Smash 64 Index (READ HERE FIRST)

M!nt

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
2,087
#1
General Information/Techniques
Grounded

Attack Button
Jab

Forward Tilt (FTilt)

Up Tilt (UTilt)

Down Tilt (DTilt)

Forward Smash(FSmash)
+

Up Smash(USmash)
+

Down Smash(DSmash)
+

Dash Attack
(While Running)
Forward Throw(FThrow)
or
+

Back Throw(BThrow)
or
+

Taunt

Jump
,
,
or

Shield
or
(Buffered)

In the Air

Attack Button
Neutral Air (Nair)

Forward Air(Fair)

Back Air (Bair)

Up Air (Uair)

Down Air (Dair)

Jump
,
,
or


Specials

Attack Button
Neutral B

Up B

Down B

For more detail on techniques look at this guide by dch111
Also check out these amazing video guides to advanced techniques by Tom Bombadil Part 1 Part 2 Part 3
Overview
Character Specific

Z-Cancel:Z-canceling is very important in Smash 64. This is done by pressing the Z button just before touching the ground after an air attack.
This removes all of the landing lag, allowing you to use lots of attacks one after another.

Notice how red link's dair ends much faster, this is why z-canceling is extremely useful.

Directional Influence(DI): DI is also an important part of smash 64. It allows you to break out of combos and can allow you to survive a hit that would normally kill you.
Summary
Video Guide on DI
Other Videos on DI
Reverse DI Guide

Shorthop: This is exactly what it sounds like, a small jump by quickly tapping the c button.
Useful to combo your opponent at low percentage.

Teching: You can tech after being knocked down from an attack by hitting the Z button. This causes you to quickly get up.
You can also press left and right to tech in different directions.

Stick Jump: A stick jump(done by pressing up quickly on the control stick) will cause you to jump higher than using a c button.
This is useful for when you are just barely away from connecting a combo or just need to jump a little higher.
Range affects how high your stick jump will send you: Video

Pivoting: Pressing one direction and then immediately pressing the other will cause your character to pivot.
This is important and helps you set up combos. Video Guide

Shield Dropping: Dropping from a platform is faster if you're in your shield before pressing down.
You should make a habit out of pressing Z before platform dropping. This also stops you from ducking when you meant to platform drop.

Fastfall: Pressing down at the top of your jump while in the air to fall faster than you would normally.

Edgehog: For a little bit after you grab the edge, you get invincibility frames and also prevent your opponent from grabbing the edge.
This allows you to easily gimp characters with bad recoveries such as Falcon,Ness or Fox.

Crouch Cancel: Holding down to duck before getting hit will reduce the knockback of an attack.

Character Specific Techniques
:falcon64:Falcon Video Guide:falcon64:
:yoshi64:Yoshi Video Guide:yoshi64:

Jab Grab: Only usable by Pikachu, Mario, Luigi and Ness. By performing a jab and then a grab after will cause the character to jab and grab together. This is useful for when someone is on the ground and you can't grab them. Video Guide

Double Jump Cancel(DJC): Only usable by Ness and Yoshi. This allows you to do many attacks quickly one after another.
You do this by using your double jump and then quickly doing an air attack. You can do this by sliding your thumb from right C, down C and then A or by using Firo's Method. Ness Example
Yoshi DJC Shieldbreak Practice Tutorial

Parry: Only usable by Yoshi. This is done by pressing shield at the exact moment you're hit, Yoshi will take no damage or knockback
Example

Egg Cancel Only usable by Yoshi. Throwing an egg(UpB) while grabbing the ledge will cause Yoshi to grab the ledge while still throwing an egg.

Yoshi Bomb Cancel Only usable by Yoshi. Ground pounding(DownB) while over or next to a ledge will cancel the attack and allow Yoshi to grab the ledge.

Charge Cancel: Only usable by DK and Samus. By pressing Z while charging your punch or charge shot, you cancel the charge up while keeping the amount you charged.
For DK while in the air this allows him to change directions, so that he can grab onto the ledge.

