"SMASH ATTACK" - April 03.-05. '09, Bremen

[J03]

onett, green greens and peach's castle should all be banned, im a fox player, its too easy to abuse the walls

alsoi have been confirmed for this tourney for about 1 month lol. me, coey, kone, VA and zeppo are all getting the same travel there

 

[Kone]

Yeah as mentioned by joe me, joe, va, coey and zeppo are confirmed. Also looking at the british confirmed list jam5 wont going and im doubtful about amcd :/

 

[Yuna]

Could you put me as confirmed? I just need to wait a few weeks to get the money to book the tickets.

 

[Professor Pro]

I would love to go to this tournament so the UK would have another one of their top players at the event but its gay that I can't make it . Good luck UK and get some vidoes up so I know how you lot play against the other European people. Hopefully I get to play most of you Europeans at the European tourn in the UK.

 

[.tea©]

Benny update mal die Liste. =]

 

[°UÇK]

once again, i updated the first post and once again, it is still not really finished.

-.- *sigh*

but its way more acurate right now. go check it


okaj, for the major changes:
- New rulesets
- new schedule
- no foreigners limit
- you only have to pay for the events you are entering + venue charge was lowered 1€ *yay*
- no official fun events like lowtier
- green greens still in as counterpickable stage ZOMGWTFX

I still have to:
- make an AiB topic about this
- add legal stuff that you (and your parents) have to sign
- install online registration alongside with confirmation
- take care about showers
- tell you that i need your real names, adresses and birth dates
...cant read that one
- look for rides from the airport for people who will arrive to late to catch the train
- figure some housing issues
blabla and some more like translating all that into german, confess and justifiy to my community what i did and get **** for it.

@ everybody: i will confirm you asap. you will be able to attend so dont get to exited if this takes a day or two or... .kaj

@Zephy: I think Adam (A-D) will win this... dont ask me why

edit:
i want to give away cash prices for the first 5 winners of melee singles instead of the first 3 but I'm unsure about how to split up. somebody help please? what a "normal" percentages to split up having 5 cash-winners?

 

[Tiersie]

Might I ask why an AiB thread is necessary if there are already too many people on the attending list? Won't an AiB thread only make things worse?
Just interested

 

[°UÇK]

Might I ask why an AiB thread is necessary if there are already too many people on the attending list? Won't an AiB thread only make things worse?
Just interested

snap, youre right. well, i blanked out the fact this could attract more interested, i rather thought of it to be somewhat obligatory since there is a brawl event in this and because of results and attendants who want to connect their results with their accounts but hell no, thank you for preventing 1. potentially more interested getting wind of this 2. me having more work.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If you cut out Brawl doubles I won't come

 

[Vegard]

This is awesome, finally a host who listens and try to make it more appealing and better for everyone =)

(except for the Brawlers ... )

 

[°UÇK]

Gheb, do you prefer doubles over singles or do you mean if there isnt both you wont attend?

 

[Tonb3rry]

I hope these breaks doesn't affect a set who's started, cuz when you've started playing a set, you most likely want to finish it before taking a break.

This looks so much better now. Though I want to add a suggestion:
Use FoD instead of BF as a random stage in Singles. I believe it's a better random stage than BF.

 

[J03]

battlefield is not a random stage. the edges give peach and falcon a hard time. and they give a very large advantage to edgeguarding, especially against the spacies, it is an obvious counterpick stage but its not a neutral!

 

[Samochan]

Eugh, FoD > YS in terms of matchup neutrality and stage interferences. I just happen to have a video where calle w gets owned by some shyguys lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt7_svTpKGM

The cloud is 10x worse when it comes to saving (or messing up) people than shyguys, but shyguys also cause ton of hitlag and affect trajectory (like throws or marth fsmashing and someone sidesteps in time, but shyguys lag him and he hits after the dodge, for example)

The worst that can happen on FoD is peach platform dsmash owning you and that's when you've managed to position yourself under her below a low platform with a tall character and don't shield it. So I really don't understand why YS would get picked instead of FoD if the idea behind these neutrals is to promote the fairest match possible with the possible stage selection. And even if we were to debate FoD's matchup thingies, in the end YS has more stage interference and thusly should be on the cp list instead of FoD (dutch ruleset agrees).

