Smash Clone

[vidjogamer]

So over the past few years I've been working towards programming the basic framework for a smash bros clone. Ok, so maybe not really a clone, as it will have to have all different characters to avoid legal issues, but its going to be a smash-inspired fighter.

My goal for the game is pretty simple: Create a fun, competitive fighting game-- borrowing the successful mechanics from the series and tossing the unsuccessful. Nintendo has given us some great games, but they don't seem to care about the people who play and love their games. They release a game and forget about it along with the players who support them. I get it, its business. But I yearn for a different kind of game. A game that is community driven. A development team that is in sync with and listens to the players who play the game they work so hard on. A development team that backs the competitive scene. I want to give us that game. If something is broken in the game we fix it. If we want to add more content, characters, stages, etc. then we do it. I have some pretty big plans for it... Customizable move-sets, online profiles and match statistics, up to 16 players simultaneously, a good tournament mode that does all seeding and match coordination. And most importantly balanced tournament-worthy gameplay. But that all said, I need some help.

I need artists. I am looking for anyone who is talented and interested. We're going to need it all: Concepts, 3D Models, Textures, Animations. Not an artist? Know someone who is? Link them to this thread.

Please email me at veeedjo@gmail.com if you are interested. I'd appreciate it if you could link me to work samples. I really want us to make this the best game we can but I can not do it by myself.

I'd like for this discussion to be a compilation of what people think about this and perhaps even serve as a wish list for the game.

 

[Scidadle]

I hope its more melee than brawl

 

[vidjogamer]

I said competitive didn't I?

 

[Roller]

Lofty goals. If you can deliver, the community would be eternally grateful.

What's your estimation for how long this will take to make? I'm assuming years...

 

[ZodiakLucien]

I might be interested a little down the line. I just learned basic modeling in Maya. I am now learning animation and next term I learn texture and lighting. I go to expression as a game arts and design student

 

[Kaffei]

I can draw but I don't think I'm the right person to help :/

 

[Mew2King]

Guys do keep in mind, that right now, while this is just a small project that he is looking to try to make really big, if you DO help contribute to this project then your name goes into the credits of it, and on a resume, you can always be like, hey I helped create this awesome video game. *then you link them to the game*. I created ____ in it.

Zodiac, if you are interested, you should message Jesse on facebook

facebook.com/vidjo

 

[ZodiakLucien]

Jason its me Lucien lol. I think he saw our FB chat, but I'll send him a message

 

[Tonb3rry]

I'm a programmer, not an artist, but I'd recommend you to use Blender as 3D tool for making 3D models.
I've tried Blender, and i know it got all the functions you'd need to make and animate 3D models. It exports to all 3d formats, and is a open source project. Thus it's free.

All of you who know a little about 3D-modelling and art, should pick this stuff up. There are a lot of tutorials on vimeo.com, and many other sites. I've been successful in making a simple animated character using Blender, and I recommend all 3D modelers to use this tool.

Edit: A short movie made using Blender. All the visual stuff is made using Blender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HomAZcKm3Jo

 

[vidjogamer]

Roller, I think we could have something playable done in a year. Even if its not a full game. All extra features could be updates. Keep in mind this is my estimation not knowing what the resources at hand will be. It mostly depends on the artists. The game would be PC to start and if we have success there would be inevitable ports. Though some features such as over 4 players wouldn't be applicable. I dont want to jump the gun or anything just yet. So I'll let everyone know what I think as things progress.

Lucien, I'll message you on facebook later, I'm getting ready to get to bed. Its 5:37 am here.

Tonb3rry, I'm a huge Blender fan. I plan on using it in my workflow. =)

 

[Mew2King]

Vidjo is already the biggest Blender fan in the world Tonberry. I'm surprised he doesn't have a blender t-shirt yet.

 

[Tonb3rry]

Sounds very promising!
If you need any programmers, I'll gladly help.
I know C/C++, C#, Java and more, and I am a dedicated Melee player. I also program in C++ for a living. I dunno if you have got a team yet, but a project like this will need a lot of people in design, art and programming.

Just putting this out there: I'm here if you need me.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

Hmm.

I've written over a hundred move lists for characters of my own creation for a melee remake/clone over the past five years or so. I grew obsessed with it, and strongly considered searching for people to make it a reality, but it all seemed impossible and too difficult to make happen.

