Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Ivander]

Oh, one of the biggest things I also hope changes is the amount of "space" for a Stage in Stage Builder. Seriously, so many cool stages made by people, limited to only 4 players because of the amount of space used for backgrounds, foregrounds, details and whatnot. I really want a Switch 2 version to make it a non-issue.

Also some extra additions like water and water level, spikes, a Magma/Deathzone hazard/terrain similar to Great Cave Offensive's death spots, a couple of hazards from main stages, some more backgrounds(including a couple pure color background like a black or blue background, similar to the backgrounds of Arcade/NES games. Heck, just make one of the NES stages' background a background for Stage Builder), being able to put terrain in the background/foreground past the blast zone, and an option to change the color of terrain.

Edit: Oh, and a new terrain that is very reminiscent of pixel NES blocks(and also can be recoloured), to allow people to easily make 8-bit inspired stages.

 

[Perkilator]

Oh, one of the biggest things I also hope changes is the amount of "space" for a Stage in Stage Builder. Seriously, so many cool stages made by people, limited to only 4 players because of the amount of space used for backgrounds, foregrounds, details and whatnot. I really want a Switch 2 version to make it a non-issue.

Brawl had the right idea of having small, medium, and large sizes available. I think Stage Builder should bring those back, and have the sizes correspond to the maximum number of players.

• Small stages would have 2 players max
• Medium stages would have 4 players max
• Large stages would have 8 players max

 

[MBRedboy31]

Brawl had the right idea of having small, medium, and large sizes available. I think Stage Builder should bring those back, and have the sizes correspond to the maximum number of players.

• Small stages would have 2 players max
• Medium stages would have 4 players max
• Large stages would have 8 players max

Why not have 8 players available on all stage sizes? Sometimes you want the mayhem of 8 players on a stage too small to fit them.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Brawl had the right idea of having small, medium, and large sizes available. I think Stage Builder should bring those back...

Don't all three stage builders have small, medium, and large sized canvases?

 

[Guynamednelson]

You know, with the Switch 2 camera support, it’d be fun to get Photo Fighter as a playable character. Obviously they’d be usable in local and friends-only lobbies only, but hey, why not?

I would hope that's just a Mii hat so not too many resources are spent on a character you can't play as online.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t think this is a particularly popular idea but I’d love DLC costumes for characters beyond just Mii outfits. Obviously only if they’re fairly priced but I think it could be something fun to look forward to with our favorite characters. Base game unlockable outfits through completing things like a character’s Classic mode or meeting certain gameplay goals could be a lot of fun too.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I would hope that's just a Mii hat so not too many resources are spent on a character you can't play as online.

Photo Fighter is a character that’s made of like ten 2D sprites.
The game it‘s from cost $2 (and was given away for free the first month it was out.)

It’s the lowest-budget a fully original Smash character can possibly be.

 

[Will]

Then throw in a Cat Bell. Giga Fury Meowser.

it’s like you put awesome sauce… on an epic plate of bodaciousness

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

New Assist Trophy: Face Raiders. Only summons if the webcam is active.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Perhaps not… but the point is more people would be excited over Alucard.


I’m personally fine with a S2E of Ultimate as long as it’s not all Smash gets for Switch 2. We gotta have a new game too.

An upgraded version with maybe a balance patch or two to tide us over until the next proper game is actually not the worst business idea.

But if Ultimate S2E is all the Switch 2 gets, it’ll get stale pretty damn fast all while forcing us to wait like a decade for a proper follow-up.

Ultimate is already nearly seven years old.

 

[Gengar84]

I think I’d actually rather have a brand new game than a S2E. My main concern was losing my favorite characters like Sephiroth but I feel like he’s actually pretty safe to return now even with a new game thanks to the FFVII games coming to Switch. I’d still love a comparatively large roster but I’m okay with cuts if I can keep a few of my favorites. I just hope the Fighter’s Pass model continues so I can have hope to see more characters I’m passionate about to make it in.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ultimate is already nearly seven years old.

That's the main problem of a Nintendo Switch 2 Edition: 16ish years of just Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I like the game, but I'd also like to see another game in the series.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Ultimate is already nearly seven years old.

I m pretty sure that's what he was referring to with that last statement.

But I'm not sure how much your average customer will care when there are some games even older than Ultimate that are still profitable to this day, from games that are just a year older to one that's almost two decades older. And a lot of those older games are multiplayer-focused, just like Smash, so...

 

[Gengar84]

World of WarCraft is still alive and kicking despite being released over 20 years ago. It may not be as popular as it once was but it still gets updates and has an active player base.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

World of WarCraft is still alive and kicking despite being released over 20 years ago. It may not be as popular as it once was but it still gets updates and has an active player base.

If that series had a character, it should be Leroy Jenkins. That would be funny!

 

[Gengar84]

If that series had a character, it should be Leroy Jenkins. That would be funny!

