Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

I think Toad should be removed in her moveset since she isn’t really associated with the character.

Toad should be removed from both of their movesets and replaced with, like, a Parasol shield or something.

Then Toad gets made a Fighter.

 

[BritishGuy54]

What is your opinion on clones and echo fighters? What direction do you want to go to going forward with Smash 6?

Do you think the direction of echo fighters has de-valued and lessen the depth of clones from how they were from Melee/Brawl?

Echo Fighters are likely returning. They’re kind of necessary later into development when you don’t have the dev time for a unique character.

It’s just a matter of which series will get an echo fighter (or two). I’d prioritise series that haven’t gotten echoes/clones yet to get one.

I’d say echo fighters hailing from Splatoon, Xenoblade, and Pikmin might be our most likely first party series to get echoes or clones.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I’d say echo fighters hailing from Splatoon, Xenoblade, and Pikmin might be our most likely first party series to get echoes or clones.

An example for Pikmin is either Louie or Alph. The protagonist for Pikmin 4 would probably be an original character with Oatchi.

I think Pokemon isn’t as easy outside of pre-evolutions or evolutions such as Raichu. Also stuff like Screaming Tail. Some mention Zeraora but the character works more as a Pokemon version of Wolf rather then being a Lucario echo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Raichu wouldn't work due to the wrong bodyshape.

But either way, Echo Fighters were actually decided from the start, which contrasts how clones tend to be figured out last minute. Brawl was the other exception. If they're back, they would most likely be decided from the start, since this is specific to Echo Fighters moreso than just any clone. Which makes sense, since they're far easier to make than regular clones, so it's a lot easier to figure them out during development.

But yeah, Daisy doesn't need much. Getting rid of the Toad stuff is a good start.

 

[Oracle Link]

Toad should be removed from both of their movesets and replaced with, like, a Parasol shield or something.

Then Toad gets made a Fighter.

Toad is like the only Mario Mainline Character thats missing! (Doesnt matter what you or I think about waluigi hes from spinoffs)
Like the only other characters that make a bit sense are Kamek (eventho hes more yoshi) and maybe goomba in smash 7 or so (or as a replacement for pp)



Btw i also wanna ask:
WHICH KIRBY FIGHTERS SHOULD BE IN SMASH 6?
Like take realism or potential sakurai bias out of the equation which kirby characters earned a spot in smash bros at this point?

I would say 2-3 newcomers are justified!
Obviously Bandana Dee and then either of these:
Magolor (important reucuring character)
Morpho/Galacta as meta echo
Elfilin maybe? (As the rep for 3d kirbys first game)
Dark Matter (for all the void related elements ib kirby)

 

[DarthEnderX]

WHICH KIRBY FIGHTERS SHOULD BE IN SMASH 6?

Bandana Waddle Dee
Galacta/Morpho Knight as an Echo

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If they added Galacta Knight or Morpho Knight, do you think they'd receive voice actors?

 

[Opossum]

Toad is like the only Mario Mainline Character thats missing! (Doesnt matter what you or I think about waluigi hes from spinoffs)

Mario Kart sells better than every Nintendo franchise in Smash that isn't named Pokémon, and that includes the "mainline" Mario games for the past like, four or five consoles. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is literally the fifth best selling individual game of all time.

The combined sales of 8 and 8 Deluxe total 75.81 million units. The next highest Mario game is the original Super Mario Bros with 58 million. A massive drop off. Want to know what the third best selling Mario game is? It's Mario Kart Wii with 37.38 million.

Two of the top three best selling Mario games are Mario Kart games. For a great many people, Mario IS Mario Kart. The distinction between "mainline" and "spinoff" genuinely doesn't matter. If anything, it makes the "mainline" titles less important in comparison.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Like the only other characters that make a bit sense are Kamek (eventho hes more yoshi)

This one is a bit weird:

• Kamek seems to only be a named character in the U.S., with Magikoopas worldwide being called Kameks.
  • This doesn't necessarily mean that Kamek the character doesn't exist like that misinformation about Toad, but it does make things weirder.
• Kamek debuted in the Yoshi series, but the Mario spin-offs haven't been too shy about using him either.
• Ever since New Super Mario Bros., he's made on and off appearances in the mainline games.
  • It's a bit questionable, but he might have also appeared in Super Mario Galaxy.
• Currently, he's appearing quite often in the Mario series, having appeared in Mario Party Super Stars, Mario Party Jamboree, Mario Kart Tour, Mario Kart 8, potentially Mario Kart World, Super Mario Bros. Wonder, and in the Super Mario Bros. Movie.
• Meanwhile Yoshi games are joined at the hip with Mario games, and release sporadically.