Shine Cancel: Only usable by Fox. Pressing Down B to shine immediately after a jump will cancel your jump causing you to do a very quick Shine.
It can also be shield break :D Example

SHDL(Short Hop Double Laser): Only usable by Fox. If you are quick enough and time it right you can get two lasers out during a shorthop.
This is incredibly useful for fox to space around opponents Example
Kirby can also do this if he has Fox's power, but it turns into a Short Hop Triple Laser(SHTL) o_O


Guide to Essential Combos
Part 1 (Falcon-Luigi-Jigglypuff)
Part 2 (Fox-Mario-Samus)

Character Threads
:falcon64:Falcon
:fox64:Fox
:ness64:Ness
:link64:Link
:mario64:Mario
:luigi64:Luigi
:yoshi64:Yoshi
:dk64:Donkey Kong
:samus64:Samus
:pikachu64:Pikachu
:jigglypuff64:Jigglypuff
:kirby64:Kirby
Taken from this post thanks The Star King The Star King !
All Characters
  • Get-up attacks
  • Ledge attacks
:luigi64:Luigi:
  • Dash Attack
  • D-Air
  • Weak Up-B
  • Taunt
:mario64:Mario:
  • D-Air
  • Down-B
  • All but last hit of Up-B
:dk64:Donkey Kong (F-Throw grab release isn't constant lol):
  • Dash Attack
  • Up-B
  • Down-B
:link64:Link:
  • First two hits of U-Smash
:samus64:Samus:
  • U-Air
  • Up-B
:falcon64:Falcon:
  • None
:ness64:Ness (his D-Tilt causes people to fall at like 900%+ lol):
  • All hits of Neutral-B but the initial
:yoshi64:Yoshi:
  • U-Tilt
  • D-Tilt
  • Neutral-B (If that counts)
  • Down-B landing stars
:kirby64:Kirby:
  • U-Air
  • All but last aerial hit of F-Air
  • Landing hit of F-Air/N-Air/D-Air
  • Neutral-B copy/spit-out/release (if those count)
  • Rising and falling hit of Up-B (not the shockwave)
:fox64:Fox:
  • Down-angled F-Tilt
  • First hit U-Air
  • D-Air
  • Neutral-B
  • Down-B
:pikachu64:Pikachu:
  • F-Air (Not the uncanceled landing hit)
:jigglypuff64:Jigglypuff:
  • D-Air (Not the uncanceled landing hit)
Thanks asianaussie asianaussie ! c:
Original post from Isai is here.

