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Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

TheFirstPoppyBro

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And thus the Rare love keeps flowing. Wouldn’t be surprised if a new B-K comes from a Microsoft X Nintendo partnership at some point. Banjo has never been safer for next smash.
Honestly, Toys For Bob has said they'd like a shot at remaking the Banjo games, and I would LOVE for them to be able to do that.

But yeah, Banjo feels pretty safe imo, but of course I've been saying I'd be shocked if Banjo wasn't base game next game for a while now lol
 

Thegameandwatch

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Looks like they updated the renders of the whole Mario cast with the group shot, notably they've even added Toadette to the group shot


View attachment 402754
Unless I am missing something, Birdo and Bowser Jr don’t seem to have updated renders yet. Also Pauline but she seems to recent.

Bowser Jr has an entry in the official website but it’s reused artwork.
 
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Laniv

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Looks like they updated the renders of the whole Mario cast with the group shot, notably they've even added Toadette to the group shot


View attachment 402754
Some things of note:

  • The Mario Bros.' facial proportions got changed, and their overalls and mustaches have more detail
  • Boo's smile is a bit more lopsided
  • Goomba's face got a bit smaller (or did its head get wider?)
  • Donkey Kong.
  • Yoshi and Waluigi have had those poses since 2004
  • Most importantly: it might seem as though Toad got smaller, but he's actually positioned further back. Also in Mario Kart World his mushroom head is way bigger
 

Thegameandwatch

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Some things of note:

  • The Mario Bros.' facial proportions got changed, and their overalls and mustaches have more detail
  • Boo's smile is a bit more lopsided
  • Goomba's face got a bit smaller (or did its head get wider?)
  • Donkey Kong.
  • Yoshi and Waluigi have had those poses since 2004
  • Most importantly: it might seem as though Toad got smaller, but he's actually positioned further back. Also in Mario Kart World his mushroom head is way bigger
Obvious but DK and Koopa are the only ones with different poses.

DK is based on the artwork from Tropical Freeze while Koopa’s artwork is based on the artwork from Super Mario Party but in a different camera angle.
 

NintenRob

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Some things of note:

  • The Mario Bros.' facial proportions got changed, and their overalls and mustaches have more detail
  • Boo's smile is a bit more lopsided
  • Goomba's face got a bit smaller (or did its head get wider?)
  • Donkey Kong.
  • Yoshi and Waluigi have had those poses since 2004
  • Most importantly: it might seem as though Toad got smaller, but he's actually positioned further back. Also in Mario Kart World his mushroom head is way bigger
Rosalina was also changed to be floating it seems and she has her wand now. I think she's also smiling now
 

DarthEnderX

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I recently just completed my pitch for a Smash game called “Super Smash Bros. Great Fray” and I’d love to hear what you guys think about it.
I like pretty much all of that. Cel-shaded. Stage forms. Battle cards.

I still think Smash Run should become a battle royale though.

Jesse and James as playable fighters would open the same Pandora's Box that Goku and Iron Man would.
No they wouldn't.

Jesse and James are no different than Advent Children Cloud. Something originating from an adaptation of a video game property, that later appeared in the games.

Goku and Iron Man are from non-videogame properties.

In that regard I think if they're putting any effort into changing Diddy's design, he's got to be in Bananza somewhere.
If Bananza really is a prequel where Pauline is a little girl, would Diddy even be born yet?
 

Will

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When in doubt, time travelling shenanigans.
inb4 the new antagonist was an old nemesis of cranky’s before he ever kidnapped pauline and he’s trying to erase his lineage with a time paradox

Honestly, I need to know Cranky’s motivation for that stunt :drshrug:
 
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Watuna4343

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It's already been addressed in the DK thread, but I think it's relevant enough to acknowledge here as well - we finally got a look at Diddy Kong who has received some much more subtle design tweaks.

View attachment 402730

I think it'd be an exaggeration to call Diddy's design a 'redesign'. But most notably they gave him visible teeth, gave him a pin on his hat (and likely removed the Nintendo branding... rip) and likely the most polarizing change in separating his eyes ever so slightly. Personally I think he looks good, although I'll miss the Nintendo hat. I'm already used to the new eyes, looks way better than it did in the movie at least.

At this point I think it's safe to say these designs are here to stay and will carry over into Smash. Diddy's are minor enough where you really don't have to change much, DK is gonna definitely see a big overhaul and I'm pretty excited to see it. I know the design may still be contentious but it will be a good excuse for a more expressive Donkey Kong in Smash.
The best thing that could come out of this is for people to FINALLY stop complaining that Nintendo is 'abandoning'/'forgetting' Diddy Kong all of a sudden. Even though at least in my eyes, even if he doesn't show up in Bananza, I think he is a 200% lock for the Mario Kart World DLC and I wouldn't be shocked if someone told me that Nintendo was planning for it from the beginning.
 

