Data "Smash Ain't no Joke" - Little Mac Matchup Discussion Thread

[Venks]

In the hands of equally skilled top-level players I do feel Little Mac has an unwinnable match-up against Ness. You can use what ever numbers you like 10-0, 9-1, in the end the only point that needs to be made is that the only realistic way to win is to switch characters. I do have limited experience as I haven't played many Ness players. The bulk of them I destroy rather easily with Little Mac, but not to be mean they aren't exactly high-level players. I did get a lot of playtime against Australia's best Ness player and she utterly destroys me. With mind games and experience on my side I usually found myself winning 1 out of 10 games against her. She's an absolutely amazing player don't get me wrong, but we both agreed it was just the matchup.

Melbourne Australia's current top performing player is a Little Mac main. Though everyone is completely aware that he can only win tournaments if he luckily doesn't face this Ness player in bracket. Despite him being a much more experienced player he does consistently lose against her. And it's not even close.

If anyone has positive experiences in this match-up I would love to see and learn from it. Though thankfully there are no good Ness players in the region I currently play in. My problems are just Sheiks and Sonics. Any advice for those matchups would be appreciated as well.

 

[PK_Knee]

A good way to counter Sonic is to take your time attacking him, and wait until he is wide open.

 

[PHYTO-1]

A good way to counter Sonic is to take your time attacking him, and wait until he is wide open.

if a sonic is leaving himself wide open then he's not a good player. they know mac has little to no options against them so they should just tack on the pressure.

If sonic is on the ground , he is spinning. Sure you can try to auto jab them , but they can just mix it up: fully charged spins, aerial out of spin.

If sonic is not on the ground, then he is in the air. If sonic is in the air then ****. Sonic's in the air. You're gonna have a hard time trying to catch his landing.

You can only win if the sonic doesn't spam spins.

 

[meleebrawler]

if a sonic is leaving himself wide open then he's not a good player. they know mac has little to no options against them so they should just tack on the pressure.

If sonic is on the ground , he is spinning. Sure you can try to auto jab them , but they can just mix it up: fully charged spins, aerial out of spin.

If sonic is not on the ground, then he is in the air. If sonic is in the air then ****. Sonic's in the air. You're gonna have a hard time trying to catch his landing.

You can only win if the sonic doesn't spam spins.

Catching Sonic's landing is one of the easiest things to do as Little Mac, unless there's Smashville platforms.
Sonic's landing moves are not very good and Little Mac has no trouble keeping up with a Sonic in the air.

So what if they mix up to avoid auto-jabs while spinning? They take no commitment whatsoever so Mac can just stop
immediately and see what Sonic does next. Fully charged spins are a big commitment for Sonic since he can no longer
cancel by shielding. The mere existence of Mac's jab prevents Sonic from ever simply rolling straight at him and forces
Sonic to use other, less rewarding means of getting in.

The hardest Sonics to beat are the ones that DON'T spin all the time and actually use the fastest ground speed
he has to avoid attacks, mixup and land punishes no one else could.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You're a bunch of babies. I lived in a time where Brawl Ganondorf mains had their matchup chart as something like "7-3? Totally doable!" I'm sure you're trying, but it doesn't look like it when Ness appears as 9-1 in your head.

Gonna list some of the things worth noting for Mac vs. Ness in terms of what we should be making the most of:

Well-spaced Forward-B outranges F-Air. Forward-B in general also jumps over Dash Attack and any Ness grab (and goes through them on start-up thanks to its invincibility). A clean Ness N-Air beats Forward-B if he's coming down, but you could move forward with a tilt or Smash in that scenario if you expect it.

You can't poke Ness's shield with a tilt if he's running at you because the momentum from the run will allow him to shieldgrab you even if you're well-spaced with it. However, crossing up Ness's shield with Forward-B and hitting him on the opposite side makes it excessively difficult for him to punish you; if he drops his shield afterward and then comes toward you, he literally cannot reach you in time for a punish.

Well-spaced D-Tilt cannot be shieldgrabbed if Ness isn't running toward you in advance (well, that goes for every character, but it's more relevant here because we can't poke his run -> shield with tilts), and a reflexive shieldgrab against our U-Tilt won't work, either.

Because of Ness's slow-moving mid-air jump, intercepting him is a little easier than normal; you can double-jump airdodge in advance and react to his response; whether he does an aerial or an airdodge, you'll have frame advantage and can generally tag him with F-Air, Up-B, or aerial Forward-B.

