1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 225,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

  3. Use the Smashboards Store to get awesome Smash stuff and support the site, like a Nintendo Controller or the Wii U - Gamecube adaptor ! Check out the inventory in our store and support Smashboards with your purchase today!

Smash 64 Index (READ HERE FIRST)

Discussion in 'Smash 64 Discussion' started by M!nt, Mar 15, 2014.

  1. M!nt

    M!nt
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    General Information/Techniques
    Grounded
    Attack Button
    1 Jab [​IMG]
    2 Forward Tilt (FTilt) [​IMG] [​IMG]
    3 Up Tilt (UTilt) [​IMG] [​IMG]
    4 Down Tilt (DTilt) [​IMG] [​IMG]
    5 Forward Smash(FSmash) [​IMG]+ [​IMG]
    6 Up Smash(USmash) [​IMG] +[​IMG]
    7 Down Smash(DSmash) [​IMG] +[​IMG]
    8 Dash Attack [​IMG](While Running)
    9 Forward Throw(FThrow) [​IMG][​IMG] or [​IMG] +[​IMG][​IMG]
    10 Back Throw(BThrow) [​IMG] [​IMG]or [​IMG] +[​IMG] [​IMG]
    11 Taunt [​IMG]
    12 Jump [​IMG] ,[​IMG] ,[​IMG] or [​IMG]
    13 Shield [​IMG] or [​IMG](Buffered)

    In the Air
    Attack Button
    1 Neutral Air (Nair) [​IMG]
    2 Forward Air(Fair) [​IMG] [​IMG]
    3 Back Air (Bair) [​IMG] [​IMG]
    4 Up Air (Uair) [​IMG] [​IMG]
    5 Down Air (Dair) [​IMG] [​IMG]
    6 Jump [​IMG], [​IMG], [​IMG] or [​IMG]

    Specials
    Attack Button
    1 Neutral B [​IMG]
    2 Up B [​IMG] [​IMG]
    3 Down B [​IMG] [​IMG]
    For more detail on techniques look at this guide by dch111
    Also check out these amazing video guides to advanced techniques by Tom Bombadil Part 1 Part 2 Part 3
    Overview
    Character Specific

    Z-Cancel:Z-canceling is very important in Smash 64. This is done by pressing the Z button just before touching the ground after an air attack.
    This removes all of the landing lag, allowing you to use lots of attacks one after another.
    [​IMG]
    Notice how red link's dair ends much faster, this is why z-canceling is extremely useful.

    Directional Influence(DI): DI is also an important part of smash 64. It allows you to break out of combos and can allow you to survive a hit that would normally kill you.
    Summary
    Video Guide on DI
    Other Videos on DI
    Reverse DI Guide

    Shorthop: This is exactly what it sounds like, a small jump by quickly tapping the c button.
    Useful to combo your opponent at low percentage.

    Teching: You can tech after being knocked down from an attack by hitting the Z button. This causes you to quickly get up.
    You can also press left and right to tech in different directions.

    Stick Jump: A stick jump(done by pressing up quickly on the control stick) will cause you to jump higher than using a c button.
    This is useful for when you are just barely away from connecting a combo or just need to jump a little higher.
    Range affects how high your stick jump will send you: Video

    Pivoting: Pressing one direction and then immediately pressing the other will cause your character to pivot.
    This is important and helps you set up combos. Video Guide

    Shield Dropping: Dropping from a platform is faster if you're in your shield before pressing down.
    You should make a habit out of pressing Z before platform dropping. This also stops you from ducking when you meant to platform drop.

    Fastfall: Pressing down at the top of your jump while in the air to fall faster than you would normally.

    Edgehog: For a little bit after you grab the edge, you get invincibility frames and also prevent your opponent from grabbing the edge.
    This allows you to easily gimp characters with bad recoveries such as Falcon,Ness or Fox.

    Crouch Cancel: Holding down to duck before getting hit will reduce the knockback of an attack.

