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Smash 64 Index (READ HERE FIRST)

Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 12, 2012
Messages
305
Location
Oregon
Saltsizzle said:
Rock cancel (Kirby)
Descending up b and bomb recovery (Link)
Edge cancelled moves (Yoshi Down B, Ness Up b and down b (easier), Yoshi egg cancel (harder))
Pikachu's up b edge grab from below DL (the Banze) - looks like two vertical up b's with a ledge grab at end.
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Thanks, those are good. But let's be honest though, Link's bomb recovery is useless. Maybe if you weren't facing backwards afterwards...

BananaBolts said:
Advancing bairs and retreating fairs
Fast fall uairs (I don't think you've cover this but I'm not sure of its necessity either)
Click to expand...
The thing is, I'm not sure I could add anything by explaining these. There's really not anything weird going on. You just practice. But maybe exposing people to slightly harder options like this could be useful?
 
BananaBolts

BananaBolts

I find you quite appealing
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
784
Location
Fayetteville, TN
Tom Bombadil said:
Thanks, those are good. But let's be honest though, Link's bomb recovery is useless. Maybe if you weren't facing backwards afterwards...
Click to expand...
It's very situational but it could be good info for up-and-coming Link mains.
Tom Bombadil said:
The thing is, I'm not sure I could add anything by explaining these. There's really not anything weird going on. You just practice. But maybe exposing people to slightly harder options like this could be useful?
Click to expand...
Well, I didn't think about either of those until I read about it. I'm not saying that's true for everyone but in my case it was. I think their inclusion in to an informational video series is quite important. It gives that little jump start on little things to extend combos.
 
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C

Capos

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
187
Tom Bombadil said:
The thing is, I'm not sure I could add anything by explaining these. There's really not anything weird going on. You just practice. But maybe exposing people to slightly harder options like this could be useful?
Click to expand...
I think there's some value to some "this is simple to explain, but it's useful and you may not have thought to try it" things. For example, ledge hopping is so easy that it stretches the limits of the word "advanced technique," but it has a place in your videos because new players may not have thought to do that on their own.
 
MrMarbles

MrMarbles

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
Messages
1,381
Location
Orlando, FL
Tom Bombadil said:
I'm doing the final video on character specific techniques right now. Actually, I wouldn't mind some input from you guys on what sections to include. Here's what I'm thinking right now:
- Teleport
- Double Jump Cancel
- Mario/Luigi tornado recovery
- Rising pound (same mechanics as falcon punch recovery)
- Jab grab
- Short hop double laser
- Neutral B in-air turnaround
- Shine cancel
- Parry

Are there any other big character specific techniques? I don't want to include stuff about basic combo setups so I decided against a section on Mario's SH Dair > Uair and stuff like that.



As far as the overlay goes, I got it from an Ocarina of Time speedrunner who made it himself (Zeds?). He was very happy to give it to me so I'm confident he wouldn't mind if I linked it to you guys:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fmm0fqdqwv45rob/N64c B2.zip

The setup may be a little annoying depending on how comfortable you are with stuff like that. But at this point, I just open the application and it works so it's very well made in my opinion.
Click to expand...
pika extended up-b comes to mind. there's so many little things too. you could almost make a short video for each character tbh
 
Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 12, 2012
Messages
305
Location
Oregon
MrMarbles said:
pika extended up-b comes to mind. there's so many little things too. you could almost make a short video for each character tbh
Click to expand...
My goal is to release this general character specific techniques guide on the biggest, most widely used stuff which your average new player might not know. This gets them a jump start on learning the things that they see in high level matches.

But you're right, there's so much character specific stuff. After I cover the big techniques, I want to collaborate with a few high level mains of a certain character and make a video about that character specifically. Covering the main stuff like playstyle, best moves, basic combos, recovery options, etc.

I was in a Fox group before these advanced techs videos but we decided it would be hard to go forward without being able to assume some level of technical knowledge from our audience. So the ATs videos began.

I'll be sure to let everyone know when I'm ready to do that so that people who are interested can help out. I'm sure I'd learn a ton in the process too which would be great.
 
M!nt

M!nt

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
2,087
Are people using the skype group still or something else so I can change it.
 
BananaBolts

BananaBolts

I find you quite appealing
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
784
Location
Fayetteville, TN
Madao said:
Yes, people are still using the skype group.
Click to expand...
Well if we only used the IRC, then I think it would be a lot more accessible to newer players. They don't have to get invited to the group, they can also pull up the other smashbros room in the IRC to talk about the other smash games, and moderation seems better in the IRC.

If Skype can offer any legitimate reasons to keep using it for group discussion, then I'd like to hear those reasons. Otherwise, I'm all in favor for switching to the IRC.
 
