Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Þe 1 → Way]

I think all 3 of Kirby's characters are due for changes, though they're in decent standing compared to other series.

It makes sense for Kirby's normals to be based off the fighter ability(and Suplex), but I think they could change a couple throws, Smashes, and maybe like nair to some copy abilities for flavor. Whip, water, beam, etc. Ultimate did a bit of this by giving him back his Melee dash, but I'd like to see more.

Meta Knight being slashed after Brawl was necessary, but it's left him in a state where he should have everything he needs to play well and instead comes across as underwhelming in most aspects. I would settle for his sword hitboxes being bigger and gliding being reincluded.

Dedede is fine, but I wish they'd make him a little less glacially slow and give his gameplay more to work with than Gordo. Maybe change one or two moves.

As for a new character, while I'll always want Bandana Waddle Dee to finish off the RtD Quartet, I also like the idea of turning Galacta Knight into a semi clone off of Meta Knight and giving him lightning and sword beams for a few specials. One could argue he's been upstaged by Morpho Knight in recent times, but I think they could just turn that into an alt like Dark Meta Knight is. In the same way Metroid and DK were supported for new reps in Ultimate, Zelda and Kirby are the big ones due for a new rep in my eyes.

 

[kirbstr]

I think all 3 of Kirby's characters are due for changes, though they're in decent standing compared to other series.

It makes sense for Kirby's normals to be based off the fighter ability(and Suplex), but I think they could change a couple throws, Smashes, and maybe like nair to some copy abilities for flavor. Whip, water, beam, etc. Ultimate did a bit of this by giving him back his Melee dash, but I'd like to see more.

Meta Knight being slashed after Brawl was necessary, but it's left him in a state where he should have everything he needs to play well and instead comes across as underwhelming in most aspects. I would settle for his sword hitboxes being bigger and gliding being reincluded.

Dedede is fine, but I wish they'd make him a little less glacially slow and give his gameplay more to work with than Gordo. Maybe change one or two moves.

As for a new character, while I'll always want Bandana Waddle Dee to finish off the RtD Quartet, I also like the idea of turning Galacta Knight into a semi clone off of Meta Knight and giving him lightning and sword beams for a few specials. One could argue he's been upstaged by Morpho Knight in recent times, but I think they could just turn that into an alt like Dark Meta Knight is. In the same way Metroid and DK were supported for new reps in Ultimate, Zelda and Kirby are the big ones due for a new rep in my eyes.

I know people love the kirby hats and copy the way it works right now, but if I could revamp Kirby in any way it would be to make each fighter give him a copy ability from the games, which could change his specials into ones based on that copy ability.

So for example if he swallowed Mario he would get the fire copy ability, his n special could be fire breath, side special burning dash, down special blazing inferno, up special flame wheel.

I think that would be the best way to add references to his abilities in the games without making his move set feel all over the place with various different copy ability attacks.

 

[SharkLord]

I think all 3 of Kirby's characters are due for changes, though they're in decent standing compared to other series.

It makes sense for Kirby's normals to be based off the fighter ability(and Suplex), but I think they could change a couple throws, Smashes, and maybe like nair to some copy abilities for flavor. Whip, water, beam, etc. Ultimate did a bit of this by giving him back his Melee dash, but I'd like to see more.

Meta Knight being slashed after Brawl was necessary, but it's left him in a state where he should have everything he needs to play well and instead comes across as underwhelming in most aspects. I would settle for his sword hitboxes being bigger and gliding being reincluded.

Dedede is fine, but I wish they'd make him a little less glacially slow and give his gameplay more to work with than Gordo. Maybe change one or two moves.

As for a new character, while I'll always want Bandana Waddle Dee to finish off the RtD Quartet, I also like the idea of turning Galacta Knight into a semi clone off of Meta Knight and giving him lightning and sword beams for a few specials. One could argue he's been upstaged by Morpho Knight in recent times, but I think they could just turn that into an alt like Dark Meta Knight is. In the same way Metroid and DK were supported for new reps in Ultimate, Zelda and Kirby are the big ones due for a new rep in my eyes.

