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Smash UK Discussion Thread - Check first post for tournaments, facebook info and videos!

VA

VA

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Out of curiosity, what exactly is so great about peach edgeguards/punish on fox.

She can CG him on one stage.

She dies on under 100% from fox usmash on so many stages....which can be combod into from loads of stuff.
 
Professor Pro

Professor Pro

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vanityangel said:
Out of curiosity, what exactly is so great about peach edgeguards/punish on fox.

She can CG him on one stage.

She dies on under 100% from fox usmash on so many stages....which can be combod into from loads of stuff.
Click to expand...
She has easy combos on fast fallers which rack high percent VERY quickly in a simple few hits, D-Smash, U-throw on to platforms which you can cover many options with....


Yes Fox can kill her at below 100% but it's not that easy, and it's very hard for the fox to play THAT consistently for the matchup to be ridiculously in Fox's favour.

I'm pretty sure if I went Peach against your fox it would get ***** (I think it actually has in the past) and you try to play perfectly and camp perfectly as theoritically you're meant to to make it in foxes favour and see how much of that theory pays off in practical....

Deal???
£5MM?
 
Heartstring

Heartstring

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Professor Pro said:
She has easy combos on fast fallers which rack high percent VERY quickly in a simple few hits, D-Smash, U-throw on to platforms which you can cover many options with....


Yes Fox can kill her at below 100% but it's not that easy, and it's very hard for the fox to play THAT consistently for the matchup to be ridiculously in Fox's favour.

I'm pretty sure if I went Peach against your fox it would get ***** (I think it actually has in the past) and you try to play perfectly and camp perfectly as theoritically you're meant to to make it in foxes favour and see how much of that theory pays off in practical....

Deal???
£5MM?
Click to expand...
by definition, a matchup is when two players of each respective character is playing said character at the pinnacle of their metagame and then the MU is the percentage chance of one character winning against another
i dont think your peach nor VA's fox is at the top of taht characters metagame, therefore trying to use that as a theorum is invalid
...unless youre just after a quick 5 dollars in which case its all good ^.^
 
Professor Pro

Professor Pro

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None of us are at the top of the metagame with our mains either though, so to declare that it is only representive when a character is at the top of their metagame means that basically matchups in general are irrelevant to the general community when that is not the case.

Both of us are at a good enough level where if we switched Mains (characters we actually both use to main) we could play the foundation of the matchup and see how it plays out....cos im basically saying that it's riducolously hard for Fox to play that perfect/consistent for it to become a counter for Peach so im proving it by asking for a MM.
 
VA

VA

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I've never even tried with my fox against your peach...plus yeah it proves absolutely nothing.

Dsmash/uthrow are good punishes? That says to me you don't really have much of an idea about the match up. In fact I noticed quite how **** your peach is when I've played it before.

I'd do a £5 MM anytime. The only recorded video of that match shows me sandbagging and winning.
 
Professor Pro

Professor Pro

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vanityangel said:
I've never even tried with my fox against your peach...plus yeah it proves absolutely nothing.

Dsmash/uthrow are good punishes? That says to me you don't really have much of an idea about the match up. In fact I noticed quite how **** your peach is when I've played it before.

I'd do a £5 MM anytime. The only recorded video of that match shows me sandbagging and winning.
Click to expand...
I didn't just mean D-smash and U-throw are good punishes cos that would be a silly thing to say, but I think without going into toooo much of a long depth post about what peach can do it's pretty obvious that Peach can do a lot of damage and punish to Fox with numerous things among her moveset without much diffuclty....

Look forward to the free money.

I don't even remember me playing a match with you with my Peach and it getting recorded and you winning, deeming it unimportant to me.
 
VA

VA

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Also, it's well documented that people switch from falco to fox to fight peach. Because the match up is good, if not great.

And, LOL you won't be getting free money from my fox. I really do know that match up, anything ou've seen before is nothing more than a joke.
 
Professor Pro

Professor Pro

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From falco to fox from playing what character.....

I've already said it's in Fox favour if you don't remember, I just said it's not her worst matchup and it's not a counter unless you play it extremely consistently
 
VA

VA

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I think it is, and yes it requires consitency. Not that the Peach isn't required to the same in order to make it even remotel even?!

I just think consistency is a lol thing to factor into a match up.

No one has talked about it from the peach perspective. If the deal with what you have well, there's so little peach can do. She's basically a **** character who has bad match ups against the high tiers.