He definitely has more focus in the Yoshi series, but he's around a lot more in the Mario series, so I think getting the Mario label would make a lot of sense, even if you could get away with the Yoshi label if you wished.

 

[Gengar84]

Toad is like the only Mario Mainline Character thats missing! (Doesnt matter what you or I think about waluigi hes from spinoffs)
Like the only other characters that make a bit sense are Kamek (eventho hes more yoshi) and maybe goomba in smash 7 or so (or as a replacement for pp)



Btw i also wanna ask:
WHICH KIRBY FIGHTERS SHOULD BE IN SMASH 6?
Like take realism or potential sakurai bias out of the equation which kirby characters earned a spot in smash bros at this point?

I would say 2-3 newcomers are justified!
Obviously Bandana Dee and then either of these:
Magolor (important reucuring character)
Morpho/Galacta as meta echo
Elfilin maybe? (As the rep for 3d kirbys first game)
Dark Matter (for all the void related elements ib kirby)

Who I think they SHOULD go with is a different answer from who I WANT them to go with. Realistically, they should go with Bandana Dee since he’s been a playable character in several games now. I’m just not particularly interested in them. The two characters I’d love to see most are Bugzzy and Fecto Elfilis. I’ve just always loved Bugzzy’s design and playstyle. Smash could use more grapplers too. Fecto Elfilis just has a cool and unique design that’s very different from our existing Kirby body shapes. They also have some really cool attacks to pull from.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Who I think they SHOULD go with is a different answer from who I WANT them to go with. Realistically, they should go with Bandana Dee since he’s been a playable character in several games now. I’m just not particularly interested in them. The two characters I’d love to see most are Bugzzy and Fecto Elfilis. I’ve just always loved Bugzzy’s design and playstyle. Smash could use more grapplers too. Fecto Elfilis just has a cool and unique design that’s very different from our existing Kirby body shapes. They also have some really cool attacks to pull from.

Agreed, especially on Fecto Elfilis. He is so cool and I would actually play as him in Smash.

 

[Oracle Link]

Who I think they SHOULD go with is a different answer from who I WANT them to go with. Realistically, they should go with Bandana Dee since he’s been a playable character in several games now. I’m just not particularly interested in them. The two characters I’d love to see most are Bugzzy and Fecto Elfilis. I’ve just always loved Bugzzy’s design and playstyle. Smash could use more grapplers too. Fecto Elfilis just has a cool and unique design that’s very different from our existing Kirby body shapes. They also have some really cool attacks to pull from.

Agreed, especially on Fecto Elfilis. He is so cool and I would actually play as him in Smash.

Funnily enough the hypothetical Elfilin i suggested being turned playable would have some moves from elfilis +his weapon (but in cute obviously) and he would be the post ultimate cup z version so he has parts of forgos soul in him!

The lore would be that he honed his elfilis powers to help kirby!

 

[Gengar84]

I think I just have a different way of viewing things as far as what I’d personally be excited for in Smash. Instead of focusing on merit and who I feel is most deserving, I tend to put more weight on who I think has the most unique design and exciting moveset potential. For story based games, the personality and story has a big impact as well. I think that’s why I tend to favor side characters or villains as a rule. I think they’re typically more interesting in design, tend to have more complex motivations and personalities, and often have the coolest attacks to pull from. The more traditional plucky hero archetype never really appealed to me as much. It makes sense why Smash tends to prioritize those types of characters but I just think it would be cool to get more variety.

 

[Oracle Link]

I think I just have a different way of viewing things as far as what I’d personally be excited for in Smash. Instead of focusing on merit and who I feel is most deserving, I tend to put more weight on who I think has the most unique design and exciting moveset potential. For story based games, the personality and story has a big impact as well. I think that’s why I tend to favor side characters or villains as a rule. I think they’re typically more interesting in design, tend to have more complex motivations and personalities, and often have the coolest attacks to pull from. The more traditional plucky hero archetype never really appealed to me as much. It makes sense why Smash tends to prioritize those types of characters but I just think it would be cool to get more variety.

Granted while i adore main characters and they are often my favourite i have to agree that we need side chars and villains too (especially villains)
One reason why i think too many series make smash newcomers less interesting cause we just get sword heroes that way (not anything wrong with swords in fact 3 of my protags have swords)

And why i think we need a one series Smash/ fighting game for zelda, Mario and co.
Like i as a zelda fan really wanba see some side characters, villains and enemys be playable/fightable!
(Also i realky like coming up with storys in fighters and thats easier in non crossover stuff)
Let me fight as Link from Lar against Octoroks, Bokos and Gohma goshdarnit!
Or heck let me fight as tulin against totk ganondorf!
Let me Zen the f out in a zelda Fighter for peets sake!

