Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

So if Ring Fit Adventure isn't too late...

Is Astral Chain?

Objectively no, but my stance on Astral Chain is a bit contradictory. I suppose I'm a bit more skeptical of radio silence for a series like Astral Chain that is not an in-house production like ARMS or Ring Fit Adventure. This one actually does somewhat hinge on its future for me because the first game was pretty much just a moderate success. Not absolutely demanding a spot but is justified in one if Sakurai feels compelled to do so.

The more time passes the less essential I think Astral Chain becomes. But there is the hope that Sakurai sees explicit potential in the series and its characters, and chooses them on that front. Shulk could have been glossed over without a second thought if Sakurai wasn't the fan of Xenoblade that he was. Maybe Astral Chain has resonated similarly with him? Who knows.

Bottom line is I'm not counting it out but I'm not counting on it either. I suspect Officer Howard will join the Isaacs, Sakis and Dillons if I needed to bet on it.

 

[Perkilator]

So if Ring Fit Adventure isn't too late...

Is Astral Chain?

I don’t think so, especially since

1. Nintendo fully owns Astral Chain
2. The Switch 2 is several times stronger than the Switch 1, so the technical limitations that originally prevented Rex from teaming up with Pyra & Mythra have all but evaporated (at least for Officer Howard)

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

So if Ring Fit Adventure isn't too late...

Is Astral Chain?

I'm a little less certain on Astral Chain because it was developed by a third party that's kind of imploding right now and sold way less?

If it's just about timing, I don't think timing will affect Officer Howard very much, and being fully Nintendo owned means all it takes is Sakurai thinking the concept is neat I think.

Does make its future a little less certain, but if Nintendo wanted to I'm sure they could find someone else to make it if Platinum goes through the worst.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

if Sakurai wasn't the fan of Xenoblade that he was.

Would Shulk even be in Smash if Xenoblade wasn’t released in North America since NoA was reluctant to release it there until 2012.

Lucas was in Brawl but they apparently weren’t aware of Mother 3 being Japanese exclusive when Brawl was planned.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Would Shulk even be in Smash if Xenoblade wasn’t released in North America since NoA was reluctant to release it there until 2012.

Lucas was in Brawl but they apparently weren’t aware of Mother 3 being Japanese exclusive when Brawl was planned.

Given Sakurai's opinions on other characters this has applied to (including Lucas himself), I would assume not.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Would Shulk even be in Smash if Xenoblade wasn’t released in North America since NoA was reluctant to release it there until 2012.

Lucas was in Brawl but they apparently weren’t aware of Mother 3 being Japanese exclusive when Brawl was planned.

Also worth noting its American release came just two weeks before the project plan for Smash 4 was drafted. I feel like that's what convinced Sakurai to finally pull the trigger, so I really don't think Shulk's a good example here, he may have benefitted from relevancy more than most characters.

 

[fogbadge]

So if Ring Fit Adventure isn't too late...

Is Astral Chain?

probably

 

[Stratos]

It's just something I thought about, maybe the new Super Smash Bros. will be mentioned on the Nintendo Switch 2 release day? I know that's not true, it's just a theory. However, I would like all fans of the Super Smash Bros. series to be mentioned in the next Nintendo Direct, which is not certain.

 

[Dukefire]

It's just something I thought about, maybe the new Super Smash Bros. will be mentioned on the Nintendo Switch 2 release day? I know that's not true, it's just a theory. However, I would like all fans of the Super Smash Bros. series to be mentioned in the next Nintendo Direct, which is not certain.

There should be a summer Direct somewhere in June. I doubt it will appear on Switch 2's launch day on June 5th.
The Direct for Switch 1 was aired on March 27th whereas Switch 2 direct was aired on April 2nd.

 

[NotALink]

I've been wondering when Smash would get a new Zelda rep cuz I was a little let down by some of the choices they made for dlc. (Examples: Byleth, Terry, Min Min, also the freaking potted plant) Not that none of those fighters were bad choices (except maybe the potted plant), it is just that they could've picked anyone else but they chose them instead. I'm making a few theories on who a new Zelda rep might be or any updates they can make to the triforce wielders. Especially since Age of Imprisonment is coming out soon, I am interested at who they might add. I was thinking Rauru as a likely candidate for a newcomer while Zelda, ganondorf, and link could stand to get a few updates. (Especially Ganondorf I would prioritize him first by decloning him.) What do you guys think?