Madao

Madao

Moderator
Moderator
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873
BananaBolts said:
Well if we only used the IRC, then I think it would be a lot more accessible to newer players. They don't have to get invited to the group, they can also pull up the other smashbros room in the IRC to talk about the other smash games, and moderation seems better in the IRC.

If Skype can offer any legitimate reasons to keep using it for group discussion, then I'd like to hear those reasons. Otherwise, I'm all in favor for switching to the IRC.
Click to expand...
I totally forgot about the IRC chat. I've never joined it before. I agree there are some advantages to it, but I don't like how you can only see messages that get sent while you're online. It's also worse for people with poor internet. I think it's fine to have both an IRC chat and skype chat.
 
Shears

Shears

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
3,146
Location
disproving indeterminism
I know there is a lot of new people coming in and asking about controller adapters and there is a large discussion on controllers and joysticks so I figured a section should be added for this. I don't know who wants to write it up but I think its useful to have this information indexed. Something that has instructions and resources for GC to 64 adapter, online adapters, and the karajan adapter as well as controller and stick repairs/replacements with a list of places to get gears, derek sticks, grease, etc.

My contribution to this section can be a brief explanation of the GC to 64 adapter.

Here is the link to the adapter:
http://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/gc_to_n64_adapter/

Owning a couple of these they work very well. A couple things to note, the adapter can save and remember controller configurations that can be used at later times. The default configuration for the adapter is not ideal for playing smash, as the ideal configuration is to have the adapter make playing 64 the same controls as playing melee. The site offers a free configuration mapping tool but to save time I've already done this. To map the controllers to resemble those of melee the user must first enter "config" mode which is done by holding down the start button for 8 seconds until it beeps. Here is a list of instructions:

Program controller:
1. Hold start button for 8 seconds until beeps to enter config mode
2. Press these buttons in order: XZBBL BAZXL ZXL XXZBAL ZBAL ZBAL ZBAL BAAZBXL ZBYL Start
*This configures the controller to have L, R shield. Z Grab. X, Y jump. D-Pad taunt. C-Stick jump. There is no programming of C-Stick cheat code macros like in melee.

Save controller configuration:
1. Hold start button for 8 seconds until beeps to enter config mode
2. Press R
3. Press any direction on the D-Pad that you wish to have mapped as storing current controller configuration

Open a saved configuration:
1. Hold start button for 8 seconds until beeps to enter config mode
2. Press the direction on the D-Pad that is mapped to the configuration you wish to use.

For more configurations and to map your own configurations, check the official site and use their mapping tool http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/gc_to_n64/index_en.php#2
 
H

Horbie

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 5, 2014
Messages
32
Location
NYC
So saw this general advanced techniques document before somewhere and started looking for it again. The only place I have managed to find it so far is here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/230666726/Super-Smash-Bros-64-The-Advanced-Techniques#scribd

But it's annoying as hell to read it there, and you need a payed membership to download. I know I've seen it somewhere where it was just available. Does anybuddy have a link they could share for this thing?


Also thought it might make a good add to the very end of the gen info/tech section of the op, cause I know I would have liked to go somewhere where I could've just found the more advanced tech stuff written.

Edit: whelp, actually went through to read it and turns out you can't even read it without a subscription. lol
 
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M!nt

M!nt

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
2,087
Horbie said:
So saw this general advanced techniques document before somewhere and started looking for it again. The only place I have managed to find it so far is here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/230666726/Super-Smash-Bros-64-The-Advanced-Techniques#scribd

But it's annoying as hell to read it there, and you need a payed membership to download. I know I've seen it somewhere where it was just available. Does anybuddy have a link they could share for this thing?


Also thought it might make a good add to the very end of the gen info/tech section of the op, cause I know I would have liked to go somewhere where I could've just found the more advanced tech stuff written.
Click to expand...
It's the first link under the General Information/Techniques column. "For more detail on techniques look at this guide by dch111"

here's the link anyway.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2r...tOGViMzhhYzFlZDYz/edit?hl=en&authkey=CL-r_oAL
Maybe I should move it, I knew it was in there, but I had a hard time finding it as well. :smash:

edit: Added it to useful threads/sites
 
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H

Horbie

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 5, 2014
Messages
32
Location
NYC
Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 12, 2012
Messages
305
Location
Oregon
Posted a character specific advanced techniques guide: https://youtu.be/8lOpfwS5NMs

I tried to really make some of the techniques that were harder for me to learn more accessible to new players. I remember learning TP and SHDL being almost impossible without asking a better player for help and many new players don't have that luxury if they're just smashboards lurkers.
 