General Differences
  • DI is 40% weaker and 1 less frame in DI window
  • 1 less frame of hitlag
  • Attacker and one being attacked have the same hitlag.
  • Sounds for body hits are different and very cartoony (think BIFF, SWOP, etc)
  • Jigglypuff is called Purin
  • Name is 'All Star! Dairantou Smash Brothers'
  • FFA is called Battle Royal (not Royale)
  • Title announcement is 'Dairantou Smash Brothers' and has a duller logo
:luigi64: Luigi
  • Higher jump and double jump
  • Shorter height
  • Lower Up-B
  • Fireball has more hitstun but is 1% weaker
  • Up-B sends opponent slightly higher and sends opponents further to the side
  • Fireball goes farther
  • Shorter roll
  • F-throw does 12% damage and has his (U) B-Throw knockback
  • B-throw does 16% damage and has his (U) F-Throw knockback
:mario64: Mario
  • Shorter height
  • Lower Up-B
  • Fireball has more hitstun but is 1% weaker
  • Fireball goes farther
  • Shorter roll
:dk64: Donkey Kong
  • Can do Japanese turning slide
:link64: Link
  • U-Tilt is 5% stronger and has greater knockback
  • D-Air is 2% stronger
  • U-Smash is 2% stronger all-up (24% instead of 22%)
  • Higher jump and double jump
  • Up-B goes higher
  • Boomerang goes farther
  • Bomb doesn't flinch opponent unless they are at 100%+
  • Up-B and F-Air do 1% more damage sometimes
  • Bomb is 2% stronger when thrown except from above
  • Bomb is 1% stronger when thrown from above
  • N-Air has weaker knockback but a flatter knockback trajectory
  • First kick of B-Air is 1 frame faster
  • Second kick of B-Air has flatter knockback trajectory
  • His sword looks a little longer
:samus64: Samus
  • Up-b has 11 frames of invincibility as opposed to 3 frames in (U)
  • When standing next to and facing towards larger characters, U-Smash only hits with one flame, as opposed to two in (U)
:falcon64: Falcon
  • Higher jump and double jump
  • Up-B goes higher
  • F-Tilt is 1% stronger
  • Running speed is slower
:ness64: Ness
  • Less lag after landing with PK Thunder 2
  • PK Thunder 2's hitbox lasts longer and is 5% stronger
  • U-Tilt is 1% stronger but has lower knockback
  • U-Air is 2% stronger
  • PK Fire is 9% weaker total
  • All smash attacks are 2% stronger at all points
:yoshi64: Yoshi
  • First jump is slightly higher
  • Slower horizontal air movement
  • D-Smash is 1% weaker
  • Can do special Japanese turning slide
:kirby64: Kirby
  • F-Throw has flatter knockback trajectory
  • Up-B goes slightly higher
  • D-Smash is 2% stronger
  • U-Smash is 2% stronger
  • U-Air is 2% stronger for the beginning frames, 1% stronger midway into the attack, same strength for the ending of the attack
  • Down-B is 2% stronger
  • Roll is slightly longer.
  • Can do Japanese turning slide
:fox64: Fox
  • D-Tilt is 2% weaker
  • Up-B has invincibility frames in the beginning
  • Up-B is 3% weaker and has far more horizontal knockback
  • Laser is 1% weaker but has greater knockback
  • D-smash has a horizontal knockback trajectory like (U) U-Tilt
  • Reflected attacks do different amounts of damage
  • Reflector pushes opponents away faster and futher downwards
  • Can do Japanese turning slide
:pikachu64: Pikachu
  • Thunderjolt goes farther
  • F-Smash has shorter hitbox
  • Dash-A has less knockback.
:jigglypuff64: Jigglypuff
  • Down-B is 6% weaker
  • D-Smash has a shorter hitbox (both sides)
  • Can do Japanese turning slide
tl'dr
  • Link and Ness are a LOT better (+1 or +2 tiers)
  • Falcon and Fox have better recovery
  • Fox's D-Smash is weird and his lasers are quite different
  • Kirby is more amazing by a far amount
  • Mario and Luigi have better fireballs
  • Jigglypuff's Rest is weak
  • DK and Samus are essentially unchanged
  • Pika's F-Smash was nerfed
Terminology
fair - forward air attack
bair - back air attack
uair - up air attack
dair - down air attack
nair - neutral air attack
OoS - "Out of Shield" Doing something OoS means to do it while you are shielding.
Gimp - To knock someone off at low percent causing them to lose a stock.
Edge Guard - Keeping your opponent from returning to the stage.
Hitlag -Lag that happens to the player when attacking.
Hitstun -The state of being stunned(not being able to do anything) after hit by an attack.
Knockback - How far you get sent after an attack.
Stale Moves -When ever you hit an opponent with an attack, that attack will start leveling in staleness meaning that it will do less damage and as a result have less knockback. Read more about it here
Spike - Attack that sends the opponent downwards
Johns - Excuses for doing something wrong or losing.
Shine - Fox's down B
Hitbox - The areas where an attack actually damages the opponent. The models do not represent where the actual attack is. View the hitbox threads under technical data.
Hurtbox - Area where you are able to take damage.
Disjointed Hitbox - A hitbox that does not have a hurtbox along with it. Kirby's uptilt would be an example of this.
Tipper - To hit someone with the very top of the hitbox.
Rat - Another name for pikachu

Online Terms​
P2P - Peer-to-Peer. Playing with someone connected directly, not from the sever.
Lag - Slowdown while playing the game online
Delay - Number of frames between when you pressed the button and when it actually happens
Desynch(DS) - When players appear to be doing crazy stuff like running off edges, attacking the air.They are desynched from you. Requires you to restart the game. Happens to everyone, some more than others though.
Kaillera - What the emulators use to connect to servers and host games. Not P2P.
Ping - The time it takes to make the trip from you and the person/server you are playing with, measured in milliseconds. Gets increasingly larger with distance. This also determines how many frames of delay you will get.
Lagstat - Lagstat is the command used by the server to tell how many lag spikes each player has. Used to figure out who's lagging.
Lagreset - Clears the numbers from lagstat so it's easier to see. DOES NOT FIX LAG OR DO ANYTHING RELATED TO IT
Playing Online
Video Guide to setting up EVERYTHING by KnitePhox KnitePhox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oUBzXeRo-E
Emulator Downloads
Project64k Core 2.2 (Get this! Thanks Ownasaurus!
Project64k 1.4 Vista/7/8 Edition (Old)
Project64k 1.4 XP Edition (Old)
Mupen64k
Project64 2.1 w/ AQZ Netplay
Client Only (2011-08-15)
19XXTE Smash 64 Rom Hack

The Smash 64 rom you will have to find on your own or message me and i'll send it to you.
Recommended to get this rom hack, click here. This includes a lot of things by default.
There's three versions (U), (J) and (E) for USA, Japan and Europe. Everyone for the most part plays (U) except Japan.

Skype Groups
Finding someone to play on the server can be hard sometimes. The best way to find good players is to join the skype groups. Download Skype
Ask in this thread for someone to add you to the European Smash Group and/or the North American Smash Group.

