Smash UK Discussion Thread - Check first post for tournaments, facebook info and videos!

[Aiko]

you will always be TC in my <3

 

[Kill The Beast]

You're all massively confused as to what a 50/50 is. I explained what the terminology means in a post on the last page. I'll do it again so there's no confusion.

In street fighter 2 turbo, when you get up (also known as wake up) and you're facing Claw, he has an attack which land either to your left or to your right, it knocks you down when you get hit. You have no other choice but to block either left or right, you have no idea which one he will do, thus you have a 50/50 chance of being knocked down again and the process repeating itself.

This does not exist in smash. Options are infinitely more varied in most situations (thankfully) and styles are so very important in smash. The main point of my previous post is that what Amsah and Armada limit each other won't work on you or I, because we do not play like them. I'm not going to continue arguing this as I'm very confident in my understanding in smash.

Aiko your theory speaks about conditioning, which does not exist in the same way in smash either. It's very different to 2D fighters. Smash is unique and I feel like I'm beginning to really understand the game. Talking crap about 50/50's only serves to confuse people and yourself because your using bad terminology :/

@ Jo3 and Edwin

Fox closes down space and gets in his opponents face. If you approach the Fox vs Falco match up properly you'll know that his lasers don't really do that much to you on stage, he has to be incredibly smart to get them off.

 

[Jolteon]

The fact that everyone has gotten used to it's made me upset.

Wish I name changed before I went to TKI. >_o

 

[Professor Pro]

You're all massively confused as to what a 50/50 is. I explained what the terminology means in a post on the last page. I'll do it again so there's no confusion.

Everyone cease the debate, we are all massively confused and VA has explained what the terminology means already.

We even forced him to do it again just so we can understand how right he is

 

[J03]

Fox can be equally devastating when keeping his distance.

 

[VA]

Everyone cease the debate, we are all massively confused and VA has explained what the terminology means already.

We even forced him to do it again just so we can understand how right he is

lol, that was actually the problem and often is arguments. We're arguing different things. J3ly comes in and gets all mad about statistics in smash and that's not what it was about in the first place.

edgeguarding is neutralising options, they can't go here or here and eventually most go here which then cover. it still takes precision and guessing on both parts on occasion because you have such control over your characters.

the debate became about sematics rather than what it was actually about. But anyway, nice trolling.

 

[Professor Pro]

<3 VA

lol J3ly always comes in a gets mad.

 

[Jolteon]

@VA: Is your 50/50 example of SF due to the RNG (As in, is the left/right direction chosen completely random or player choice)?

 

[J03]

edgeguarding is neutralising options, they can't go here or here and eventually most go here which then cover. it still takes precision and guessing on both parts on occasion because you have such control over your characters.

you cant eliminate an option fully, you can cover it or make your opponent think its covered, which obv can fail. like holding on the edge (option covered?) they go for sweetspot, you DJ bair or whatever, they recover, you fail.

tbh i realise how pedantic im being rofl.

 

[VA]

I think Claw gets to pick which way he goes but the other player has no indication of whether it will be left or right. So he has to pick to block left or right.

There are examples where the attacking player isn't sure of whether his cross up will actually cross up or not, but I think that's even more rare. 50/50's are very specific situations that do no occur in smash.

<3 Prof

I liked the bit that went unnoticed last page where you said if it's done by best posts you'd be no.1 in the UK. Tru dat, also Fuzzy would be bottom tier xD

 

[VA]

you cant eliminate an option fully, you can cover it or make your opponent think its covered, which obv can fail. like holding on the edge (option covered?) they go for sweetspot, you DJ bair or whatever, they recover, you fail.

tbh i realise how pedantic im being rofl.

Actually you can, I watched a game earlier where PP was recovering from about a 45 degree angle from the edge against a Falcon. When PP's goes off the Falcon Shffl's a dair to cover the sweet spot recovery (I'm aware he could tech/meteor recover), but when PP goes high the Falcon simply fairs him in the face as he drops to the edge. That's covering options. Options are never "eliminated" as such because you can always do them anyway? lol.

 

[J03]

true dat .

was PP at full stretch or wall hugging?

 

[Jolteon]

I think Claw gets to pick which way he goes but the other player has no indication of whether it will be left or right. So he has to pick to block left or right.

There are examples where the attacking player isn't sure of whether his cross up will actually cross up or not, but I think that's even more rare. 50/50's are very specific situations that do no occur in smash.

<3 Prof

I liked the bit that went unnoticed last page where you said if it's done by best posts you'd be no.1 in the UK. Tru dat, also Fuzzy would be bottom tier xD

Oh ok, I just wanted to clarify what you thought a 50/50 was (I haven't really played SF so I'm clueless on how Claw's move works), from that example it sounded like you thought a 50/50 was only a random chance and not a player's option of what to do. (Well, I guess you can call it both but whatever).