Kirby at least has a good few Fighter and Suplex moves, which I think flow naturally with the current Copy Ability setup he has. Honestly I like that idea; It's easy for newcomers to grasp, conveys the idea of the Copy Ability well, and doesn't clash with his moveset too much. That said, I don't think it'd be too intrusive to use the elemental abilities, like the Fire breath, Spark and Freeze auras, or the Sand fist

 

[Watuna4343]

So, inspired by seeing other rosters for Smash 6 and giving predictions of mine, I made a prediction of what a Smash 6 would look like if it had around ~60 fighters (I landed on 62 overall) in base game both in terms of veterans and newcomers (I predict that the newcomers won't be as sparce as in Ultimate and they will be pretty highly prioritized overall):

Note that Louie and the Octoling are echo fighters of Olimar and Inkling respectively.
Edit: I want to emphasize that this is a prediction largely, not a wishlist. Like this roster is based moreso on what I think is likely to happen (though obviously you never know for sure)

 

[Thegameandwatch]

So, inspired by seeing other rosters for Smash 6 and giving predictions of mine, I made a prediction of what a Smash 6 would look like if it had around ~60 fighters (I landed on 62 overall) in base game both in terms of veterans and newcomers (I predict that the newcomers won't be as sparce as in Ultimate and they will be pretty highly prioritized overall):

View attachment 401341

Note that Louie and the Octoling are echo fighters of Olimar and Inkling respectively.

It’s weird that Falco is missing but that’s probably because he has been in the series for so long.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Meta Knight has used several ranged attacks in his fights, like tornadoes and fire waves, so it's kinda weird to me that he's strictly close range in Smash. I assume Sakurai conceptualized him in Brawl as a speedy in-your-face swordsman.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I assume Sakurai conceptualized him in Brawl as a speedy in-your-face swordsman.

Also it wasn’t that common for sword characters to have projectiles unless it was their main gimmick like how Ike didn’t have one despite that being a thing in his games.

 

[dream1ng]

I feel like when people cut Mewtwo because he's been cut before it's without remembering that last time that happened he became more requested than Mega Man and was their first priority to add after the already-decided base Smash 4 roster.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

So, inspired by seeing other rosters for Smash 6 and giving predictions of mine, I made a prediction of what a Smash 6 would look like if it had around ~60 fighters (I landed on 62 overall) in base game both in terms of veterans and newcomers (I predict that the newcomers won't be as sparce as in Ultimate and they will be pretty highly prioritized overall):

View attachment 401341

Note that Louie and the Octoling are echo fighters of Olimar and Inkling respectively.
Edit: I want to emphasize that this is a prediction largely, not a wishlist. Like this roster is based moreso on what I think is likely to happen (though obviously you never know for sure)

This roster I wouldn’t be a fan of personally if it turn out to be the roster for the next smash. I only like Ayumi’s addition, Sans, Waluigi and kind of Rayman. My biggest problem is that we lost to many of the dlc fighters from smash ultimate which just so happen to be some of my most liked characters to play with. And in general I don’t think the addition here make up for what is lost from the other games roster.

Edit: Also this roster lacks on super hyper announcements besides Rayman, Sans and Waluigi. Like where is DoomGuy, 2B from Nier, Master chief, Elden ring character, Resident evil character, Monster Hunter, Dante, Chun-Li, Sol badguy, Kiryu, Arle Nadja, Crash bandicoot? Etc. This roster just misses a lot on the super hype announcement you know for sure would excite a ton of people on the internet. And it lacks on retro reps or niche characters like Ryu Hayabusa, insert JRPG character here, or classic characters with a long running legacy.

In conclusion I don’t think this roster feels like something Sakurai would make as a roster.
I say all of this with all respect by the way just sharing my thoughts.

 

[DarthEnderX]

My biggest problem is that we lost to many of the dlc fighters from smash ultimate which just so happen to be some of my most liked characters to play with.

Yeah, cutting almost every 3P character from the roster is a non-starter for me.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Yeah, cutting almost every 3P character from the roster is a non-starter for me.

Indeed, same.

 

[Gengar84]

Indeed, same.

Same here. I love a lot of the first party characters too but a lot of my favorite Smash characters are third party. It would be hard for me to get excited about a game that cuts almost all of them, especially if the few 3P newcomers don’t really appeal to me.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I feel like when people cut Mewtwo because he's been cut before it's without remembering that last time that happened he became more requested than Mega Man and was their first priority to add after the already-decided base Smash 4 roster.

That’s true, but we’re also probably dealing with many more cuts than any game before. Mewtwo was the only unique character from Melee to be cut.