You can cancel PKT1 by hitting it with an attack; it doesn't appear to have significant disjoint outside of the tail. Your quick N-Air and D-Air do well with that.

If you can manage to hit him with N-Air offstage, the slow mid-air jump and Up-B necessitates his use of N-Air to get Mac off of him, which can be detrimental to his recovery. Also, as I said in an earlier post, you can Down-B against a PKT2 recovery and KO Ness at as early as 20%.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

You're a bunch of babies. I lived in a time where Brawl Ganondorf mains had their matchup chart as something like "7-3? Totally doable!" I'm sure you're trying, but it doesn't look like it when Ness appears as 9-1 in your head.

Gonna list some of the things worth noting for Mac vs. Ness in terms of what we should be making the most of:

Well-spaced Forward-B outranges F-Air. Forward-B in general also jumps over Dash Attack and any Ness grab (and goes through them on start-up thanks to its invincibility). A clean Ness N-Air beats Forward-B if he's coming down, but you could move forward with a tilt or Smash in that scenario if you expect it.

You can't poke Ness's shield with a tilt if he's running at you because the momentum from the run will allow him to shieldgrab you even if you're well-spaced with it. However, crossing up Ness's shield with Forward-B and hitting him on the opposite side makes it excessively difficult for him to punish you; if he drops his shield afterward and then comes toward you, he literally cannot reach you in time for a punish.

Well-spaced D-Tilt cannot be shieldgrabbed if Ness isn't running toward you in advance (well, that goes for every character, but it's more relevant here because we can't poke his run -> shield with tilts), and a reflexive shieldgrab against our U-Tilt won't work, either.

Because of Ness's slow-moving mid-air jump, intercepting him is a little easier than normal; you can double-jump airdodge in advance and react to his response; whether he does an aerial or an airdodge, you'll have frame advantage and can generally tag him with F-Air, Up-B, or aerial Forward-B.

You can cancel PKT1 by hitting it with an attack; it doesn't appear to have significant disjoint outside of the tail. Your quick N-Air and D-Air do well with that.

If you can manage to hit him with N-Air offstage, the slow mid-air jump and Up-B necessitates his use of N-Air to get Mac off of him, which can be detrimental to his recovery. Also, as I said in an earlier post, you can Down-B against a PKT2 recovery and KO Ness at as early as 20%.

I say lil mac has more potential then any mid tier in brawl... Concerning his potential placings in tournaments.

 

[inconspikuous]

You're a bunch of babies. I lived in a time where Brawl Ganondorf mains had their matchup chart as something like "7-3? Totally doable!" I'm sure you're trying, but it doesn't look like it when Ness appears as 9-1 in your head.

Gonna list some of the things worth noting for Mac vs. Ness in terms of what we should be making the most of:

Well-spaced Forward-B outranges F-Air. Forward-B in general also jumps over Dash Attack and any Ness grab (and goes through them on start-up thanks to its invincibility). A clean Ness N-Air beats Forward-B if he's coming down, but you could move forward with a tilt or Smash in that scenario if you expect it.

You can't poke Ness's shield with a tilt if he's running at you because the momentum from the run will allow him to shieldgrab you even if you're well-spaced with it. However, crossing up Ness's shield with Forward-B and hitting him on the opposite side makes it excessively difficult for him to punish you; if he drops his shield afterward and then comes toward you, he literally cannot reach you in time for a punish.

Well-spaced D-Tilt cannot be shieldgrabbed if Ness isn't running toward you in advance (well, that goes for every character, but it's more relevant here because we can't poke his run -> shield with tilts), and a reflexive shieldgrab against our U-Tilt won't work, either.

Because of Ness's slow-moving mid-air jump, intercepting him is a little easier than normal; you can double-jump airdodge in advance and react to his response; whether he does an aerial or an airdodge, you'll have frame advantage and can generally tag him with F-Air, Up-B, or aerial Forward-B.

You can cancel PKT1 by hitting it with an attack; it doesn't appear to have significant disjoint outside of the tail. Your quick N-Air and D-Air do well with that.

If you can manage to hit him with N-Air offstage, the slow mid-air jump and Up-B necessitates his use of N-Air to get Mac off of him, which can be detrimental to his recovery. Also, as I said in an earlier post, you can Down-B against a PKT2 recovery and KO Ness at as early as 20%.

this is more of the type of info i was expecting to find in this thread. what i'd like to know is the best/quickest way to DI/SDI out of the fair string and the best way to get out of PKfire.

in practice, i've been DI'ing down and towards when caught in the fair string, and i've been mashing sideB or upB to get out of PKfire (upB usually works well if they like to run in).