I'm not an artist, not a programmer, which is why those ideas never left wordpad, but there's a ton of information. But all the same if what I say interests you, let me know. You mention creating different characters for this to avoid copyright, well. If you have all the unique characters already then I am probably no use.

But I am a writer first and foremost and my entire purpose in life is the stories I create, I cherish them. In my own "clone", what I'd hoped to do was combine various writing universes (much like Nintendo does in Smash) and take characters from different stories. Ah, the time I've spent on this feels like such a waste, when I should just be writing stories not... game ideas.

Anyway, if any of this sounds interesting, like I said let me know. This is something I've put an extreme amount of time and thought into already.

 

[Mew2King]

^ you should email me that stuff

mew2king@yahoo.com

 

[F8AL]

At first, I was going to lock this thread but after reading the first post, I don't see anything wrong with it. Continue.

(PS: Hi vidjo! I remember watching your Smash vids on YT when I used to play back in the day, haha.)

 

[Aberu]

You should talk to Fiction, great smasher, one day going to be a great programmer, and is working on something competitive at the moment.

 

[Tee ay eye]

this sounds so legit
keeping the game i love alive in spirit

 

[황미영]

Ey guys just remember Skull Girls, it's a fan made thing and look how it is. So if people are serious, people can create something great.

 

[icraq]

i foresee problems.

the smash community is often at odds with it's self in what is acceptable in competitive play. if this is a game tailoring to these types it will always be a work in progress, someone will always break something and someone will whine til it's fixed. it will be too much.

in comparison, look at terraria, if you're familiar. if not, this is how it went down: game started out as fun and broken and had weird stuff to it that made it unique and interesting. then people *****ed and *****ed and the developers kept adding everything people wanted in patches and it became a game like any other community driven game: over-saturated with crap you don't care about, cookie-cutter and boring.

i hate the idea of a fighting game with patches. if you make it, make it and let it be done. i can see doing an open beta for a little bit and taking advice then, but i think you could essentially make a game based off what a community wants just by reading these forums and seeing what people want from smash. if your game is broken and sucks, make a new one and make it better next time.

i just see things differently i guess, and i don't want to sound too much like i'm pissing on your ambitions, i don't really know you or anything about your project besides your little paragraph, just giving my opinion on how i see it. too many games are being sold as works in progress, and while that has an appeal at first, i find i lose interest quickly when changes become too drastic over time.

to nintendo's credit, i think they care about those who love and play their games, i just don't think they care about the 1% that cares about tripping. a strictly fair and competitive game isn't necessarily fun for the masses, nor does it really need to be.

 

[DarkDragoon]

This is definitely the wrong place to be posting if you're looking for a work force.

That being said, you're lucky MacD linked me to this, as I am an artist that works the full pipeline, and would love to be involved with this project if it ever gets off the ground.

So I'll email you.
-DD

 

[EC_Joey]

What have you been coding the framework in?

 

[FerrishTheFish]

i hate the idea of a fighting game with patches. if you make it, make it and let it be done. i can see doing an open beta for a little bit and taking advice then, but i think you could essentially make a game based off what a community wants just by reading these forums and seeing what people want from smash. if your game is broken and sucks, make a new one and make it better next time.

^This. Once you have made the game and it has been out for a while, any complaints/patches/fixes will inevitably be from a very biased point of view and will always have unintended repercussions on other aspects of the game. If you instead make a completely new game, you will be able to add in your fix and be better able to tweak the rest of the game so that it seamlessly meshes in.

Don't get me wrong, I still support your effort 100%, I think you should go forward and make something awesome, just when problems appear, take those complaints and make something completely new that is more awesome.

 

[dmbrandon]

Most popular competitive games in the world, currently:

SC2, LoL, WoW, MvC3, SF4.

All of these are patched, all the time. One can argue the legality of my statement through the latter two, but UMvC was intended to be a series of patches before the earthquake destroyed those plans, and The SF4 series was made into games to decrease cost of DLC content.

League patches their game every few weeks, and is one of the most widely played games on the planet.

Make the game, beta test it, and patch it with minor fixes every two months or so until the game see balance. Just make sure you don't take the words of idiots on what needs fixing. :D

 

[misterbee180]

Count me in.