Online Ranking
Online Ranking Thread: Rules/Help
Video Tutorial
Online Ranking Website
New players are encouraged to create an account on the website and challenge people from there.


PJ64k Setup
ALL OF THIS IS IMPORTANT!
Plugins
You may also get a bunch of errors after first opening the emulator this is okay. Go to Options->Settings and select the plugins in each of the three boxes.

-Always use Azimer's Audio v0.30 (Old Driver)
-Select whatever Graphics plugin works best for you
-Select your input plugin and set your controls
-MAKE SURE YOU UNCHECK RAW DATA in your controller plugin under Controller Pak or else your controller WILL NOT WORK ONLINE.


Rom Directory
You will need to set your rom directory to where your roms are saved. Press "Refresh Rom List" to see if you set it to the right place.

If you have roms showing up in the window of PJ64 then you did it correctly.

Cheats
You need to have 2 Gameshark codes enabled, System->Gameshark Codes while playing the Smash Bros rom to turn them on.
-Have Mushroom Kingdom (enables item switch) CODE: 800A4937 00FF
-Have all Characters CODE: 810A4938 0FF0
These both should be already in your cheats menu.


Other Settings
Most people use LAN, so make sure you switch.


Mupen64k and PJ64k DO NOT work together

If you get this choose no!

Servers
These are the most popular servers at the moment.
They are both located in the US.
Smash FU 204.62.14.45:27888
Demon Cat 216.52.143.190:27888
You can also use the Master Server list to find servers near your area or post on here or the Skype groups so people can P2P with you! :D


Desynch and Crashes
Pj64 suffers from a lot of problems and unfortunately freezes/crashes a lot, but JaimeHR and KnitePhox KnitePhox made this neat little program that will autoclose PJ64 for you when it crashes. Download

Everyone is effected by Desynches and there's no solution at the moment. On LAN connection setting, ds's happens around 12 mins no matter what.You can avoid dsing sooner than that by not using WiFi to play and making sure you have a stable connection. Also turn off downloads or anything that would slow down your internet. After a ds happens, make sure you leave the server and come back. This makes it less likely that it will ds again sooner than it's supposed to.
There's also a chance that you might get a graphics error while playing. This is common, all you have to do is restart your emulator.

P2P
To be brief, P2P is much more stable and desynchs much less often compared to playing through a server, but requires setup.
There is no lobby to find people to play. P2P Setup Guide

In order to HOST P2P you will need to forward a port (not everyone can do this, you need access to your router)
If you need help ask in the QA Thread

P2P Set-up Project64k 1.4 P2P (Only 2 players)
This is what most people use to play P2P with because it works most of the time and is convenient.

Switch the "Change Mode" box to P2P to host/join a P2P game.

Once you have forwarded your port you can host by copying your IP(click if you don't know it) followed by a colon and the port you're using.


However, a forwarded port is not necessary to JOIN a P2P game. All you have to do is paste the IP under Peer IP


P2P Set-up Project64 2.1 P2P (4 Players)
Project64 2.1 is much better than project64k with less desynches and less lag. There is no kaillera support however, but there is P2P! It also allows 4 player P2P and doesn't crash nearly as often.
Go up to Emulator Downloads and download "Project64 2.1 w/ AQZ Netplay".

First step is to set-up just like you setup pj64k 1.4. Set your rom list and plugins. However, select AQZ Netplay as your input plugin.


Then go to Options->Configure Controller Plugin and select your input plugin.


Now when you start a game you will be presented with this screen.


Start by setting your name. (this is saved so you don't have to do it every time)
Type /name your-name e.g. /name Mint

To host a game type /server (port-you're-hosting-on) e.g. /server 25555
This port will need to be forwarded.

For someone to connect to you they need to type /connect ip-of-hoster port-of-hoster e.g. /connect 1.2.3.4 25555

You can adjust the delay if necessary by typing /lag number-of-frames e.g. /lag 3

Then finally just type /start to start the game.

Source Code for the Kaillera client in case you want to help out and know what you're doing. Contact Firo as well.
https://code.google.com/p/p2pkaillera/downloads/list
Tier List/Matchups/Ruleset
The Tier List
DISCLAIMER: The tier list is intended for high level play ONLY. How you do with Samus with your friends doesn't mean anything in a competitive environment.

The current tier list:

Note: This list was made before the Hyrule ruleset ban and is subject to change.