 

[Shinuto]

So, inspired by seeing other rosters for Smash 6 and giving predictions of mine, I made a prediction of what a Smash 6 would look like if it had around ~60 fighters (I landed on 62 overall) in base game both in terms of veterans and newcomers (I predict that the newcomers won't be as sparce as in Ultimate and they will be pretty highly prioritized overall):

View attachment 401341

Note that Louie and the Octoling are echo fighters of Olimar and Inkling respectively.
Edit: I want to emphasize that this is a prediction largely, not a wishlist. Like this roster is based moreso on what I think is likely to happen (though obviously you never know for sure)

Man there is almost NO hype in this roster. It's almost impressive how little hype there is. Would AnYone give a **** about Muddy Mole? I like Melia and Sans, Rayman, Waluigi and Ayumi but like everything else is super bland tbh

 

[Megadoomer]

So, inspired by seeing other rosters for Smash 6 and giving predictions of mine, I made a prediction of what a Smash 6 would look like if it had around ~60 fighters (I landed on 62 overall) in base game both in terms of veterans and newcomers (I predict that the newcomers won't be as sparce as in Ultimate and they will be pretty highly prioritized overall):

View attachment 401341

Note that Louie and the Octoling are echo fighters of Olimar and Inkling respectively.
Edit: I want to emphasize that this is a prediction largely, not a wishlist. Like this roster is based moreso on what I think is likely to happen (though obviously you never know for sure)

I feel like there would be more returning third party characters than this. (though I get that people are going to have wildly different opinions about this topic)

• Nintendo seems to have a financial interest in Bayonetta's series continuing (they funded 3/4 of the games - if not for them, then Bayonetta wouldn't have a full series, being limited to one game and a few cameo appearances), and they'd already be working with Sega for Sonic's almost inevitable conclusion
• Konami and SNK seem to have no problems with lending Castlevania characters and Terry out to whoever asks (Castlevania's gotten DLC in at least three indie games off the top of my head; SNK infamously let Smash use 50 songs, along with having him be included in games like Fighting EX Layer)
• while I don't know if they'd be saved for DLC, I figure at least one Microsoft character would come back eventually between the seemingly unanimously positive reaction to Banjo/Kazooie and Steve's announcement generating so much excitement that it broke Twitter.

There's also Sora, who was easier to include than I think most of us expected; I'd think that, with the connections established, he stands a good chance of returning.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Re: Third Parties

3P’s are in a weird boat. It depends on the direction Nintendo and Sakurai will go in, but it does feel like a very good bet that Nintendo will prioritise the Switch era in terms of veterans and newcomers.

That and licensing issues, possible clashes with age ratings getting stricter, and simply swapping out a 3P veteran for a newcomer could cause a shakeup in the lineup.

I’d say characters like don’t have anything to worry about. I’d also suggest are also generally safe, even if they MIGHT be pushed post-launch.

Re: Switch 2 Editions

A Switch 2 Edition of Ultimate will feel like a hard ask considering it will likely NOT include Fighters Pass 1 + 2 content if Breath of the Wild’s Switch 2 Edition is anything to go off from by not including its expansion content.

I wouldn’t rule out games with just one major DLC pack though. Splatoon might not be on the Switch 2 until 2027 at the latest, and I can see Xenoblade 2 or 3 (but not both) get a NS2 Edition without their respective DLC campaigns.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Meta Knight has used several ranged attacks in his fights, like tornadoes and fire waves, so it's kinda weird to me that he's strictly close range in Smash. I assume Sakurai conceptualized him in Brawl as a speedy in-your-face swordsman.

Since lacking a projectile is kind of standard for swordfighter balance, you'd be pretty hard pressed to convince the devs to give one to a swordfighter that multi-jumps.

Though to be fair he's not really a swordfighter in his current state sooooo...

 

[Watuna4343]

This roster I wouldn’t be a fan of personally if it turn out to be the roster for the next smash. I only like Ayumi’s addition, Sans, Waluigi and kind of Rayman. My biggest problem is that we lost to many of the dlc fighters from smash ultimate which just so happen to be some of my most liked characters to play with. And in general I don’t think the addition here make up for what is lost from the other games roster.

Edit: Also this roster lacks on super hyper announcements besides Rayman, Sans and Waluigi. Like where is DoomGuy, 2B from Nier, Master chief, Elden ring character, Resident evil character, Monster Hunter, Dante, Chun-Li, Sol badguy, Kiryu, Arle Nadja, Crash bandicoot? Etc. This roster just misses a lot on the super hype announcement you know for sure would excite a ton of people on the internet. And it lacks on retro reps or niche characters like Ryu Hayabusa, insert JRPG character here, or classic characters with a long running legacy.

In conclusion I don’t think this roster feels like something Sakurai would make as a roster.
I say all of this with all respect by the way just sharing my thoughts.

Well, given that this is a base roster prediction first and foremost I respectfully really struggle to see how a) THIS many 3rd party characters are the glaring omissions and b) if Ultimate and 4's DLC characters were the most hype characters, why it can't be the case for Smash 6, after all there's a reason why most hype=DLC aka character you pay for. I can't see 2B or Doomguy for example being base game at all.