 

[Gengar84]

I think this is a very controversial take but I don’t think the main protagonist should always be the default first choice for game representation in Smash, particularly for long running series with rotating casts. If there’s a particularly popular side character or villain that’s more interesting than the protagonist, I think they should at least be taken under consideration. I feel particularly strongly about rotating casts like Fire Emblem. We already have Marth to represent the face of the series and the main lord. It just gets a little boring when the only option we have moving forward is “lord from most recent game”. Especially when said lords don’t have the same fun personalities as other characters. This isn’t exclusively a Fire Emblem thing, I’m just using it as an example. It’s also all just personal opinion and I’m aware that I’m in the minority.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Mario Kart sells better than every Nintendo franchise in Smash that isn't named Pokémon, and that includes the "mainline" Mario games for the past like, four or five consoles. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is literally the fifth best selling individual game of all time.

The combined sales of 8 and 8 Deluxe total 75.81 million units. The next highest Mario game is the original Super Mario Bros with 58 million. A massive drop off. Want to know what the third best selling Mario game is? It's Mario Kart Wii with 37.38 million.

Two of the top three best selling Mario games are Mario Kart games. For a great many people, Mario IS Mario Kart. The distinction between "mainline" and "spinoff" genuinely doesn't matter. If anything, it makes the "mainline" titles less important in comparison.

Which means for many people, he's missing.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think this is a very controversial take but I don’t think the main protagonist should always be the default first choice for game representation in Smash, particularly for long running series with rotating casts. If there’s a particularly popular side character or villain that’s more interesting than the protagonist, I think they should at least be taken under consideration. I feel particularly strongly about rotating casts like Fire Emblem. We already have Marth to represent the face of the series and the main lord. It just gets a little boring when the only option we have moving forward is “lord from most recent game”. Especially when said lords don’t have the same fun personalities as other characters. This isn’t exclusively a Fire Emblem thing, I’m just using it as an example. It’s also all just personal opinion and I’m aware that I’m in the minority.

This might be my personal pet peeve or Don Quixote windmill-moment, but most third party series should have multiple representatives in Smash to cover the side characters and villains over representing more new series. I think side characters and villains add a lot of flavor that is more character-based, rather than based on the flavor of the series itself. Eggman and Tails both show a different side of Sonic than Sonic by himself can, for example. This is also dependent on the amount of reps each series gets though: Min Min might not be the main character of ARMS, but her moveset is designed to bring ARMS to Smash first and foremost, rather than really making use of her character-specific traits.

 

[Gengar84]

This might be my personal pet peeve or Don Quixote windmill-moment, but most third party series should have multiple representatives in Smash to cover the side characters and villains over representing more new series. I think side characters and villains add a lot of flavor that is more character-based, rather than based on the flavor of the series itself. Eggman and Tails both show a different side of Sonic than Sonic by himself can, for example. This is also dependent on the amount of reps each series gets though: Min Min might not be the main character of ARMS, but her moveset is designed to bring ARMS to Smash first and foremost, rather than really making use of her character-specific traits.

I can understand that. While new franchise representation is always exciting to me, it sucks missing out on the villains and side characters as a result. It’s hard to find the right balance. That’s part of the reason I thought of moving in the direction of making Smash a rotating Nintendo vs X series like the Capcom games. That would give us a chance to see more varied characters from each company. The opposing company could shift from game to game so at least half the roster will be fresh every time without the pressure to constantly balloon the overall roster size.

 

[Oracle Link]

This might be my personal pet peeve or Don Quixote windmill-moment, but most third party series should have multiple representatives in Smash to cover the side characters and villains over representing more new series. I think side characters and villains add a lot of flavor that is more character-based, rather than based on the flavor of the series itself. Eggman and Tails both show a different side of Sonic than Sonic by himself can, for example. This is also dependent on the amount of reps each series gets though: Min Min might not be the main character of ARMS, but her moveset is designed to bring ARMS to Smash first and foremost, rather than really making use of her character-specific traits.

Yeah ivthink having 2-3 total reps is almost never too much! Like sonic having Tails or Eggman isnt something i would have anbissue with, or zero and wily or the pacman Ghosts!
For sure a main character (or two in special cases like the two links) isnt bad in the slightest however some extra side chars and villains would be fantastic!