Individual Match-ups

(from this thread)
Note: This chart is from 2010 and is subject to change.
Current Ruleset
Game Settings

  • Mode: STOCK
  • Stocks: 5
  • Handicap: OFF
  • Team Attack: ON
  • Stage Select: ON
  • Damage: 100%
  • Item Switch: NONE
  • All Characters Available
  • All sets are best-of-3 except for the following which are best-of-5:
    Winners Semis, Winners Finals, Losers Quarters, 5th place tiebreaker, Losers Semis, Losers Finals, and
    Grand Finals
Starter Stages

  • Dream Land (First Match is always played on Dream Land)
Counter Pick Stages

  • Congo Jungle, Peach’s Castle
Characters

  • All characters are legal.
  • For visibility reasons, players may request that Black DK (Right-C), Dark Samus (Down-C) and Dark Falcon
    (Right-C) not be used if Congo Jungle is the stage. The opposing player may reset the match without
    penalty if they wish for a color change. Taking or dealing any damage nullifies this right.
Set Procedure

  1. Players select characters for first match. Double Blind Picks may be called.
  2. The first match is played.
  3. The loser of the previous match selects the next match’s stage from the Starter Stage and Counter pick Stage Lists.
  4. The winner of the previous match selects their character.
  5. The loser of the previous match selects their character.
  6. The next match is played.
  7. Above four steps are repeated if necessary.
  8. Players may not counterpick to a counterpick stage they already won on that they picked themselves.
Additional Rules

  • Any stage may be played on if both players agree to it.
  • Alternate or custom controllers/adapters such as a keyboard, Gamecube controller or a Hori Mini Pad are allowed.Players suspected of using turbo functions or other macros are subject to immediate disqualification from the tournament.
  • If a player pauses without prior agreement from the other opponent, the opponent has the right to gain a stock or take away the pauser’s stock from the moment of the pause and begin a rematch where both players’ percentages are reset to zero. The opponent also has the option to simply force the pauser to forfeit a stock without restarting the match.
  • Extreme stalling is disallowed. Any reported case of such will result in a warning, followed by automatic forfeit of the match as per the discretion of the TO. If there is no movement from either player, the losing player is considered to be stalling.
Technical Data/Useful Threads
Channels/Videos/Streams
Our Videos Section

Click name to go to a user's Youtube channel and "Profile" to go to their Smashboards Profile.

3mmanu3lrc [Profile]
A$ [Profile]
ballin4life [Profile]
Battlecow [Profile]
bloodpeach [Profile]
Dext3r [Profile]
Dragoon Fighter [Profile]
Fruity [Profile]
Han Solo [Profile]
Isai [Profile]
JaimeHR [Profile]
Karajan [Profile]
Killer [Profile]
Kimimaru [Profile]
KingFunk [Profile]
Knitephox [ KnitePhox KnitePhox ]
Korobeniki [ KoRoBeNiKi KoRoBeNiKi ]
Koroshiyo
LD [Profile]
MATTS! [Profile]
Metroid [Profile]
mixa [ mixa mixa ]
Nintendude [Profile]
Nova [Profile]
Purtle [Profile]
Sangoku/Squall [ Sangoku Sangoku ]
Sensei [Profile]
SheerMadness [Profile]
Star King [ The Star King The Star King ]
SuPeRbOoMfAn [ SuPeRbOoM SuPeRbOoM ]
SuperDoo [Profile]
Swedish Smash [Profile]
The Z [Profile]
Twilight Sparkle [Profile]
WOTG [Profile]

Combo Creators (some also upload matches)
B Link [Profile]
Blaze [Profile]
Emmi [Profile]
Firo [Profile]
Hikari [Profile]
Mariguas [Profile]
MrMarbles [Profile]
Pete [Profile]
Pooncahontas [Profile]
RickySSB [Profile]
Sempiternity [Profile]
sextc iXi [Profile]
Shade [Profile]
Tambor [Profile]
TANK [Profile]
Timotheus [Profile]

Peru
Alancitu [Profile]
GohanSmash
Tacna
Tacna Allstars
TXWproduction

Tournament Coverage
Team Spooky
8wayrun
Clash Tournaments
Bloodpeach Tournament Coverage [Profile]
Chain Ace Tournament Coverage [Profile]

Japanese Version
Prince
Red
Red 2?
Keshiki [Profile]
Tatuman [Profile]
yaneyane (Uploads lots of matches)
gonbenokuni
yodaredaradara
hijiki
Mixa's Japanese Matches Playlist

Good threads for Japanese videos
http://smashboards.com/threads/japanese-ssb64-video-thread.318630/
http://smashboards.com/threads/japanese-tournament-matches-video-thread-info.339472/

Streams
Isai (Tuesday Nights) [Thread]
ILOVESMASH
Clubba [Thread]
SuPeRbOoMfAn [Thread]
SheerMadness
Caneut [Thread]
B Link
Knitephox
Stranded/Kero/Maliki [Thread]

Tournament Streams
Team Spooky
8WayRun
ClashTournaments
FAQ
Q: What is the best setting for range and deadzone?
A: What ever feels best for you, 76-80% Range and 0-5% Deadzone is what boom recommends with the Nrage plugin.
Also use this test to find out if your settings are off. You should be able to jump from corner to corner using one stick jump as Yoshi.