 

[PHYTO-1]

Catching Sonic's landing is one of the easiest things to do as Little Mac, unless there's Smashville platforms.
Sonic's landing moves are not very good and Little Mac has no trouble keeping up with a Sonic in the air.

So what if they mix up to avoid auto-jabs while spinning? They take no commitment whatsoever so Mac can just stop
immediately and see what Sonic does next. Fully charged spins are a big commitment for Sonic since he can no longer
cancel by shielding. The mere existence of Mac's jab prevents Sonic from ever simply rolling straight at him and forces
Sonic to use other, less rewarding means of getting in.

The hardest Sonics to beat are the ones that DON'T spin all the time and actually use the fastest ground speed
he has to avoid attacks, mixup and land punishes no one else could.

I have had the exact opposite experience with Sonics. If theyre spinning all day , I have a hard time. If they're running in trying to grab, aerials etc. minimal spinning , then its easy for me.

 

[Venks]

Was wondering if anyone has any advice for recovering against Sonic. Against most characters I almost always recover low with Rising Uppercut, because my opponent has to commit to going off stage for a dAir or bAir stage spike to stop me. So if their timing or positioning is off I'm able to get on stage and attempt to punish their option from ledge as they return.
But Sonic seems to hit underneath the stage much like Little Mac does with his own down smash. In LM dittos it's not a big deal because can both gimp each other rather easily, but against Sonic only he has a real chance to gimp you. Rather easily actually.

If I recover high with Jolt Haymaker I'll just be shield grabbed and thrown back off stage, if I recover level with the ledge with Jolt Haymaker Sonic can down smash it. If we both hit each other he takes damage and I lose my stock. And well recovering from below seems impossible because of how low Sonic's down smash reaches through stages. LM's Rising Uppercut doesn't sweet spot so at best you can space it perfectly so the move ends just before your hand reaches the ledge. But again Sonic can still reach that with down smash and just has to time it.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Well, in the video example you have there, it looks like you should be able to tech the D-Smash if you're "behind" Sonic.

 

[Venks]

Well, in the video example you have there, it looks like you should be able to tech the D-Smash if you're "behind" Sonic.

Usually Sonic's down smash sends me away from the stage rather than into it. I'm looking to avoid getting hit.

 

[PHYTO-1]

what to do against olimars? i rarely get to fight any, but when i do its an uphill battle.

turtle style gets shutdown by the residual damage from pikmin

rushdown gets me grabbed. oli's grab is too good. its very quick and harder to punish for a tether grab.
his throws combo into aerials netting him free damage.

 

[inconspikuous]

idk about sonic. i've never faced one that can consistently dsmash my recovery like mac does (once that becomes well known, the sonic matchup is going to get a lot harder), but even if we figure that out, sonic just seems to have a lot of other options to keep mac from recovering. spring gimps are so hype. lol.

as for oli, i find that jabs work really well for whatever reason. maybe spotdodge>jabs could get you 'in'. haven't faced a good one in a while, but i just remember his little antenna thing bouncing around a lot cuz i was catching the rapid jab often. i'm probably facing more scrubby olimars on FG, but i had a lot of MU experience against oli in brawl (i know, it's different), so i don't find it too strange to have to play this weird zoning style against him. also, if oli is offstage and recovering low, that's a free off-stage sideB-back-to-ledgegrab potential stage spike (same goes for DHD, rosa, pit, anyone whose upB doesn't have a hitbox).

 

[Renegade TX2000]

what strategies do you guys have against sheik?

 

[inconspikuous]

repost:

...but afaik sheik>mac. some points that i've come across:

1. mac can nair out of sheik's ftilt strings.
2. not ideal, but mac should opt for the more 'risky' usmash when facing a recovering sheik. it will catch bouncing fish a lot better than dsmash.
3. uptilted fsmash true combos into ko punch at 0%. abuse the super armour on a misspaced fair/ftilt.
4. spotdodge bouncing fish onstage. if you're not getting gimped, this will probably be the kill move that sheik will be fishing for.
5. from the sheik boards, DI up+into sheik to avoid sheik's fthrow>bouncing fish string.
6. pivot uptilted fsmashes work well against a committed sheik fair.
7. if you get stuck in a fair string, don't use your second jump.
8. never take sheik to smashville. the moving platform will carry you all the way to the blastzone on fair strings.
9. i think perfect pivot reverse utilts could be useful to continue mac strings because sheik is a fast faller, but i can't pull them off.
10. learn a top tier to counter sheik and play that character instead. i suggest mii brawler. similar style, except with good recovery & aerials...

