Smash UK Discussion Thread - Check first post for tournaments, facebook info and videos!

[Fuzzyness]

ice wasnt really playing the matchup right from experience

and I play that matchup a lot harsher than HBK imo lol, so dont judge it on me alcyonite

sheik needs to d tilt/dash attack under marths f airs but ice wasnt doing that, then keep him at a certain angle where he cant do anything back

that marth was throwing out f airs unsafely and got away with it cause ice didnt know

 

[gm jack]

What fuzz said.

Also, I think his edge guarding could have been a bit more aggressive, and Ice could have camped more, as Marth can't approach sheik at all. Both can combo the hell out of each other, through tilts, juggles etc, and both have great defensive games, but I think sheik has a slight advantage as she can dictate who approaches, and when.

The dthrow is still ok against marth in PAL, giving either a tilt, dash attack or tech chase at lower percents, when cc is most dangerous to sheik.

 

[AlcyoNite]

I definitely saw flaws in ice's game, but i wondered if the games were only close because of the d throw

i disagree that marth cant approach sheik. granted, its very difficult to use perfect spacing and box out sheik's movement options, but marth's d tilt, dash attack, and delayed fair are all viable way of closing space between the two.

also, i found it difficult to tech chase marth in pal maybe i just suck, but his tech roll is so damn long; u have to hard call the tech and that only really gets you another grab on most occasions

 

[gm jack]

I tend to be able to do it on reaction when I'm playing decently. Just a matter of practice. He's so floaty that when you see the DI away for the tech, you have ages to get to the landing area to get ready to follow that they do.

 

[VA]

Actually I don't think this is very easy at all (depending on the space behind marth). To get a legitimate tech chase on the full DI away + tech away you need to read.

 

[Fuzzyness]

well around like 30% or something you can dash attack from d throw anyway, its really damn hard tho

 

[VA]

Pretty sure this doesn't work. It definitely never works on Peach unless she doesn't know how to DI anyway.

 

[Fuzzyness]

maybe frostbyte had bad DI lol

 

[gm jack]

Actually I don't think this is very easy at all (depending on the space behind marth). To get a legitimate tech chase on the full DI away + tech away you need to read.

Is that including boost grabbing? It might just be the marths I play aren't great at getting out of it.

 

[Jolteon]

Tacking on damage vs Marth in PAL isn't that different I think, if you put Marth in a bad position it just leaves him with a bunch of **** options so they're bound to make mistakes. The main difference comes from the fact that you can't directly challenge his shield with a grab which means you lose guaranteed KOs+damage if Marth is shielding in a situation where you would have gotten a free grab in NTSC (e.g. baiting him with aerial -> dd grab, aerial -> grab or doing tomahawk grabs), but I don't think Marth's shield options are impressive so in the end I don't think PAL would have made a big difference.

Similar vs peach where you lose the easiest response to shielding, except losing a guaranteed dthrow -> stock vs her is worse than losing dthrow -> damage because she's much harder to edgeguard than Marth and also her shield options are much better than Marth's.

I don't think needles force approaches Jack, they aren't really hard to get around, it's more that a smart Sheik can just use her needles to limit Marth's options and act accordingly. Also I think Marth can approach, but I guess that depends on your definition of an approach.

 

[gm jack]

I know they aren't great, but it is better at shutting down marth's dash dance than anything marth can do back to sheik.

 

[Jolteon]

Yes, that's what limiting options tends to do lol, but it doesn't force them to approach.

 

[VA]

My input:

There are 3 DIs Marth can utilise once hit by Sheik's PAL Dthrow

Bad But Situational (Up Towards, Towards, None)
Straight Up Bad (Away or Up Away)
The Good Kind (Down Away)

BBS is for teching onto platforms or baiting the Sheik to ftilt you at mid %s and DIing out of the follow up (ftilt > fair can be DId out of I'm pretty sure).

SUP is just bad and I believe this is what players who get hit by Dthrow > Dash Attack will be doing if they've got hit.

TGK will guarantee you a tech and give you the most distance away from sheik therefore making the away tech + this DI the most difficult for her to follow up (given space behind you).