What are you talking J03, I play peach and I hardly have any trouble with the ledges lol. And what spacies lose in recovery they get back with the stage layout, just yesterday watched a video of fuzzyness' marth getting uaired 3 times because fox can use the platforms as stepping stones. And I'm not even going to falco and his combos, if bf was such a lousy stage for falco we wouldn't have seen aldwyn own amsah on that particular stage by 3 stocks, one time occurence. Besides minor disadvantage for 2 characters is definitely not enough to push stage into cp list, especially with the layout that battlefield has is the most basic and "neutral" you find from the game, unlike those funky stages like green greens and weird ones like pokefloats. Stage interference is more of a valid reason and greater character advantages (like onett is for fox), but the only interference battlefield has is ledges which you have control over whether you grab or not (aka do you push against the ledge when you're supposed to grab). It's not random and it's minor and you won't grab it only if you make a mistake. It can also be used strategically by gimping your opponents via pushing them below the stage

 

[Aniolas]

To all smashers who are going to attend to the tournament:

3 days is enough for the events, I think we will have time for Brawl teams aswell.
But it really depends on you.

I have witness to many tournaments when people complain about the host don't following the schedule,
and then when the bracket comes up, and people tell you to play your tournament matches, you still
sit and play friendlies.

If just everyone play their matches when you're supposed to do, the tournament will run smoothly.

Everything depends on you.

 

[Askeflink]

Oh ****, noo! I would really hate to miss melee teams, but my plane arrives an hour after teams is scheduled to start. Is there any hope? ó_ò

Good job tightening the schedule, but if it all comes down to only one tournament, I'm not sure it's worth it. >.<

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, do you prefer doubles over singles or do you mean if there isnt both you wont attend?

There should be both, 3 days are enough for that. Why would a Brawl player want to come anyways if there are two Melee events and you habe to pay twice as much for both of them?
Either make it Melee/Brawl only or make it even...imo

 

[Luma]

well you might start then in the lb, i think that could be done, or you match could be played a little later, depends on how long you will need from the airport to the venue

 

[Tonb3rry]

To all smashers who are going to attend to the tournament:

3 days is enough for the events, I think we will have time for Brawl teams aswell.
But it really depends on you.

I have witness to many tournaments when people complain about the host don't following the schedule,
and then when the bracket comes up, and people tell you to play your tournament matches, you still
sit and play friendlies.

If just everyone play their matches when you're supposed to do, the tournament will run smoothly.

Everything depends on you.

It's sooo true! But the problem is that even when you inform people about this before the tournament, they still continue sitting on their arses and playing friendlies...

Can't people just learn to play their matches once and for all?
I say: put on the 5 minutes rule(if there are TVs available, and you don't play your matches, you'll get forfeited). As there are plenty of breaks, this rule should work just fine. It makes people open their eyes, really. I tried it on my last tournament.

And yeah, with this rule you should have plenty of time for Brawl Teams as well. I couldn't care less about that, though.

 

[°UÇK]

@tonberry: good you mention that. well, melee singles will be interupted by 2 breaks brawl singles by 1, the other brakes are between the events, and yes, you'll have to finish your set before having a break. pamaros stupid rule is aiming for something similar - to much time in between the counterpicks are throwing players off and of course nobody wants this to happen.

Thx aniolas for saying that.
Everybody, just because the schedule doesnt mention it, we probably will have time for brawl teams as well but i wanted to get rid of official events for the sake of not being the host who wasnt able to run the anounced events rather than being the host who was able to run more events than there were anounced.

