Smash 64 Speed running Discussion

[Sangoku]

^2013, when maltfox makes a console comeback.

 

[KnitePhox]

So my adapter can easily be configured to play back a emulator movie which is nothing but controller state per frame information. We could make a TAS, then play back the TAS on console. You might as well give me the 1st place prize now

Edit: And who needs more than 1 life to beat normal mode?

cant accurately playback on console or emu, imo

polygon spawn order?

 

[Karajan]

cant accurately playback on console or emu, imo
polygon spawn order?

RNG in n64 is pretty bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFBGWrGT1E8

Also,
http://tasvideos.org/Movies-Verified.html

And if it is a problem just tas up till you get to desync.

 

[Crusader8389]

Also, allies and items are also RNG. No way to turn items off without cheats, I'm pretty sure. Of course if you do it fast enough, items shouldn't be a problem, but dk allies and polygon always will be. Not sure if mario allies will ever be taken out of the picture, but it seems feasible.

Not too worried about people making fake runs, because it would be hard for them to just show one decent run ever and not show any progress or anything. Also, the smash community tends to be pretty chill, and I doubt anyone would try to cheat the system like that.

I vote we change these races to 1 stock very hard; can take a few tries if your a noob (like me) and actually requires a certain amount of skill to complete. Normal 3 stock feels so bland...

 

[clubbadubba]

i vote we change to very easy so we don't get all the way to polygons and ****ing die.

 

[KnitePhox]

u suck take deaths and reset like a man

stick that in your elo charts

 

[clubbadubba]

dude if i stock that in my elo charts it would be

fighting polygon team: 3000
clubba: 200

 

[Battlecow]

who dies in 1p lol

clubba im shamed

stick to BTT

 

[Karajan]

Dude hang on ledge and do get-up attacks. Also, very-hard is faster cause the AI will approach you so you can just walk to the ledge then gimp them

 

[The Star King]

who dies in 1p lol

clubba im shamed

stick to BTT

You're full of it if you think beating Very Hard polygon team without a single death while doing a good speedrun strat is trivial

I tried Karajan's suggestion, and it was good for survival but it took F.O.R.E.V.E.R. (on very hard). Not good for speedrunning.

I think a lot of people see videos or play a lower difficulty and assume it'll be easy, when it's not

 

[TANK64]

People saying BTT/BTP is more "competitive" or "interesting" are chumps.

****ing keyboard players... smdh

(Same reason why getting consistent times in solitaire is more impressive than a WR luck deal.)

 

[Battlecow]

polygons on VH is easy

no-damaging polygons on VH, now that's hard.

I don't know what a good speedrun strat is on VH but I assume it doesn't involve getting smacked around too much, much less dying. I think you mostly just up-B them. Not hard.

People always talk about get up attacks but I don't think they've ever used that strategy if they think it's a cure-all. Slow and not great.

 

[TANK64]

^^this guy is just too cool.

 

[The Star King]

****ing keyboard players... smdh

um, wtf? what does keyboard have to do with anything?

polygons on VH is easy

no-damaging polygons on VH, now that's hard.

I don't know what a good speedrun strat is on VH but I assume it doesn't involve getting smacked around too much, much less dying. I think you mostly just up-B them. Not hard.

Yes, up-bing, and 1-deathing is easy. 0 deaths consistently is hard. You can get lucky with items, but yeah.

I just tried it and that's what it seemed like, anyways. Maybe I just suck.

People always talk about get up attacks but I don't think they've ever used that strategy if they think it's a cure-all. Slow and not great.

Agree. It seemed safer than up-bing but it took like 3 minutes to clear lol, because the polygons like to take their sweet time walking around on the platforms.

 

[Karajan]

If you want to beat polygons fast be DK

 

[TANK64]

um, wtf? what does keyboard have to do with anything?

nvm bro

nvm...

 

[B Link]

^Lmao! I missed those tay gifs

 

[The Star King]

yeah that's what I thought

 

[Vale]

I normally use throws on polygon team (just not slow ones like mario b-throw). Is up-b pretty much always better?

 

[clubbadubba]

does up-b kill high? I think avoiding star kills is probably best for times. I'll take the extra split second of mario's bthrow vs the extra 3 or so seconds it takes to die off the top.