Q: How do I record the game?
A: I would suggest using separate video recording software, but you can use the built in record function by checking the "Record" checkbox before starting a game. It is found near the other buttons such as Start,LagStat, Leave, etc. It will save to a .krec file however.

Q: Which adapter is the best?
A: Many people suggest getting the raphnet adapter and it is debatably the best , the mayflash is cheaper and will work as well.

Q: None of my games show up when I try to create a game or I can't join a game.
A: Make sure you set your rom directory to where your roms are located and refreshed your rom list.

Q: My controller feels stiff or doesn't work.
A: Make sure you calibrated your controller in windows and unchecked raw data in your input plugin.

Q: How do I escape DK infinite grab spam?
A: Mash hard, alternate between all four directions and A B works best. Click here
Also check out the technical data thread in the technical data section of this thread.

Q: How do I do tilts when using a keyboard?
A: You need to buffer your attacks. That is, you need to be already holding the direction of the tilt you want to do before you hit the A button.

Q: How do I break out of Samus's up b?
A: You have to DI down, if you don't get it right away DI up. Video Guide

Q: How do I taunt cancel :coolmonke:
A: Taunt before touching near the ledge. The "almost falling" animation will cancel the taunt animation. Letting the wind on dreamland push you towards the ledge works too.

If you have a technical or frame data question view the technical data threads first.
Still have a question? Ask here
 
Last edited:

asianaussie

Smash Debater
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
9,343
Location
Sayonara Memories
#2
im all for letting someone else take the index, mine is cluttered and sucky and i literally cannot edit it (sangoku is doing it all for me)

you have to keep the dirk king thing in the title though
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
#11
*Le mien or was it a typo'ed mine?

Good stuff M!nt I will maybe make a longer post with things to add if I come up with some, but for now my advice is the same as what I told aa: I suggest you remove all spoiler tags because I think they only give you a fake feeling of order and more importantly, they remove a ctrl+f possibility.

Do we all agree to change the stickies then?

By the way aa, I already told you how to edit long posts lol.
 
Last edited:

mixa

Banned (6 Points)
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
2,005
Location
Isle of ゆぅ
#12
M!nt, you could add this to the jp videos section, and maybe Karajan's playlists too, although that's unlisted so I wouldn't know.

*Le mien or was it a typo'ed mine?
It was intentionally ambiguous, so I did think mien without the article could be correct.
 
Last edited:

Sedda

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
2,393
Location
Luigi sucks
#14
This new one is good if it's kept short an simple. Don't worry about making sure EVERY detail is on here.

Reading through the index the first time I was here was overwhelming, so short and simple plz
 

M!nt

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
2,087
#17
M!nt, you could add this to the jp videos section, and maybe Karajan's playlists too, although that's unlisted so I wouldn't know.
I only found 2 of his playlists part 2 and part 4, maybe he or you could post the other 2 parts? c:

Good stuff M!nt I will maybe make a longer post with things to add if I come up with some, but for now my advice is the same as what I told aa: I suggest you remove all spoiler tags because I think they only give you a fake feeling of order and more importantly, they remove a ctrl+f possibility.
That would be nice of you. It looks pretty ugly without the spoilers, I think I organized it into a small amount of spoilers that whatever you are looking for at most you would have to open 2 spoilers, but i'll remove them and see what you guys think. EDIT-Actually it looks horrible without the spoilers and I think it's easier to find stuff even without ctrl-f, I think super long blocks of text look unappealing to someone that just wanders in here, and that's actually who this thread is for.
 
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asianaussie

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#18
Because the index isn't stickied for you, but for everyone lol. If everyone except from you thought yours was better I wouldn't change.
there's been enough thinly veiled disapproval thrown around (that i mostly agree with) that i feel you didn't really need more input, aside from the thread owner's
 

Sangoku

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#20
there's been enough thinly veiled disapproval thrown around (that i mostly agree with) that i feel you didn't really need more input, aside from the thread owner's
Just wanted to be sure as I don't want to hurt anyone's feeling.

