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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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BinWeevil28

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Oh, I would not be suprised if we got no new DK character, but if there was only one, it would be K.Rool, because of his popularity. Dixie does not have that.

Oh, and there WILL be new clones in Smash Switch that is what I am certain of.
 
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MrReyes96

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Oh, I would not be suprised if we got no new DK character, but if there was only one, it would be K.Rool, because of his popularity. Dixie does not have that.

Oh, and there WILL be new clones in Smash Switch that is what I am certain of.
Dixie is plenty popular are more recognizable
They should both be in
 

BinWeevil28

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Looking at the bigger fan polls like Etika's one and that Latin poll I usually see that Dixie is not the first choice, or near the bottom. If this was reflected in the ballot then I don't think Dixie has done well. Also, she didn't get a Mii costume whilst K Rool did.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Just gonna perform a little necromancy and bring this idea back: Pokefloats 2. We have 7 entire generations now, with plenty of interesting designs for Pokemon that could be fun shapes to fight on in the regular form of the stage. Omega Form wouldn't be a problem as Avalugg is a perfect Final Destintation shape. We could fight on top of a Wailord, on the shoulders of a Golurk, on Komala's head and log, etc.
The default Pokemon models these days are all high in Polygon counts so they wouldn't have to do too much work unless they insist on making them look like parade balloons.
 

MrReyes96

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Looking at the bigger fan polls like Etika's one and that Latin poll I usually see that Dixie is not the first choice, or near the bottom. If this was reflected in the ballot then I don't think Dixie has done well. Also, she didn't get a Mii costume whilst K Rool did.
She stars in 2/3 of the original donkey Kong trilogy
She’s the protagonist of 3!
 

92MilesPrower

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Oh, I would not be suprised if we got no new DK character, but if there was only one, it would be K.Rool, because of his popularity. Dixie does not have that.

Oh, and there WILL be new clones in Smash Switch that is what I am certain of.
The thing is, it's not always a popularity contest with the characters. If anything, Dixie is more relevant to the current games than King K. Rool since she's actually appeared in Tropical Freeze after a bit of an absence from the series, while K. Rool never appeared in any of the newer DKC games. Dixie's relevance to the series as it is currently may rival K. Rool's popularity, and I think both have a fair chance of getting in.

Edit: Also, what evidence do you have that outright proves that there will definitely be clones in Smash 5? For all we know, all characters that were previously clones could've been Luigified, or something else. Just because we had 3 outright clones in Smash 4 doesn't mean that we're gonna have even more clones along with them.
 
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MasterOfKnees

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That we didn't get a DKC newcomer in Smash 4 was already a surprise to me, I don't even know what to say if we don't get one for this game. At the very least they should add Dixie, but I really don't think many would contest it if we got K. Rool in addition to her, it's easily the series for which it makes the most sense to give two newcomers, almost to the same level as with Kirby in Brawl.
 
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BinWeevil28

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The thing is, it's not always a popularity contest with the characters. If anything, Dixie is more relevant to the current games than King K. Rool since she's actually appeared in Tropical Freeze after a bit of an absence from the series, while K. Rool never appeared in any of the newer DKC games. Dixie's relevance to the series as it is currently may rival K. Rool's popularity, and I think both have a fair chance of getting in.
I don't know if it was enough though. Cranky was also in DKC Tropical Freeze and Funky made it to Mario Kart before Dixie. She was also not brought back for Smash 4 when she was planned for Brawl.
 
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D

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So would he actually be a fully original character if he gets chosen as DLC?
If by "fully original" you mean "literally doesn't borrow any sort of animation from DK", no. I'd imagine he'd take some animations/basic attacks that fit him since they have similar models.

But if you mean "is quite different from DK in terms of fighting style to the point he can't be considered a clone", then yes.

One thing that needs to be made clear about DK and Funky is that while they have similar models, DK is more "primal" and "brute force" in both how he presents himself and his fighting style while Funky wouldn't be.

DK's always (except in DK64) hunched over and walking on his knuckles, being completely naked except for his signature necktie. Solving every problem with his fists.