 

[Gengar84]

Re: Third Parties

3P’s are in a weird boat. It depends on the direction Nintendo and Sakurai will go in, but it does feel like a very good bet that Nintendo will prioritise the Switch era in terms of veterans and newcomers.

That and licensing issues, possible clashes with age ratings getting stricter, and simply swapping out a 3P veteran for a newcomer could cause a shakeup in the lineup.

I’d say characters like don’t have anything to worry about. I’d also suggest are also generally safe, even if they MIGHT be pushed post-launch.

Re: Switch 2 Editions

A Switch 2 Edition of Ultimate will feel like a hard ask considering it will likely NOT include Fighters Pass 1 + 2 content if Breath of the Wild’s Switch 2 Edition is anything to go off from by not including its expansion content.

I wouldn’t rule out games with just one major DLC pack though. Splatoon might not be on the Switch 2 until 2027 at the latest, and I can see Xenoblade 2 or 3 (but not both) get a NS2 Edition without their respective DLC campaigns.

From what I understand, the BotW carries over if you already have it on the Switch but it doesn’t come packed into the Switch 2 Edition. So you’d have to buy the DLC from scratch if you didn’t already do it. Is that right?

 

[Watuna4343]

I feel like when people cut Mewtwo because he's been cut before it's without remembering that last time that happened he became more requested than Mega Man and was their first priority to add after the already-decided base Smash 4 roster.

I was really torn about Mewtwo but again, this is a prediction and I am pretty sure even during Smash 4's dev Sakurai was aware that Mewtwo was seen as a big omission and still kept it for DLC.

 

[Opossum]

Would AnYone give a **** about Muddy Mole?

Hop off the GOAT; he threw the Actual Sun into the ocean to save his family and I will hear no disrespect.

 

[Watuna4343]

I feel like there would be more returning third party characters than this. (though I get that people are going to have wildly different opinions about this topic)

• Nintendo seems to have a financial interest in Bayonetta's series continuing (they funded 3/4 of the games - if not for them, then Bayonetta wouldn't have a full series, being limited to one game and a few cameo appearances), and they'd already be working with Sega for Sonic's almost inevitable conclusion
• Konami and SNK seem to have no problems with lending Castlevania characters and Terry out to whoever asks (Castlevania's gotten DLC in at least three indie games off the top of my head; SNK infamously let Smash use 50 songs, along with having him be included in games like Fighting EX Layer)
• while I don't know if they'd be saved for DLC, I figure at least one Microsoft character would come back eventually between the seemingly unanimously positive reaction to Banjo/Kazooie and Steve's announcement generating so much excitement that it broke Twitter.

There's also Sora, who was easier to include than I think most of us expected; I'd think that, with the connections established, he stands a good chance of returning.

I think the number of the 3rd parties is gonna depend largely on the number of returnees though. Like I know that it's seen as tough for many to cut a lot of the 3rd parties, but I can't see a world in a roster of the numbers I posted where Nintendo/Sakurai don't prioritize their own IPs. For better or for worse, the 3rd parties are in the line of fire in terms of cuts. And despite ease of development, I moreso foresee a Smash 4 situation for Snake where they are simply not asked back because there's only so much time to bring together old and new characters.

 

[Gengar84]

How would everyone feel about Dillon as a weird niche surprise character? I’ve never played his games but I always thought his design was pretty neat and he could make for a fun Smash character. He’s not very well known at all but I think it’s fun to bring in characters like that every now and then just to keep things fresh.

 

[Watuna4343]

Man there is almost NO hype in this roster. It's almost impressive how little hype there is. Would AnYone give a **** about Muddy Mole? I like Melia and Sans, Rayman, Waluigi and Ayumi but like everything else is super bland tbh

Muddy Mole is not here to be a hype addition though. He moreso stands for the token surprise/retro character that Sakurai is so fond of including. And... I am pretty sure that the base rosters are meant to be less exciting than the DLCs given that... you know, you pay for them.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Would AnYone give a **** about Muddy Mole?

Someone hasn't played Mole Mania. Its peak.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

That’s true, but we’re also probably dealing with many more cuts than any game before. Mewtwo was the only unique character from Melee to be cut.

Another example but with Brawl to Smash 4 was Snake who is the only cut character that wasn’t because of hardware limitations (PT and Ice Climbers) or a type of moveset clone (Wolf and pre-DLC Lucas).

It was never revealed why he was cut but my guess was that it was probably Nintendo simply not contacting Konami and Kojima.

Smash 4 was planned before the drama happened with MGS5 so that wasn’t the reason.