Lol yeah but I couldn’t accept him over Illidan despite the memes. WarCraft has too many legit awesome characters to go with a meme character as the only choice. That’d be like getting Dan over Ryu and Ken. It would definitely be funny though, I can’t argue that.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That’d be like getting Dan over Ryu and Ken

More like Sheng Long

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Lol yeah but I couldn’t accept him over Illidan despite the memes. WarCraft has too many legit awesome characters to go with a meme character as the only choice. That’d be like getting Dan over Ryu and Ken. It would definitely be funny though, I can’t argue that.

Well, there may be characters from Warcraft that are better than Leroy, but…

At least he has chicken.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Speaking of meme characters, who's ready for Chicken Jockey to be our next Minecraft character?

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Ultimate is already nearly seven years old.

It could even be a decade if Smash 6 is releasing in 2028.

Speaking of meme characters, who's ready for Chicken Jockey to be our next Minecraft character?

If it’s about the movie specifically then there is also movie Steve replacing the original.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ultimate is already nearly seven years old.

Welp thanks for that existential crisis and the reminder of the unstoppable march of time

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Of these I would expect, the graphical and performance improvements, online Squad Strike, multi-match lobbies, mouse support for Stage Builder, and Boss Rush. I'd also throw in voice chat functionality, and the ability to display your face on your character's portrait on the UI.

I don't think we'll be getting rollback because IIRC, it requires rewriting your engine, and Smash is particularly rollback unfriendly.

I've seen enough games roll out a massive rollback netcode change as a free update that I would not be shocked if Nintendo did the same but monetized it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't think we'll be getting rollback because IIRC, it requires rewriting your engine, and Smash is particularly rollback unfriendly.

At the same time, if you have support for real-time replays like Smash does, that's basically the first step to rollback support.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Ultimate is already nearly seven years old.

I'm actually genuinely kind of sick of Ultimate at this point, Not that it's a bad game, It's a great game. But there's a lot of little things about it that bug me and also it's just getting kind of old, Even on like an aesthetic level. Ultimate is kind of a washed out looking game if that makes sense and at this point that's really starting to bug me.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I'm actually genuinely kind of sick of Ultimate at this point, Not that it's a bad game, It's a great game. But there's a lot of little things about it that bug me and also it's just getting kind of old, Even on like an aesthetic level. Ultimate is kind of a washed out looking game if that makes sense and at this point that's really starting to bug me.

Also some stuff has been reused since Brawl like lot of voice lines and victory themes. Notably Mario who sounds a bit out of character and he only speaks twice (Final Smash and entrance animation).

Also the obvious examples of Bowser, DK, Diddy Kong having generic voice lines rather being voiced.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Also some stuff has been reused since Brawl like lot of voice lines and victory themes. Notably Mario who sounds a bit out of character and he only speaks twice (Final Smash and entrance animation).

Also the obvious examples of Bowser, DK, Diddy Kong having generic voice lines rather being voiced.

A lot of older characters could benefit from some changes. Some need like, Moveset changes.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

A lot of older characters could benefit from some changes. Some need like, Moveset changes.

One example how it was common back then to have characters use moves that were made up or don't have much association. It still happens in later games (Smash 4 onwards) but less common.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

One example how it was common back then to have characters use moves that were made up or don't have much association. It still happens in later games (Smash 4 onwards) but less common.

Which isn't a problem if I'm being honest.

Cohesion with what the fighter is meant to convey is more important than anything else. The main problem is when it comes to cases like Ganondorf whose biggest problem is not "he doesn't reflect the source material" but rather a lack of cohesion in a moveset that just doesn't work if three generations of Smash where he's bottom tier if not THE bottom has anything to say.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

One example how it was common back then to have characters use moves that were made up or don't have much association. It still happens in later games (Smash 4 onwards) but less common.

I don't remember if I said it before but there's nothing wrong with made-up moves if the moveset direction is solid.

As an example, Captain Falcon is one of the most beloved characters in the series and the only thing that wasn't made up for him was his Final Smash, but some things such as the Falcon Punch retroactively became canon through the anime. Ironically, an example of bad direction would be Ganondorf.

Even for later games, it still happens. Joker is a shocking example of this because it really feels like his moves reference stuff due to how well they emulate Persona 5's battle animations and its intro but nope, the only things in his entire moveset that aren't made up are his Final Smash and every special but down.

Not every move needs to be a reference. This ain't NASB or Multiversus.

 

[Gengar84]

I don't remember if I said it before but there's nothing wrong with made-up moves if the moveset direction is solid.

As an example, Captain Falcon is one of the most beloved characters in the series and the only thing that wasn't made up for him was his Final Smash, but some things such as the Falcon Punch retroactively became canon through the anime. Ironically, an example of bad direction would be Ganondorf.

Even for later games, it still happens. Joker is a shocking example of this because it really feels like his moves reference stuff due to how well they emulate Persona 5's battle animations and its intro but nope, the only things in his entire moveset that aren't made up are his Final Smash and every special but down.

Not every move needs to be a reference. This ain't NASB or Multiversus.