Funky is never like this. He's always more upright and more "civilized" in nature, wearing more than just a single article of clothing and putting his smarts to use in developing weaponry, machinery, vehicles, etc.
Brute force is simply not his forte, meaning DK's fighting style doesn't suit him in the least.
 
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Bowserlick

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I want K. Rool's trailer to show him in costume as another newcomer (Dixie Kong for example), before revealing the actual newcomer he is impersonating and him out of costume.
 
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BinWeevil28

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It is for a Donkey Kong Country character. Unless you're the two main characters.
Which is funny because we only have Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong in Smash. There is a large gap between Diddy and Dixie's popularity and relevance. For the Mario characters, the gap is not so big.
 

92MilesPrower

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I don't know if it was enough though. Cranky was also in DKC Tropical Freeze and Funky made it to Mario Kart before Dixie. She was also not brought back for Smash 4 when she was planned for Brawl.
Unlike Funky and Cranky, Dixie has been consistently a playable character in the DKC series, being playable in both DKC 2 and 3 (even being the main star of 3), making her basically the 3rd protagonist of the DK series. Cranky and Funky have been moreso side characters that assisted DK and co. on their adventures, but it was decided that they would be playable in Tropical Freeze probably because of how different their playstyles would be from the other 3 Kongs already in the game.

Edit:
Which is funny because we only have Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong in Smash. There is a large gap between Diddy and Dixie's popularity and relevance. For the Mario characters, the gap is not so big.
Large gap between their relevance? Dixie was the protagonist of the 3rd DKC game just like Diddy was the protagonist of DKC2. They're both just as relevant.
 
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TheLastJinjo

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Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if all we got for Donkey Kong was a late addition of Dixie Kong similar to Wolf.
 

BinWeevil28

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Large gap between their relevance? Dixie was the protagonist of the 3rd DKC game just like Diddy was the protagonist of DKC2. They're both just as relevant.
Diddy was in Returns and countless spinoff games while Dixie was absent from them. He is even coming back to Mario Tennis and made his debut in Mario Party: Star Rush. He also has a lot more merchandise than Dixie.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Unlike Funky and Cranky, Dixie has been consistently a playable character in the DKC series, being playable in both DKC 2 and 3 (even being the main star of 3), making her basically the 3rd protagonist of the DK series. Cranky and Funky have been moreso side characters that assisted DK and co. on their adventures, but it was decided that they would be playable in Tropical Freeze probably because of how different their playstyles would be from the other 3 Kongs already in the game.
You also have to take into consideration that was 22 years ago. Unless you're a retro character, it's kind of important that you've actually had significant roles or games in the recent era.

Dixie and King K. Rool's SNES outings don't matter any more now than they did in Brawl or Smash 4. What's changed, however, is that Dixie starred in Tropical Freeze. However, Cranky did as well, and I think he has an up on Dixie given he'd be a fully unique character and he's been in every DKC game ever with a strong presence. He may not have been playable until now, but his role has largely been more prominent and consistent. He's sort of the Palutena of Donkey Kong.

Personally, I'm not confident that Cranky or Dixie bring enough to make a character that really stands out, so I wouldn't be surprised if this game sticks with DK & Diddy, with Dixie as a late addition similar to Wolf.
 

92MilesPrower

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Diddy was in Returns and countless spinoff games while Dixie was absent from them. He is even coming back to Mario Tennis and made his debut in Mario Party: Star Rush. He also has a lot more merchandise than Dixie.
Spinoffs such as Mario Kart don't have anything to do with their relevance to the main DKC series nor really Smash Bros. either. Heck, if King K. Rool is so popular anyways, why hasn't HE appeared in any of those spinoffs either? Why hasn't he even appeared in any main DKC games as of late anyways? The last time we saw him make an actual appearance aside from a Smash Bros. trophy was Super Mario Sluggers of all things.
 

Cosmic77

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I'm not sure how I feel about the chances of a DK newcomer. The timing of all this is just terrible.


First, we have the Wii U Tropical Freeze, which came out in early 2014. It was way too late to receive a character in Smash 4, and the most it got recognized with was a few trophies.

Then the development of Smash Switch began in 2016. At the time, Tropical Freeze was almost non-existent. It became a highly forgettable Wii U game, and both Nintendo and its fans rarely acknowledged it. Needless to say, I don't think DK was at the top of Sakurai's head when he considered newcomers for this game.