 

[Gengar84]

I’m not completely confident about Bayonetta returning. With all the drama with Platinum Games as well as with Bayonetta’s voice actress combined with the poor sales of the recent games, it makes me question whether she’s still as likely as most think. If Nintendo sees value in continuing the series, I can definitely see her returning but I don’t think it’s a sure thing right now.

 

[Perkilator]

I know I said I wanted to give up Smash speculation, but I wanted to ask something.

How would you guys feel if the next Smash game was a joint project between Nintendo EPD and Koei Tecmo, with Sakurai's supervision? Because I can't imagine Nintendo would want to not have a Smash game early in the Switch 2's life cycle, but I als can't see them making a Smash game without at least getting Sakurai on board as a supervisor.

 

[Laniv]

Would AnYone give a **** about Muddy Mole?

Me. I would

 

[Gengar84]

I know I said I wanted to give up Smash speculation, but I wanted to ask something.

How would you guys feel if the next Smash game was a joint project between Nintendo EPD and Koei Tecmo, with Sakurai's supervision? Because I can't imagine Nintendo would want to not have a Smash game early in the Switch 2's life cycle, but I als can't see them making a Smash game without at least getting Sakurai on board as a supervisor.

I love the Warriors series but I don’t think Koei Tecmo has any experience making platform fighters like Smash. That said, as long as the game is good and has enough content that interests me, I have no issues with it. I feel like they’d be more likely to stick with Bandai Namco though.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I know I said I wanted to give up Smash speculation, but I wanted to ask something.

How would you guys feel if the next Smash game was a joint project between Nintendo EPD and Koei Tecmo, with Sakurai's supervision? Because I can't imagine Nintendo would want to not have a Smash game early in the Switch 2's life cycle, but I als can't see them making a Smash game without at least getting Sakurai on board as a supervisor.

I dunno. Nintendo seems to have like, 10 EPD teams, but only 3 of them work with other companies:

• EPD 1 has worked on stuff like Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee, and Kirby Star Allies.
• EPD2 has worked on mostly Mario spin-offs (Camelot, AlphaDream, etc.) and Super Smash Bros.
• EPD 6 has worked on other Mario spin-offs (Next Level Games, and Intellegent Systems), WarioWare, and Metroid Prime Federation Force.

A lot of these teams have kinda mixed bag resumes from the examples provided, but that's likely because of missteps from the other companies, and I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo EPD was more of a managerial role.

So honestly I wouldn't know what to think about it until results were seen.

I love the Warriors series but I don’t think Koei Tecmo has any experience making platform fighters like Smash. That said, as long as the game is good and has enough content that interests me, I have no issues with it. I feel like they’d be more likely to stick with Bandai Namco though.

Yeah the Bandai Namco Smash team would make the most sense to pick up development even if Sakurai and Sora Ltd. could no longer be involved.

 

[Opossum]

So, inspired by seeing other rosters for Smash 6 and giving predictions of mine, I made a prediction of what a Smash 6 would look like if it had around ~60 fighters (I landed on 62 overall) in base game both in terms of veterans and newcomers (I predict that the newcomers won't be as sparce as in Ultimate and they will be pretty highly prioritized overall):

View attachment 401341

Note that Louie and the Octoling are echo fighters of Olimar and Inkling respectively.
Edit: I want to emphasize that this is a prediction largely, not a wishlist. Like this roster is based moreso on what I think is likely to happen (though obviously you never know for sure)

Figured I'd give my thoughts here as well.

Honestly? This is one of the more agreeable lineups I've seen posted. Over all I like it. Definitely some characters that I think got cut that shouldn't have been, and a few who stuck around or got in that I don't think will, but over all, not bad.

Leaving aside characters I'd be sad to see go but also understand why others would see them as unlikely (Chrom, Lucas, Cloud), the only major disagreements I have are:

- The cuts of R.O.B. and Palutena, who I feel are more safe than a few of the veterans you kept.

- Jigglypuff and a complete Pokémon Trainer being kept over Mewtwo, which I feel is unlikely at best.

- Konami losing all of its characters while Rayman gets added, since I think Rayman is probably the least likely newcomer of your lot.


Besides that I actually quite like the newcomer choices. Waluigi, Sans, and Muddy are the goats. Sidon is an inspired choice. Tom Nook isn't my favorite pick for a money character, but in a scenario where we didn't get Gholdengo he's an excellent choice. Off the Hook gives us actual Splatoon characters that aren't just avatars, so they're great. Meowscarada is fun. Ayumi makes a lot of sense.

 

[fogbadge]

I know I said I wanted to give up Smash speculation, but I wanted to ask something.

