Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

For Bug types, it has to be Scyther.

I mean, it is your favorite Pokémon.

you wish

Ask the Developer Vol. 18: Mario Kart World — Part 3 - News - Nintendo Official Site

This article has been translated from the original Japanese content. This interview was conducted before the game was released. In this 18th volume of Ask the Developer, an interview series in which developers convey in their own words Nintendo's th…

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I don't know how to feel about a trashpost drawing of a Moo Moo Meadow cow driving a truck being the end-all/be-all reason why we got a notable cast of Mario enemies as drivers. Or why developers decided a trashpost was better than notable Mario characters people have been begging for to appear in Mario Kart. And why of course it makes sense we got a character that was practically meme-picked because the developers loved a trashpost so much they wanted it to happen and any Mario Kart fan who saw that trashpost for the first time in their lives would think, "Okay, I now want that to be a thing."

It feels so relatable that you can't help but laugh, but at the same time, the idea that we likely wouldn't have even gotten even 7/8 of the Mario background characters as drivers without it rubs me in so many wrong ways. "It really took a ****post for you guys to even consider adding more background Mario characters to Mario Kart? You really telling me that the only reason a Pianta finally managed to get into Mario Kart was because of that? You really telling me that Mario Kart World's character list was literally going to be 4-8 variations of every main character in a different outfit over more different Mario characters as racers?"

I mean, if it meant actually having some more Mario characters in and not making Mario Kart World's character roster nothing but variations of the same characters, then I'm glad it happened. But at the same time, it just makes it all the more painful and questionable on why are they so adverse to adding new characters to Mario Kart.

maybe it's just not an idea that occurs to them

 

[Gengar84]

If you think about it, there really aren't that many super popular Bug types. If you look at the 2020 poty poll, the only Bug types in the top 10 for their region were Scizor, Volcarona, Golisopod, and...Snom (and surely part of that last one is for memes). None of them were in the top 3 for their region, and none were particularly close to the top vote-getters overall. I'd say Scizor has had the most presence in Smash speculation, and some others like Heracross or Genesect get occasional mention, but overall Bug spec is rather niche.

This isn't to say there aren't likable Bug mons, I'd say there's a healthy supply of those. Just not any who really rise to the highest tiers of popularity. I'd guess this is because Bug types are often weaker, early-game mons; many tend to blend in with the crowd and only a select few have ever gotten much marketing or competitive presence.

please don't hit me for excluding Insect Plate Arceus, even though Arceus is in the top 10 for Sinnoh

Yeah, I don’t get it. Bug might be the type that has the highest amount of Pokemon that I love their designs. I think it’s between that and Ghost type. Of my overall top five favorite Pokemon, two of them are Bug type and three are Ghost type.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Here is a different topic, what new alts are likely to be included in Smash 6 that hasn't been included already?

 

[Gengar84]

Here is a different topic, what new alts are likely to be included in Smash 6 that hasn't been included already?

I’m not sure if I’d call them likely but I’d love for Samus to get a bunch of different power suit models, the Triforce trio to get alts of their appearances throughout the series, Bowser to get Dry Bowser, and Yoshi to get Boshi.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I’m not sure if I’d call them likely but I’d love for Samus to get a bunch of different power suit models, the Triforce trio to get alts of their appearances throughout the series, Bowser to get Dry Bowser, and Yoshi to get Boshi.

I think most of these have a chance with Boshi being the least likely since they have to either contact Square Enix or it's like Mario Kart World where it's made different enough.

 

[Gengar84]

I think most of these have a chance with Boshi being the least likely since they have to either contact Square Enix or it's like Mario Kart World where it's made different enough.

I think Boshi is dependent on whether Geno makes it in as playable. If he does, I’d imagine a Boshi alt should be simple enough to negotiate.

EDIT - Oh, I didn’t even realize Boshi was in Mario Kart World until you mentioned it so I just looked it up. That’s pretty cool. Maybe that design of Boshi still has a chance even without Geno.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Here is a different topic, what new alts are likely to be included in Smash 6 that hasn't been included already?