    Character Specific Techniques
    :falcon64:Falcon Video Guide:falcon64:
    :yoshi64:Yoshi Video Guide:yoshi64:

    Jab Grab: Only usable by Pikachu, Mario, Luigi and Ness. By performing a jab and then a grab after will cause the character to jab and grab together. This is useful for when someone is on the ground and you can't grab them. Video Guide

    Double Jump Cancel(DJC): Only usable by Ness and Yoshi. This allows you to do many attacks quickly one after another.
    You do this by using your double jump and then quickly doing an air attack. You can do this by sliding your thumb from right C, down C and then A or by using Firo's Method. Ness Example
    Yoshi DJC Shieldbreak Practice Tutorial

    Parry: Only usable by Yoshi. This is done by pressing shield at the exact moment you're hit, Yoshi will take no damage or knockback
    Example

    Egg Cancel Only usable by Yoshi. Throwing an egg(UpB) while grabbing the ledge will cause Yoshi to grab the ledge while still throwing an egg.

    Yoshi Bomb Cancel Only usable by Yoshi. Ground pounding(DownB) while over or next to a ledge will cancel the attack and allow Yoshi to grab the ledge.

    Charge Cancel: Only usable by DK and Samus. By pressing Z while charging your punch or charge shot, you cancel the charge up while keeping the amount you charged.
    For DK while in the air this allows him to change directions, so that he can grab onto the ledge.

    Shine Cancel: Only usable by Fox. Pressing Down B to shine immediately after a jump will cancel your jump causing you to do a very quick Shine.
    It can also be shield break :D Example

    SHDL(Short Hop Double Laser): Only usable by Fox. If you are quick enough and time it right you can get two lasers out during a shorthop.
    This is incredibly useful for fox to space around opponents Example
    Kirby can also do this if he has Fox's power, but it turns into a Short Hop Triple Laser(SHTL) o_O


    Guide to Essential Combos
    Part 1 (Falcon-Luigi-Jigglypuff)
    Part 2 (Fox-Mario-Samus)

    Character Threads
    :falcon64:Falcon
    :fox64:Fox
    :ness64:Ness
    :link64:Link
    :mario64:Mario
    :luigi64:Luigi
    :yoshi64:Yoshi
    :dk64:Donkey Kong
    :samus64:Samus
    :pikachu64:Pikachu
    :jigglypuff64:Jigglypuff
    :kirby64:Kirby
    Taken from this post thanks Star King!
    All Characters
    • Get-up attacks
    • Ledge attacks
    :luigi64:Luigi:
    • Dash Attack
    • D-Air
    • Weak Up-B
    • Taunt
    :mario64:Mario:
    • D-Air
    • Down-B
    • All but last hit of Up-B
    :dk64:Donkey Kong (F-Throw grab release isn't constant lol):
    • Dash Attack
    • Up-B
    • Down-B
    :link64:Link:
    • First two hits of U-Smash
    :samus64:Samus:
    • U-Air
    • Up-B
    :falcon64:Falcon:
    • None
    :ness64:Ness (his D-Tilt causes people to fall at like 900%+ lol):
    • All hits of Neutral-B but the initial
    :yoshi64:Yoshi:
    • U-Tilt
    • D-Tilt
    • Neutral-B (If that counts)
    • Down-B landing stars
    :kirby64:Kirby:
    • U-Air
    • All but last aerial hit of F-Air
    • Landing hit of F-Air/N-Air/D-Air
    • Neutral-B copy/spit-out/release (if those count)
    • Rising and falling hit of Up-B (not the shockwave)
    :fox64:Fox:
    • Down-angled F-Tilt
    • First hit U-Air
    • D-Air
    • Neutral-B
    • Down-B
    :pikachu64:Pikachu:
    • F-Air (Not the uncanceled landing hit)
    :jigglypuff64:Jigglypuff:
    • D-Air (Not the uncanceled landing hit)
    Thanks aa! c:
    Original post from Isai is here.