 

[Gengar84]

I think part of what draws me to character choices like Velvet or Shionne for Smash over Lloyd is that I feel they are just a lot more interesting and complex as characters compared to Lloyd. I didn’t really hate Lloyd but he was never really one of my favorite characters. Lloyd, Rex, and Sora just all give off the same vibes to me so it’s less interesting to me if we had all of them. They’re all more traditional plucky, airheaded, but kind hearted kids. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that archetype, I just feel I’ve seen it so many times they start to feel samey for me. Velvet and Shionne just give off a whole different vibe and I loved their stories. So I don’t think it’s necessarily always a “main character is less intersting” thing since both Velvet and Shionne are basically lead characters (though Shionne shares that spot with Alphen who is a bit tropey himself though still cool).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think this is a very controversial take but I don’t think the main protagonist should always be the default first choice for game representation in Smash, particularly for long running series with rotating casts. If there’s a particularly popular side character or villain that’s more interesting than the protagonist, I think they should at least be taken under consideration. I feel particularly strongly about rotating casts like Fire Emblem. We already have Marth to represent the face of the series and the main lord. It just gets a little boring when the only option we have moving forward is “lord from most recent game”. Especially when said lords don’t have the same fun personalities as other characters. This isn’t exclusively a Fire Emblem thing, I’m just using it as an example. It’s also all just personal opinion and I’m aware that I’m in the minority.

I think the main reason behind this is because of the limited scope of each series's representation, and the goal of showing off what makes each game/series unique. With these settings, adding only the character that isn't the player is usually a bad call because the player is what shows off the game's mechanics. For ensemble casts this gets a bit looser because all of the choices are playable, and show off the mechanics regardless, which is how we got Min Min, and a lot of the reason people are fairly comfortable suggesting Chun-Li over Ryu (in a scenario where Ryu wasn't already in at least).

Rotating casts get kinda odd as the importance of those characters drops pretty quick once you leave the main protagonist. Going with Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Byleth makes the most sense as a choice since he's at the game's center. The three house lords also make sense, as they're major players in the story and tend to be the favorites among players. Students like Lysithea make fairly little sense since while they are popular, they aren't quite as popular as the lords, and there's no garuntee that any given player would even have interacted with them. And any given villain is kind of out of the question since they're either not all that important to the story, a massive spoiler to a new game, humongo, or a combination of these things.

Xenoblade Chronicles is a little better since it's cast isn't like, 1 main character, a handful of support characters, and 30 others in your army, but given how the games focus on a couple of characters over other party members, it would be a bit odd for them to not be the picks. Like, say our reps in SSB4 and Ultimate were Riki and Mórag & Brighid, and then they add Tion in the next game. The characters themselves would be dope, but as picks, not having Shulk, Rex and/or Pyra/Mythra, or Noah or Mio would be super weird. I also think that in a world where we had Xenoblade Chronicles characters, but not the main protagonists, the main protagonists would be some of the most vocally requested characters going into each game.

There's also something to be said about Marth and Shulk being kinda bad at being faces of their series because they aren't in most of the games. This is a little bit less of an issue with Shulk, who does keep making appearances as DLC, but Marth has only come back a couple of times, and is really only the series mascot because of Super Smash Bros. For that reason they can't quite just have Marth, and then add whoever from games he's not in. He definitely does open up appearances from other Shadow Dragon duology characters, but not from things like Radiant Dawn or Awakening.

Honestly that might be the way to go for keeping things fresh with the two series. Whenever there hasn't been a new game to advertize for, throw in a supporting character. Like, instead of Alear, throw in Tiki, Caeda, Anna, Tharja with an altered outfit, or Edelgard to shake things up. I dunno if I'd add anything like Riki, Melia, or Nia instead of Noah or Mio quite yet, since Mio kind of already deviates from Shulk and Pyra/Mythra, and we're only 3ish characters in so the need for a shakeup is questionable anyway, but it is an option down the line.

 

[kirbstr]

Toad is like the only Mario Mainline Character thats missing! (Doesnt matter what you or I think about waluigi hes from spinoffs)
Like the only other characters that make a bit sense are Kamek (eventho hes more yoshi) and maybe goomba in smash 7 or so (or as a replacement for pp)



Btw i also wanna ask:
WHICH KIRBY FIGHTERS SHOULD BE IN SMASH 6?
Like take realism or potential sakurai bias out of the equation which kirby characters earned a spot in smash bros at this point?

I would say 2-3 newcomers are justified!
Obviously Bandana Dee and then either of these:
Magolor (important reucuring character)
Morpho/Galacta as meta echo
Elfilin maybe? (As the rep for 3d kirbys first game)
Dark Matter (for all the void related elements ib kirby)

Ngl, my most wanted Kirby character in Smash 6 is a revamped Meta Knight. His current Smash moveset is pretty ass and feels incredibly dated. It was good for 2008, but with how much the character has evolved and in the era of Meta Knight being a playable character in every other Kirby game, it no longer hits the mark. He way too many moves to pull from in both his boss fights and playable appearances for him to still be using Mach Tornado (a move HAL has moved to more of a hero spin like attack), Drill Rush (a move from Amazing Mirror that Meta Knight himself never uses), Dimensional Cape (a smash original), and Shuttle Loop (basically smash original given it no longer works the way it used to and now does in Kirby games).