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I've been wondering when Smash would get a new Zelda rep cuz I was a little let down by some of the choices they made for dlc. (Examples: Byleth, Terry, Min Min, also the freaking potted plant) Not that none of those fighters were bad choices (except maybe the potted plant), it is just that they could've picked anyone else but they chose them instead. I'm making a few theories on who a new Zelda rep might be or any updates they can make to the triforce wielders. Especially since Age of Imprisonment is coming out soon, I am interested at who they might add. I was thinking Rauru as a likely candidate for a newcomer while Zelda, ganondorf, and link could stand to get a few updates. (Especially Ganondorf I would prioritize him first by decloning him.) What do you guys think?

Options includes: the Champions (BOTW), Sages (TOTK), Rauru, Impa, Skull Kid and Midna. There is also chance of nothing since there hasn’t been a new Zelda character since Brawl while Zelda/Sheik in Melee are the latest fully original Zelda characters.

Piranha Plant was an early release bonus which is probably why it was added in the first place and it was probably not meant to be that serious of an inclusion.

 

[SharkLord]

Objectively no, but my stance on Astral Chain is a bit contradictory. I suppose I'm a bit more skeptical of radio silence for a series like Astral Chain that is not an in-house production like ARMS or Ring Fit Adventure. This one actually does somewhat hinge on its future for me because the first game was pretty much just a moderate success. Not absolutely demanding a spot but is justified in one if Sakurai feels compelled to do so.

The more time passes the less essential I think Astral Chain becomes. But there is the hope that Sakurai sees explicit potential in the series and its characters, and chooses them on that front. Shulk could have been glossed over without a second thought if Sakurai wasn't the fan of Xenoblade that he was. Maybe Astral Chain has resonated similarly with him? Who knows.

Bottom line is I'm not counting it out but I'm not counting on it either. I suspect Officer Howard will join the Isaacs, Sakis and Dillons if I needed to bet on it.

I believe there was a rumor that a sequel was planned, but fell through when the director left Platinum. If that turns out to be true, it's a mixed bag - On one hand, the series just lost it's developer. On the other, it shows that Nintendo actually had enough faith to commission a sequel, and they're not just writing it off.

I think their saving grace is the fact that Astral Chain is fully owned by Nintendo, so if they really want a sequel they can try to find another studio to develop it. it's not like Bayonetta, where she's strongly associated with Platinum but also owned by Sega, on top of only being afloat because of Nintendo funding (And also having her latest game seriously underperform)

 

[DarthEnderX]

So if Ring Fit Adventure isn't too late...

Is Astral Chain?

The issue with Astral Chain isn't timing. It's nobody giving a ****.

 

[Otoad64]

I've gotta be honest I'd completely forget Astral Chain even exists if not for people speculating about it getting in Smash, I'm sorry.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

To cash in on the beat 'em up revival, Nintendo will commission Dotemu to make a 2D Astral Chain title in the vein of Streets of Rage, with somehow Lappy the mascot being promoted to playable.

 

[NotALink]

Options includes: the Champions (BOTW), Sages (TOTK), Rauru, Impa, Skull Kid and Midna. There is also chance of nothing since there hasn’t been a new Zelda character since Brawl while Zelda/Sheik in Melee are the latest fully original Zelda characters.

Piranha Plant was an early release bonus which is probably why it was added in the first place and it was probably not meant to be that serious of an inclusion.

Makes sense that piranha plant is more of a joke character lol. I think the reason they didn't add a new Zelda rep to smash ultimate is cuz not as many people were asking for one until now. I assume there will definitely be a new Zelda rep in the next game and I will be surprised if there isn't.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I've gotta be honest I'd completely forget Astral Chain even exists if not for people speculating about it getting in Smash, I'm sorry.

I only remembered it because it got a spirit event. Wikipedia says it only sold 1.3 million copies.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Makes sense that piranha plant is more of a joke character lol. I think the reason they didn't add a new Zelda rep to smash ultimate is cuz not as many people were asking for one until now. I assume there will definitely be a new Zelda rep in the next game and I will be surprised if there isn't.

That's not really true. They've been really wanting one since SSB4, and Midna has been fairly popular since Brawl.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Makes sense that piranha plant is more of a joke character lol. I think the reason they didn't add a new Zelda rep to smash ultimate is cuz not as many people were asking for one until now. I assume there will definitely be a new Zelda rep in the next game and I will be surprised if there isn't.

Oh no, people have been asking for new Zelda reps forever now. A lot of them, in fact.