    General Differences
    • DI is 40% weaker and 1 less frame in DI window
    • 1 less frame of hitlag
    • Attacker and one being attacked have the same hitlag.
    • Sounds for body hits are different and very cartoony (think BIFF, SWOP, etc)
    • Jigglypuff is called Purin
    • Name is 'All Star! Dairantou Smash Brothers'
    • FFA is called Battle Royal (not Royale)
    • Title announcement is 'Dairantou Smash Brothers' and has a duller logo
    :luigi64: Luigi
    • Higher jump and double jump
    • Shorter height
    • Lower Up-B
    • Fireball has more hitstun but is 1% weaker
    • Up-B sends opponent slightly higher and sends opponents further to the side
    • Fireball goes farther
    • Shorter roll
    • F-throw does 12% damage and has his (U) B-Throw knockback
    • B-throw does 16% damage and has his (U) F-Throw knockback
    :mario64: Mario
    • Shorter height
    • Lower Up-B
    • Fireball has more hitstun but is 1% weaker
    • Fireball goes farther
    • Shorter roll
    :dk64: Donkey Kong
    • Can do Japanese turning slide
    :link64: Link
    • U-Tilt is 5% stronger and has greater knockback
    • D-Air is 2% stronger
    • U-Smash is 2% stronger all-up (24% instead of 22%)
    • Higher jump and double jump
    • Up-B goes higher
    • Boomerang goes farther
    • Bomb doesn't flinch opponent unless they are at 100%+
    • Up-B and F-Air do 1% more damage sometimes
    • Bomb is 2% stronger when thrown except from above
    • Bomb is 1% stronger when thrown from above
    • N-Air has weaker knockback but a flatter knockback trajectory
    • First kick of B-Air is 1 frame faster
    • Second kick of B-Air has flatter knockback trajectory
    • His sword looks a little longer
    :samus64: Samus
    • Up-b has 11 frames of invincibility as opposed to 3 frames in (U)
    • When standing next to and facing towards larger characters, U-Smash only hits with one flame, as opposed to two in (U)
    :falcon64: Falcon
    • Higher jump and double jump
    • Up-B goes higher
    • F-Tilt is 1% stronger
    • Running speed is slower
    :ness64: Ness
    • Less lag after landing with PK Thunder 2
    • PK Thunder 2's hitbox lasts longer and is 5% stronger
    • U-Tilt is 1% stronger but has lower knockback
    • U-Air is 2% stronger
    • PK Fire is 9% weaker total
    • All smash attacks are 2% stronger at all points
    :yoshi64: Yoshi
    • First jump is slightly higher
    • Slower horizontal air movement
    • D-Smash is 1% weaker
    • Can do special Japanese turning slide
    :kirby64: Kirby
    • F-Throw has flatter knockback trajectory
    • Up-B goes slightly higher
    • D-Smash is 2% stronger
    • U-Smash is 2% stronger
    • U-Air is 2% stronger for the beginning frames, 1% stronger midway into the attack, same strength for the ending of the attack
    • Down-B is 2% stronger
    • Roll is slightly longer.
    • Can do Japanese turning slide
    :fox64: Fox
    • D-Tilt is 2% weaker
    • Up-B has invincibility frames in the beginning
    • Up-B is 3% weaker and has far more horizontal knockback
    • Laser is 1% weaker but has greater knockback
    • D-smash has a horizontal knockback trajectory like (U) U-Tilt
    • Reflected attacks do different amounts of damage
    • Reflector pushes opponents away faster and futher downwards
    • Can do Japanese turning slide
    :pikachu64: Pikachu
    • Thunderjolt goes farther
    • F-Smash has shorter hitbox
    • Dash-A has less knockback.
    :jigglypuff64: Jigglypuff
    • Down-B is 6% weaker
    • D-Smash has a shorter hitbox (both sides)
    • Can do Japanese turning slide
    tl'dr
    • Link and Ness are a LOT better (+1 or +2 tiers)
    • Falcon and Fox have better recovery
    • Fox's D-Smash is weird and his lasers are quite different
    • Kirby is more amazing by a far amount
    • Mario and Luigi have better fireballs
    • Jigglypuff's Rest is weak
    • DK and Samus are essentially unchanged
    • Pika's F-Smash was nerfed
    Terminology
    Playing Online
    Video Guide to setting up EVERYTHING by Knitephox
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oUBzXeRo-E
    Emulator Downloads
    Project64k Core 2.2 (Get this! Thanks Ownasaurus!
    Project64k 1.4 Vista/7/8 Edition (Old)
    Project64k 1.4 XP Edition (Old)
    Mupen64k
    Project64 2.1 w/ AQZ Netplay
    Client Only (2011-08-15)
    19XXTE Smash 64 Rom Hack

    The Smash 64 rom you will have to find on your own or message me and i'll send it to you.
    Recommended to get this rom hack, click here. This includes a lot of things by default.
    There's three versions (U), (J) and (E) for USA, Japan and Europe. Everyone for the most part plays (U) except Japan.