C

Capos

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
187
Tom Bombadil said:
Posted a character specific advanced techniques guide: https://youtu.be/8lOpfwS5NMs

I tried to really make some of the techniques that were harder for me to learn more accessible to new players. I remember learning TP and SHDL being almost impossible without asking a better player for help and many new players don't have that luxury if they're just smashboards lurkers.
Click to expand...
You say that pikachu can extend the 1st quick attack or the 2nd but not both, but I don't think that's true. You can do both right? (although obviously your timing has to be near perfect)
 
Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

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Joined
Oct 12, 2012
Messages
305
Location
Oregon
Capos said:
You say that pikachu can extend the 1st quick attack or the 2nd but not both, but I don't think that's true. You can do both right? (although obviously your timing has to be near perfect)
Click to expand...
Hmm. I'd be surprised if you could since you forgo inputting a new direction by extended Pika's 1st up-B. But I definitely am not sure on this, just deducing. If there's a video that shows a double extended up-B I'd be interested to see it
 
C

Capos

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
187
Tom Bombadil said:
Hmm. I'd be surprised if you could since you forgo inputting a new direction by extended Pika's 1st up-B. But I definitely am not sure on this, just deducing. If there's a video that shows a double extended up-B I'd be interested to see it
Click to expand...
I'm definitely not aware of video (I've searched for one), it's just something I thought I read as being possible. I'd love if someone could confirm either way.
 
<Fruity>

<Fruity>

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
Messages
165
Location
Barcelona
^

Just TAS'd it and looks like you cannot take advantatge of the first extended up-B.

The reason is because the "extend period" starts after the last frame you can input for the 2nd jump. This means that the distance covered in the first up-B is the same for both, extended and normal.

It would be cool if someone else tested it as well to make sure what I'm saying is true.

Also, really good guide Tom, as usual!
 
MrMarbles

MrMarbles

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
Messages
1,381
Location
Orlando, FL
Tom Bombadil said:
Hmm. I'd be surprised if you could since you forgo inputting a new direction by extended Pika's 1st up-B. But I definitely am not sure on this, just deducing. If there's a video that shows a double extended up-B I'd be interested to see it
Click to expand...
i feel like the double extended up b is kind of like an urban legend. I've heard many people state that it is a thing but never seen it done or maybe i just wouldnt know if i saw it. I've also had multiple people online ask me if i am using pikas double extended up-b i guess because i am pretty good at getting the max possible recovery from off stage. All in all it's kind of a big mystery if it really exists (probably not) and i think it should remain a mystery haha
 
Shears

Shears

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
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Location
disproving indeterminism
The video didn't talk about double vertical upb for pika, I did it once by accident on stream, but if some noob can practice for millions of hours and get it every time then they have mastered a very advanced technique (with little application).
 
F

FoldersUnite

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 21, 2015
Messages
2
Hi, new player here looking to get better bit by bit. Could somebody add me to NA skype group also please. Skype name is FoldersUnite.
 
F

fukenchu

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
1
Hello. Could somebody add me to NA skype group also please. Skype name is facebook:morelovzky.
 
KoRoBeNiKi

KoRoBeNiKi

Smash Hero
Writing Team
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
5,959
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
KORO#668
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Morin0

Morin0

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
1,907
Location
San Diego, CA
When explaining about why grabbing the ledge early can lead to getting hit when edgehogging, it would have been useful to have the invincibility frames actually show. It visually demonstrates why grabbing the ledge early makes you vulnerable.
 
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Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 12, 2012
Messages
305
Location
Oregon
Morin0 said:
When explaining about why grabbing the ledge early can lead to getting hit when edgehogging, it would have been useful to have the invincibility frames actually show. It visually demonstrates why grabbing the ledge early makes you vulnerable.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree.

I find the details of advanced techniques fascinating and think that kind of stuff was really helpful when I learned how to play at a higher level. But even with being rather brief (I thought), my other videos have been 20-30 min each. My goal on this video was to do all the advanced techniques in 5 minutes or so and not go into any sort of technical depth.

A casual watches my video
Tries ledgehogging
Success
Tries again
Gets huged
WTF
"Oh yeah he said I might have grabbed too early if that happens"
Conducts experiments
Gains intuition for invincibility length

That would be a great series of events in my opinion. At the end of the day, the only way to learn is by playing. There was an immense amount of technical depth that got cut from this video (in fact, there's very little technical depth in any of my videos) and that's for a reason. However, in this instance, it might have been nice to include the invincibility frames as it could have just been in the clip and I wouldn't have had to explicitly mention it. Free information. But oh well
 
M!nt

M!nt

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
2,087
I'm glad they decided to rename the collapse tag to spoiler for no reason at all. :mad:

edit: changed to the new spoiler tag and it now lags my computer really bad. Anyone else have this problem? I might get rid of them if so.
 
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