 

[MintyBreeze]

In this thread, I've found R.O.B to be extremely underrepresented, which isn't a good thing. In my opinion, R.O.B has the tools at his disposal to very quickly limit Mac's options. The robot may not be a common sight, or a fight, but I feel like he's a tough enough MU to warrant a discussion.

 

[inconspikuous]

In this thread, I've found R.O.B to be extremely underrepresented, which isn't a good thing. In my opinion, R.O.B has the tools at his disposal to very quickly limit Mac's options. The robot may not be a common sight, or a fight, but I feel like he's a tough enough MU to warrant a discussion.

i can't find my previous post about the ROB MU so i guess i'll just repost my thoughts about it again here. i used to think rob was one of mac's hardest matchups. rob's zoning seemed unpunishable, with autocancel nairs and spotdodge>dsmash and beep boop and other jank to keep mac out. but i've been finding a lot of success by not shielding the gyro. keep it in play. try to grab it and throw it up. don't throw it at rob because he can just shield it or let it fly off stage and make a new one. by throwing it in the air, rob can't make a new one. so you're only dealing with his laser, which is easily avoided/shielded (punished with sideB if you've got the read) and he can't do it more than once every couple seconds, so you're not getting camped out by both the gyro and the laser. makes the MU a whole lot easier. plus, the gyro is 'mac's' when you throw it, so it can hit rob on the way down or save you from being combo'd. it's amazing how much changes with just the gyro being 'mac's'.

rob also does not have a real hitbox while recovering with his upB. of course you have to be careful about him canceling his upB into an aerial attack, but at the right times times you can catch a recovering rob with a run-off sideB-back-to-the-ledge for free damage at worst, or a stage spike at best.

and yeah you can't forget about your superarmor. uptilted fsmash and upsmash can punish many of the aerials rob throws out as long as you space it correctly, and since rob is so heavy, these can lead to even bigger punishes on an airdodge follow-up. it's not a cakewalk, by any means, but try implementing some of these things next time you face a rob. might feel a little better.

 

[MintyBreeze]

No, no, I'm not asking for advice about R.O.B. X3 I'm actually from the R.O.B boards, specifically the MU thread section. It's just that I think having R.O.B also be realized as a fair threat would be useful, because lots of LMs I see online can't seem to get around him, although that happens with many other characters too. We actually do have a particular thread for this MU detailing strategies against him.

http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-b-matchup-analysis-21-little-mac.403443/

 

[inconspikuous]

No, no, I'm not asking for advice about R.O.B. X3 I'm actually from the R.O.B boards, specifically the MU thread section. It's just that I think having R.O.B also be realized as a fair threat would be useful, because lots of LMs I see online can't seem to get around him, although that happens with many other characters too. We actually do have a particular thread for this MU detailing strategies against him.

http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-b-matchup-analysis-21-little-mac.403443/

LOL. sorry i jumped the gun there hahaha. didn't realize you were from the rob boards. the stuff i said still stands, but yeah i guess what you were saying was that mac nation needs to step up and figure out better ways to fight rob? or at least respect him more as a character because, in your experience, rob>mac? gotcha. i mean, like i said, he's a tough character for sure.

...but to be fair, i think everyone with a throw is a threat to mac... so i mean, rob can get in line. lol.

 

[MintyBreeze]

Exactly. I mean, R.O.B might not be the most common sight at all, but I think he's a particularly pressing MU against LM. I feel like the focus shouldn't be on just a few characters, it should also be on the ones who you might not expect to see. Little Mac seems like a cool character, it's just that he often gets the short end of the stick.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Greninjas running grab beats our rapid jab. He's the only character to my knowledge that can just WIN by doing a dash grab on lil mac.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

At Frame 9, his Dash Grab is rather good; it's disjointed because of the large water ring, but saying that he beats Mac because of that seems shortsighted, since Mac has lots of excellent tools to avoid it and Greninja finds it difficult to follow up in the air for significant damage.

