Smash 64 Speed running Discussion

[TM_icecream]

So this game is a very fun and popular speed running game, and I decided to make a thread for the speedrunners to discuss different strats and stuff~

BEGIN

Typical speed run rules are:
Use *Character*, Beat Normal Mode, 3 Stocks

 

[Froski]

Normal would be too easy

Dunno...probably Very Hard, 1 stock? Even that would be easy though.... its hard to make "impressive" runs when its not even remotely difficult to breeze through it. BTT and BTP are pretty much the only modes worth speed running. (Well of course...that's what its there for)

 

[KnitePhox]

yeah i think speed running 1p mode seems like its for noobs, but i wouldn't mind livestream racing. i'd livestream race, but not try to beat any records. all the fun would be in btt and btp as well as the race, actually playing vs cpu's is way too boring and ez

 

[asianaussie]

for actual competition, 1-stock is the same as 5-stock, dying takes too much time

BTT and BTP times are more competitive than 1P imo

 

[TM_icecream]

That's kinda different. Cause these runs typically take like 12 minutes(depending on character. My pika PB is 11:40, Mario PB is sub 11 but I forget it )
BTT and BTP take like 30 seconds max and would be much more boring to race.

Like, last season on SRL, this game was always in the top 10 most popular to race, and that was always the category.
Timer starts when you press start on the char select screen, and ends when you get MH to 0%

There's strats for beating teams, for forcing an SD on Metal Mario, etc

 

[Sangoku]

Yeah but it's not about how good you are and it's less about strategy than BTT/BTP, since you just need to be familiar with CPU's behaviour/ have luck. From a competitive player's point of view, it's less interesting.

 

[TM_icecream]

It really is a lot of fun. It's definitely based on skill cause the best racers consistently get sub 10, and the bad ones always get like over 15 lol
I typically get around 11, consistently.

Plus the only real CPU's you play are link(but he doesn't move for the first 10 seconds of the match) Fox, Mario and Luigi team, and Samus.

 

[clubbadubba]

Who's that pokemon?

IT'S PIKACHU the cpu player!

 

[Sangoku]

Oh because the others are controlled by humans? If not, sounds like CPUs to me...

 

[B Link]

I've raced on SRL before. It's pretty fun but I still prefer versus mode and BTT/BTP.

 

[kys]

Uhhh so these guys shouldn't be racing on SRL, they should be learning competitive smash. Double u tee eff

I've actually picked up speed running Ocarina of Time, which has left no time for smash anymore. Bingo races are too fun.

 

[Battlecow]

High scores on 1p mode are the most fun

 

[B Link]

High scores on 1p mode are the most fun

YAWN

 

[TM_icecream]

left out pika sorry.


My point was it's not like you're just fighting 10 level 5's in a row or anything lmao. Teams, MM, MH, RTTF etc.

I speedrun OoT, MM, Toy Story 2, and SSB. SSB is actually my favorite, races are the perfect length, and you can just do like 4 runs in a row with different chars, which keeps it interesting.

also if these guys would rather speedrun than enter tourneys that's their business lmao

 

[Battlecow]

Yeah that sounds mad fun dude

 

[Combo Blaze]

not enough sanic speedrunners always LoZ/mario/other SLOW games. cumon step it up!

I've joined a few races and came 2nd in all of them only behind the guy ranked #1 (or game erroring during the run (emu))
2ez

 

[Froski]

Not enough Super Metroid speed runners...

Im the only one in history to attempt a segmented any % run.


I get 0:30 everytime *cough* best time *cough*


*Unfortunately SDA takes forever*

 

[cmu6eh]

I have been absent over here for a couple days but the TAS videos guys were talking about making another ssb64 tas for speed. Man I have been lurking over there since like 2008

 

[The Star King]

People saying BTT/BTP is more "competitive" or "interesting" are chumps.

 

[asianaussie]

1P and BTT/BTP are both uninteresting to watch imo, but at least BTT/BTP doesn't involve praying the targets do exactly as you want them to

and i have never understood how speedrunners can reset over and over and never be tired of seeing and doing exactly the same things

 

[Battlecow]

BTP is boring as ****

this sounds fun

 

[The Star King]

1P and BTT/BTP are both uninteresting to watch imo, but at least BTT/BTP doesn't involve praying the targets do exactly as you want them to

At least 1P involves modifying your actions in accordance to what the AI does, and not doing the exact same thing over and over.

and i have never understood how speedrunners can reset over and over and never be tired of seeing and doing exactly the same things

Irony? BTT/BTP is far worse with this. You are attempting the EXACT same thing a million times more.

 

[asianaussie]

At least 1P involves modifying your actions in accordance to what the AI does, and not doing the exact same thing over and over.

unless you impose arbitrary limits on yourself (ie. very hard mode), then it doesn't really involve modifying anything

im sure very hard mode races or highest-score races are somewhat fun, but if you can race the game, why not play against other people in multiplayer

Irony? BTT/BTP is far worse with this. You are attempting the EXACT same thing a million times more.

it's not irony because i said both were uninteresting to watch

do you think im actually defending BTT/BTP?

 

[The Star King]

unless you impose arbitrary limits on yourself (ie. very hard mode), then it doesn't really involve modifying anything

Yes it does. I'm pretty sure the AI's potentially random behavior has the possibility of affecting the run at any difficulty, to the point where you do something different. Even if it's slightly. As opposed to BTT/BTP where you are trying to do an exact memorized route as technically perfect as possible.