 

[Karajan]

If you are pika i dont know what to use cause I dont play pika. stick with throws. Kirby = up air. Fox = shine, falcon = b moves, maybe u-tilt? mario = dn/up b, yoshi = idk, dk = up b, jiggs = b, link idk, samus = up b, maybe tilts? ness = up tilt? **** ness

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

If anyone is interested in smash 64 speedrunning please contact me. I am working on a wiki with instructions and a leaderboard @ http://super-smash-brothersn64-speedruns.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Smash_Brothers(N64)_Speedruns_Wiki . I am looking for editors to help develop strategies and also speedruns to be submitted to the best runs page. I am trying to grow the ssb64 running community and support current runners.
Oxwas was the best runner of kirby 3stock normal but has now lost his record to Guished.
Also clubba you start the timer at char select in 1p and stop it when you hit master hand the last time, at least for SRL races.
kirby=upair
fox= land cancel shine
falcon=?
mario=down b hand hitboxes that spike
yoshi=eggs mostly some dsmash situational
DK=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiwlGn6nYX8 Up-B
jiggs=i think nair and b
Link=upb used well(strong hitboxes) and dsmash
samus=bair/ ubp with care to send them the right direction
ness=?

 

[Crusader8389]

From my limited experience (only tried each char about 2 times on average):

It's usually not safe to use the instant kill methods for each char, but most have a few good hitboxes for killing polygon quickly. I found it easier to not die if I only throw in a few of the slower moves only when I knew there weren't other polygons who could punish because getting hit even once can lead to some dreadful combos (very hard only). That being said, heres my list of instant or nearly instant kill methods (besides smashes ofc because almost all of those kill). I put a ? by the ones that are more situational depending on the polygon's weight and/or position or you may need to chain 2-3 times. Also, I put slow by the ones that will leave you open in a lot of situations, and unless specified I mean only the strongest hitbox(es) for a move:

luigi: downnb (slow), fair?
mario: upb (slow), fair?
dk: upb
link: upb (slow), dair, fair
samus: upb? (slow), bair?
falcon: upb (slow), nair, bair, uair?
ness: utilt?, nair?, bair?, bup (glance them with the projectile itself or of course yourself propelled by it, slow)
yoshi: utilt?, bair?, nair?, uair?
kirby: uair, bup, bair?
fox: shine, uair (first fixed hitbox), uair? (2nd hitbox)
pika: downb (slow), bair?, nair?, fair?, dair?
jiggly: nair, uair?, b?

For fox, the initial fixed hitbox of foxes uair will insta kill most polygon, whereas the 2nd hitbox which usually hits won't. That being said, most people can't time that hitbox. For pika, most of his aerials will kill or nearly kill except uair. Also it should be noted that falcon's usmash, kirby's fmsash, and probably samus's fsmash do a good job of killing them without leaving you open as much as other smashes. Also note I probably missed a lot of moves in my limited testing.

The same thing you do for polygon applies to yoshi and kirby ofc, yoshi more so unless he is in his acid armour and kirby more so, and both are much less dangerous on very hard. Also, I can post some strats for big dk and metal mario if needed.

 

[madrush21]

You should be land canceling fox's shines if you are not already. This video explains the different methods of using fox's first hit of uair

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP2cjwHBrYs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

At least for DK, along with Link/Kirby team/Yoshi team, the Polygon team is very easy. My issue with doing VH strats with the other characters is that I have issues beating the VH with the other characters with 1 stock, espec for Ness/Luigi for some reason

I mean I messed up a bunch of times and I still got 1 minute with DK in my joke "run."

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

There is now a full leaderboards and forums for smash 64 speedrunning @ http://www.speedrun.com/ssb64/ thanks to TheTroobleSRL.

 

[caneut]

well there's this guy. http://www.twitch.tv/ghillieguide/profile

but ur gonna have to watch threw archives because he a fidel castro brawl2.0 player now.

his best speedrun is the "unlock everything %" especially the part where he just starts games and instantly resets them for an hour

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

It's normal and 3 stocks?
Hmm, going to go home later..for some reason.