For actually new characters, Bandana Dee is the obvious one. At this point he feels like the only glaring first party omission from Smash Bros given his relevancy and popularity. If they were to add him I would hope his move set would be a mix between Parasol and Spear rather than just spear to spice him up a bit since I do agree he's not a particularly "wow factor" character.

For characters other than Dee, Magolor is the best choice. He has so much to pull from for a move set in being playable; a boss; and as a supporting character. He also has a very defined personality, is increasingly relevant to the Kirby series even as RtDL starts approaching its 15th anniversary. He is not quite on the level of BanDee, which is why I think if we were to get Magolor we should definitely get BanDee first or at the same time.

I think Morpho Knight or Galacta Knight would be cool, but as full characters and not echo fighters. They have enough move-set potential from their boss fights. Just being echo fighters of Meta Knight (especially current Smash Meta Knight), would just feel meh.

Marx is a **** choice and the only reason I ever see people suggest him is because of "Sakurai Bias", which does not make Marx any better of a choice for a character. I've seen people act like Magolor and Marx are somehow toss up characters in terms of relevancy, popularity, move-set potential, or significance to Kirby. Nothing could be further from the truth. Magolor clears in every instance. Marx works perfectly as a boss, and even if you were to draw from his Star Allies moveset, at that point you are conceding Sakurai Bias to not matter anyways.

Knuckle Joe, Waddle Doo, Elfinn, Dark Matter and most of the other not Magolor or BanDee characters I see suggested are basically in the same camp as Marx. The only reason you would choose any of them before Magolor or BanDee is if you were actively trying to pick characters to add that were not them.

 

[Gengar84]

I think the main reason behind this is because of the limited scope of each series's representation, and the goal of showing off what makes each game/series unique. With these settings, adding only the character that isn't the player is usually a bad call because the player is what shows off the game's mechanics. For ensemble casts this gets a bit looser because all of the choices are playable, and show off the mechanics regardless, which is how we got Min Min, and a lot of the reason people are fairly comfortable suggesting Chun-Li over Ryu (in a scenario where Ryu wasn't already in at least).

Rotating casts get kinda odd as the importance of those characters drops pretty quick once you leave the main protagonist. Going with Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Byleth makes the most sense as a choice since he's at the game's center. The three house lords also make sense, as they're major players in the story and tend to be the favorites among players. Students like Lysithea make fairly little sense since while they are popular, they aren't quite as popular as the lords, and there's no garuntee that any given player would even have interacted with them. And any given villain is kind of out of the question since they're either not all that important to the story, a massive spoiler to a new game, humongo, or a combination of these things.

Xenoblade Chronicles is a little better since it's cast isn't like, 1 main character, a handful of support characters, and 30 others in your army, but given how the games focus on a couple of characters over other party members, it would be a bit odd for them to not be the picks. Like, say our reps in SSB4 and Ultimate were Riki and Mórag & Brighid, and then they add Tion in the next game. The characters themselves would be dope, but as picks, not having Shulk, Rex and/or Pyra/Mythra, or Noah or Mio would be super weird. I also think that in a world where we had Xenoblade Chronicles characters, but not the main protagonists, the main protagonists would be some of the most vocally requested characters going into each game.

There's also something to be said about Marth and Shulk being kinda bad at being faces of their series because they aren't in most of the games. This is a little bit less of an issue with Shulk, who does keep making appearances as DLC, but Marth has only come back a couple of times, and is really only the series mascot because of Super Smash Bros. For that reason they can't quite just have Marth, and then add whoever from games he's not in. He definitely does open up appearances from other Shadow Dragon duology characters, but not from things like Radiant Dawn or Awakening.

Honestly that might be the way to go for keeping things fresh with the two series. Whenever there hasn't been a new game to advertize for, throw in a supporting character. Like, instead of Alear, throw in Tiki, Caeda, Anna, Tharja with an altered outfit, or Edelgard to shake things up. I dunno if I'd add anything like Riki, Melia, or Nia instead of Noah or Mio quite yet, since Mio kind of already deviates from Shulk and Pyra/Mythra, and we're only 3ish characters in so the need for a shakeup is questionable anyway, but it is an option down the line.