The problem is that unlike with characters such as K. Rool or Ridley, there's no clear leading contender for the Zelda rep. It's all split between like, 15 people. So while there's a lot of demand for new Zelda characters, the characters themselves get little demand overall.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Options includes: the Champions (BOTW), Sages (TOTK), Rauru, Impa, Skull Kid and Midna. There is also chance of nothing since there hasn’t been a new Zelda character since Brawl while Zelda/Sheik in Melee are the latest fully original Zelda characters.

Excuse me, but I think you forgot someone.

It's ok, I won't take your bananas for it this time.

 

[NotALink]

Oh no, people have been asking for new Zelda reps forever now. A lot of them, in fact.

The problem is that unlike with characters such as K. Rool or Ridley, there's no clear leading contender for the Zelda rep. It's all split between like, 15 people. So while there's a lot of demand for new Zelda characters, the characters themselves get little demand overall.

What I meant is that the choice of adding a new Zelda rep is alot more relevant with the attention and the new games in the series. I know that many people have been asking for a new Zelda rep for awhile I just worded my statement weirdly.

 

[Ivander]

So if Ring Fit Adventure isn't too late...

Is Astral Chain?

Honestly...I don't know. The fact that Ring Fit was developed in-house while Astral Chain was developed by a 3rd party already makes things difficult for Astral Chain. And with it's main developers having left Platinum Games, Astral Chain's future is unknown. Not to mention we have enough notable popular Nintendo IPs that don't have a character.

Granted, if rumors are true, Nintendo is interested in investing in Astral Chain and Officer Howard certainly has alot of potential for gameplay. And with the Switch 2 being alot more powerful, any issues that Howard could've had might be clear and realizable and Howard could help showcase the system's capabilities. So really, I don't know what are Astral Chain's chances.

Which is a shame because Smash has the chance of having an unstoppable force:

Meet an immovable object:

 

[Thegameandwatch]

And with it's main developers having left Platinum Games, Astral Chain's future is unknown

Applies to Bayonetta and especially since the series is actually owned by Sega and not Nintendo.

She will probably return but not sure what happens to the series after Bayonetta 3.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Applies to Bayonetta and especially since the series is actually owned by Sega and not Nintendo.

She will probably return but not sure what happens to the series after Bayonetta 3.

Bayonetta is in such a weird position now for sure but since it is owned by Sega and not Platinum, Nintendo could very easily get say, Clovers Studio to make a new Bayonetta.

Also Nintendo owns Bayonetta 2 & 3 outright. Sega can’t rerelease those games without Nintendo giving the go ahead and I think that also means they own the designs from those games. Really weird situation. Nintendo really needs to just pay the price they need to to own Bayonetta outright. No one else is going to do anything with the franchise.

 

[Starbun]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters?

Definitely Reimu and Gordon Freeman. I'm torn on the third pick though, as I really want Tabuu, Springtrap, and Madotsuki. I also want Geno, Waluigi, and Ravenbeak, but I think those 3 have fallen down in my rankings recently. I could go on a whole tangent about every character I want, but I don't think this would be the place for it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I've gotta be honest I'd completely forget Astral Chain even exists if not for people speculating about it getting in Smash, I'm sorry.

The only place I ever hear talk about Astral Chain is this message board. And that's only because this board talks about every Nintendo game as if it were significant.

 

[Ivander]

The only place I ever hear talk about Astral Chain is this message board. And that's only because this board talks about every Nintendo game as if it were significant.

Isn't that why you're here too? To talk about Ninja Gaiden and Metal Slug as if they were significant?

 

[Louie G.]

Isn't that why you're here too? To talk about Ninja Gaiden and Metal Slug as if they were significant?

I mean, both of those series have got new games announced within the last few years. Ninja Gaiden probably has more going on now than it's had in over a decade. I get what you're doing but it's silly to play this game.

 

[MBRedboy31]

And that's only because this board talks about every Nintendo game as if it were significant.

If that were true, people would stop skipping Sportsmate every time the topic of Switch era 1st party characters is brought up. You know, even though NSS sold 16.27 million units. That's 11th place; more than Ring Fit, more than either individual Splatoon game on Switch, a lot more than ARMS, ect.

 

[cashregister9]

Listen if we only talked about games that were relevant or significant

we would have stopped talking about Golden Sun years ago

basically, it doesn't matter how relevant a series is, if talking about it is still interesting

 

[toonito]

On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters?

Mine are Sol Badguy, Chun-Li, and Zero (MMX)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The only place I ever hear talk about Astral Chain is this message board. And that's only because this board talks about every Nintendo game as if it were significant.

I get that your whole shtick is along the lines of "my opinion is the objective truth and anything I don't like/care about is garbage/not worth bothering with", but this is still a weird take.