I’d be shocked if Future Connected Shulk (not to be confused with Future Redeemed’s design) isn’t in Smash 6.

 

[Gengar84]

I’d be shocked if Future Connected Shulk (not to be confused with Future Redeemed’s design) isn’t in Smash 6.

Yeah, Shulk has a lot of potential for alts too. Even in the first game, there’s a lot of costume options to choose from. I always liked the jungle outfits.

 

[Perkilator]

Here is a different topic, what new alts are likely to be included in Smash 6 that hasn't been included already?

Guess now’s a good time to post this:

 

[Will]

Here is a different topic, what new alts are likely to be included in Smash 6 that hasn't been included already?

Tekken 8 Kazuya drip replacing his Tekken 7 one (I hope)

 

[Gengar84]

Guess now’s a good time to post this:
View attachment 403020

That’s pretty good. Hero of Time is my favorite version. I might try to fit in Fierce Deity Link and the Barbarian set. I just hope characters aren’t stuck to just 8 costumes next game.

I think I’m alone in this but I think it would be cool if we could get DLC costumes for fighters beyond Miis as long as they’re fairly priced (the cost of a Mii outfit).

Another thing I’d love that would be even cooler is in game unlockable outfits as a reward for completing certain goals using a character. For example, every character could have at least one unique alt outfit model that could be unlocked by completing that character’s classic mode. Others could have additional outfits by doing other things with those characters. I just think that could be fun and give you something cool to work towards beyond just online vs matches.

 

[Ivander]

Guess now’s a good time to post this:
View attachment 403020

The Ember, Frostbite and Charged Sets I always thought look like they'd be great alts for Zelda, with their robe-like appearance. Not to mention the fact that she tends to be with the Three Goddesses in general and she has a very notable reason to be associated with outfits based on the Three Dragons in Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom.

 

[Garo]

Unless we get 10-16 player Smash I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see any new alts.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Maybe they should add Kleavor. It was the first Hisuian Pokemon to be revealed and has a big role in the anime. Plus it's really cool.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Maybe they should add Kleavor. It was the first Hisuian Pokemon to be revealed and has a big role in the anime. Plus it's really cool.

Bug and Rock. 2 new Types for Smash.

 

[dezeray112]

Here is a different topic, what new alts are likely to be included in Smash 6 that hasn't been included already?

I could see Ryu and Ken getting their Street Fighter 6 outfits and Terry Bogard getting his Garou: Mark of the Wolves outfit as alts.

 

[Gengar84]

Unless we get 10-16 player Smash I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see any new alts.

I don’t think that’s necessary to get more alts. Smash 64-Brawl had at least 8 costumes per character before 8 player Smash was a thing. The costume slots don’t have to correlate to how many players there are in a match.

 

[fogbadge]

well if we're talking costumes I'd wouldn't mind

Spoiler

ok I'm gonna stop while I'm ahead

 

[Gengar84]

well if we're talking costumes I'd wouldn't mind

Spoiler

ok I'm gonna stop while I'm ahead

Captain Pikachu and Detective Pikachu both make a lot of sense for alts. I’m surprised they haven’t already made a Detective Pikachu alt. I think the Rockstar Pikachu from ORAS would be a cool alt too.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I hope Classic DK is an alt for the new design when that change does happen, it might be strange to see the two beside each other but I think they're different enough at a glance for it to not affect gameplay. Also bring back Fire Mario cause it's way better than his other non suit alts.

 

[Gengar84]

I hope Classic DK is an alt for the new design when that change does happen, it might be strange to see the two beside each other but I think they're different enough at a glance for it to not affect gameplay. Also bring back Fire Mario cause it's way better than his other non suit alts.

I really hope he has an old design alt. DK has always been one of my favorite Nintendo characters but I’m still not feeling this new design. I don’t expect them to actually have the classic design at all but it would be nice. It does look like I’m in the extremely small minority that prefers DK’s RARE design& so I see no reason why they’d bother if so few people care. Maybe I just have weird taste. I really dislike Electivire while Electabuzz is my favorite Electric type but everyone else seems to love it.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I don’t think that’s necessary to get more alts. Smash 64-Brawl had at least 8 costumes per character before 8 player Smash was a thing. The costume slots don’t have to correlate to how many players there are in a match.