M!nt: alright I agree that 2 level of spoilers shouldn't be too impractical (although I already see 3 lol). The attack name table is a great idea. So my suggestions now (maybe you already thought of them):
-Adding s2j's advanced tech guide. A little bit outdated, but it still explains pretty well most AT's.
-Online: adding a glossary with terms such as p2p, delay, ping, lag, ds/desynch, etc. It might sound intuitive, but I remember I had no idea what a ping was when I started playing online.
-Adding the current competitive recommended ruleset.
-Maybe a tier list/matchup chart, but this is arguable.

That's all I can think of for now.

mixa the uair on keyboard video on your playlist is wrong. Pressing a then up the next frame yields to a nair. It has to be a simultaneous press.
 

M!nt

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#21
If there's a matchup chart, could you please link it?
-Maybe a tier list/matchup chart, but this is arguable.
Are they the same even though hyrule has been banned? The matchup chart is from like 2009 :( I guess I'll post them anyway
M!nt: alright I agree that 2 level of spoilers shouldn't be too impractical (although I already see 3 lol).
The only one that has 3 levels of spoilers is Controls and that shouldn't really be something you need finding unless you're looking for the Contols which you can find under just one spoiler :) Most of everything is just under 1 spoiler.

I'll add the rest of that stuff thanks!
 
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mixa

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#22
mixa the uair on keyboard video on your playlist is wrong. Pressing a then up the next frame yields to a nair. It has to be a simultaneous press.
I had forgotten about the details of the video, my bad. I now recall having discussed that with the creator at the time.
 
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SuPeRbOoM

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#23
"Q: What is the best settings for range and deadzone?
A: What ever feels best for you, ~70% Range and ~5% Deadzone is what most people recommend."

Should be around 76-80/0-5 for emulator, and it's also important to note that this is under nrage controller plugin.
Although the ultimate test for your joystick should be this video: http://www.livestream.com/isaissb/v...17b2&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb
You should be comparing the difficulty of your stick jumps between console and emulator and adjusting your range as much as you can to console.
 

M!nt

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#27
You should wait until someone like Star King who uses a keyboard to answer, but I don't think you should pick a character solely because of what kind of controller you are using. Just play what ever character you feel is easiest or fun to use. A lot of keyboard players have really good kirbys though so there's that.
 
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mixa

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#28
What charc should i play if im using a keyboard.
Whatever, just make sure your input config does not hinder any movement option or techniques. Granted, if you're learning the game - as opposed to coming from console - you won't know what those techniques are early on. One example is jumping out of shield and its variations: up-B and u-smash out of shield.

I'm not as inclined to practice with DK because 7/9 of the fun is plat drop uairs, and it's hard to do that on keyboard.
 
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asianaussie

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#29
falcon is fairly easy on keyboard because auto-stick jumps, also forces you to learn platdrop u-airs at some point

link, ness and to a lesser extent kirby will really help you learn how to buffer unconsciously
 

mixa

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#30
Keyboard DI - frozen hitlag tests (Madao's table)

Contrary to popular belief, if you're on keyboard and, for instance, hold down and mash left / right, you won't get more inputs than what is actually being pressed.
When a human does that sequence, there'll be frames inbetween left and right. Basically what is happening is:

frame 1: ↓←
frame 2: ↓
frame 3: ↓→
frame 4: ↓

From that people assume you get 4 inputs, but you won't get the pure down input inbetween the mashing, you'll only get diagonal down left (←↓) and diagonal down right (↓→).
2 key presses = 2 inputs registered. This isn't news, by the way.
This is true for all combinations contained in holding one of the keys (↑,↓,→,←) and mashing one or two other adjacent ones -- which is what the basic quarter-circle DI motion is.

However, it's possible to get that buffered input to register. It's probably not the same in every keyboard, but in mine, if I wanted to DI away (let's say away is right), I can:
Hold ↑ and →, and mash ↓.

frame 1: ↑→↓ = registers diagonal down
frame 2: ↑→ = registers diagonal up
frame 3: ↑→↓ = registers diagonal down
frame 4: ↑→ = registers diagonal up

Now with 2 key presses I get 4 inputs registered. i.e. letting go of the key is now a valid input.
This also works if you exchange → for ←, but it doesn't work if you wish to DI vertically.

haxxxxx
 

Sangoku

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#32
mixa: yeah that's why I have proposed this "hold down and alternate between right and left" method. Precisely because it gives you the two inputs needed for a perfect slide DI.