 

[AthensHorseParty]

How many times do I have to post this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uW1hjqMTxQ

also that leaderboard sucks and is way out of date. Xat and Pikashy have been setting the WR for VH - 1 stock way back in March of this year. I know somebody on Twitch has a way more updated spread sheet. I was number 4 when I did this run. I could probably beat it but Xat has a like a 7:46 kirby run and that would probably take over 10, 000 attempts for me to beat. I literally spent over 50 hours trying to get my first sub 9... At a certain point so much of it is "luck" based that it just feels like playing a slot machine.

 

[Cobrevolution]

ya'll are frauds if you don't complete btt and btp

 

[AthensHorseParty]

I used to throw them in for completion's sake. But the official nerdsplanation for why we don't include them is
A) Because nothing ever changes and the optimal routes are already well known it would be "trivial" to include them compared to the other matches in the run
B) The BTT and BTP stages on every optimal run would look exactly the same so it would just mean requiring more attempts to get the same result
C) They're "bonus" stages so technically they should only be required in a 100% run
D) Certain characters would have a slight advantage because they all have different bonus stages so therefore it would no longer be valid to compare a DK run with a Kirby run for example
E) We don't wanna cuz we're lazy

 

[Combo Blaze]

I used to throw them in for completion's sake. But the official nerdsplanation for why we don't include them is
A) Because nothing ever changes and the optimal routes are already well known it would be "trivial" to include them compared to the other matches in the run
B) The BTT and BTP stages on every optimal run would look exactly the same so it would just mean requiring more attempts to get the same result

This is true for a lot of speedgames though. **** reason.

C) They're "bonus" stages so technically they should only be required in a 100% run

This is the only legitimate reason and pretty much the only reason needed.

D) Certain characters would have a slight advantage because they all have different bonus stages so therefore it would no longer be valid to compare a DK run with a Kirby run for example

Some tricks/routes are only possible with certain characters in some Sonic games. Different catagories could be used, or compare the time gained/loss from having to do these stages.

E) We don't wanna cuz we're lazy

I guess I shouldn't expect much from smash babies.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

@ C caneut I try to store everything on youtube cause twitch archiving drops frames https://www.youtube.com/user/GhillieGuide
Also I named the category All Unlockables and the category I am resetting for is DK 5 Stock Very Easy
I am also done streaming smash 4, back to smash 64

 

[caneut]

@ C caneut I try to store everything on youtube cause twitch archiving drops frames https://www.youtube.com/user/GhillieGuide
Also I named the category All Unlockables and the category I am resetting for is DK 5 Stock Very Easy
I am also done streaming smash 4, back to smash 64

omg

 

[TM_icecream]

Why did this thread get productive so much later LOL

 

[Studstill]

People are doing things. PM me if you wnat a domain on site, or anything else.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

not sure what the above post means, would you please elaborate what you mean?

 

[AthensHorseParty]

This is true for a lot of speedgames though. **** reason.
I guess I shouldn't expect much from smash babies.

Where's your runs big boy? You going to Apex? Wanna do a race for a beer or something?

 

[AthensHorseParty]

polygons on VH is easy

no-damaging polygons on VH, now that's hard.

I don't know what a good speedrun strat is on VH but I assume it doesn't involve getting smacked around too much, much less dying. I think you mostly just up-B them. Not hard.

Bullllll ****. If you want a WR record run it really is a matter of luck because you will almost invariably wanna use an aerial with set knock back and end up taking several trades. It's all item luck. If you get a maxim tomato or heart at the right time you can take like 20 seconds off that stage. I feel like the thing you don't realize until you're competing for an RTA is that there's a huge difference between playing "safe" and playing fast. Getting a "no-damage" on polygons would not be an optimal way to do the speed run. You have to just go for broke and have the patience to eat the resets over and over and over again or you're not getting a good time.

Just a reminder I'm the only person in this thread who has a console run in the top 5 on the twitch leader-board. (Which I did before I even knew about z-cancels. God help you all if I can get my hands on some more LSD)

 

[Combo Blaze]

Where's your runs big boy? You going to Apex? Wanna do a race for a beer or something?

I speed run other games. Although I did race a few games in SRL (got 2nd each time against the #1 runner was0x at the time without knowing most of the optimal strategies).

There's a twitch leader-board? Do you mean SRL or what?