Yeah, I can see the logic in that. Maybe it’s more an issue of the protagonists themselves just not being as interesting to me personality wise. They’re typically more of a blank slate that the other characters can play off of, even when they’re not literally silent avatars. So much of the charm from their games come from their supporting cast. Though, that’s not always the case for me. I thought Velvet, Yuri, and Shionne were all very interesting characters who didn’t fall into the same hero trope as most. So maybe the issue is that I’d just like to see lead characters that I find more interesting in general. I have a hard time connecting to avatars and a lot of heroes tend to fall into the same character archetypes that can get kind of old after a while. That’s just me though and I don’t think it’s a majority opinion.

Knuckle Joe, Waddle Doo, Elfinn, Dark Matter and most of the other not Magolor or BanDee characters I see suggested are basically in the same camp as Marx. The only reason you would choose any of them before Magolor or BanDee is if you were actively trying to pick characters to add that were not them.

Or maybe someone would choose those characters because they personally like them more? It’s not always just about being contrarian.

 

[Oracle Link]

Ngl, my most wanted Kirby character in Smash 6 is a revamped Meta Knight. His current Smash moveset is pretty ass and feels incredibly dated. It was good for 2008, but with how much the character has evolved and in the era of Meta Knight being a playable character in every other Kirby game, it no longer hits the mark. He way too many moves to pull from in both his boss fights and playable appearances for him to still be using Mach Tornado (a move HAL has moved to more of a hero spin like attack), Drill Rush (a move from Amazing Mirror that Meta Knight himself never uses), Dimensional Cape (a smash original), and Shuttle Loop (basically smash original given it no longer works the way it used to and now does in Kirby games).

For actually new characters, Bandana Dee is the obvious one. At this point he feels like the only glaring first party omission from Smash Bros given his relevancy and popularity. If they were to add him I would hope his move set would be a mix between Parasol and Spear rather than just spear to spice him up a bit since I do agree he's not a particularly "wow factor" character.

For characters other than Dee, Magolor is the best choice. He has so much to pull from for a move set in being playable; a boss; and as a supporting character. He also has a very defined personality, is increasingly relevant to the Kirby series even as RtDL starts approaching its 15th anniversary. He is not quite on the level of BanDee, which is why I think if we were to get Magolor we should definitely get BanDee first or at the same time.

I think Morpho Knight or Galacta Knight would be cool, but as full characters and not echo fighters. They have enough move-set potential from their boss fights. Just being echo fighters of Meta Knight (especially current Smash Meta Knight), would just feel meh.

Marx is a **** choice and the only reason I ever see people suggest him is because of "Sakurai Bias", which does not make Marx any better of a choice for a character. I've seen people act like Magolor and Marx are somehow toss up characters in terms of relevancy, popularity, move-set potential, or significance to Kirby. Nothing could be further from the truth. Magolor clears in every instance. Marx works perfectly as a boss, and even if you were to draw from his Star Allies moveset, at that point you are conceding Sakurai Bias to not matter anyways.

Knuckle Joe, Waddle Doo, Elfinn, Dark Matter and most of the other not Magolor or BanDee characters I see suggested are basically in the same camp as Marx. The only reason you would choose any of them before Magolor or BanDee is if you were actively trying to pick characters to add that were not them.

I dont agree with the last point as dark matter and elfilin fill diffrent niches while marx is just "magolor but less relevant"

But yeah a better metaknight would be great i dont think they should change mach tornado as the current version is just a copy of links spin attack (because sword is based on that)
But yeah other sword moves like the 3 hit base combo, the diffrent stabs (espicailly up stab as thats one of metas signature moves!)
And stuff like upper caliber (as up b maybe)
Or the giant mach tornado (as his final smash)
Or maybe the dark blue sword beams from fl as they are atleast more meta knight flavored then the new mach tornado!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Maybe it’s more an issue of the protagonists themselves just not being as interesting to me personality wise. They’re typically more of a blank slate that the other characters can play off of, even when they’re not literally silent avatars.

I would say of both series, this is only really true of Corrin, and removing the blank slate part of the allegation, Byleth and Alear*. Robin might be an avatar, but they're treated like a normal character for the most part, and are characterized by their tactical prowess, as well as being kind of a weirdo.

Xenoblade Chronicles pretty much doesn't have this at all (barring Cross) since its protagonists are all active members of their story. Shulk, Pyra/Mythra, Noah, and Mio in particular are even very different protagonists from what's considered normal protagonist tropes, as they're all much quieter. Shulk is a nerd who goes on a revenge quest to avenge a loved one, Pyra/Mythra are godlike beings traumatized by the harm they've caused the world due to their high power, and their motives are pretty firmly rooted in depression, and Noah and Mio are child soldiers that realized that their life is a lie, and try to navigate fighting their loved ones to break the system and save everyone from living pointless lives and dying pointless deaths.


In terms of common protagonist tropes, Rex is very much that plucky/reckless anime protagonist, but the story is very much built on him being that, and subverts the handling of the trope somewhat by forcing him to grow up rather than just using his nieve view of the world to show others the error of their ways.