This is particularly evident against

fox
falcon

and

sometimes marth

jigglypuff, falco and sheik are sort of meh. sheik will **** you in NTSC>
 
Jolteon

Jolteon

I'm sharpening my knife, kupo.
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Whether you personally call an advantage matchup a counter or not doesn't really change the fact that the definition of a counter is an advantage matchup, so yeah he still is a Peach counter. :confused:
 
Professor Pro

Professor Pro

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Why are you bringing this back up when I have already defined what my defintion and the EXTREME majority of the smash community defintion of what a counter is lol......

Because I remember the other day when someone said that the Falco matchup is 50/50 and you were one of the people with me who agreed saying 'It's slightly in Falco's favour, but only slightly', but I didn't hear you say 'It's slightly a counter for fox' or 'It's a really soft counter' And in references to matchups being riduculously in peoples favour I have heard you use the terms 'It's a counter for *insert name*' so in reality you use the same general smash terminolgies but on Smashboards use this pedantic persona lol.

He's still not peach's worst matchup in this metagame and not a counter.

And from what VA said, he will destroy me and my peach is ****, so unless I am destroyed (meaning 3-0, not 3-2 or some close games) by Fuzz, VA or Edwins fox, my point will just contiounsly as it is right now be in my court. :)

As theoretically it's peach's worst matchup, but theory doesn't always transfer into reality.
 
Jolteon

Jolteon

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Professor Pro said:
Why are you bringing this back up when I have already defined what my defintion and the EXTREME majority of the smash community defintion of what a counter is lol......

Because I remember the other day when someone said that the Falco matchup is 50/50 and you were one of the people with me who agreed saying 'It's slightly in Falco's favour, but only slightly', but I didn't hear you say 'It's slightly a counter for fox' or 'It's a really soft counter' And in references to matchups being riduculously in peoples favour I have heard you use the terms 'It's a counter for *insert name*' so in reality you use the same general smash terminolgies but on Smashboards use this pedantic persona lol.

He's still not peach's worst matchup in this metagame and not a counter.

And from what VA said, he will destroy me and my peach is ****, so unless I am destroyed (meaning 3-0, not 3-2 or some close games) by Fuzz, VA or Edwins fox, my point will just contiounsly as it is right now be in my court. :)

As theoretically it's peach's worst matchup, but theory doesn't always transfer into reality.
Click to expand...
I brought it up again because it's one of your points, and to put it simply, it's wrong since it directly goes against definition (read: fact). Your claim holds as much weight as me saying that Marth has never used a sword in his life or that water is not wet.

You have no proof that the majority, let alone "extreme" majority, of the smash community only defines a hard counter as a counter, that's an empty claim. Also, the context in which you personally use "counter" is irrelevant.

A counter by loose definition is when one thing opposes another, the degree of which is irrelevant. If I decided to change a clock and move it counter clockwise, does the amount of time I move it backward (whether it half a minute, or 5 hours) have any relevance to it? Should I say that "I moved the clock back 2 seconds" instead of "I moved it counter clockwise" on the sole basis that it's such a small difference? No, it shouldn't even be a consideration.

Just because there is more than one way in which you can express something does not mean that there is only one correct way to express something. Whether I choose to express it as a "counter" or an "advantage" doesn't make a difference and it certainly does not mean that either way is incorrect, for the record I do believe I've expressed minor differences as "counters" and "advantages" roughly the same amount of times, but I don't really keep track of it nor do I put a lot of thought into it.

Whether Fox is the worst match-up or not is subjective, but I'm fairly sure if you take a trip to the Peach boards many people will still consider Fox to be the worst (or at least second worst) match-up for Peach.

Tournament results actually have a pretty small role in match-ups, so yeah while theory does not hold as much weight in tournament results, it does in a match-up.
 
Professor Pro

Professor Pro

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Jolteon said:
I brought it up again because it's one of your points, and to put it simply, it's wrong since it directly goes against definition (read: fact). Your claim holds as much weight as me saying that Marth has never used a sword in his life or that water is not wet.

You have no proof that the majority, let alone "extreme" majority, of the smash community only defines a hard counter as a counter, that's an empty claim. Also, the context in which you personally use "counter" is irrelevant.

A counter by loose definition is when one thing opposes another, the degree of which is irrelevant. If I decided to change a clock and move it counter clockwise, does the amount of time I move it backward (whether it half a minute, or 5 hours) have any relevance to it? Should I say that "I moved the clock back 2 seconds" instead of "I moved it counter clockwise" on the sole basis that it's such a small difference? No, it shouldn't even be a consideration.