But I have a question, 4 people so far explicitly told me that they prefer brawl teams over brawl singles. I would like to hear an opinion from you other guys, brawl singles < teams?


@NorwegianLink: I'm very unhappy about delaying the begin further but yes there is hope: Melee teams will start with a round of pools which will take some time and since there are more people who want to attend melee teams we wont start brackets until the teams have arrived and played their matches. Or what luma said.

FoD is not a RANDOM stage, its up for being stage-striked in singles and banned in doubles. What now?


my avatar is annoying me, somehow chuck doesnt fit my mood anymore...

 

[Marc]

The new ruleset is a big improvement over the old one. I agree with Samochan that FoD is better to have than YS, but I can live with it the way things are. It's impossible to make everyone happy and I think you did a decent job, Uck. What you came up with shows that you have a good understanding of what was discussed and are willing to listen.

As for the schedule, I have a few points of criticism. The breaks don't seem very effective, because half an hour is short and breaks are usually meant for people to get food. The one hour lunch break is good, I suggest having at least an hour break at like 6 PM as well. Experience has taught me that things usually slow down in the evening because people want something warm to eat (which takes longer to get), so it seems wise to take that into account. My suggestion is to have two 1 hour breaks: one at noon and one in the evening. Maybe make the evening break 1.5 hours if you have time to spare.

I also strongly suggest you go with Brawl teams instead of singles for several reasons:
1. Teams doesn't take nearly as long as singles. It's half the amount of matches, so it's MUCH easier on the schedule. Chances are there'll be unforeseen delays and you could also do a fun event if you end up having too much time (unlikely).
2. Your audience is more oriented towards Melee. Teams is much more accessible for Melee players and probably more fun as well. I happen to think it's both more fun AND more competitive.
3. You already have a Brawl player saying he'd go for 2 vs 2 and not 1 vs 1...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

But I have a question, 4 people so far explicitly told me that they prefer brawl teams over brawl singles. I would like to hear an opinion from you other guys, brawl singles < teams?

Most people would probably agree that Teams > Singles. I still think it doesn't matter...if you want Brawl players to come just offer both. Whether you offer teams or singles matters little if you turn Brawl players off by offering only one event with a rather poor pot compared to the Melee events who both have better turnouts.

 

[Aniolas]

UCK:
I would like to both have doubles and singles in Brawl, but if I hade to choose, I say doubles.

In the best of all worlds people will play, but we all know that it won't happen.
I think the 5 minutes rule should be put on to, then it's much easier for you
to make people play. (How ****ed up does'nt this sound, the host must tell people to play
tournament matches. Why the **** do people travel to tournaments and don't play?)

If you under the tournament need help with kick stallers *** so they start to play or anything else,
I would gladly help you.

Please Europe, can we for once have a tournament without stall so we have to play all night long to finish
the events, or even won't be able to finish all events?

 

[Luma]

well i already made a ruleset about all that stuff, saying how much time you will have after you match gets called out, how much time you will have per pick (srsly, 3 minutes are way too long if you consider every counterpick that could take place) but uck ignores it like all my other ideas, too bad =D

 

[J03]

The new ruleset is a big improvement over the old one. I agree with Samochan that FoD is better to have than YS, but I can live with it the way things are. It's impossible to make everyone happy and I think you did a decent job, Uck. What you came up with shows that you have a good understanding of what was discussed and are willing to listen.

As for the schedule, I have a few points of criticism. The breaks don't seem very effective, because half an hour is short and breaks are usually meant for people to get food. The one hour lunch break is good, I suggest having at least an hour break at like 6 PM as well. Experience has taught me that things usually slow down in the evening because people want something warm to eat (which takes longer to get), so it seems wise to take that into account. My suggestion is to have two 1 hour breaks: one at noon and one in the evening. Maybe make the evening break 1.5 hours if you have time to spare.