I will love to help.

My name is Mick and I am both a programmer as well as an artist. I absolutely agree with your definition of how Nintendo treats the games which generate fans for unexpected reasons. Instead of continuing w/ it and moving forward with both the casual and unique features they toss the unique features that made a game great to the side and just keep the casual (or at least try to). And as you say, it's just business and for that we can't really be mad... possibly we can be disappointed which, I am with a few other Nintendo games, most notably double dash.

Feel free to contact me through smashboards and if you decide that you can use my help then we'll exchange better contact information then.

I really that something can be made to work not just for me or you, but for the community at large which deserves games we can count on!

-Misterbee180-

 

[SEXY]

title suggestion:

Super Smash bros. Strike

> i command credit for title idea (just throw my name in credits along the rest)

also i know 2 artist that would love to help, just a matter of if they have free time

 

[DarkDragoon]

also i know 2 artist that would love to help, just a matter of if they have free time

I already applied bro, no need to worry about me. Maybe just ask that other one.

>:[ And I'll be insulted if I'm not one of the two you were thinking of.
-DD

 

[DuckPimp]

i can help with concept art or something

 

[PEEF!]

Vidjo why don't you just join the Project: M team?

 

[DarkDragoon]

Vidjo why don't you just join the Project: M team?

Project M = Awesome and cool, but based entirely around modding Brawl, with tons of limitations with how things can be done.

Vidjo = Wants to make something brand new, which can be marketed to the masses.

I'm going to camp this topic like a hawk, I can already tell.
-DD

 

[PEEF!]

Project M = Awesome and cool, but based entirely around modding Brawl, with tons of limitations with how things can be done.

Vidjo = Wants to make something brand new, which can be marketed to the masses.

I'm going to camp this topic like a hawk, I can already tell.
-DD

The limitations that come with having no source code and no money are far far greater than the limitations of working with Brawl source code. Making a new smash game is something that like a thousand people have tried.

 

[Spire]

I am an artist. Here is my deviant art page (you will find a ton of Zelda fan art): http://spire-iii.deviantart.com/

I am proficient in concept art. I can and will design characters, stages, scenery, and what have you.

Won't post my email here, so PM me if you are interested in what I have to offer.

 

[misterbee180]

I like the link art

 

[Doctor X]

The limitations that come with having no source code and no money are far far greater than the limitations of working with Brawl source code. Making a new smash game is something that like a thousand people have tried.

The problem with Project M, as others have pointed out, is that it invites the attention of Nintendo's legal deparment. If you note a few historical facts about Nintendo's "PR approach" to competitive gamers, you'll realize that this is a very bad thing that quite certainly destroys any hope of Project M becoming a high profile competitive medium. You don't have to be a copyright lawyer to see that.

Did you know that the most recent version of the Wii has no Gamecube functionality whatsoever? It can't play games, use memory cards, or even controllers, so... Even the Brawl community, who are doing absolutely nothing out of the ordinary, can't use the controller the game was designed for on this thing. Did you also know that this thing is being offered at the same price as before, with no indication on the box that anything has changed?

That's exactly how much Nintendo cares about it's competitive players, guys. Let's face some reality here. If this community is going to grow, the game can't have any connection whatsoever to these people.

You tell vidjo he's dreaming too big if he thinks he can make a game from scratch? I'll tell you you're dreaming a lot bigger if you think Nintendo will somehow grow some heart if and when Project M shows up at sponsored, for-profit events like MLG or Evo. It just won't happen. They don't ****ing care about you.

 

[misterbee180]

You tell vidjo he's dreaming too big if he thinks he can make a game from scratch? I'll tell you you're dreaming a lot bigger if you think Nintendo will somehow grow some heart if and when Project M shows up at sponsored, for-profit events like MLG or Evo. It just won't happen. They don't ****ing care about you.

This is the best ending I could have possibly imagined. You must be a writer, and if you're not then you definitely have some hidden talent

 

[hungrybox]

^ you should email me that stuff

mew2king@yahoo.com

Windowlicker is gross as **** ew

 

[DarkDragoon]

The problem with Project M, as others have pointed out, is that it invites the attention of Nintendo's legal deparment. If you note a few historical facts about Nintendo's "PR approach" to competitive gamers, you'll realize that this is a very bad thing that quite certainly destroys any hope of Project M becoming a high profile competitive medium. You don't have to be a copyright lawyer to see that.