Just because there is more than one way in which you can express something does not mean that there is only one correct way to express something. Whether I choose to express it as a "counter" or an "advantage" doesn't make a difference and it certainly does not mean that either way is incorrect, for the record I do believe I've expressed minor differences as "counters" and "advantages" roughly the same amount of times, but I don't really keep track of it nor do I put a lot of thought into it.

Whether Fox is the worst match-up or not is subjective, but I'm fairly sure if you take a trip to the Peach boards many people will still consider Fox to be the worst (or at least second worst) match-up for Peach.

Tournament results actually have a pretty small role in match-ups, so yeah while theory does not hold as much weight in tournament results, it does in a match-up.
Click to expand...
Im not saying that your terminolgy is wrong since you said 'does not mean that there is only one correct way to express something'

It's only because everytime I use my way to describe a MU (the same way the rest of the community does) you try to take away from my point by pushing your pushing your description of how you feel it should be described as....and then I just found it funny cos IRL you use the same terminolgies to describe certain situations as we do....

So my point on that subject in short was basically stop making it seem like my terminolgies are wrong when you use it IRL and the whole of the smash community does....and I don't need to provide PROOF and get posts....this isn't a court room lol, let's be realistic and know from conversations IRL/on the boards and different posts throughout smashboards what the general smash community terminologies are.

This situation isn't a clock, so your attempt to use that for what MU's are defined as counters means nothing to me.

And your last part of your post only continues to prove what I said in the beggining of this anyway

'In theory, Fox is the worst matchup for Peach....but in reality and the current metagame it's not'

just like

'In theory, Fox is the best character....but in reality and the current metagame he's not'

So thank you :)
 
j3ly

j3ly

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by the fox logic, mario can be the best char. he too has the ability to combo to death off every hit and his recovery is elite. the theory crafting logic is stupid - perfect fox NEVER GETS GRABBED, perfect marth and mario ALWAYS GET GRABS. Its stupid to argue cos one side being perfect assumes the other side cannot be perfect - as never getting grabbed constitutes a part of perfection on foxes side, and getting many grabs out of setups constitutes bein perfect with mario.

its down to the player. finish up with this silly discussion and back to trashtalking, honestly in theory there is a universe identical to ours, except there is a pichu/kirby main who can JV5 stock mango every game. and in this universe mango is the highest AI half robot/half human mutant.

Earth sucks at smash
 
j3ly

j3ly

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i agree with jolts side of the other argument, in favour of is equal to falco > fox (in terms of matchups)

falco > fox
falco has a tiny advantage
falco counters very slightly

(imo its the other way around but same point holds)
 
S

smakis

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perfect x vs perfect y isn't invalid, if the fox by perfect playing can force perfect z character into a damage taking situation while z can't do the same to fox fox wins.
 
Professor Pro

Professor Pro

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Retroking2000 said:
i dont know why alex and aaron are still arguing lol

also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr4q9RbUzck&t=1m07s

lol
Click to expand...
Alex brought it up again....not me lol.

In my defintion and the general smash terminolgies throught the community....Fox does not counter Peach...which I will further prove when I **** your fox, then VA's and then Fuzz.

It's getting more boring and repetitive then it was before, so when Jolteon probably makes his long comeback I will just quote it and say 'Ok :)'
 
Professor Pro

Professor Pro

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OoC is having a fun little round robin today to determine who places where and who are the best people in OoC in 2010 lol.

The participants will be:

- Professor Pro
- The Lust
- Gantz
- Alpha Dash
- Last Dragon

Place your bets on what you think the placing order will be within our crew, im curious to know others peoples opinions lol. :)

And the videos of course will get uploaded to the amazing

www.youtube.com/user/OoCSmashBaby

SO SUBSCRIBE FOR THE RAPEEE!!!
 
Tamoo

Tamoo

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OK gonnna go ahead and guess
prof
gantz
LD
AD
Lust

Although not seen lust play in a LONG time so maybe he's improved tonnes?


Also all crews should do this :) Whenever we're next together satire guys, we're having a spacies round robin to see who comes out on top :)
 
Bullet Bill

Bullet Bill

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Professor Pro said:
OoC is having a fun little round robin today to determine who places where and who are the best people in OoC in 2010 lol.

The participants will be:

- Professor Pro
- The Lust
- Gantz
- Alpha Dash
- Last Dragon

Place your bets on what you think the placing order will be within our crew, im curious to know others peoples opinions lol. :)

And the videos of course will get uploaded to the amazing

www.youtube.com/user/OoCSmashBaby

SO SUBSCRIBE FOR THE RAPEEE!!!
Click to expand...
My guess-

Prof
Gantz
Alpha
Last Dragon
Lust
 
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