EDIT: Are there any characters that are purported to beat our recovery with an on-stage attack? I'm not sure that there are.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

At Frame 9, his Dash Grab is rather good; it's disjointed because of the large water ring, but saying that he beats Mac because of that seems shortsighted, since Mac has lots of excellent tools to avoid it and Greninja finds it difficult to follow up in the air for significant damage.

EDIT: Are there any characters that are purported to beat our recovery with an on-stage attack? I'm not sure that there are.

I know it just seems he makes me fight outside my comfort zone. Usually when someone tries and dash grab I'm very good at holding the rapid jab button and stopping short from doing the rapid jab but just either getting a jab or the 2nd version of jab to stop them in their tracks so even if they do shield their grab whiffs...

Also Greninjas up B is great for gimping mac so I just think that combined with throw combos, good throw against mac, and the gimping ability will give mac some nightmares.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I come here a bit in despair, but... Has Shulk been discussed? I rarely get 2-stocked as easily as when I fight Shulk.
Does anyone have any advice? That.... dang... nair. And with his JUMP art, he can take all the necessary risks to make sure he gimps me every single time.

Ftilts and the ocassional Side+B are the only things I can even scratch him with.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

i'm confident to say lil mac beats ryu. Ryu struggles too much with lil macs jab and ftilt it really shuts him down. If he blocks ftilt he's too slow to punish with dash attack, dash grab or Tatsu. Only way for ryu to punish is for him to perfect shield the last hit of ftilt which is insanely hard to do.

 

[Champ Gold]

Has anyone have any thoughts on the Lucas matchup.

I give Roy the same situation I give /

 

[Moydow]

Hello there, title challengers! Over at the boards, we're just starting discussion on the matchup. Any input from you guys would be much appreciated! Let's have a good, clean fight.

 

[CBO0tz]

When I watch good Little Macs play, I can't help but feel like there's a lot of instances where countering would've been a better option than what they usually do.

Mind you, I don't play him right now, but I'm interested in taking him on as a possible secondary. Is Counter good?

 

[MintyBreeze]

When I watch good Little Macs play, I can't help but feel like there's a lot of instances where countering would've been a better option than what they usually do.
Mind you, I don't play him right now, but I'm interested in taking him on as a possible secondary. Is Counter good?

Well, I honestly think it depends on the situation... While I've only been getting into Mac myself for a little while now, his smash attacks help at soaking up damage that otherwise you just couldn't take. Sometimes, it's too risky to try and counter a smash attack or something.
When I play as Charizard against characters with counters? I just wait for them to do so and F-Smash them into oblivion. With Little Mac, if you fail a counter, you're more open then if you didn't even use it, most of the time.

That being said, it does have its usages, like in the air, or to punish moves that you know your enemy has consistently thrown out in the same situation. If a Captain Falcon kept dash attacking me when I got back on the ledge every time, for instance, I'd know I'd have a fairly good chance at countering it and reversing it back on him. If you positively know you can get a counter off, go for it, because it hurts them without hurting you.

If you want to take him in as a secondary, I'd be willing to play against you.

 

[Ghidorah14]

When I watch good Little Macs play, I can't help but feel like there's a lot of instances where countering would've been a better option than what they usually do.

Mind you, I don't play him right now, but I'm interested in taking him on as a possible secondary. Is Counter good?

The decision to counter or not to counter is like walking a tightrope, but when you're LM, you really cant afford to eat a huge punish, because it could mean a stock. Counters can be really easy to bait out, too. As dedede, I've been able to charge an fmash, wait for the counter, and then boom, there's goes their stock. Usually, I only attempt this when they're cornered at the ledge, since dedede's fmash has a pretty good reach, and if they roll into me, they'll still get hit. When people see a big attack like that coming, they tend to panic. For certain characters, their counter is their panic button.

LM's counter is best saved for really obvious and telegraphed moves, or forcing overly aggressive players to back off. I also do not recommend attempting to counter when returning to the stage. Depending on the situation, you might either be stalled by the animation long enough so that upB wont reach the ledge, or the other player will wait for the counter and gimp you when you're vulnerable. Trying to counter to get back on-stage is a huge commitment that you dont need to make. Simply air dodging is the safer option.

 

[MintyBreeze]

Hmmmm... If I'm going to be honest, this thread looks really inefficient at discussing match-ups. Maybe something new and fresh is in order.

 

[LCC Son-in-Law]

Hmmmm... If I'm going to be honest, this thread looks really inefficient at discussing match-ups. Maybe something new and fresh is in order.