Finally, we have the Tropical Freeze port, which just like its predecessor, had awful timing for Smash. Once again, it looks like this game came out way too late for it to receive a character in Smash.


I'm not saying it's impossible, because unexpected things do happen from time to time. However, based on these patterns, I'm not holding my breath for a DK newcomer. I hope I end up being wrong though.
 

BluePikmin11

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If by "fully original" you mean "literally doesn't borrow any sort of animation from DK", no. I'd imagine he'd take some animations/basic attacks that fit him since they have similar models.

But if you mean "is quite different from DK in terms of fighting style to the point he can't be considered a clone", then yes.

One thing that needs to be made clear about DK and Funky is that while they have similar models, DK is more "primal" and "brute force" in both how he presents himself and his fighting style while Funky wouldn't be.

DK's always (except in DK64) hunched over and walking on his knuckles, being completely naked except for his signature necktie. Solving every problem with his fists.

Funky is never like this. He's always more upright and more "civilized" in nature, wearing more than just a single article of clothing and putting his smarts to use in developing weaponry, machinery, vehicles, etc.
Brute force is simply not his forte, meaning DK's fighting style doesn't suit him in the least.
I see, but there is a part of your Funky Kong thoughts that I am curious about. You essentially say Funky would be a semi-clone, but in general, why do you think there will newcomer clones as DLC? Technically, we got semi-clones like Roy and Lucas, but it is hard for me to imagine a situation where newcomer clones get added that are not fan-favorite veterans as DLC. Mostly because of the circumstances of how Smash 4 DLC was developed with a smaller team. It might end up like that again when Smash Switch comes. You think very far ahead in the future, and I must know those reasons. :cyclops:
 

TheLastJinjo

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Spinoffs such as Mario Kart don't have anything to do with their relevance to the main DKC series nor really Smash Bros. either.
Yes they do. Who told you that spin off games don't matter? It doesn't matter if it wasn't a DKC game, what matters is that it was a popular game and Diddy Kong was in it. It doesn't not count because it wasn't the game he originated from.
 

Bowserlick

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King K. Rool is still largely requested and would be a money draw.

Dixie Kong has her fans and would be relatively easy to create compared to other newcomers.
 
D

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I see, but there is a part of your Funky Kong thoughts that I am curious about. You essentially say Funky would be a semi-clone, but in general, why do you think there will newcomer clones as DLC? Technically, we got semi-clones like Roy and Lucas, but it is hard for me to imagine a situation where newcomer clones get added that are not fan-favorite veterans as DLC. Mostly because of the circumstances of how Smash 4 DLC was developed with a smaller team. It might end up like that again when Smash Switch comes. You think very far ahead in the future, and I must know those reasons. :cyclops:
.....read what I said again.
I never said Funky would be a semi-clone.

I only said he would likely share some animations/basic attacks with DK where they would fit Funky due to their models.
Or is Corrin a clone of Marth?
 
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92MilesPrower

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Yes they do. Who told you that spin off games don't matter? It doesn't matter if it wasn't a DKC game, what matters is that it was a popular game and Diddy Kong was in it. It doesn't not count because it wasn't the game he originated from.
I meant that, for example, just because Funky Kong appeared in Mario Kart Wii instead of King K. Rool or Dixie Kong doesn't mean that he's a much more relevant character than the main villain or third protagonist of the DKC series. It's just a side game that really shouldn't be taken so seriously, Funky will still mostly be a supporting character in the DKC games aside from him being playable in Tropical Freeze (and maybe other future titles, but we don't know for sure about that).
 

BluePikmin11

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Well, I completely do not understand. I get your explanation on the differentiation of Funky and DK, but what is Funky classified as then and what circumstances would lead to Funky being chosen by Sakurai as DLC specifically? The latter is what I wanna know.

:urg:
 
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Pazzo.

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Dixie + K. Rool would be a lot of fun, even Funky + K. Rool would be great.

King K. Rool is still largely requested and would be a money draw.

Dixie Kong has her fans and would be relatively easy to create compared to other newcomers.
Ridley and K. Rool are now DLC. Clever clever.
 