How would you guys feel if the next Smash game was a joint project between Nintendo EPD and Koei Tecmo, with Sakurai's supervision? Because I can't imagine Nintendo would want to not have a Smash game early in the Switch 2's life cycle, but I als can't see them making a Smash game without at least getting Sakurai on board as a supervisor.

I'd rather we didn't get a volleyball game

 

[Megadoomer]

I know I said I wanted to give up Smash speculation, but I wanted to ask something.

How would you guys feel if the next Smash game was a joint project between Nintendo EPD and Koei Tecmo, with Sakurai's supervision? Because I can't imagine Nintendo would want to not have a Smash game early in the Switch 2's life cycle, but I als can't see them making a Smash game without at least getting Sakurai on board as a supervisor.

I'd be fine with it; I feel like if they work with any third party company, it would be Namco-Bandai (seeing as they helped to make three Smash games and I think they established a division for that purpose; not sure about that last part, though), but if it improves Ryu Hayabusa's chances of making it in, then that's a plus. (I'm honestly surprised that he hasn't made it into Smash already)

 

[kirbstr]

The issue with speculating roster cuts is that whoever gets cut needs to be less popular than everyone you add as newcomers.

As such, it's easy to speculate cuts to 3rd party characters because "muh licensing", when that has yet to ever be an issue for the Smash team or Nintendo.

If the next smash game does make big cuts, I'd hope they stop prioritizing "series vets" that are only really relevant to Smash and nobody is banging the table to keep.

Like, it's time for Jigglypuff to go. I'd rather keep every pokemon on the roster over it. Same with ZSS and Sheik. Cool concepts for what they were originally designed for, but would people really miss them? Falco too. I think before Ultimate cutting Falco would sound like blasphemy, but nowadays he's more known for being an obnoxious cutscene combo character than anything.

 

[Gengar84]

I'd be fine with it; I feel like if they work with any third party company, it would be Namco-Bandai (seeing as they helped to make three Smash games and I think they established a division for that purpose; not sure about that last part, though), but if it improves Ryu Hayabusa's chances of making it in, then that's a plus. (I'm honestly surprised that he hasn't made it into Smash already)

I feel pretty confident in Hayabusa’s chances even with Bandai Namco working on the game. He’s a classic retro icon and has now had two big revivals. My hope is we get Hayabusa for the base game and Lu Bu for DLC.

The issue with speculating roster cuts is that whoever gets cut needs to be less popular than everyone you add as newcomers.

As such, it's easy to speculate cuts to 3rd party characters because "muh licensing", when that has yet to ever be an issue for the Smash team or Nintendo.

If the next smash game does make big cuts, I'd hope they stop prioritizing "series vets" that are only really relevant to Smash and nobody is banging the table to keep.

Like, it's time for Jigglypuff to go. I'd rather keep every pokemon on the roster over it. Same with ZSS and Sheik. Cool concepts for what they were originally designed for, but would people really miss them? Falco too. I think before Ultimate cutting Falco would sound like blasphemy, but nowadays he's more known for being an obnoxious cutscene combo character than anything.

Considering Sheik is one of my favorite characters on the roster, I’d definitely miss her. I can understand why she might not be prioritized because she’s A: an alternate form of Zelda and B: been absent from the mainline series since her debut in OoT. Just out of pure bias, I want to keep her around because I think she’s really cool but I’d understand if she didn’t make the cut.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If the next smash game does make big cuts, I'd hope they stop prioritizing "series vets" that are only really relevant to Smash and nobody is banging the table to keep.

Like, it's time for Jigglypuff to go. I'd rather keep every pokemon on the roster over it. Same with ZSS and Sheik. Cool concepts for what they were originally designed for, but would people really miss them? Falco too. I think before Ultimate cutting Falco would sound like blasphemy, but nowadays he's more known for being an obnoxious cutscene combo character than anything.

If we were to tally all the characters that are (probably) only still around because legacy, I think it would be something like this:
(If in next game: )

Of these, cutting Fox, Ness, or Captain Falcon is unambiguously a bad idea. We've demonstrated that the Ice Climbers will be missed, but won't upend public opinion on their absence. It may have just been the knowledge that they were impossible to add that saved it, but all in all they're probably fine. After his comeback, Roy is likely also in the "will be missed, but not too deeply" camp with the climbers.

While none of the small Links are super popular as characters, I think the absence of both would annoy a lot of people. Like, more than most would expect.