You are correct. We do need to get back onto a routine of regular matchup discussion. I will be getting on that asap.

 

[MintyBreeze]

What I'd recommend is taking requests for particularly difficult match-ups and making specific threads just for people to talk about it. Not sure which ones would be requested, since I just started playing Little Mac a bit ago, but it'd help, right?
There could be links to those discussions on the first post of this thread, too, so it'd be easy to access. Also, hello fellow Kentuckian.

 

[CHOVI]

IDK but we NEED to discuss the Sheik matchup and come up with some good strategies.

 

[inconspikuous]

IDK but we NEED to discuss the Sheik matchup and come up with some good strategies.

agreed. @ LCC Son-in-Law if we start doing mac MUs organized by character like other boards, i suggest we start with sheik.

 

[MintyBreeze]

You could make a main thread/archive, and have branching threads linked inside of it that have discussions of individual match-ups. Maybe put summaries in the archive thread for people who are just skimming for information.

 

[Funkermonster]

What do you guys think of the matchup? At first I thought it'd obviously be in favor of Weegee, but then one of his mains told me this:

Yeah, I think Mac beats Luigi 60:40 and no more than that. Super armor smashes wreck Luigi so hard as an upclose fighter And you cannot nair out of his jab like you can Falcon's. Mac can also punish for whiff fireballs or simply side b over them. Luigi does Gimp Mac like anyone else, but yeah. Basically Mac's close up eats Luigi alive so it makes it rough. A doable matchup though. Not amongst the absolute worst.

I also hear your smash attacks are safe against him on shield considering how far he gets pushed back with his high traction and Mac is arguably the best one at exploiting his traction weakness.

Also not as important, but what do you guys think of going against and as well?

For Pac-Man, a lot of us consider it heavily in our favor because of our trampoline shenanigans, but I'd love to hear what you guys think of it since Mac is a fun character to play (even though I don't main him, that's why I'm here XD)

With Palutena, I heard some guy say she might be one of his worse MUs, but I fail to see how in any way without customs.

 

[MintyBreeze]

Well, forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Luigi have wonderful aerial follow-ups on his grabs? Which Mac is weak to in the first place.. I wonder, do Mac's smashes have priority over his Tornado, and if so, maybe D-Smash could bust him out of it?

I've heard that Luigi is one of Mac's worst match-ups because he can string f-airs and gain stage control as he pushes Mac back. Maybe Luigi's traction would make it harder for him to grab us, but still, it seems like he would have an easy time with Mac after that.

 

[CHOVI]

What do you guys think of the matchup? At first I thought it'd obviously be in favor of Weegee, but then one of his mains told me this:
Yeah, I think Mac beats Luigi 60:40 and no more than that. Super armor smashes wreck Luigi so hard as an upclose fighter And you cannot nair out of his jab like you can Falcon's. Mac can also punish for whiff fireballs or simply side b over them. Luigi does Gimp Mac like anyone else, but yeah. Basically Mac's close up eats Luigi alive so it makes it rough. A doable matchup though. Not amongst the absolute worst.

I also hear your smash attacks are safe against him on shield considering how far he gets pushed back with his high traction and Mac is arguably the best one at exploiting his traction weakness.

Also not as important, but what do you guys think of going against and as well?

For Pac-Man, a lot of us consider it heavily in our favor because of our trampoline shenanigans, but I'd love to hear what you guys think of it since Mac is a fun character to play (even though I don't main him, that's why I'm here XD)

With Palutena, I heard some guy say she might be one of his worse MUs, but I fail to see how in any way without customs.

I'd say Palutena is in our favor. Slow character, crappy projectile, useless counter, not many air combos, not great gimp game. Yeah, I fail to see how she would beat us.

 

[LCC Son-in-Law]

What I'd recommend is taking requests for particularly difficult match-ups and making specific threads just for people to talk about it.

You could make a main thread/archive, and have branching threads linked inside of it that have discussions of individual match-ups. Maybe put summaries in the archive thread for people who are just skimming for information.

I rather like your idea, and I think it would be the best route to go with for this. Thank you for the suggestion! I'm on staff for a rather large tournament tomorrow that will have me busy from morning to morning, so I'm unable to start it up tomorrow unfortunately =/. I will be getting on this either Sunday afternoon or Monday. I will also go ahead and start with shiek as requested, since she is a solid place to start.

Also, hello as well Kentuckian .