Roberk

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I have minimal experience with the DK games, only playing DKC Returns. I get that K. Rool and Dixie might have more significance to the franchise, but that was decades ago. I'd much rather see Funky Kong for his entertaining personality/character or Cranky Kong to cheese opponents as an old ape. Dixie looks like she'd be too similar to Diddy and I didn't like that moveset in the first place, I don't want a clone of it. Her hair could be used in a unique way but it still feels to close to Diddy. I've never heard of K. Rool until I got into the Smash community and even now I still have no appeal towards him. He feels like a meme within a fandom to me and not everyone who will buy Smash this year will be a hardcore Smash fan who goes within communities to advocate who hasn't had any appearances for almost two decades now.

Personally, I don't really want Dixie. I can see her being added and she has the relevance but I just don't care. Objectively, I don't want K. Rool. He just doesn't make sense in the current year on a console that has drawn massive casual crowds who have never heard of him.
 

MasterOfKnees

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I'm not sure how I feel about the chances of a DK newcomer. The timing of all this is just terrible.


First, we have the Wii U Tropical Freeze, which came out in early 2014. It was way too late to receive a character in Smash 4, and the most it got recognized with was a few trophies.

Then the development of Smash Switch began in 2016. At the time, Tropical Freeze was almost non-existent. It became a highly forgettable Wii U game, and both Nintendo and its fans rarely acknowledged it. Needless to say, I don't think DK was at the top of Sakurai's head when he considered newcomers for this game.

Finally, we have the Tropical Freeze port, which just like its predecessor, had awful timing for Smash. Once again, it looks like this game came out way too late for it to receive a character in Smash.


I'm not saying it's impossible, because unexpected things do happen from time to time. However, based on these patterns, I'm not holding my breath for a DK newcomer. I hope I end up being wrong though.
I don't feel like DKC is as timing dependant as series like Pokémon, Fire Emblem or Xenoblade, heck probably not even as much as Zelda, Star Fox or Metroid as the timing of their games will at least influence their designs. DKC's core cast almost always consists of at least DK, Diddy and Dixie, and they always look the same aswell, the only major difference is how many hairs you can count on them, so as far as Dixie is concerned TF's release is more like an excuse to finally add her rather than the reason to do so (like with the flavor of the generation franchises). It's also worth remembering that when we got Diddy in Brawl he had disappeared from the series for a while, so there's a precedent that exceptions can be made, although Dixie obviously doesn't hold the same star power as him.

As far as K. Rool is concerned it obviously doesn't matter at all since he's not even in TF, his situation is the same as it was for Smash 4, except less competition and maybe the demand for him has been made more clear.
 
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D

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I meant that, for example, just because Funky Kong appeared in Mario Kart Wii instead of King K. Rool or Dixie Kong doesn't mean that he's a much more relevant character than the main villain or third protagonist of the DKC series. It's just a side game that really shouldn't be taken so seriously, Funky will still mostly be a supporting character in the DKC games aside from him being playable in Tropical Freeze (and maybe other future titles, but we don't know for sure about that).
A supporting character that literally was the reason why the Kongs are even able to defeat K. Rool for 2, 3, and 64.
His importance to the series shouldn't be underselled.

As for Mario Kart Wii, his appearance in that shouldn't be underselled either, considering it's the 6th highest selling game of all time, and the 3rd highest for Nintendo specifically.
At lot more people are going to know who he is in comparison to most DK characters, strange as it may be. Especially since he is infamous in the context of that game due to how good he is on the Flame Runner.
 
D

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I love Dixie but y'all dudes aren't giving Funky Kong enough credit. Everyone likes to hate on clones or complain that we have too many sword characters, but when presented with a surfboard fighter they think he'd be a clone? Funky Kong would have a completely original and unique moveset the likes we've never seen before, complete with surfboard flips and tricks for normals with DKC references and Flame Runner wheelies thrown in as specials. He'd style all over the place in his moveset and animations, doing stuff like performing handstands on his surfboard and walking around while casually carrying his radical weapon of choice to go catch some waves. It fits his funky personality to a tee, unlike making him a brutish ape like DK.