Gengar84

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I like pretty much all of that. Cel-shaded. Stage forms. Battle cards.

I still think Smash Run should become a battle royale though.

No they wouldn't.

Jesse and James are no different than Advent Children Cloud. Something originating from an adaptation of a video game property, that later appeared in the games.

Goku and Iron Man are from non-videogame properties.

If Bananza really is a prequel where Pauline is a little girl, would Diddy even be born yet?
Yeah, I agree. I know it’s a bit of a gray area but I think that as long as it came from a video game adaptation, that should be okay. Especially when that adaptation is so closely tied to Nintendo. They’d never get in over Jinx, Yasuo, or Ahri but I feel like Silco, Mel, and Ambessa should also qualify for that same reason.
 

fogbadge

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Yeah, I agree. I know it’s a bit of a gray area but I think that as long as it came from a video game adaptation, that should be okay. Especially when that adaptation is so closely tied to Nintendo. They’d never get in over Jinx, Yasuo, or Ahri but I feel like Silco, Mel, and Ambessa should also qualify for that same reason.
I can’t believe you’re not talking about killer instinct
 

Gengar84

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I can’t believe you’re not talking about killer instinct
I could. Do you want me to?

Oh, I just looked it up. KI Gold is coming to Switch Online. That’s awesome. It gives RARE and KI even more Nintendo presence. I feel like that game was underrated. I still had a lot of fun with it on the N64. Plus, no game with this song can be bad.


All this is giving me more hope that we might actually see Fulgore or the Battletoads make it into Smash. If Microsoft and Nintendo were able to come to an agreement to be able to finally allow all of RARE’s games to be playable on Nintendo hardware, more playable characters in Smash shouldn’t be too difficult. I feel like finally getting RARE back is a bigger deal than people make it out to be. Not only do a bunch of games synonymous with those classic Nintendo consoles get to finally be played by Nintendo fans again but it’s a historic event that a competitor’s properties are now playable on their rival console. I feel like this shows a shared appreciation for RARE’s history with Nintendo, which can only be a good sign.

Is that better fogbadge? :094:
 
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Otoad64

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Jesse and James as playable fighters would open the same Pandora's Box that Goku and Iron Man would.

I don't think we'll be able to handle the sheer mayhem that it would cause for speculation.
Lugia was created for the second Pokémon movie before later appearing in the games. If Lugia can be a Poke Ball, Team Rocket should be allowed.
 

Gengar84

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yes. what is the point in bringing KI64 to the switch if the resident KI fan doesn't talk about it
That’s a great point lol. Honestly, I just got up when I posted the Team Rocket post so I hadn’t had a chance to see the KI news yet. Curious if MaximillianDood will cover it on his channel. He’s a much bigger KI fan than even I am. I love the games, music, and characters but I’ve never been into the competitive fighting game scene. I just enjoyed playing casually with friends.
 

Idon

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Lugia was created for the second Pokémon movie before later appearing in the games. If Lugia can be a Poke Ball, Team Rocket should be allowed.
I think that's a false equivalency though.

Pokemon creatures are always considered game creations first and foremost beyond the intent behind their creation or even their actual first appearance.

No one is going to bring up Lugia and have their first thought be about the 2nd pokemon movie over being the boxart legend. Conversely, no one is going to bring up JnJ beyond being specifically anime characters.


technicalities aside, they WOULD invite conversations surrounding other characters primarily associated with anime from the greater playerbase and if Nintendo ever do decide to cross that bridge, they would also be what Nintendo points to as precedence.
 

fogbadge

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That’s a great point lol. Honestly, I just got up when I posted the Team Rocket post so I hadn’t had a chance to see the KI news yet. Curious if MaximillianDood will cover it on his channel. He’s a much bigger KI fan than even I am. I love the games, music, and characters but I’ve never been into the competitive fighting game scene. I just enjoyed playing casually with friends.
I’d say playing with friends is the best way to play a multiplayer game
 

Gengar84

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I think that's a false equivalency though.

Pokemon creatures are always considered game creations first and foremost beyond the intent behind their creation or even their actual first appearance.

No one is going to bring up Lugia and have their first thought be about the 2nd pokemon movie over being the boxart legend. Conversely, no one is going to bring up JnJ beyond being specifically anime characters.


technicalities aside, they WOULD invite conversations surrounding other characters primarily associated with anime from the greater playerbase and if Nintendo ever do decide to cross that bridge, they would also be what Nintendo points to as precedence.
Yeah, that’s why I say it’s a gray area. I think both sides of the argument make sense. Personally, I feel like Nintendo related properties like Pokemon should have a bit more leeway in that department. Team Rocket as an organization was made up for the original game, the anime just made up two individual members and gave them personalities that people could really connect with. I think that makes them close enough to the spirit of the gaming only rule that it wouldn’t break anything. The rule is just a self imposed limitation anyways and it’s never been inflexible. We’ve had characters like ROB, Lucario, Dracula, and Medusa among others have some role in Smash already. Dr. Kawashima is a real person and he got in as an Assist Trophy for Brain Age.
 