NTSC Dthrow = Free damage + KOs
PAL Dthrow = Effective pressure and control given strong strong stage contr

I think Ice wasn't effectively putting pressure on HBK from his grabs which is a huge part of Sheik in PAL. He failed a lot of edge guard opportunities which came from throws and in this contributed to a general lack of good pressure from his Sheik in this set.

 

[gm jack]

Should I rephrase it to approach or surrender good positioning?

 

[Jolteon]

My input:

There are 3 DIs Marth can utilise once hit by Sheik's PAL Dthrow

Bad But Situational (Up Towards, Towards, None)
Straight Up Bad (Away or Up Away)
The Good Kind (Down Away)

BBS is for teching onto platforms or baiting the Sheik to ftilt you at mid %s and DIing out of the follow up (ftilt > fair can be DId out of I'm pretty sure).

SUP is just bad and I believe this is what players who get hit by Dthrow > Dash Attack will be doing if they've got hit.

TGK will guarantee you a tech and give you the most distance away from sheik therefore making the away tech + this DI the most difficult for her to follow up (given space behind you).

NTSC Dthrow = Free damage + KOs
PAL Dthrow = Effective pressure and control given strong strong stage contr

I think Ice wasn't effectively putting pressure on HBK from his grabs which is a huge part of Sheik in PAL. He failed a lot of edge guard opportunities which came from throws and in this contributed to a general lack of good pressure from his Sheik in this set.

I remember kk said he thinks DI'ing dthrow as Marth to get onto platforms is a really bad idea because it lets you get bigger/better punishes due to the small area of a platform, and that's with NTSC grab.

I agree with di+tech away being the hardest option to cover, thankfully they have to (generally) give up a lot of stage control when choosing this option so it's still a good outcome.

Should I rephrase it to approach or surrender good positioning?

I just don't like it when people say that projectiles "force approaches" because it's not really true.

 

[VA]

I remember kk said he thinks DI'ing dthrow as Marth to get onto platforms is a really bad idea because it lets you get bigger/better punishes due to the small area of a platform, and that's with NTSC grab.

I agree with di+tech away being the hardest option to cover, thankfully they have to (generally) give up a lot of stage control when choosing this option so it's still a good outcome.

That's why I said it was Bad But Situational.

 

[Jolteon]

That's why I said it was Bad But Situational.

yeah I did see that but I really can't see in what situation it would be useful to land on a platform. Unless you mean they make a mistake due to lack of knowledge? Similar to slight DI away being crap but it's good if they don't know how to counter it.

 

[VA]

yeah I did see that but I really can't see in what situation it would be useful to land on a platform. Unless you mean they make a mistake due to lack of knowledge? Similar to slight DI away being crap but it's good if they don't know how to counter it.

to get over her head, make her have to move more instead of going off the stage etc etc. There are times where I would rather go on the platform and test my opponents reactions and hopefully get the my shield up and get knocked off the platform for a free aerial before she hits.

 

[AlcyoNite]

in ntsc, u might want to tech the platform if it means not dying to slap

i also came to the conclusion during my stay that i like pal d throw better in the spacie matchups because you can often force fox and falco into a bad postion near the edge or send them at an awkward angle off the stage. I guess a similar concept would apply to marth, in that he wont want to be near the edge vs sheik's bair

moreover, i agree wth most of what u said, jolteon, but im not so sure that grab is only for punishing shields. I think the fear of the grab puts marths/peaches on tilt much more in ntsc both because of the damage output and KO potential that a grab can offer. I think the idea that "if he gets a grab, i will take 20-35%ish percent" or "if he gets a grab, I am going to die" makes many of them play much safer
edit:I just realized, this may be exactly what you meant

 

[Jolteon]

to get over her head, make her have to move more instead of going off the stage etc etc. There are times where I would rather go on the platform and test my opponents reactions and hopefully get the my shield up and get knocked off the platform for a free aerial before she hits.

i guess so if they don't know what to do lol.