I don’t have an issue with making up moves for characters that don’t have enough source material to work from in their own games but if a character has a memorable moveset to reference, I’d much prefer they use as much of it as they can as long as it plays well in Smash.

 

[ninjahmos]

Quoting myself from another thread:

I kinda wanna see PaRappa get into Smash.

But unless his game gets ported to the Switch 2…I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don’t have an issue with making up moves for characters that don’t have enough source material to work from in their own games but if a character has a memorable moveset to reference, I’d much prefer they use as much of it as they can as long as it plays well in Smash.

I just want a cohesive design.

Could Mario have one power-up tied to each individual move? Brother, he could fill at least three movesets with that idea alone. But what he's got right now is pretty simple and straightforward, which is exactly what Mario should be.

I don't mind references, but I also don't want Smash to fall under the same trap that NASB and Multiversus did of trying to make everything a mishmash of references instead of a cohesive moveset design that also happens to have references.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

I’m working on version 3.0 of my roster but I kind of put myself in a corner in terms of third parties, I cut some of them to try and hit the sweet spot but now I’m at a point where I either have to cut one of my most essential third parties, Add another line and come up with a bunch more first parties to fit it, Or have zero new third parties (Until DLC).
Pick your poison guys.
I’m really at a loss here.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I don't mind references, but I also don't want Smash to fall under the same trap that NASB and Multiversus did of trying to make everything a mishmash of references instead of a cohesive moveset design that also happens to have references.

I think it should be a middle ground where there is enough references but not too much that it becomes Incohesive. Having original special moves is fine if it fits the character.

 

[Gengar84]

I just want a cohesive design.

Could Mario have one power-up tied to each individual move? Brother, he could fill at least three movesets with that idea alone. But what he's got right now is pretty simple and straightforward, which is exactly what Mario should be.

I don't mind references, but I also don't want Smash to fall under the same trap that NASB and Multiversus did of trying to make everything a mishmash of references instead of a cohesive moveset design that also happens to have references.

My philosophy is if a recurring character regularly does a move in multiple games, they should also do that in Smash. If it’s a power up exclusive to just one game, they don’t need it. I just want playing the character in Smash to actually feel like the character it’s referencing.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think it should be a middle ground where there is enough references but not too much that it becomes Incohesive. Having original special moves is fine if it fits the character.

And that is more or less what Smash already does these days so it's fine.

There's a reason so many people want to see their stuff in Smash. Sakurai gets **** right.

 

[ninjahmos]

Yeah, there are definitely some characters who need more cohesive movesets. References are nice but I don't want a character's moveset to get oversaturated with them.

 

[Gengar84]

And that is more or less what Smash already does these days so it's fine.

There's a reason so many people want to see their stuff in Smash. Sakurai gets **** right.

Yeah, I’m generally happy with the way Smash currently does movesets. I’d have changed K. Rool’s down special to a falling cannonball from the sky instead of his counter but his moveset is pretty great. I don’t really have an issue with many modern characters. It would have been cool to see Joker summon other Personas but he works well enough as is. The summoner role could go to another character like Kerrigan, Yuna, or Garnet.

 

[Louie G.]

This is clearly a big divide in the mentality of the community but I've grown to be so much more keen on taking creative liberties to convey essence rather than digging for explicit references at every opportunity. Had K. Rool, for example, followed the multitude of fan movesets I've seen laid out for him then he would have had a Ground Pound Down B or something. Because that's what he does in DK64, it made sense. However Smash takes K. Rool's essence and ampilifies it, utilizes his big golden gut as a counterattack. Allows opponents to apply pressure to break his tummy open. Has him crawl around on all fours like a rabid crocodile... these are all brand new ideas that elevate the character to new heights and FEEL right. Of course, K. Rool is not without the references you expect. But my point is that Smash's liberties are more often than not in service of the character.

Hell, believe it or not, Ridley never outright dragged anyone along the wall like that until Brawl. That became such a defining aspect of his character from that point forward that it was referenced in Other M and then brought into his moveset in Ultimate. Smash Ridley also uses his wings to fight, in a manner that he does not do in his games. We can nitpick about Ridley's lack of a tail pogo, one of his more obvious attacks. But most of his made up moves in Smash, which is the bulk of his moveset, take advantage of Ridley's strongest design elements and are in service of his ravenous, relentless personality.

For me it's really a matter of this. Look at any amount of fan movesets, and then look at Smash. I can count the amount of "accurate" or reference heavy fan movesets I've seen that I think are honest to god better than the movesets we have in Smash on one hand. It's Smash's responsibility to give you the feeling of controlling your favorite character, and equally their responsibility to make a fun and intuitive playstyle. In a roster of 80+ characters you might have some duds, but this philosophy has been followed to great effect for over 20 years.

 

[Gengar84]

As with everything, it’s a balancing act. You want enough references for the character to feel accurate but not at the cost of making them feel overly clunky. It also comes down to personal preference too. Some people are fine with a more clunky moveset as long as it feels more like you’re actually playing as the character while others prefer a smoother Smash moveset at the cost of some accuracy. Neither is really wrong.