Sheik and Falco are both in weird spots because they're very popular competitive characters, and are pretty much synonymous with Smash, but have gone in poor directions in Ultimate, so nobody really gives them any attention. Specifically, Sheik is currently bad, and Falco has been decloned in a direction no one seems to like. I think Sheik's exclusion will be pretty darn polarizing, with half the community celebrating and the other half being very upset (especially if The Legend of Zelda gets no newcomers again). Falco I think people might be bummed, but OK with, but would end up being one of, if not the most popular veteran DLC request. I don't see a scenario where Falco's abcense is totally forgiven.

Assuming everyone has the same workflow, Jigglypuff doesn't really have any business being on the roster with heavy cuts, however, since it's instead super easy, it's difficult to say they absolutely have to go. There is something to be said about wanting clones that aren't Jigglypuff, but if they throw it in at the end because why not, it's hard to complain about that.

The rest could probably go without much issue. Mr. Game & Watch might be missed due to the impact he's had, but even with that aspect I think he's the least popular of the Smash's hall of fame characters.

 

[Watuna4343]

Figured I'd give my thoughts here as well.

Honestly? This is one of the more agreeable lineups I've seen posted. Over all I like it. Definitely some characters that I think got cut that shouldn't have been, and a few who stuck around or got in that I don't think will, but over all, not bad.

Leaving aside characters I'd be sad to see go but also understand why others would see them as unlikely (Chrom, Lucas, Cloud), the only major disagreements I have are:

- The cuts of R.O.B. and Palutena, who I feel are more safe than a few of the veterans you kept.

- Jigglypuff and a complete Pokémon Trainer being kept over Mewtwo, which I feel is unlikely at best.

- Konami losing all of its characters while Rayman gets added, since I think Rayman is probably the least likely newcomer of your lot.


Besides that I actually quite like the newcomer choices. Waluigi, Sans, and Muddy are the goats. Sidon is an inspired choice. Tom Nook isn't my favorite pick for a money character, but in a scenario where we didn't get Gholdengo he's an excellent choice. Off the Hook gives us actual Splatoon characters that aren't just avatars, so they're great. Meowscarada is fun. Ayumi makes a lot of sense.

Thanks! ROB is a character that perplexes me a bit tbh, since I can see him both as lower priority among the 1st party unique fighters and also as mid-to-high priority, so I guess he could go either way, Ultimately I thought the characters here would be simply prioritized over him but I wouldn't be surprised if ROB ended up as a planned-but-cut character close to getting finished. Palutena though is one I kinda disagree. I understand that she's Sakurai's character basically and that she's popular but there are more popular, unique and/or iconic or bigger characters than her. I do think Sakurai will try not to cut her but in a roster where less than 50 vets return I think Sakurai would struggle a lot to justify keeping her over plenty of other characters, imo she is one of the characters most dependant on the returning roster of the next game. Jigglypuff, yeah is one of the characters that people love to see cut but at this point I'd be shocked if she ended up getting cut. Pokémon Trainer on the other hand being out-priorizied by Mewtwo is... interesting tbh. I think the former is far more unique and represents Pokémon perfectly, not to mention that in Ultimate they revamped the voice lines and added a full female counterpart, showing some actual care to the fighter. I'd bet on Pokemon Trainer over Mewtwo any time of the day personally. Konami losing their characters was moreso as I wrote above a Smash 4/Snake kind of situation where they are simply put not asked back because they can only bring so many characters back. Though I can totally see why Rayman is thought of as unlikely and he might not get in but even as someone as me who is rather harsh on the 3rd parties, I have to acknowledge that every Smash game adds at least 2-3 new 3rd party newcomers

The issue with speculating roster cuts is that whoever gets cut needs to be less popular than everyone you add as newcomers.

As such, it's easy to speculate cuts to 3rd party characters because "muh licensing", when that has yet to ever be an issue for the Smash team or Nintendo.

If the next smash game does make big cuts, I'd hope they stop prioritizing "series vets" that are only really relevant to Smash and nobody is banging the table to keep.

Like, it's time for Jigglypuff to go. I'd rather keep every pokemon on the roster over it. Same with ZSS and Sheik. Cool concepts for what they were originally designed for, but would people really miss them? Falco too. I think before Ultimate cutting Falco would sound like blasphemy, but nowadays he's more known for being an obnoxious cutscene combo character than anything.

If we were to tally all the characters that are (probably) only still around because legacy, I think it would be something like this:
(If in next game: )

Of these, cutting Fox, Ness, or Captain Falcon is unambiguously a bad idea. We've demonstrated that the Ice Climbers will be missed, but won't upend public opinion on their absence. It may have just been the knowledge that they were impossible to add that saved it, but all in all they're probably fine. After his comeback, Roy is likely also in the "will be missed, but not too deeply" camp with the climbers.

While none of the small Links are super popular as characters, I think the absence of both would annoy a lot of people. Like, more than most would expect.