This is the forum dedicated to a game series that celebrates Nintendo games full of people who love these games both mainstream and obscure. I mean heck, this is the fandom that collectively really likes Golden Sun, which has been entirely forgotten by everyone outside it at this point. So like...what did you expect?

If that were true, people would stop skipping Sportsmate every time the topic of Switch era 1st party characters is brought up. You know, even though NSS sold 16.27 million units. That's 11th place; more than Ring Fit, more than either individual Splatoon game on Switch, a lot more than ARMS, ect.

This isn't really what Darth was talking about since he was commenting on us talking about games that didn't do super well rather than discussing everything that did, but to answer your question, it's because we don't like Nintendo Switch Sports.

Astral Chain doesn't have the legs to stay in everyone's minds for 6 years with no follow ups, but for those that were paying attention and/or weren't turned off by just how anime this game is, it does leave an impression, and the opportunity to take another crack at a puppet fighter is of interest to a decent amount of people. Also, while the idea of this series continuing now questionable at best, it was definitely a possibility when it first came out, so it was something to look out for.

Meanwhile Nintendo Switch Sports is the culmination of the "release barebones, then add everything else the game was supposed to have" business practice, had a very generic presentation that failed to appeal to people who loved the series, and went full on FOMO live service on top of that. Nintendo Switch Sports might be more notable than Astral Chain, but it's notable because it sucks, and we hate it, and the Sportsmates do not appeal to us as fighters in the slightest, whereas Officer Howard has ideas that stir the imagination and appeal to people conceptually if not because they actually like Astral Chain.

 

[Ivander]

I mean, both of those series have got new games announced within the last few years. Ninja Gaiden probably has more going on now than it's had in over a decade. I get what you're doing but it's silly to play this game.

More like within the last 6 months. Ninja Gaiden had no new games since 2014 until the announcement for Ragebound during the Game Awards last year, in December, and then it wasn't until January this year when Ninja Gaiden 2 Black(which is basically a definitive version of Ninja Gaiden II) and Ninja Gaiden 4 were announced. Basically, Ninja Gaiden had no games for 11 years, even though Ryu Hayabusa himself kept appearing in other Koei Tecmo games.

Metal Slug's scenario was different. It was getting new games. The major difference is that they were almost all iOS/Android games and none of them appeared for consoles/Windows until 2022 and then 2024. Metal Slug Tactics in 2024 is like the first full-release console launch title that didn't begin as an phone game. Basically, during the time frame between 2015 and 2024, the only console Metal Slug games happening were re-releases of remakes and compilations, with 1 phone game getting a windows launch a year after and 1 phone game released in 2016 that would close down in 2023 and then re-released on consoles without the microtransactions and collab characters.

I'm just saying, Ninja Gaiden had a big period of no new games until just recently and Metal Slug didn't release any new console titles until last year. Astral Chain released 6 years ago and only now is the Switch 2 coming out soon. Sure, Ninja Gaiden and Metal Slug have gotten titles just recently, but that hardly helps their chances any more than Astral Chain being 6 years ago does. Especially when we don't know if Sakurai has an early draft for the next Smash Bros and if he does, when it happened.
And a reminder that Fire Emblem Awakening almost missed the draft for Smash Bros 3DS/Wii U, while Xenoblade was 2 years before Fire Emblem Awakening and somehow managed to get in even with Sakurai questioning Shulk and Xenoblade's currant state.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Hopefully Bowser is added.

 

[Ivander]

Hopefully Bowser is added.

No way, he's too big.

He makes Ridley look small by comparison.

 

[MBRedboy31]

This isn't really what Darth was talking about since he was commenting on us talking about games that didn't do super well rather than discussing everything that did, but to answer your question, it's because we don't like Nintendo Switch Sports.

Astral Chain doesn't have the legs to stay in everyone's minds for 6 years with no follow ups, but for those that were paying attention and/or weren't turned off by just how anime this game is, it does leave an impression, and the opportunity to take another crack at a puppet fighter is of interest to a decent amount of people. Also, while the idea of this series continuing now questionable at best, it was definitely a possibility when it first came out, so it was something to look out for.

Meanwhile Nintendo Switch Sports is the culmination of the "release barebones, then add everything else the game was supposed to have" business practice, had a very generic presentation that failed to appeal to people who loved the series, and went full on FOMO live service on top of that. Nintendo Switch Sports might be more notable than Astral Chain, but it's notable because it sucks, and we hate it, and the Sportsmates do not appeal to us as fighters in the slightest, whereas Officer Howard has ideas that stir the imagination and appeal to people conceptually if not because they actually like Astral Chain.