Soy_Man

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I think that's a false equivalency though.

Pokemon creatures are always considered game creations first and foremost beyond the intent behind their creation or even their actual first appearance.

No one is going to bring up Lugia and have their first thought be about the 2nd pokemon movie over being the boxart legend. Conversely, no one is going to bring up JnJ beyond being specifically anime characters.


technicalities aside, they WOULD invite conversations surrounding other characters primarily associated with anime from the greater playerbase and if Nintendo ever do decide to cross that bridge, they would also be what Nintendo points to as precedence.
I agree. I think a character is a "video game character", simply because that's what the general public primarily associate them with. And Jesse and James or Goku are primarily associated with anime (or atleast that's my impression).
Jesse and James are no different than Advent Children Cloud. Something originating from an adaptation of a video game property, that later appeared in the games.

Goku and Iron Man are from non-videogame properties.
Why are you talking about "Advent Children Cloud" as if he's a different guy? It's just Cloud with more belts.
 

Gengar84

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I agree. I think a character is a "video game character", simply because that's what the general public primarily associate them with. And Jesse and James or Goku are primarily associated with anime (or atleast that's my impression).

Why are you talking about "Advent Children Cloud" as if he's a different guy? It's just Cloud with more belts.
I would agree that they are primarily associated with the anime since that’s where they originated. They have made several game appearances though. I guess the argument comes down to whether you make an exception for video game adaptations. Characters originating from adaptations technically aren’t video game characters, but they are very closely tied to them and I believe they count in spirit. It depends how literally you want to take the game origins only rule. Some like myself are a bit more flexible with it as long as it keeps the spirit of the rule. Since Pokemon is so closely tied to Nintendo, I’d say that should give them more flexibility with that rule.

I think Darth’s point is that we’ve already had some content from animated adaptations in smash even if it’s not a full character. Costumes and music are a start and they show that it’s possible to get content from adaptations.
 
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Gengar84

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Having music from the Pokémon anime would be pretty sick though. Imagine battling out to the original Pokémon theme song
Totally. I think that’s one of the big draws to Jesse and James beyond just being great characters themselves. If they could work out the licensing for the music, that would be awesome. Music is something there is 100% precedent for with Advent Children.
 

fogbadge

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Totally. I think that’s one of the big draws to Jesse and James beyond just being great characters themselves. If they could work out the licensing for the music, that would be awesome. Music is something there is 100% precedent for with Advent Children.
I’d say the precedent with the music from the Pikmin adverts. All the advent children music we have are remixes from the original game
 

DarthEnderX

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technicalities aside
No, no aside. Ash Greninja factually originated from the anime. Advent Children Cloud factually orginated from a movie. Things that originate in video game adaptations can appear in Smash. It is a thing that has already happened.

I think Darth’s point is that we’ve already had some content from animated adaptations in smash even if it’s not a full character. Costumes and music are a start and they show that it’s possible to get content from adaptations.
 

Gengar84

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This one is more in the pure speculation camp but I’ve heard people suggest that Ash Ketchum appears in the Smash 64 opening cinematic. You just see a pair of legs so there’s no way to really know for sure. If this was actually meant to be Ash, then that’s some precedent.


Ash Greninja is also in Smash Ultimate as Greninja’s Final Smash if I recall correctly so that’s another direct reference to the anime. Ash Greninja also debuted in the anime and specifically references Ash Ketchum. I’ve been playing modded Smash so long that it’s hard to remember what’s actually in the game and what was modded into it but if I’m right in remembering this was part of the main game then that’s definitely clear precedent in referencing an anime character within the Pokemon franchise itself. I feel like that’s as close as you can get to setting a precedent for Jesse and James.
 
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RileyXY1

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This one is more in the pure speculation camp but I’ve heard people suggest that Ash Ketchum appears in the Smash 64 opening cinematic. You just see a pair of legs so there’s no way to really know for sure. If this was actually meant to be Ash, then that’s some precedent.


Ash Greninja is also in Smash Ultimate as Greninja’s Final Smash if I recall correctly so that’s another direct reference to the anime. Ash Greninja also debuted in the anime and specifically references Ash Ketchum.
Ash was also namedropped in Pokémon Trainer's trophy description in Smash 4.
 

Hadokeyblade

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Having music from the Pokémon anime would be pretty sick though. Imagine battling out to the original Pokémon theme song
I think the reason this has never happened is that anime music is really expensive to license, that's why Bandai Namco has those songs as DLC packs in their games nowadays to justify licensing costs.


