Smash 64 Speed running Discussion

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Lol this thread

Welcome back social thread. Re:2013

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Honestly Very Hard just increases the number of random things that can happen in a speedrun making it easier to get a better run because none of the runs are very optimized in the category. My Very Easy Speedrun has only about 13 seconds left of optimization left where my Very Hard runs has about 40 seconds of optimization left. In terms of BTT and BTP there really is no point in completing them for a speedrun unless you are doing All Unlockables. If a smash 64 speedrunner wants to show how good he is at BTT or BTP they should be going for the IL record. There is different skillset used in the speedrun than competitive or BTT/BTP and those are skills based around manipulating the AI in the game to do what you want and that's what brings me back to smash 64 speedrunning every time. Basically what I am saying is we can all enjoy this great game in different ways.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

I have created a smash speedrunning subreddit that can be found here http://www.reddit.com/r/smashspeedruns. I created it to help smash speedrunners with promotion and unity as a community.

 

[T Brett]

Do you guys also break all targets and board all platforms in these runs? If not, why?
Cheers

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

@ T Brett we only complete targets and platforms in smash 64 speedruns if the category specifies it. Dying on targets/platforms saves significant time and does not affect your stock count so we do not complete them in single player runs of this game.

 

[Combo Blaze]

I liked this reason that was given by Athens.

C) They're "bonus" stages so technically they should only be required in a 100% run

 

[Kahnu]

I liked this reason that was given by Athens.

athens got rocked 1v1 vs me

finally got the match i wanted lmao

 

[AthensHorseParty]

athens got rocked 1v1 vs me

finally got the match i wanted lmao

Lol we've never played each other. Look at this loser making up weird fantasies. I've played online like 5 times now and I haven't even been using a 64 controller, dingus.

 

[Kahnu]

studstills tournament, i was named kira

 

[AthensHorseParty]

Yeah and I'd been drinking since 7:00 and it was the first day that I had ever played in lag or used an xbox controller. So great job rocking my ****. Play me on p2p next week after my controller comes in, we'll have a good old time.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Yeah and I'd been drinking since 7:00 and it was the first day that I had ever played in lag or used an xbox controller. So great job rocking my ****. Play me on p2p next week after my controller comes in, we'll have a good old time.

10johns

 

[AthensHorseParty]

Welcome to reddit, everybody.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Bumping this thread to hopefully some decent conversation going. I just wanted to give some links to channels of active(some more than others) smash 64 runners in our community.
Pikashy

appar1tion

InprisionedShadow

Primegamerjc

DK28

UrBoyGraham

 

[Mr. Wang]

So this game is a very fun and popular speed running game, and I decided to make a thread for the speedrunners to discuss different strats and stuff~

BEGIN

Typical speed run rules are:
Use *Character*, Beat Normal Mode, 3 Stocks

A streamer on twitch by the name "ImprisonedShadow" is a smash 64 speed runner who has a few WR under his belt. His stream is really enjoyable and is u wants tips, ideas, and/or want to watch him then do what he does, I'd recommend that you check his stream out.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

I would like to make this thread into a place where speedrunners can ask competitive 64 players to review their run videos and discuss possible strategies for completing the run in less time. I have informed the 64 running community but to start I am personally interested to see if you guys can come up with anything for DK 5 Stock Very Easy(current fastest run), the run videos to look over can be found here http://www.twitch.tv/pikashy/c/6373162 and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFs1glw2Nj0

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

I am trying to work out a consistent strat for killing samus off the bottom after the lava hit abusing the cargo mobility and the lack of mashing by AI(due to low difficulty)

 

[AthensHorseParty]

Bump. Hey @ GhllieShdeKnife did you get a good PB in VH 1 stock? Do you know what the WR is at right now? I'm probably gonna go for a new PB w/ Kirbs this summer after I get a good stick again.

Sorry about making fun of your VE 5 stock runs, man. I just don't get any real enjoyment out of seeing that category optimized but to each his own. Plus I know you're a legit runner. We need to get enough stream followers so that we can do a race at the next GDQ or something.

