen in rock form knocking enemies over.

Medusa: ...turns opponents in immediete surrounding area into stone briefly preventing them from moving.

(I'd actually like a few of these as playable characters, but I feel they'd be more likely as assists)

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, here’s a game.

Sakurai is done with people complaining about over representation. He’s doing five new fire emblem, five new Pokémon, five new mario, five new Zelda, five New Kirby, three new f-zero, three new Kid Icarus. Got another franchise you want to over represent, add either 3 or 5 characters from them.

Aaaand name em

Late on this, but:
Fire Emblem: Lyn, Chrom, Azura, Takumi, Hector
Pokemon: Decidueye, Chandelure, Golisopod, Scizor, Krookodile
Mario: Waluigi, Fawful, Geno, King Boo, Toad
Zelda: Midna, Skull Kid, Ganon, Vaati, Ravio
Kirby: Bandana Dee, Susie, Marx, Gooey, Magolor
F-Zero: Pico, Black Shadow, Samurai Goroh
Kid Icarus: Hades, Viridi, Medusa
Donkey Kong: King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Funky Kong, Cranky Kong, Lanky Kong
Metroid: Ridley, Kraid, Dark Samus
Sonic: Tails, Knuckles, Eggman

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

You're wrong. If Smash characters had to fit your criteria, we wouldn't have Robin because you'd say he can't add anything that Link & Zelda don't do.

What? Link and Zelda aren't the same character lmao. Robin already fits the niche of a sword wielding magic user, Celica doesn't have much that makes her stand out as a unique fighter and makes her worth adding tbh. Especially when we really don't need more fe characters and sakurai is already aware of that.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Yeah, Detective Pikachu would really need to be his own character because of his whole shtick of being a detective (first and foremost) and then not able to use any moves (unlike a normal Pikachu). So being a clone wouldn't really work in my eyes.

Besides, wouldn't they just bring Pichu back out if a Pikachu-clone was really needed/wanted?

Is there a reason Pikachu can't have a detective hat as a palette swap just like his other hats?

 

[MrReyes96]

Detective Pikachu and Pikachu Libre should definitely just be outfits
No need for more Dr. Marios imo