I also strongly suggest you go with Brawl teams instead of singles for several reasons:
1. Teams doesn't take nearly as long as singles. It's half the amount of matches, so it's MUCH easier on the schedule. Chances are there'll be unforeseen delays and you could also do a fun event if you end up having too much time (unlikely).
2. Your audience is more oriented towards Melee. Teams is much more accessible for Melee players and probably more fun as well. I happen to think it's both more fun AND more competitive.
3. You already have a Brawl player saying he'd go for 2 vs 2 and not 1 vs 1...

listen to marc, experience has taught me the same thing. i think too many little breaks will do nothing but dispurt the flow of the tournament. Tryng to pry people away from there precious friendlies can be havoc, i dont think it is wise to have to do this so often, so a possible re-think there.
on the other hand, it might be the best thing to have ever happened lol, so its really up to you if you can be bothered to change it.
eitherway marcs point stands strong

 

[Tonb3rry]

if I had to choose, I say doubles.

^ I second that.

 

[J03]

UCK:
I would like to both have doubles and singles in Brawl, but if I hade to choose, I say doubles.

In the best of all worlds people will play, but we all know that it won't happen.
I think the 5 minutes rule should be put on to, then it's much easier for you
to make people play. (How ****ed up does'nt this sound, the host must tell people to play
tournament matches. Why the **** do people travel to tournaments and don't play?)

If you under the tournament need help with kick stallers *** so they start to play or anything else,
I would gladly help you.

Please Europe, can we for once have a tournament without stall so we have to play all night long to finish
the events, or even won't be able to finish all events?

lol if you want people to stop there friendlies then rip controllers out of ports, simple

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Brawl teams>singles

interested

 

[Vegard]

I'm also up for Brawl teams instead of Brawl singles.
Concerning the time schedule, I got the same problem as Askelink, along with some other norwegians probably.

 

[Askeflink]

Thank god for pools. When does the first tram leave after 19:10? We'll try to hurry.

And it seems like a pretty wide agreement for Brawl teams>singles

The tournament looks quite good now, if you just fix enough TVs.

 

[°UÇK]

There are breaks in between the events since it would be unrealistic to say one event ends i.e. 10:00 o'clock and the next one starts right away the same time. there has to be a short time frame for handling some organisation issues like changing discuss for the events, re-adjust pools (since people now have to tell the orga on spot if they want to participate in a event or not) and other stuff I cant think of right now. Ignoring this would be stupid in regard of good organisation.


The "real" breaks are taking place one at midday (on Saturday and Sunday) and one in the evening. Taking breaks isn’t mandatory but would be with a rule that is limiting the players on when to play tournament matches. I see a problem there, that would mean every attendant has to prepare his/her meal during this time, if I manage to get the showers shower during this time frame, do xyz along with the other ~100 people. Logistic horror even if the pause was 1,5 hours.

If there was a rule, the people misdoing have to be reported to a Pool-supervisor or TO in some fashion anyway. I think if some more people follow anoles behaviour and kick the stallers ***** (or just report them to a TO) this should work just as fine. Feel free to report players "illegally" having friendlies or just so they can be forced to have their sets.

BRAWL:
It’s apparent more people prefer doubles than singles, so most likely this will be the main monetary event for brawl with more priority on it. I was going to get rid of one brawl event but let’s see, I want to have both events too but I have to be realistic about the schedule. Over those 3 days I have about 24 hours +/- 1 hour tolerance-time that can be used for official tournament play. I will have a look in schedule again and do some calculating. I will keep you up to date but I will not be able to do this up until tonight though.


I wrote something about FoD to be up for stage striking, that’s wrong, it’s a counterpick stage... even though BF or YS should be replaced by FoD because of balance it’s very unlikely that starter stages will change. Jeez, guys (and gals) I’m trying really hard to accommodate to your concerns but this is as far as it will get regarding the stages. Imo I have proven now I’m not stubborn but well… just deal with it.