 

[Technical_Knockout]

i'm into speedrunning; i still check out speeddemosarchive & tasvideos out to see if there's anything new. my personal bests are:

super mario bros 1: 5:58
super mario bros 3: sub-15
super mario world : sub-15
dr. mario 64 s-hard: 18:14
the legend of zelda: 36:18
tetris for high score: 393,421 (lv-19)
goldeneye 007 (64): unlocked all cheats.

i've made it over the flagpole on the first level of super mario brothers & know how to walljump, go through bricks, floors & walls, shoot fireballs while small, get to the minus world & warp across the screen on that game... i also discovered 2 new methods of warping across the screen for the legend of zelda: sword-scrolling & boomerang-scrolling.

incidentally, there's a great technique that i just figured out for smash 64 that i posted in the 'simple things you may not know' thread that would probably greatly benefit a kirby runner.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Hey Athens, I did get a 6:52 on NTSC-J N64 with DK, It's currently the fastest run of 1 Stock VH AFAIK. The run could be optimized much more but I am actually on hiatus atm from smash 64 running as I am extremely busy with work and spending my free time playing other games that don't require as much hard work and preparation. If you are looking to get a really good time I suggest getting a Japanese copy as the AI in the teams fights are much less aggressive which makes it easier to finish good runs. I understand this may be frowned upon by you(it is by several 64 running community members) but it is significantly faster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt_BJdnvQIk this is a link to my 6:52

@ T Technical_Knockout The smash 64 running community has several members that play smash bros' competitively and all techniques that are useful are utilized in the best runs

 

[Technical_Knockout]

this tas came out yesterday:
zelda 1, 2nd quest--3 minutes.
http://tasvideos.org/4709S.html

 

[AthensHorseParty]

Hey Athens, I did get a 6:52 on NTSC-J N64 with DK, It's currently the fastest run of 1 Stock VH AFAIK. The run could be optimized much more but I am actually on hiatus atm from smash 64 running as I am extremely busy with work and spending my free time playing other games that don't require as much hard work and preparation. If you are looking to get a really good time I suggest getting a Japanese copy as the AI in the teams fights are much less aggressive which makes it easier to finish good runs. I understand this may be frowned upon by you(it is by several 64 running community members) but it is significantly faster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt_BJdnvQIk this is a link to my 6:52

@ T Technical_Knockout The smash 64 running community has several members that play smash bros' competitively and all techniques that are useful are utilized in the best runs

Interesting. And that's a damn good time dude. The Kirby TAS that I believe is the current VH world record (also on J version) is about 5:52 so that's getting scary close to "perfect play" levels. I don't really see why it would be frowned upon since a lot of games use J carts if they save time, dunno when I'll feel like actually spending money on one but I might look into it soon.

Edit: Also I think maybe learning DK is the best strat to go with. Kirby has the advantage on the master hand fight, he can suicide faster on btp and he maybe has a slight advantage on Giant DK but with DK the UP-B quick kills on the team battles just seem so much easier to pull off. Not only is the hitbox huge and it stays out forever but I never even considered he has invulnerability on his arms. On polygon team you only take like 47 percent whereas Kirby's up-air is so weak it just trades with everything. You basically end up relying on RNG to get tomatoes or a heart in order to get the best time possible on that stage.

Plus who wouldn't want to get some DK practice in, there's no better low-tier to trounce people with than the Donger.

 

[Shears]

Plus who wouldn't want to get some DK practice in, there's no better low-tier to trounce people with than the Donger.

Ugh, dirty mexican weegee?

 

[AthensHorseParty]

Ugh, dirty mexican weegee?

I once beat one of my casual friends' falcon by using only up-b out of shield with luigi. He literally just dash attacked my shield over and over and over like he had some kind of learning disorder. but I dream of the day when I can pull of cargo throw stage spike -> donkey punch for the ultimate disrespect

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Interesting. And that's a damn good time dude. The Kirby TAS that I believe is the current VH world record (also on J version) is about 5:52 so that's getting scary close to "perfect play" levels. I don't really see why it would be frowned upon since a lot of games use J carts if they save time, dunno when I'll feel like actually spending money on one but I might look into it soon.