in ntsc, u might want to tech the platform if it means not dying to slap

i also came to the conclusion during my stay that i like pal d throw better in the spacie matchups because you can often force fox and falco into a bad postion near the edge or send them at an awkward angle off the stage. I guess a similar concept would apply to marth, in that he wont want to be near the edge vs sheik's bair

moreover, i agree wth most of what u said, jolteon, but im not so sure that grab is only for punishing shields. I think the fear of the grab puts marths/peaches on tilt much more in ntsc both because of the damage output and KO potential that a grab can offer. I think the idea that "if he gets a grab, i will take 20-35%ish percent" or "if he gets a grab, I am going to die" makes many of them play much safer
edit:I just realized, this may be exactly what you meant

Yeah true at high %s I could see going on the platform being useful. It's kind of interesting that you prefer pal dthrow for spacies, don't think I've played enough ntsc to comment about it but so far I think I prefer ntsc's for those match-ups.

I just meant that grab's the easiest way to punish a shield, it does have other uses. you're right when you say that grabs are a good way of conditioning marth/peach in ntsc, that's what I was trying to get across but looking back I didn't really mention anything about the reward of NTSC grabs making them shield less lol.

 

[VA]

Ok so I'm on 60% (that's roughly when you can tech on platform from BBS DI) and you have thrown me on the right side of PS under a platform. It's close enough for me to DI onto the platform but also a distance from the edge that makes the good DI not so good because I will go off stage or be forced onto the ledge. I can either DI down away and go off the stage or do BBS DI tech back into the stage and on the platform. Sometimes I'd rather do that so I don't lose so much position.

It's when you're confronted by a bad situation to do the right DI that teching on the platform isn't so bad. I don't think it's great when you're on KO % though.

Also you can't just do 1 DI everytime because that makes you easy to read (unless you're peach and you can fly out of Dthrow), gotta mix it up sometimes. I would sometimes do it around 30-40% and DI the inevitable ftilt unless it's against Theo who just regrabbed me everytime.

 

[-Legit-]

first offline in 2 years 0-0 good **** everyone who played me i thought i did well considering the rust shout outs to hoe4u shay lesyd flame monkey kong J PD ect good games

 

[Jolteon]

I feel that this thread can serve its purpose again.

Let us talk about regular Smash events:

Alpha Dash has offered up his place on Tuesday. If he confirms, I shall be attending. Following this, I can host on Saturday. Please post if you are interested.

I have plans to start up a regular event similar to the old London monthlies. Would people prefer weeklies or bi-weeklies?

Outside of London:

Having out of region tournaments again would be great for developing the scene in the rest of the country. PLEASE show your support for VA's event in Brighton on March 2nd (RU WI NA??) and attend.

Regarding the Croydon lot: Sorry for putting you guys on blast, but there are a lot of you and I rarely see you guys travel too far in and out of London. We are blessed with a great transport system and it's relatively inexpensive/easy to get anywhere in London. Supporting events all over (this includes larger fests/tournaments outside of London) is important, and the sheer number of you would really go a long way into helping with that.

It would be fantastic if we could have regular attendance at fests/weeklies again. This scene could be so much more than a periodic national and 3-4 person smashfests.

 

[L-J]

I agree about the scene needing more regular events with bigger attendances to get it going again. I have a broken thumb currently so won't be playing for a little while, but I'd vote for bi-weeklies over weeklies Alex because I think they'd get better attendance and people would care more about each one.

 

[VA]

sign ups open today for RU WI NA?? see facebook for details.

 

[Jolteon]

I agree about the scene needing more regular events with bigger attendances to get it going again. I have a broken thumb currently so won't be playing for a little while, but I'd vote for bi-weeklies over weeklies Alex because I think they'd get better attendance and people would care more about each one.

Valid point. I was thinking the same thing, but I also see a lot of other scenes that thrive with weeklies. For our scene in particular though I think bi-weeklies would work better... and we'll see down the line if things change in that regard.

Get well soon!

sign ups open today for RU WI NA?? see facebook for details.

I can't see a place for sign-ups.

 

[Heartstring]

>Comes back to smashboards
>See's a layout akin to Shoryuken.com forums
I DO NOT LIKE THIS LAYOUT, WHY U DO DIS!