Also I don't think there was any popular belief, because I've been alone saying this lol. I don't think anyone adopted this technique (I think SK said the fact it's impractical makes up for the optimal press).
 

mixa

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#33
It's a popular belief because I remember anti-KB people saying that as an argument for how broken kb is. At the time I even replied saying I thought it probably wasn't the case.

I've been using that technique for a while now, and I don't find it impractical at all (holding down or up and mashing left + right). But whether you should use that or simply mash up, it's dependent on how fast you can press up vs how fast you can press left/right, since the vertical distance you get from pressing down is the same as down+side.
 
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#34
Ban @ The Star King The Star King @ KoRoBeNiKi KoRoBeNiKi and killer (stupid special characters I can't figure out how to tag him).

And @ KuroganeHammer KuroganeHammer just because.
The second method doesn't even work for me. When I try that I actually get no DI at all. Zero.

The first one works for me but gets me slightly less or about the same DI compared to just mashing... in normal speed. In 1/4 speed it actually gives me way more lol. I'm guessing because at 15 frames per second in 1/4, it's pretty easy to mash faster than the 7.5 inputs a second you need for frame perfect single direction mashing, so the alternating method's advantage of being to get a direction every frame overpowers pure mashing method's advantage being easier to mash a single direction.

But it being better in 1/4 is irrelevent. In actual 100% speed gameplay, just mashing seems better to me.
 
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mixa

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#35
Differences in Japanese Version


I wanted to discuss this, which is without a doubt the most significant difference between the American and Japanese version of the game, aside from Ness being really good if you know how to use him, as opposed to just good.

"Differences in Japanese Version"
  • Much less capability for DI
  • Less attack stun for ATTACKING player
The first one is a no-brainer: characters simply move less with each DI input. Anyone can see that.
How much less, or how much smaller/wider is the DI window is, however, unknown because I can't work the Madao Magic in the J version.

Now for the second one, I've always had a problem with that one, so I'll try to shed some light into it. By the way, I was reminded of it while hearing today's commentary for the NJ tournament, which concluded that that makes comboing easier in the J version.

Attack stun. What is it meant by it?
Not too long ago I made this breakdown of a move connecting. Here's what's happening in that video:

[collapse= -- Phases of a move --]
[/collapse]
If the previous link for the video is broken, try this one.

Some variable must be smaller in the Japanese version.

  • It's not Hitlag, since both players share the same hitlag (except for projectiles), thus it can give no advantage.
  • It's not Ending lag, because when making Frame Display for the U version, I was comparing it to the J one, and it was exactly the same for almost all moves. I didn't check every single one, but just about any move I pick, all the information pertaining to this discussion (starting and ending lag, hitbox frames, total frames) is the same.
  • Shield stun is interesting, since the Ending lag is the same in both versions but the shield stun in the Japanese is higher. How significant is that advantage? Other than "As Fox you can probably maybe jab on shield more, but it's still not Han Solo safe", I don't really know.
But shield stun is kind of another thing. All we have left is Hitstun, and I don't how to compare this one.

I guess the original poster for these regional differences, Isai, just has a sensibility that enables him to notice this by simply playing... ? Back then there probably wasn't a website with data about the J version, let alone the U one.

So which is it, what is the conclusion of this long bs post? I don't know.

“It's Japanese mystery.”
 
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Madao

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#36
Lol mixa's post inspired me to work that magic and debug the J version. Thank goodness changing 1 offset in cheat engine converted most of the important variables to their J version addresses. First of all, the DI speed is 1.5 instead of 2.1. It seems weird that that J version loads a constant (1.5), while the US version loads a value from a memory address. Another thing I noticed is that the attacker and defender have the same hitlag in J version. J version has 1 less frame of hitlag than US version.

Also, your breakdown video link doesn't work.
 
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mixa

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#37
Cool! So DI on the U version is 40% stronger, and there is always an additional frame in the DI window. Good stuff.

Also, your breakdown video link doesn't work.
Fixed the link.


Samus up-B (possibly all drills) has 5 hitlag frames each time it hits. On J, it has 4 hitlag frames. So the U version allows for a stronger DI and more time to apply it.

This also means that for the Japanese the game runs faster in a way, because for instance Fox can hit up to 7 times with his drill, this means saving 7 frames whenever a drill connects. Kirby hits 10 times with his dair, saving 10 frames, etc.

Accounting for all the drills that exist in the game (all moves, actually) and that connect in a match, and ultimately in all games, I can't believe how we're still playing the U version in tournaments. We'd have more time for friendlies if we played with faster drills. Just sayin'
 
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