Edit: Also I think maybe learning DK is the best strat to go with. Kirby has the advantage on the master hand fight, he can suicide faster on btp and he maybe has a slight advantage on Giant DK but with DK the UP-B quick kills on the team battles just seem so much easier to pull off. Not only is the hitbox huge and it stays out forever but I never even considered he has invulnerability on his arms. On polygon team you only take like 47 percent whereas Kirby's up-air is so weak it just trades with everything. You basically end up relying on RNG to get tomatoes or a heart in order to get the best time possible on that stage.

DK is considered much easier to get a decent time with in any category. Kirby has the advantage on several stages and fully optimized should have the best time in all categories. If you are looking at picking up DK I suggest you watch each of my vh 1 stock runs as many variations of strats were used to get the time I have now. My time should be improvable by about 30 seconds realistically and I got the time after about a month of attempts on several versions.

 

[Combo Blaze]

Bumping this. Would like to know a few things for fast playing this.

1) What are the quick kill moves for the Yoshi match, Kirby match, and Polygon Team match with each character?
2) How 2 manipulate Pikachu to killing himself?
3) Any manipulation trick in general cud b cool.

 

[caneut]

Bumping this. Would like to know a few things for fast playing this.

1) What are the quick kill moves for the Yoshi match, Kirby match, and Polygon Team match with each character?
2) How 2 manipulate Pikachu to killing himself?
3) Any manipulation trick in general cud b cool.

http://www.twitch.tv/inprisonedshadow/ this guys been streaming a lot recently, however i think hes recently shifted to the new majoras mask speedrun atm

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Bumping this. Would like to know a few things for fast playing this.

1) What are the quick kill moves for the Yoshi match, Kirby match, and Polygon Team match with each character?
2) How 2 manipulate Pikachu to killing himself?
3) Any manipulation trick in general cud b cool.

1) Too lazy atm to answer in detail, will update later(you can find the answers in speedruns featured here speedrun.com/ssb64)
2) it seems there are a lot of things you can do to get him to kill himself but I like going into the right pit or right above it then hitting pika to the right then waiting for him to start his up-b before edgehogging the left ledge of the pit(if you wait on the ledge he may land on the top section of the main platform instead of going for the ledge so just wait until he starts it and don't get close to him recovering just stay in the pit or on the left side of the right plat). Another strat that has a potential to be faster is to hit/throw pika to the right then stay on the top section and threaten space, if pika is in the pit he will try to get on top of the main platform but if your there threatening it he will often aim his 2nd upb to the right because you are there which of course leads to his death.
3)the manipulation tricks vary by us or jp ai but here is one I documented that works for the entire cast(us) in video form on one of the hardest levels in the speedrun(unless your dk/kirby) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtNhvyHdqLk
InprisonedShadow is the only active smash 64 runner atm afaik, I am exploring other things atm but will return in the future to take back the DK records. If you want the best info on smash 64 speedruns contact twitch.tv/pikashy as he developed/adapted most of the fastest strats and has almost all of the records despite being inactive for a while, he has lots of notes on each characters runs on each category and would be happy to help anyone learning(more help than I am as a DK specialist

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

Bumping this. Would like to know a few things for fast playing this.

1) What are the quick kill moves for the Yoshi match, Kirby match, and Polygon Team match with each character?
2) How 2 manipulate Pikachu to killing himself?
3) Any manipulation trick in general cud b cool.

I can only answer 1 for 1 character

off what i know
generally you dont want to kill off the top because it will take longer and different difficulties create different handicap levels so it might not work unless you are close to the horizontal blast zone or the move not staled heavily.

at very easy in general not situation specified and 50 % certain that some of these work in normal 3 stock difficulty

falcon- I mainly run falcon on 1 stock very hard but some of these do not work at the at that level such as staled nair .

so nair, bair, up b, falcon kick, bthrow ,dtilt(when you are close to the edge)and fair (after both hits/ second hit) work for all in very easy and for normal levels on all 3 stages.

these also work on yoshis for very hard but if they are not staled too much

kirby very hard - up b, bthrow , fsmash , dtilt(when you are close to the edge) and dair for edgeguarding

polygon team very hard - bthrow everything seriously, dtilt(when you are close to the edge) and fsmash at this difficulty it can be reset central