But yeah, We should start using this again. It's going to be a good way to find new members. I was originally going to host a brawl tournament in Cambridge, however after the catastrophe that was LAC6, I'm really not feeling it at the moment. plus there are too many bigger events happening for many londoners to travel to it

 

[Jolteon]

Hehe. I like it. :B

We have a few nationals lined up anyway, it should be ok for now.

 

[Heartstring]

Indeed. Still, me and shay plan on doing a weekend-long smashfest at our collective places soon. (brawl obviously) so that will be cool. probably like 8 people max

 

[sinth]

It feels so much more productive to post here rather than the SmashUK Facebook... people might actually know who half of us are this way too. The lurkers, at least.

 

[Jolteon]

Indeed. Still, me and shay plan on doing a weekend-long smashfest at our collective places soon. (brawl obviously) so that will be cool. probably like 8 people max

Sweet. Would be cool if a fest like this happened for Melee as well. You should post up details on here later.

It feels so much more productive to post here rather than the SmashUK Facebook... people might actually know who half of us are this way too. The lurkers, at least.

Yeah, we used to get a lot of new people who would view the boards and know where we were, we don't get that so much on fb. Plus it's a lot easier to talk about events and organise things on here. ;>

edit: Also I have noticed that a lot of events get unnoticed on facebook, on here it's a lot easier to see new events.

 

[Yeniths]

I'm hoping the boards get going properly again, redesign is nice.

 

[Jolteon]

Yeah, I like it. I'm using the Generations Ruby skin atm which is nice.

btw, I'm going to Alpha Dash's today (leaving in 10 mins), gonna be streaming hopefully! If anyone wants to play this week (not on Wed/Friday) then I would be interested in coming, or if people want I can host instead.

 

[Smudge]

I'm hoping the boards get going properly again, redesign is nice.

Agreed, feels like ages since I was last on here, you're Tweet reminded me. It had been that long I needed my password resetting.

Really getting the itch to play Brawl again, plus we have a decent venue in Congleton now, there still any players in the NorthWest left?

 

[Heartstring]

Sweet. Would be cool if a fest like this happened for Melee as well. You should post up details on here later.

Also I have noticed that a lot of events get unnoticed on facebook, on here it's a lot easier to see new events.

Once a fest gets confirmed, I'll post details for sure.

That is true. I'm still unsure why smashboards died, the facebook group was just meant to be another way of collecting new players. Lets make sure it doesnt die here again.

And LOL at yentiths sig, good times. good times.

 

[sinth]

Speaking of streams I just got my mixer and microphones in the post so Brawl will have 2 commentators and nice volume levels in the future from now on whenever we stream.

 

[Jolteon]

Agreed, feels like ages since I was last on here, you're Tweet reminded me. It had been that long I needed my password resetting.

Really getting the itch to play Brawl again, plus we have a decent venue in Congleton now, there still any players in the NorthWest left?

Might be a good idea to contact Calzorz, he just said he wants to start playing again and I figure that means you can get Anaky and a few others playing too.

Thanks for tweeting George! =D

Once a fest gets confirmed, I'll post details for sure.

That is true. I'm still unsure why smashboards died, the facebook group was just meant to be another way of collecting new players. Lets make sure it doesnt die here again.

And LOL at yentiths sig, good times. good times.

Yeah, it just got kinda out of hand haha, and a lot of people liked the idea at the time so Smashboards got neglected. ;_;

lol poor kmac. xD

Speaking of streams I just got my mixer and microphones in the post so Brawl will have 2 commentators and nice volume levels in the future from now on whenever we stream.

Awesome. I think the Brawl community could really benefit from a dedicated stream!

 

[Fuzzyness]

is the opening post ok guys?

 

[sinth]

Looks a lot better now

but add

Brawl Twitch http://www.twitch.tv/smashbrawluk
Brawl YouTube http://www.youtube.com/smashbrawluk

 

[Heartstring]

is the opening post ok guys?

It's good, Just do what Sinth suggested, except it might be worth your time to put all of our streams/channels with pointers to say what happens on those channes

e.g:
http://www.twitch.tv/smashbrawluk (Brawl) (Tournaments)
http://twitch.tv/jolte0n (Melee, Project:M) (Fests)
and so on