Few pages ago somebody asked how the lockable room will be accessible. The flaw stroke me because there will only be one key for it and I will most likely have it. Though I will hand out the key to TO's (TO’s only) if anybody needs their stuff from the room. I suggest you only place valuables there you wont need ad hoc or for a longer period of time. It would be really disturbing if the room had to be opened every 5 minutes.


Just for the banter, my tag is UÇK (which stands for the KLA). The “Ç” (Alt + 128) is not meant to be 1337 or something, it actually has a meaning to it. You can call me U Cee Kaj as well or go for Benny but please don’t call me Uck… kaj thx.

 

[VilNess]

Ok.



If I buy my tickets next week am I comfirmed. It´s all about confirming if the other finnish smashers are coming

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Brawl teams>singles

interested

Holy ****

after beating Azen and M2K you gonna win this anyways 0_o

BRAWL:
It’s apparent more people prefer doubles than singles, so most likely this will be the main monetary event for brawl with more priority on it. I was going to get rid of one brawl event but let’s see, I want to have both events too but I have to be realistic about the schedule. Over those 3 days I have about 24 hours +/- 1 hour tolerance-time that can be used for official tournament play. I will have a look in schedule again and do some calculating. I will keep you up to date but I will not be able to do this up until tonight though.

If you have some other TO to assist you it should be managable to do 4 events in 3 days. Both team events are possible to do within one day so you still have one day for each single event left. I was at TNOT2 in the netherlands and we did singles and teams within one day....I think it took less than 12 hours and there were about 100 ppl there.
If you can do Brawl singles and Brawl teams within that time it shouldn't be too hard to do both team events in that time as well since Melee Teams doesn't take nearly as long as Brawl singles.

If you manage to finish both team events on friday you'll have saturday and sunday for singles left, which should be enough...if you have somebody with experience to help you it should be perfectly fine.

Either way you should make up your mind about whether you include both Brawl events or not...I don't wanna wait forever to confirm.

 

[Blad01]

Urgh, I can't attend this :/

On week later would have been perfect :'(

 

[Nizro]

I 2nd the brawl teams over singles also(Still won't be able to play teams though)
And how many TVs will be present? (Not that I really care much because I will probably hog a TV and play teams)

Man I want to play now!

 

[Samochan]

On my tournament, I found that a good way to get matches going was that there was someone stand by on the bracket and announced matches. Ofc with such a big tournament, hearing the announcement is gonna be real hard with all the tv's and people (and dreamland music lol). But it could be done somewhat if some match seems to be on hold unneccesarily. I dislike time restraint rules, simply because people have been unneccesarily disqualified over such things because they didn't hear their match being announced and people must have a toilet break/refreshment break between matches if they need. I think a good way to keep account on matches going would be that both/all players tell the bracket manager and then they go and play their match.

Oh and brawl teams > singles.

I'd still like to know what about FoD is unfair or whatever that it's not suitable for random stage over BF or YS. >_> I can live with the random stage selection however.

 

[Retroking2000]

since i dont know about the brawl tourney scene

why do you guys prefer teams > singles

lol just saying ?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

since i dont know about the brawl tourney scene

why do you guys prefer teams > singles

lol just saying ?

Because there isn't the same kind of camping in teams (and not that much) unless somebody planks because he's in a 1 vs 2 situation. Brawl teams are really fun, I can understand people who say that teams > singles. I like both equally and I still think it would be the fairest (and perfectly managable) to have Brawl teams and singles.

 

[Blad01]

Wow strange... I personnally prefer singles over teams oO

But i'm not saying anything anymore, since I won't attend XD

 

[Retroking2000]

Because there isn't the same kind of camping in teams (and not that much) unless somebody planks because he's in a 1 vs 2 situation. Brawl teams are really fun, I can understand people who say that teams > singles. I like both equally and I still think it would be the fairest (and perfectly managable) to have Brawl teams and singles.

since its teams and its faster paced because the activity going back/fourth it kinda resembles that quirkiness of melee competition

i get it now

thanks ;D