Just to clear up an inaccuracy, out of those 3 games, only had more than 6 costume options. Nobody in 64 or Melee had more than 6. had only 4 even in Brawl!

 

[Gengar84]

Just to clear up an inaccuracy, out of those 3 games, only had more than 6 costume options. Nobody in 64 or Melee had more than 6. had only 4 even in Brawl!

Oh interesting. I assumed there was eight but I guess I never counted. Thanks for the correction. Still, I’m pretty sure most characters had more than four costumes so my point still stands that outfits don’t need to correlate with how many players are in a match. I guess when you play with mods for so long you tend to forget what’s actually in the base game lol.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Nobody in 64 or Melee had more than 6. had only 4 even in Brawl!

While the rest of the Pokemon characters and had only 5.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I wonder if the thing actually bottlenecking costumes (at least in terms of characters that have simple color swaps) is loading all the alts on the character select screen. It seems to try to load them in order, starting at Mario and ending at Sora, and it can take a fairly long time. I wonder if the Switch 2’s extra loading speed would mitigate that (or if 4k support would require higher resolution renders, canceling out the benefits of the faster loads.)

 

[Will]

Smash devs when you ask them to make alternate costumes better than simple palette swaps

I hope Classic DK is an alt for the new design

I highly doubt this will happen. It isn’t like Ike or Cloud where the difference is in age.

Shulk will probably change too to reflect the Switch remastered design.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I hope Sonic gets a classic Sonic alt.

Obviously not 100% the same thing since their proportions are different but like, a lighter blue shade with black eyes and the shoes changed to be Classic Sonic's. That'd be neat, like a reverse Pocket adventure look.

 

[Gengar84]

I wonder if the thing actually bottlenecking costumes (at least in terms of characters that have simple color swaps) is loading all the alts on the character select screen. It seems to try to load them in order, starting at Mario and ending at Sora, and it can take a fairly long time. I wonder if the Switch 2’s extra loading speed would mitigate that (or if 4k support would require higher resolution renders, canceling out the benefits of the faster loads.)

Yeah, that might be part of it. I don’t really know much about the technicalities of game development but that does make a lot of sense.

I don’t think this quite relates since the mods are on an external SD card and not the game cartridge but the more I put on, the longer it takes the game to load. I have a costume expansion mod that gives every character 50+ extra outfits (though I’m only at that level for a few characters). The game takes about 10 minutes to boot up but once it does, it doesn’t take that long to cycle between outfits. Just the initial screen takes a few seconds between matches. The biggest problem is that the game tends to crash after viewing a set number of alt CSS costume portraits and I have to boot it up again. Maybe it doesn’t help that I also have 3,000+ songs lol.

 

[Ivander]

I'm pretty sure part of the reason we don't have alot more alternate costumes is because of not just having to make the alternate costume, but also the super high-definition CG artwork for the character select screen. It'd probably be a different story if Ultimate had 3D models for the character select screen similar to Smash 64.

 

[Guynamednelson]

or if 4k support would require higher resolution renders, canceling out the benefits of the faster loads

The renders using 2048x2048 textures is overkill as-is, they don't need an upgrade.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm pretty sure part of the reason we don't have alot more alternate costumes is because of not just having to make the alternate costume, but also the super high-definition CG artwork for the character select screen. It'd probably be a different story if Ultimate had 3D models for the character select screen similar to Smash 64.

Maybe they can do that for the next game. I’d gladly sacrifice the 3D renders for models for the CSS if that means I can have more costumes.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I wish more characters had alts like some of the RPG protags have, where they are very clear references to other characters.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I wish more characters had alts like some of the RPG protags have, where they are very clear references to other characters.