And regarding the "arbitrary limits", people going for the best time of a certain difficulty is kind of the norm for games with difficulty settings, dude. Usually times are tracked separately by difficulty. You make it sound like someone speedrunning on higher difficulties would be an oddity, which it wouldn't be.

im sure very hard mode races or highest-score races are somewhat fun, but if you can race the game, why not play against other people in multiplayer

IDK dude, maybe you're taking a vacation in Thailand or something. I'm not saying it's better than multiplayer.

it's not irony because i said both were uninteresting to watch

do you think im actually defending BTT/BTP?

OK I misinterpreted it. Mostly because you initially said BTT/BTP was "more competitive".

 

[TM_icecream]

this is a popular speed running game

thats the popular speed running rule-set

I don't see what we're discussing here lol. If you would rather do BTT/BTP do it. If you'd like to race people on very hard, do it.

 

[asianaussie]

Yes it does. I'm pretty sure the AI's potentially random behavior has the possibility of affecting the run at any difficulty, to the point where you do something different. Even if it's slightly. As opposed to BTT/BTP where you are trying to do an exact memorized route as technically perfect as possible.

And regarding the "arbitrary limits", people going for the best time of a certain difficulty is kind of the norm for games with difficulty settings, dude. Usually times are tracked separately by difficulty. You make it sound like someone speedrunning on higher difficulties would be an oddity, which it wouldn't be.

I know, SDA has very easy difficulty listed, which is literally spam DK Up-B. Speedrunning on higher difficulties for fighting games usually is a bit of an oddity (not in TAS for obvious reasons).It's not as if it's the first game to require a lot of luck and resets (Pokemon Gold, poor werster), but I guess it just isn't something that appeals to me.

Maybe speedrunning normal mode IS the favoured race method, but idk it still seems sorta weird, wouldn't you rather Very Hard or Very Easy?

 

[The Star King]

I doubt this is nearly as luck-dependent as Pokemon or most RPGs in general.

Very Hard is probably... too hard (seriously, for people (Froski) who said it's easy to no-death it... it's not, actually try it). Very Easy is probably too cheesable (as you pointed out, opponents dying too quickly).

 

[TM_icecream]

Normal is fun cuz in teams there are like a couple of moves that kill the teams fast, and other dont. Like Mario's upB 1 hits any team fighter(not Mario and luigi tho lol) and his Fsmash doesn't. There's different starts that keep it interesting. Very hard, nothing one hits them, which would make polygons like a 30 minutes split lol

 

[clubbadubba]

I don't see what we're discussing here lol. If you would rather do BTT/BTP do it. If you'd like to race people on very hard, do it.

That's what we do here in 64 land, discuss things that don't need discussing.

 

[asianaussie]

clubba, what do you think is a more classic disney film, pinocchio or dumbo?

 

[clubbadubba]

well first we have to define "classic" so sheer can't come play semantic games and ****:

classic: judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.

AND/OR

classic: historically memorable

I think its pretty clear that pinocchio is of higher quality than dumbo. But that is really more of an opinion thing. However, it is FACT that pinocchio has been more historically memorable. Sure everyone remembers Dumbo's big ears, but they also remember pinocchio's growing nose. On top of that, names of other pinocchio characters are pretty well known: jiminy cricket and gepetto most notable. Who else is in Dumbo, does anyone even remember? Even more, "When you wish upon a star" is a well known song. Who remembers a Dumbo song? Anyone? Plus who could forget the phrase "I'm a real boy!" Dumbo, while it may have been a decent movie, has hardly stood the test of time as well as pinocchio.

All of that being said, neither movie is very good.

 

[asianaussie]

fair points

ill open up the discussion table for everyone else as well

which is a 'better' movie, the lion king or aladdin?

im a sucker for the lion king, but of the two movies my favourite character is obviously genie

remember guys, there are no wrong answers (except ness, ness is always the wrong answer)

 

[Sangoku]

That thread got aussie'd. By aa alone, now that all the others have left.

 

[clubbadubba]

Both movies are very very good, but I gotta give the edge to Aladdin (who's surprised?). Lion King was great when I was younger, but it definitely lost a lot of its charm as I grew up. I watched it recently and wasn't as into it as before. Now Aladdin on the other hand, that movie has stood the test of growing up. The genie is still hilarious (far superior to timone and pumba who play a similar role in lion king), and overall the characters and the stories are just... better. Also the songs on Aladdin >>>>>> lion king songs. In fact I can't really think of a single attribute in which lion king beats out aladdin.

yea man where the **** IS australia?

 

[The Star King]

I agree with both of clubba's decisions. Huh.

 

[TM_icecream]

Lion King >>>>>>>>>>> Alladin

I saw lion king again when it came out in 3D and again like 3 months ago.

It's just so good.

 

[clubbadubba]

What elements exactly does the lion king have over aladdin? Aladdin was in 3d in 1992 (magic carpet ride)

Oh and I forgot to explain my Aladdin drinking game which REALLY pushes it over the top:

Rule #1: Take a drink whenever someone should've died, but didn't. (Like when the sword swallower actually swallows the whole sword, guards fall like 20 stories, etc.)

Rule #2: Take a drink whenever a reference is made to something that they wouldn't have known about in that time period. (basically whenever the genie talks. And oh god the genie's song... chug for 2 minutes basically)

Of course I'm talking about drinking water here.

Star King you have to agree with me, check the sig yo.

 

[TM_icecream]

Deeper story with more plot twists IMO

Plus you can't deny the lion kings music is god tier.

Hakunah Matatah
Can't Wait To Be King


Circle of life!

 

[cmu6eh]

The rescuers down under is the best disney movie.

 

[clubbadubba]

lion king music is solid, but not god tier. god tier is aladdin music son.

a whole new world > can you feel the love tonight

friend like me >>>>>>>> hakunah matatah

one jump ahead >>> can't wait to be king

prince ali (reprise) aka jafar's song > be preprared

prince ali > whatever else lion king's got

circle of life > arabian nights i'll give you that one