Sheik and Falco are both in weird spots because they're very popular competitive characters, and are pretty much synonymous with Smash, but have gone in poor directions in Ultimate, so nobody really gives them any attention. Specifically, Sheik is currently bad, and Falco has been decloned in a direction no one seems to like. I think Sheik's exclusion will be pretty darn polarizing, with half the community celebrating and the other half being very upset (especially if The Legend of Zelda gets no newcomers again). Falco I think people might be bummed, but OK with, but would end up being one of, if not the most popular veteran DLC request. I don't see a scenario where Falco's abcense is totally forgiven.

Assuming everyone has the same workflow, Jigglypuff doesn't really have any business being on the roster with heavy cuts, however, since it's instead super easy, it's difficult to say they absolutely have to go. There is something to be said about wanting clones that aren't Jigglypuff, but if they throw it in at the end because why not, it's hard to complain about that.

The rest could probably go without much issue. Mr. Game & Watch might be missed due to the impact he's had, but even with that aspect I think he's the least popular of the Smash's hall of fame characters.

I think that people are very biased towards certain characters and see them get cut far too easily than they actually are. And Jigglypuff is the biggest example to that. It seriously would be shocking to cut her and to assume that an OG Smash character getting cut would get no backlash is very naive. And also I have to say - it makes 0 sense to have every other Smash 64 character as untouchable and then have Jigglypuff as 'such an easy cut'. Whether people like it or not, she's much more of a lock than most other characters.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Do you think the direction of echo fighters has de-valued and lessen the depth of clones from how they were from Melee/Brawl?

Spoiler: Late Clone thoughts

I know I'm late, but I spent too much time typing this to not send it. My main problem with the label is the inconsistency... and by that I just mean Ken. Without Ken, the label makes perfect sense; it just separates the characters that are almost palette swaps from the Melee clones/semi-clones/full unique fighters that actually have significant playstyle differences, different physics, etc.

The biggest stretch is Lucina and Chrom, but even then, minor universal hitbox adjustments to their otherwise unchanged moves is still a step below the changed physics of a Dr. Mario/Pichu. Chrom would be a totally believable upper floor for echos. Then we have Ken, pretty much just a Melee clone, and it's like "So what is an echo supposed to be then?"

I would say Dr. Mario diverges more from Mario than Ken from Ryu, but not to the point where giving them two different labels makes sense. So I feel either the other Melee clones should be made echos, or Ken should lose his. Either option works fine for me, but I think it'd make the most sense to separate the clones that have playstyles different from the "alts+" crowd. So my final answer is, Echos are fine, but also include Melee clones independently from them.

I feel like when people cut Mewtwo because he's been cut before it's without remembering that last time that happened he became more requested than Mega Man and was their first priority to add after the already-decided base Smash 4 roster.

Mewtwo is interesting, I feel he's both one of the most undervalued and overvalued vets. I'm sure he's not gonna be dumped as fast as he used to before, and his popularity will boost him compared to Brawl/4, but Pokemon is still very competitive, if not more. Even with the awareness of his fandom, I can't see Mewtwo being any higher than 5th for Pokemon vets.

At minimum, I don't think he's beating Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario or Greninja, the former two for obvious reasons, and the latter two because they also bring large popularity, but also representation for more than just Gen 1. And this is also being generous and assuming they don't do Squirtle/Ivysaur too like many seem to think they would. I suppose then it'd depend on how you'd prioritize a Pokemon vet that's probably hanging around the middle of the Poke vets VS any newcomers/non-Poke vets, but he feels like a very 50/50 character to me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think that people are very biased towards certain characters and see them get cut far too easily than they actually are. And Jigglypuff is the biggest example to that. It seriously would be shocking to cut her and to assume that an OG Smash character getting cut would get no backlash is very naive. And also I have to say - it makes 0 sense to have every other Smash 64 character as untouchable and then have Jigglypuff as 'such an easy cut'. Whether people like it or not, she's much more of a lock than most other characters.

I do agree that Jigglypuff has a lot of fans. Buff the Puff was pretty big, and all it took was the Balloon Pokémon being terrible.

My gripes mostly come from roster building. Turning this:

()

Into something more modest without making it just Gen 1 Pokémon and the newcomer is a huge headache, and Jigglypuff doesn't help at all. To be fair, Pokémon Trainer is the actual problem here, but cutting Pokémon Trainer is not a thing you should do and I will die on that hill until they actually do it for reasons other than 3Ds hardware.

Another thing to note is that Jigglypuff is also in a weird scenario where it may have as many people that actively don't want it that do. I don't really know what that does for public opinion either way.