Did you know that the most recent version of the Wii has no Gamecube functionality whatsoever? It can't play games, use memory cards, or even controllers, so... Even the Brawl community, who are doing absolutely nothing out of the ordinary, can't use the controller the game was designed for on this thing. Did you also know that this thing is being offered at the same price as before, with no indication on the box that anything has changed?

That's exactly how much Nintendo cares about it's competitive players, guys. Let's face some reality here. If this community is going to grow, the game can't have any connection whatsoever to these people.

You tell vidjo he's dreaming too big if he thinks he can make a game from scratch? I'll tell you you're dreaming a lot bigger if you think Nintendo will somehow grow some heart if and when Project M shows up at sponsored, for-profit events like MLG or Evo. It just won't happen. They don't ****ing care about you.

Plus, making something on his own = good thing to tell potential employers about. Or, if it really takes off in popularity, something that can be used to support you financially.

Can't get that with ProjectM. Not entirely, anyways.

The limitations that come with having no source code and no money are far far greater than the limitations of working with Brawl source code.

But they're not working with the Brawl source. If they had Brawl's source then Nintendo would already have C&D'd them to Hell and back. They're working with memory manipulation of Brawl's un-moddable source, working at a very low level that can't change the hard facts of Brawl's functional design.

For instance: They can't add characters. Or at least they've gotten so close in several years of working at it, but it still isn't perfect. While, if he was making things from scratch, he could just code up X, Y, and Z requirements for character creation and be done with it.

Also, no one says he has to start from scratch. He can easily just get a little kit to work in like Unity or something as a starting point, and build from there.

Making a new smash game is something that like a thousand people have tried.

Right, which is why I'm skeptical of it getting out of planning phases, but MacD assures me that Vidjo is super serious and knows his stuff, so why not give it a shot?

It isn't like if he tries and fails he isn't allowed to help with Project M if he so chooses, and ProjectM isn't exactly hurting for help right now either.

-DD

 

[dualseeker]

I wish I had some talent to help with this project, but I don't ^^;. Although, I'll be supporting whoever is helping with the game from the sidelines ^__^! I wish you guys all the best in making this game, and that your efforts are filled with success! Can't wait to see some news about this in the near future!

Who knows? You guys could be the next big news in the gaming world ^__^.

 

[PEEF!]

DoctorX, you don't have to be a copyright lawyer to know what you think you know, but you might have to be a copyright lawyer to know that you are wrong. I interned with a copyright lawyer this summer.

At the core of copyright law is damage. If there is no damage there is no case. If Project: M requires a brawl disc, then there is no damage to the company. There isn't even potential damage. They arent acting like they are nintendo and selling Brawl (passing off) and they aren't selling the game and acting like they made it (reverse passing off). In fact, they aren't selling anything at all. Because Project: M still requires a brawl disc, Project: M cannot be criminal. Because Project: M isn't selling anything, they cannot be successfully sued in civil court because Nintendo would have to prove damage.

 

[AXE 09]

I said competitive didn't I?

I love this answer

 

[dmbrandon]

DoctorX, you don't have to be a copyright lawyer to know what you think you know, but you might have to be a copyright lawyer to know that you are wrong. I interned with a copyright lawyer this summer.

At the core of copyright law is damage. If there is no damage there is no case. If Project: M requires a brawl disc, then there is no damage to the company. There isn't even potential damage. They arent acting like they are nintendo and selling Brawl (passing off) and they aren't selling the game and acting like they made it (reverse passing off). In fact, they aren't selling anything at all. Because Project: M still requires a brawl disc, Project: M cannot be criminal. Because Project: M isn't selling anything, they cannot be successfully sued in civil court because Nintendo would have to prove damage.

False! If Project M is used at tournaments or on stream, it could be said that the person using the license is using their likenesses and properties for gain.

Little do people realize that you can be horribly sued for hosting a tournament. It's just that companies have little to gain outside of bad press for doing so. In this case, creating a game based off of their intellectual property is grounds for a big time lawsuit.

the more you know.