Funky Kong for Smash!
 
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FlareHabanero

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What if Donkey Kong suddenly gets an influx of content and then people started to complain it's "over represented". That would be extremely ironic.

Something I would totally be down for honestly.
 

TumblrFamous

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What if Donkey Kong suddenly gets an influx of content and then people started to complain it's "over represented". That would be extremely ironic.

Something I would totally be down for honestly.
I feel people wouldn't complain since DK is one of Nintendo's longest-running and well-known series in comparison to Kid Icarus or Fire Emblem. Though I feel people might get bent out of shape because of "more Mario".
 

Cosmic77

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I don't feel like DKC is as timing dependant as series like Pokémon, Fire Emblem or Xenoblade, heck probably not even as much as Zelda, Star Fox or Metroid as the timing of their games will at least influence their designs. DKC's core cast almost always consists of at least DK, Diddy and Dixie, and they always look the same aswell, the only major difference is how many hairs you can count on them, so as far as Dixie is concerned TF's release is more like an excuse to finally add her rather than the reason to do so (like with the flavor of the generation franchises). It's also worth remembering that when we got Diddy in Brawl he had disappeared from the series for a while, so there's a precedent that exceptions can be made, although Dixie obviously doesn't hold the same star power as him.

As far as K. Rool is concerned it obviously doesn't matter at all since he's not even in TF, his situation is the same as it was for Smash 4, except less competition and maybe the demand for him has been made more clear.
If Dixie or K. Rool were in Donkey Kong Country Returns, I guarantee you one of the two might have made it in Smash 4.

When it comes to iconic and more recurring characters like Wario, Diddy Kong, and Bowser Jr., timing isn't much of an issue. These guys had been making plenty of frequent appearances in modern spin-offs when they were chosen for Smash; waiting for a popular game that put a heavy focus on said characters (new WarioWare game, new DK game, etc.) wasn't really a problem for Sakurai.

Dixie, Funky, and K. Rool however, don't have this luxury. In addition to the DK series not being very active to begin with, these three have failed to keep up with their consistent, spin-off appearances. Because of this, people (particularily younger fans) aren't as familiar with them as they are with more modern characters who continue to randomly pop up in new games. In this case, waiting for a relevant game that specifically features these guys might actually be something Sakurai is waiting for.

Relevancy doesn't always decide who does and doesn't make the cut, but after seeing how the roster was decided in Smash 4, I definitely think timing is something we need to put some serious consideration into. Until we see Funky in Mario Kart 9 and Dixie in a Mario Hoops 3-on-3 sequel, I'll be riding on tropical Freeze entirely for their chances of getting in Smash Switch.
 
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I am gonna derail a tiny bit. But I just made an Unpopular Opinions thread! Please check it out and get it bumping :) I remember how popular a thread like this was in the Smash 4 speculation time.
oh these never go well.

90% of posts in these threads wind up being people trying to be edgy and insulting other users/fanbases but just "masking them as unpopular opinions" :/
:061:
 

TumblrFamous

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oh these never go well.

90% of posts in these threads wind up being people trying to be edgy and insulting other users/fanbases but just "masking them as unpopular opinions" :/
:061:
I'm gonna keep a watchful eye over it. Hopefully people aren't too rude, it seems tame so far :)

We'll be getting a DK newcomer for sure. I think Funky could be possible, but Dixie and K. Rool are more likely, but it's all a gamble. If we don't get another DK newcomer, I'd be shocked.
 

FlareHabanero

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I feel people wouldn't complain since DK is one of Nintendo's longest-running and well-known series in comparison to Kid Icarus or Fire Emblem. Though I feel people might get bent out of shape because of "more Mario".
Which kind of highlights the point that no matter what happens, there's going to be some type of criticism. Some are more justified than others, like the really poor timing of Corrin alone is worthy of a rant, but I feel like most of the time it's just nitpicking.

Like in the case of Donkey Kong content. Out of the sub-Mario franchises, it's arguably the most independent, so much so that often it's treated as an independent franchise. But to some people it's still related to Mario, which might bother people that are into more niche franchises getting attention instead. In the end of the day, if having more Donkey Kong content will make more people happy than mad, then go for it.
 
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