*Byleth is characterized largely by other characters since he has no dialogue, and Alear has the setting revolve around them much more aggressively than even Corrin and Byleth, who's decisions could take the story in several very different directions, though Alear specifically has a pretty strong characterization on their own.

 

[kirbstr]

I dont agree with the last point as dark matter and elfilin fill diffrent niches while marx is just "magolor but less relevant"

But yeah a better metaknight would be great i dont think they should change mach tornado as the current version is just a copy of links spin attack (because sword is based on that)
But yeah other sword moves like the 3 hit base combo, the diffrent stabs (espicailly up stab as thats one of metas signature moves!)
And stuff like upper caliber (as up b maybe)
Or the giant mach tornado (as his final smash)
Or maybe the dark blue sword beams from fl as they are atleast more meta knight flavored then the new mach tornado!

Personally I would want them to just get rid of Mach tornado all together or make it his final smash like how it works in Meta-Knightmare. Just replace it with a different move like Sword Beam or something.

Bring back gliding (why did they ever remove it? it fits him so well) or give him an up-b that actually lets him fly around.

You could give him a move that summons those massive tornados that move around on the ground since he can do that as a boss in nearly every game.

Let him use some of his Meta-Knightmare abilities like Meta-Quick, Summon Helper, of Heal.

Or maybe someone would choose those characters because they personally like them more? It’s not always just about being contrarian.

There is a certain logic and criteria to the kind of character that gets in to or works in smash, and just choosing random side characters because you like them is a boring way to discuss roster picks unless you justify it beyond yourself.

If you are predicting or wanting characters like Elfillin over more established and popular picks for Smash like BanDee, it is inherently to be a contrarian. Thats not necessarily a bad thing, but you should own it and justify it. I feel like you should understand that as the Gengar for smash guy.

For example, when people were discussing the possibility of a Tekken character in Smash in Ult, most people were in consensus about Heihachi, with contrarian minorities speculating Kazuya or Jin. The contrarians in that case were correct, and possibly for similar reasons that the Smash team chose Kazuya over Heihachi.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I would say of both series, this is only really true of Corrin, and removing the blank slate part of the allegation, Byleth and Alear*. Robin might be an avatar, but they're treated like a normal character for the most part, and are characterized by their tactical prowess, as well as being kind of a weirdo.

Xenoblade Chronicles pretty much doesn't have this at all (barring Cross) since its protagonists are all active members of their story. Shulk, Pyra/Mythra, Noah, and Mio in particular are even very different protagonists from what's considered normal protagonist tropes, as they're all much quieter. Shulk is a nerd who goes on a revenge quest to avenge a loved one, Pyra/Mythra are godlike beings traumatized by the harm they've caused the world due to their high power, and their motives are pretty firmly rooted in depression, and Noah and Mio are child soldiers that realized that their life is a lie, and try to navigate fighting their loved ones to break the system and save everyone from living pointless lives and dying pointless deaths.


In terms of common protagonist tropes, Rex is very much that plucky/reckless anime protagonist, but the story is very much built on him being that, and subverts the handling of the trope somewhat by forcing him to grow up rather than just using his nieve view of the world to show others the error of their ways.

*Byleth is characterized largely by other characters since he has no dialogue, and Alear has the setting revolve around them much more aggressively than even Corrin and Byleth, who's decisions could take the story in several very different directions, though Alear specifically has a pretty strong characterization on their own.

Right but Noah’s Forward Tilt probably won’t be saving everyone from pointless lies

 

[Gengar84]

I would say of both series, this is only really true of Corrin, and removing the blank slate part of the allegation, Byleth and Alear*. Robin might be an avatar, but they're treated like a normal character for the most part, and are characterized by their tactical prowess, as well as being kind of a weirdo.

Xenoblade Chronicles pretty much doesn't have this at all (barring Cross) since its protagonists are all active members of their story. Shulk, Pyra/Mythra, Noah, and Mio in particular are even very different protagonists from what's considered normal protagonist tropes, as they're all much quieter. Shulk is a nerd who goes on a revenge quest to avenge a loved one, Pyra/Mythra are godlike beings traumatized by the harm they've caused the world due to their high power, and their motives are pretty firmly rooted in depression, and Noah and Mio are child soldiers that realized that their life is a lie, and try to navigate fighting their loved ones to break the system and save everyone from living pointless lives and dying pointless deaths.


In terms of common protagonist tropes, Rex is very much that plucky/reckless anime protagonist, but the story is very much built on him being that, and subverts the handling of the trope somewhat by forcing him to grow up rather than just using his nieve view of the world to show others the error of their ways.