I do think people are underrating Sportsmate’s moveset potential. I have some moves in mind, so I should probably be the one to make the support thread whenever those open…

For now, here’s some special moves I came up with a while back:

Spoiler: Text wall

Neutral Special is Serve, where Sportsmates lightly tosses a ball up in the air, and, like when you cancel Wii Fit Trainer’s side special, you can hit the ball away with any other attack. The ball Sportsmate uses is from a fairly long list and the move cycles through them, and each ball has different properties.
One of the balls Sportsmate can use is the soccer ball. You know, the absolutely ginormous soccer ball. It would deal less damage, but good luck to your opponents avoiding that!

Up Special is Spike, where they jump up and then you can spike enemies downward by pressing special again. But, if you start the move while near the ball spawned by Serve, the move becomes Dunk, where they jump holding the ball and dunk it downward on enemies’ heads when you press the button again. We’ll get goofy stuff like dunking on the enemy with a golf ball or a tennis ball or whatever, or even dunking on them with the aforementioned ludicrously enormous soccer ball (although it’s probably most powerful when you actually use a basketball for it.)

Side Special is Header. If you weren’t aware of what Soccer headers in Switch Sports look like, Sportsmate launches themself forward like a missile, Luigi-style. You can’t charge it, though.

Down Special is Bowl, which is what it sounds like. You have to press the B button again to make Sportsmate release the bowling ball, and depending on when you release it, you can alter its trajectory. Pressing the button really late makes the ball go up in the air, pressing it in the middle maximizes forward speed, and pressing it incredibly early makes it awkwardly drop behind Sportsmate (a great way to “WOW!” your friends!)

Sportsmate has a minor gimmick where parrying an attack is used with the Charge Sword from Chambara, and successfully doing so buffs their next attack that uses a Chambara sword to have slightly more power and better frame

 

[Louie G.]

I'm just saying, Ninja Gaiden had a big period of no new games until just recently and Metal Slug didn't release any new console titles until last year. Astral Chain released 6 years ago and only now is the Switch 2 coming out soon. Sure, Ninja Gaiden and Metal Slug have gotten titles just recently, but that hardly helps their chances any more than Astral Chain being 6 years ago does. Especially when we don't know if Sakurai has an early draft for the next Smash Bros and if he does, when it happened.

For what it's worth, I wasn't speaking on their viability or likelihood for Smash. I just didn't agree to rushing to implying Darth's most wanted characters are not 'significant', since they are reasonably active series / brands with years of popularity / influence. Ignorance is not the answer to ignorance.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Isn't that why you're here too? To talk about Ninja Gaiden and Metal Slug as if they were significant?

I mean, Ninja Gaiden is feeling pretty significant these days.

Astral Chain released 6 years ago

Christ, that makes me feel old...

 

[Ivander]

For what it's worth, I wasn't speaking on their viability or likelihood for Smash. I just didn't agree to rushing to implying Darth's most wanted characters are not 'significant', since they are reasonably active series / brands with years of popularity / influence. Ignorance is not the answer to ignorance.

Considering this is a video game forum about a video game crossover filled with fans of various games hoping for various characters, any character/series/video game can look significant here. There are definitely some that are, but some that we consider significant here are hardly given any notice most everywhere else.

Ninja Gaiden and Metal Slug are notable, but bere in mind that we are arguing about them being significant because of their recent game announcements and releases in comparison to Astral Chain being released 6 years ago. During DLC speculation, there were people absolutely questioning Hayabusa's chances because Ninja Gaiden had not gotten a game for a long time while others argued because of his constant appearances in other games, like Dead or Alive and some of Koei's Warriors titles, and Nintendo working with Koei Tecmo. People definitely thought the lack of a new Ninja Gaiden game was significant enough to harm his chances. Now with the new games, people are bringing him up more, not that different from people bringing up other games when they are announced/released.
Which makes you question at this moment, is Ninja Gaiden significant? Or are people here hyping it up and treating it like it's significant because it now has new games coming? Is it anymore significant than Astral Chain when it first was announced and released? Would people still be putting Astral Chain lower than Ninja Gaiden if Astral Chain was confirmed to have a new game coming? There is significance throughout, and then there is significance in the moment. Which one is really carrying Ninja Gaiden right now?

 

[Gengar84]

The only place I ever hear talk about Astral Chain is this message board. And that's only because this board talks about every Nintendo game as if it were significant.

I think more people should give it a shot. It’s actually a lot of fun and has a great soundtrack. I really like some of the character and legion designs too.