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

I am returning to smash 64 speedrunning atm and looking to do a full chronicling of smash 64 speedrunning history. I have gone through all the old SDA threads and I am specifically looking for stuff pre-2009, running the game was very influenced by the BtT/BtP early on so I would like to ask all the old 64 players on here to link me some old records/discussions that would be difficult for me to find by searching thread here on smashboards. I am also going to be covering TASing as I feel that is very important to 64 running development as well. Happy New Year and goddamn this thread is hilarious to read over now AthensHorseParty get fukt

 

[GolfClubNinja]

I myself i'm into trying out 64 speedrunning (especially with ADGQ going on). Are there any resources you would reccomend to help a beginner?

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

http://www.speedrun.com/ssb64/guides here are the guides available for smash 64 running. If you happen to be interested in DK 5 Stock Very Easy I have a very detailed guide on how to do that but for other characters and categories you need to watch the videos on the leaderboard that pertain to the category you plan on running and if your having problems Myself(GhillieGuide), InprisonedShadow(DarkLinktheReaper100 on YT), and/or Pikashy will be able to help you if you send us a message. It seems like there is a lot of interest in smash 64 speedrunning in the new year and I encourage you to get in contact with community members to help you and race against you ect.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

I myself i'm into trying out 64 speedrunning (especially with ADGQ going on). Are there any resources you would reccomend to help a beginner?

http://www.speedrun.com/ssb64/guides here are the guides available for smash 64 running. If you happen to be interested in DK 5 Stock Very Easy I have a very detailed guide on how to do that but for other characters and categories you need to watch the videos on the leaderboard that pertain to the category you plan on running and if your having problems Myself(GhillieGuide), InprisonedShadow(DarkLinktheReaper100 on YT), and/or Pikashy will be able to help you if you send us a message. It seems like there is a lot of interest in smash 64 speedrunning in the new year and I encourage you to get in contact with community members to help you and race against you ect.

 

[GolfClubNinja]

cool, thanks

 

[UltraRetroReviver]

I actually don't run the [character], 3 stock, normal categories. I run Unlock All Characters. My PB is 41:13.8. That time is really crap though due to two reasons.

1 - PAL Console and cartridge.
2 - Stupid mistakes.

I want to see more people that are interested in running that category in the future.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

The category does have a number of videos for you to learn from on speedrun.com/ssb64 and I believe ImprisonedShadow is working on putting up a time for the category. I am interested in comparing the PAL and NTSC versions of this game for speedrunning and my best guess is that it is slower due to the frame rate.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Hello Smashboards SSB 64 Running Community,
I am looking to create short video series on the history of smash 64 speedrunning. I have gone through all the posts on this thread and threads from other sites like SDA. I am interested in doing interviews with veteran smash 64 runners to give more context around the information I have gathered. If you have any links to websites used in the past I may have missed or would like to set up an interview please contact me here, or through my other social media. Thank you for your time and may the RNG be with you,
GhillieGuide

 

[UltraRetroReviver]

The reason as to why the run is slower on PAL is slower is just because PAL cartridges run about 1/6 slower than NTSC cartridges. the only games where this is excepted is Super Mario Bros. for the NES. This is because they were trying to make the game run as fast as NTSC Versions on the NES and they made it run faster on PAL than in comparison to NTSC, funnily enough.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Ya I am aware of the slower frame rate on PAL, it likely makes the run slower and/or harder to complete as it may skip over frames needed for precise movement. I don't have PAL so I can't say for certain what effect it has on speedrunning, it has the potential to be faster than us if it's AI was modded(Highly unlikely) for some categories. It's interesting

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Just released a video introducing SSB64 Running https://youtu.be/MhER3mFAFsc more videos with info coming soon. If you guys have any ideas for videos you would like to see please let me know. Planning tutorials on specific categories, Likely one on different universal AI manipulations(i.e. works on all chars).

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Bumping this. Would like to know a few things for fast playing this.

1) What are the quick kill moves for the Yoshi match, Kirby match, and Polygon Team match with each character?

Combo Blaze I just released a video where I answer this question on my youtube channel