Lugia was created for the second Pokémon movie before later appearing in the games. If Lugia can be a Poke Ball, Team Rocket should be allowed.
And the weird instance of Karin Kanzuki from Street fighter having a spirit when she was created for the Street fighter manga years before being added to a game.
 

Soy_Man

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I would agree that they are primarily associated with the anime since that’s where they originated. They have made several game appearances though. I guess the argument comes down to whether you make an exception for video game adaptations. Characters originating from adaptations technically aren’t video game characters, but they are very closely tied to them and I believe they count in spirit. It depends how literally you want to take the game origins only rule. Some like myself are a bit more flexible with it as long as it keeps the spirit of the rule. Since Pokemon is so closely tied to Nintendo, I’d say that should give them more flexibility with that rule.

I think Darth’s point is that we’ve already had some content from animated adaptations in smash even if it’s not a full character. Costumes and music are a start and they show that it’s possible to get content from adaptations.
Primary association is the only thing that matters to me. I'm not a smash-speculation-lawyer so I won't argue the technicalities, or whether not this or that reference to a thing in an anime is a real precedent that justifies adding Team Rocket. I just think it would be a bad inclusion.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Having music from the Pokémon anime would be pretty sick though. Imagine battling out to the original Pokémon theme song
Pokémon! Gotta catch some of them!

Sorry, I had to. :p

EDIT: More seriously though, Pokémon XYZ's Japanese theme would go so hard.
 
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DemifiendEnjoyer

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I had kind of a cool mechanical idea for Smash 6.
Customizable weapons.
So every character in the game would have either a weapon or some other aspect, That you could switch out with a few alternative options that could be found through the game, These would change the moves associated to the default weapon to use this alternate one, And each one would have it's own different properties.
This would also be a really good opportunity for references.
Here's just one example:
Sonic's default weapon would be he gloves, So one alternate would be his guantlet from Sonic And The Black Knight (With Caliburn attached) this would slow Sonic down significantly since he's carrying a lot of metal, But would extend the range of his attacks since he has a sword. Making him a really different character.
I don't know if this idea would be like, Feasible, But I think it would be really cool. Smash has been making attempts at implementing more customization for a while but they still haven't really gotten anything to stick, I really like this idea and I think it might be the one that would stick.
 

Kirbeh

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I'd be perfectly fine with the TR trio making a cameo appearance in Smash but I can't say I have any interest in them as fighters. Even as my favorite characters from the anime, I'd still much rather have a Pokemon.

If a human character was actually the intent, I'd still rather someone from the games like a gym leader or elite four member. Turn Koga, Marshal or Bea into a fighting game character or something along those lines.
 

Gengar84

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I'd be perfectly fine with the TR trio making a cameo appearance in Smash but I can't say I have any interest in them as fighters. Even as my favorite characters from the anime, I'd still much rather have a Pokemon.

If a human character was actually the intent, I'd still rather someone from the games like a gym leader or elite four member. Turn Koga, Marshal or Bea into a fighting game character or something along those lines.
That’s fair. I’m just getting bored of the newest starter as the default choice pattern and thought this would be something wildly fresh and different. It helps that they were by far my favorite thing about the anime and my favorite characters from anything Pokemon related. I get that it’s kind of a wild idea so it’s natural a lot of people would rather have something more traditional.

In the end, Jesse and James are more of a “This would be awesome if it happened” than something I’m actively pushing for. I don’t think they have a terribly realistic shot but I think they’d be fun and give us a nice break from just getting the newest starter every time. I think a similar idea could also work great for trainers that are trained fighters like Koga and Bea like you mentioned too.

Spoilers for those that haven’t played Scarlet/Violet, Sun/Moon, or X/Y:
Robo Sada, Lusamine corrupted by Nihilego, or Lysandre with his Dr. Octupus arms could be fun too.
 
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Gengar84

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The constant Starter doomerism makes me want to bash my face in.
Doomerism? I’m just saying I think I think it would be more interesting to change things up once in a while. How is that doomerism? Modern starter designs haven’t really appealed much to me lately. I think we have different definitions of doomerism. To me, doomerism is saying that everything sucks and it will only continue to get worse, often so irrationally. Or saying “What’s even the point in speculating when it’s obviously going to be X thing I don’t like?” Saying you think other options are more interesting isn’t the same thing.

I’m not totally opposed to the idea of more starters. If the next game has a starter that I really like and it’s among my favorites in the gen, I’ll happily take them. Meowscarada is basically that already but we just had a Dark type cat starter in Ultimate. It’s just less exciting for me if the roster becomes too predictable. It kills the fun of speculation when if it’s always starter/lord/main protagonist from the latest Pokemon/Fire Emblem/Xenoblade game. It’s not that I hate those characters, it’s just that having locks like that makes speculation less fun.
 
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