Especially since some characters are left with mediocre alts if they can’t use their source material. An example is Lucario who doesn’t have any references in his alts.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I wouldn't be that dramatic on Waluigi just because of how much more popular he is compared to Toad and especially Geno. Geno is a character from 1 spin-off Mario game that isn't the biggest seller either and is property of another company as a character, he is the biggest and most token 'bubble pick'. Meaning that unless you are part of the deep Smash fandom, you probably aren't even aware of who Geno is. That's why whatever slim chance he has of getting into Smash 6 (because his chances are actually VERY slim, if at all) is going to be completely evaporated if that game doesn't include him. But on the other hand, Waluigi is again, far more famous, a character whose absence is probably the most noted out of all of them (seriously, even more casual players and gamers are aware of Waluigi's absence in Smash) and is pretty much famous now after he skyrocketed in popularity, not to mention that he will be appearing in games, something that Geno can't say, Waluigi is basically a far more popular Toad (because that's what is keeping Toad back, a lack of popularity, excitement and desire from the creators to add him - Waluigi does have the first one and plenty of that too)

Saying Waluigi is more popular than Toad is like almost like saying he's more popular than Yoshi, DK or Peach, which is not something I agree on.

As generic as he can be, Toad and mushrooms in general are main icons of the Mario series almost like Mario himself. Toad has a major appearance in almost every Mario game ever made, Same definitely can't be said for Waluigi. Take 2 pictures to the street of both characters and see who will be most recognized.

There is reason Toad was apart of the main cast for the movie generated for general audience and casual-goers and not Waluigi.

Either way, the main point is that like Toad, Waluigi is a popular Mario character who continuously been snubbed for reason surprisingly still unknown presumably due to disinterest. Say what you will about Geno and his slim chances, i don't disagree, but somehow Sakurai felt more inclined to talk about him than either Waluigi or Toad.

If Waluigi miss his chances like Toad or Geno, it's safe to say Nintendo and/or Sakurai don't see him much of a priority at all.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Saying Waluigi is more popular than Toad is like almost like saying he's more popular than Yoshi, DK or Peach, which is not something I agree on.

I think it’s more that Waluigi has a better fan base while Toad is more well known or recognizable.

It’s kinda like how Mario is the most well known but has less of a hardcore fanbase compared to Luigi if you are talking about the character specifically.

 

[MBRedboy31]

The renders using 2048x2048 textures is overkill as-is, they don't need an upgrade.

Oh, huh, I didn’t know that… yeah, that is overkill. You’d need that size for a 4K screen for the loading screen (a 4K screen is 2160 pixels tall) but… it’s a Switch 1 game. It does make me wonder if they were future-proofing for a Switch 2 resolution patch or upgrade.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Oh, huh, I didn’t know that… yeah, that is overkill. You’d need that size for a 4K screen for the loading screen (a 4K screen is 2160 pixels tall) but… it’s a Switch 1 game. It does make me wonder if they were future-proofing for a Switch 2 resolution patch or upgrade.

The renders on the CSS are also used on the loading screens, so their high resolutions are somewhat useful there but even then 1024x1024 would suffice.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I highly doubt this will happen. It isn’t like Ike or Cloud where the difference is in age.

Shulk will probably change too to reflect the Switch remastered design.

Fair, it isn't really likely to happen given this seems to be a permanent change for DK going forward, but I do kinda wish they'd give us the option.

There's a tendency among Smash alts to reference classic outings and looks, so for DK I could maybe see the devs saying 'screw it' and letting his retired design have a slot, although it would probably require some minor animation differences.

If nothing else, this is probably the end of generic gorilla noises for him, so at least there's that. Hopefully some other characters can break the mold of their Smash characterization not feeling right when compared to source material.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

If nothing else, this is probably the end of generic gorilla noises for him, so at least there's that. Hopefully some other characters can break the mold of their Smash characterization not feeling right when compared to source material.

It was fine in the earlier games but shouldn’t have been a thing by Smash 4. Maybe even Brawl.

it’s understandable for King K Rool since he hasn’t appeared in a while.

 

[Will]

If nothing else, this is probably the end of generic gorilla noises for him, so at least there's that.

Are we sure? He’s always had realistic animal noise VFX since 1999.