A situation with 2 options that you simply cannot react to (either because it's simply too fast or it's not telegraphed at all) is how I'd also describe a 50/50. Claw's example fits into that.

 

[Professor Pro]

<3 Prof

I liked the bit that went unnoticed last page where you said if it's done by best posts you'd be no.1 in the UK. Tru dat, also Fuzzy would be bottom tier xD

Lol Not only that he would be kicked out from tournament for just wasting setups

 

[VA]

true dat .

was PP at full stretch or wall hugging?

going at like 45 degree, he would have ridden the wall a bit at the end. He'd also been Daired once already during that recovery and teched, the guy light kneed him further down and junped back on I think...I dun remember xD

And yeah Alex I think you've defined my understanding of 50/50.

 

[J03]

Robby: was wondering if youve anything for practicing nair shine. i think i ehard you saying you do it with the A-stick too? if so how do you practise doing it on sheilds and stuff like that that?

 

[VA]

I learnt it by having p1 and p2 plugged in and starman on very high appearence. this way you go around on FD breaking barrels and the other character is always invincible. If you then nair shine it's as if you were doing it on a shield (the same lag), it really helps to condition your muscles memory for l-cancelling on shields.

Nair shine isn't a particularly good form of pressure though as I've banged on about before. Swizzy would always grab me after the first Nair > Shine.

 

[J03]

aye, i just wanna get it down so its an option.

i know the best places to do it are behind them or space them properly. thx btw

 

[VA]

I just do one now either into their shield or away. Nair > Shine > Nair away or Nair towards.

Also, yes to using analogue to jump, I don't think it's very easy to get it down without that. You'll never be fast enough to make it even close to viable.

 

[Retroking2000]

you guys need to do that sw stuff lol

so i can just grab you

 

[Professor Pro]

I just do one now either into their shield or away. Nair > Shine > Nair away or Nair towards.

Also, yes to using analogue to jump, I don't think it's very easy to get it down without that. You'll never be fast enough to make it even close to viable.

I never shine Nair and jump with the analouge stick lol.

 

[VA]

You're way technical though. I suck.

It took me ages to condition my thumb to be fast enough for SHDL and multishines

 

[Professor Pro]

lool (Not in a bragging way) but Nair shine with the X button is easy
I would actually find it harder to it with the analouge stick and have no idea how you do it lol.

And I cheat with Multishines and SHDL cos I use Y to B

 

[VA]

I use the same for multishines. I watched you do it and copied you.

Also I jump with Y most of the time so maybe that's why I have to use analogue. Re-learning SHFFL with analogue was a beeeyatch.

 

[jjlinyard]

guys when you shine outta shield do you use control stick or button??

 

[Professor Pro]

lol When did you see me do multishines?

JJlinyard - I use the Y button and slide to B.
The aim is to do it and still stay on the floor cos then you can wavedash from it.

 

[VA]

I don't think it's that necessary to stay on the floor, it's more useful as a pressure interrupt and a mindgame edgeguard (bait attack and punish with shine). I do it in the same way as prof.

I dunno when I saw you multishine first, probably at Spkz when we were both **** with fox and used him in the grand finals and you teched a shine and baired me in the face. Remember? lol. The set was 5-4 and you beat me in the last game Samus vs Peach on Kong Jungle.

 

[Jolteon]

use Y for shine OoS, cause it's similar to multishines.

Also I think using analogue for nair shines is really weird. o.o I use analogue for shdl though, so lol..

 

[VA]

I don't use it for SHDL, but all my SHFFL aerials from shine are done with analogue. Dairs/turnaround Bairs etc. I'd find it impossible any other way.

 

[Professor Pro]

lool It's very necessary to stay on the floor.

I always shine out of sheild to wavedash U-throw-U-air or U-smash and if you weren't on the floor you wouldn't be able to do it.

There's alot more you can punish when you stay on the floor from the shine.

 

[jjlinyard]

see the wavedash after is difficult! but yeah you can see definate more ways to punish by staying on the ground.... also trying to SHDL with analogue is well weird lol

 

[Jolteon]

I just can't imagine doing shffls with analogue it seems almost impossible to me, on the flip side I think nair shine with Y is easy xD

and I think shdl with analogue is a really easy method, you just lightly tap the stick up and press B twice there's very little timing involved with it.

@JJ: Try practicing a waveshine OoS instead of just shine OoS, by that I mean like try practicing doing it all at once (rather than practicing just solo shines OoS).