*Byleth is characterized largely by other characters since he has no dialogue, and Alear has the setting revolve around them much more aggressively than even Corrin and Byleth, who's decisions could take the story in several very different directions, though Alear specifically has a pretty strong characterization on their own.

Yeah, I’m not trying to single out Fire Emblem or Xenoblade. I think it’s a lot more of a general issue for me in games. I agree that it’s mostly a personal thing. I tend to prefer characters that show off a lot of personality themselves instead of having it told to us through other characters. It’s not really specifically a Byleth thing, just how I feel about silent protagonists in general. I do like plenty of stoic characters too so I don’t think it’s that. There’s just something about Byleth that prevented me from caring much about them as characters even though I loved Three Houses. Not entirely sure what it is. My only guess is that I’m indifferent to their visual design. A really cool looking character can make up for some of my lack of interest in their personality.

Shulk, Elma, Noah, and Mio are all good protagonists, even if they’re not as exciting as some others I love like the Tales ones I mentioned. My only issue is with Rex. And even then, it’s not like he’s objectively bad, he’s just not my type of character. I tend to prefer characters with more complex personalities and struggles. There’s typical cheery anime kid hero archetype is fine for what it is but I don’t typically find them as compelling.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah ivthink having 2-3 total reps is almost never too much!

Franchises should never have more Fighters than they do games.

 

[Will]

Franchises should never have more Fighters than they do games.

DarthEnderX watching Kid Icarus like

 

[chocolatejr9]

Franchises should never have more Fighters than they do games.

Does this apply to specific games? Because I kinda wanna make a joke about how both Final Fantasy reps are from VII...

 

[Gengar84]

I think it’s funny that Darth’s and my most wanted character lists look as close as they do even though we have completely opposite priorities on why we want characters in Smash. Darth puts a ton of importance on legacy and merit where I almost go completely off what I happen to like the most. For me, legacy helps but it’s secondary to my personal affinity for the character.

 

[AreJay25]

Bring back gliding (why did they ever remove it? it fits him so well) or give him an up-b that actually lets him fly around.

The most likely answer for its removal is because it was insanely busted in Brawl and Meta Knight was ironically one of the biggest abusers of it. There's files within Smash 4 indicating that they considered trying to implement it again, but obviously it didn't pan out.

Steve brought it back to some degree, but it's nowhere near as good.

 

[Ivander]

Franchises should never have more Fighters than they do games.

DarthEnderX when Mario gets around 265 characters in Smash Bros/Mario Kart when Mario only has around 256 games:

 

[Will]

The most likely answer for its removal is because it was insanely busted in Brawl and Meta Knight was ironically one of the biggest abusers of it. There's files within Smash 4 indicating that they considered trying to implement it again, but obviously it didn't pan out.

Steve brought it back to some degree, but it's nowhere near as good.

As long as they keep it limited, I’m fine with it returning for characters who could benefit from it. The Pits, Charizard, even today’s nerfed Meta Knight could benefit from it without being broken. Unlimited gliding and abusing cheese that could never be patched out is what made it busted to begin with.

 

[MBRedboy31]

On a side note, in Kirby Fighters 2, a game where Meta Knight’s Shuttle Loop still has the glide, it happens to be OP there too, given that you can use it to infinite people in the upper corners of the screen (plus it is crazy movement in general)

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Does this apply to specific games? Because I kinda wanna make a joke about how both Final Fantasy reps are from VII...

Final Fantasy VII is essentially a franchise on its own with several installments.

 

[kirbstr]

As long as they keep it limited, I’m fine with it returning for characters who could benefit from it. The Pits, Charizard, even today’s nerfed Meta Knight could benefit from it without being broken. Unlimited gliding and abusing cheese that could never be patched out is what made it busted to begin with.

Exactly, in a post-patch/update world I see no reason not to try and re-implement it into the game.

Gliding itself was also never that broken, even with how it was in Brawl. Pit had an incredible recovery even without having to glide. This was true for Meta-Knight as well. Most people seem to remember the clips of MK going blastzone to blastzone under Hyrule Temple, yet it was always his 6 jumps and Shuttle Loop (and not the gliding part of it) that was the broken aspect of his recovery.

Brawl's mechanics also made gliding better than it otherwise would have been in later games due to tripping making ground approaches worse, air camping being so strong against certain characters, and planking on the ledge being so strong.

 

[Oracle Link]

Franchises should never have more Fighters than they do games.

Thats why i said ALMOST!

 

[DarthEnderX]

Does this apply to specific games? Because I kinda wanna make a joke about how both Final Fantasy reps are from VII...

Nah. Just total games in the franchise.

Also, there's more than one FF7 game.