 

[VA]

I can see the uses especially on stages without platforms. I can't do it 100% so I don't really try. Usually I'll SooS > jump again > follow over the top of a platform to an aerial or land near them.

 

[Professor Pro]

see the wavedash after is difficult! but yeah you can see definate more ways to punish by staying on the ground.... also trying to SHDL with analogue is well weird lol

It's basically like if you shined someone normally in the air....you couldn't do nearly as much as you could do if you were to shine them normally on the ground lol.

But yeah def practice the wavedashing straight away.
I'm really consistent in doing it, to the point that I don't even worry if I am gonna do it or not in tournament and that's the point which you need to get to.

I just can't imagine doing shffls with analogue it seems almost impossible to me, on the flip side I think nair shine with Y is easy xD

and I think shdl with analogue is a really easy method, you just lightly tap the stick up and press B twice there's very little timing involved with it.

lol That's weird.

Well I guess each to it's own.....as long as it works really.

 

[L-J]

lool It's very necessary to stay on the floor.

I always shine out of sheild to wavedash U-throw-U-air or U-smash and if you weren't on the floor you wouldn't be able to do it.

There's alot more you can punish when you stay on the floor from the shine.

This is very true but not easy to do consistently for sure - worth getting down though. I've been jumping OoS with the c-stick but i'm having trouble staying on the ground with the shine every time so I'll probs switch to Y then B like Mr. Pro.

I can see the uses especially on stages without platforms. I can't do it 100% so I don't really try. Usually I'll SooS > jump again > follow over the top of a platform to an aerial or land near them.

Yeah that's what I try to do when I can't keep the shine on the ground.

Also I can't imagine SHFFshining with the control stick - I've always done it with X. I guess some people's fingers can do some stuff easier than others, but as long as you can do everything consistently then it doesn't really matter how you do it.

 

[VA]

lol, it's not that I couldn't do it with Y, I couldn't do it perfectly and get the nair out as fast as I can with analogue

 

[Jolteon]

C-stick is theoretically better I guess, but it kind of defeats the point of buffering when you consider that its quicker to go from Y to B than c-stick to B.

@Robby: Ok, fair enough ^_^

/e

(*) ****Oo°***¤·´`· ¸ »¤ ****(*)Áä®öñ(*) ***¤·´`· ¸ »¤****°oO(*) ***™ says (20:53):
*i didnt know sonic 4 was comin out
*can you send a tralier for it plz
Alex (Jolteon) <3 says (20:54):
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HrSN7176XI
(*) ****Oo°***¤·´`· ¸ »¤ ****(*)Áä®öñ(*) ***¤·´`· ¸ »¤****°oO(*) ***™ says (20:56):
*loooooooool
*WHYYYYYYY
*completely not neccessary in this situation
Alex (Jolteon) <3 says (20:57):
*LOOL
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNs6DkEKSMI
(*) ****Oo°***¤·´`· ¸ »¤ ****(*)Áä®öñ(*) ***¤·´`· ¸ »¤****°oO(*) ***™ says (20:57):
*i'll search myself prick lol


(*) ****Oo°***¤·´`· ¸ »¤ ****(*)Áä®öñ(*) ***¤·´`· ¸ »¤****°oO(*) ***™ says (21:00):
*lool is there any other trailers besides that 50second one
*and besdies gay clips like Rick Rolls lol

 

[Professor Pro]

This is very true but not easy to do consistently for sure - worth getting down though. I've been jumping OoS with the c-stick but i'm having trouble staying on the ground with the shine every time so I'll probs switch to Y then B like Mr. Pro.

It's very easy to do it on the floor once you start practicing it and getting used to it in normal gameplay.

Just keep on practicing it and there's so much opportunities you will find yourself being able to use it (against bad spacing or bad sheild pressure of course.)

 

[J03]

lots of post ill read in a sec >_>

i use the A-stick for almost everything, unless im trying to properly space aerials which ill use X for so i can get the full horizontal movement on the S.Hop.

like VA ive conditioned my finger to nair-shine perfectly with the A-stick put i need to get the timing down against sheilds.

EDIT: SooS (shine out of sheild) - Its not nessecary to stay on the floor but it should be your aim if you wanna follow it up as quickly as you can

 

[L-J]

It's very easy to do it on the floor once you start practicing it and getting used to it in normal gameplay.

Just keep on practicing it and there's so much opportunities you will find yourself being able to use it (against bad spacing or bad sheild pressure of course.)

Tbf I think if it was that easy to do then people would do things like waveshine out of shield at lot more, especially against falcon and peach. Fact is the vast majority of the time people just jump after the shine, but I agree keeping it grounded gives much better options most of the time.