    Skype Groups
    Finding someone to play on the server can be hard sometimes. The best way to find good players is to join the skype groups. Download Skype
    Ask in this thread for someone to add you to the European Smash Group and/or the North American Smash Group.

    Online Ranking
    Online Ranking Thread: Rules/Help
    Video Tutorial
    Online Ranking Website
    New players are encouraged to create an account on the website and challenge people from there.


    PJ64k Setup
    ALL OF THIS IS IMPORTANT!
    Plugins
    You may also get a bunch of errors after first opening the emulator this is okay. Go to Options->Settings and select the plugins in each of the three boxes.

    -Always use Azimer's Audio v0.30 (Old Driver)
    -Select whatever Graphics plugin works best for you
    -Select your input plugin and set your controls
    -MAKE SURE YOU UNCHECK RAW DATA in your controller plugin under Controller Pak or else your controller WILL NOT WORK ONLINE.
    [​IMG]

    Rom Directory
    You will need to set your rom directory to where your roms are saved. Press "Refresh Rom List" to see if you set it to the right place.
    [​IMG]
    If you have roms showing up in the window of PJ64 then you did it correctly.

    Cheats
    You need to have 2 Gameshark codes enabled, System->Gameshark Codes while playing the Smash Bros rom to turn them on.
    -Have Mushroom Kingdom (enables item switch) CODE: 800A4937 00FF
    -Have all Characters CODE: 810A4938 0FF0
    These both should be already in your cheats menu.
    [​IMG]

    Other Settings
    Most people use LAN, so make sure you switch.
    [​IMG]

    Mupen64k and PJ64k DO NOT work together
    [​IMG]
    If you get this choose no!

    Servers
    These are the most popular servers at the moment.
    They are both located in the US.
    Smash FU 204.62.14.45:27888
    Demon Cat 216.52.143.190:27888
    You can also use the Master Server list to find servers near your area or post on here or the Skype groups so people can P2P with you! :D
    [​IMG]

    Desynch and Crashes
    Pj64 suffers from a lot of problems and unfortunately freezes/crashes a lot, but JaimeHR and Knitephox made this neat little program that will autoclose PJ64 for you when it crashes. Download

    Everyone is effected by Desynches and there's no solution at the moment. On LAN connection setting, ds's happens around 12 mins no matter what.You can avoid dsing sooner than that by not using WiFi to play and making sure you have a stable connection. Also turn off downloads or anything that would slow down your internet. After a ds happens, make sure you leave the server and come back. This makes it less likely that it will ds again sooner than it's supposed to.
    There's also a chance that you might get a graphics error while playing. This is common, all you have to do is restart your emulator.

    P2P
    To be brief, P2P is much more stable and desynchs much less often compared to playing through a server, but requires setup.
    There is no lobby to find people to play. P2P Setup Guide

    In order to HOST P2P you will need to forward a port (not everyone can do this, you need access to your router)
    If you need help ask in the QA Thread

    P2P Set-up Project64k 1.4 P2P (Only 2 players)
    This is what most people use to play P2P with because it works most of the time and is convenient.

    Switch the "Change Mode" box to P2P to host/join a P2P game.

    Once you have forwarded your port you can host by copying your IP(click if you don't know it) followed by a colon and the port you're using.
    [​IMG]

    However, a forwarded port is not necessary to JOIN a P2P game. All you have to do is paste the IP under Peer IP
    [​IMG]

    P2P Set-up Project64 2.1 P2P (4 Players)
    Project64 2.1 is much better than project64k with less desynches and less lag. There is no kaillera support however, but there is P2P! It also allows 4 player P2P and doesn't crash nearly as often.
    Go up to Emulator Downloads and download "Project64 2.1 w/ AQZ Netplay".

    First step is to set-up just like you setup pj64k 1.4. Set your rom list and plugins. However, select AQZ Netplay as your input plugin.
    [​IMG]

    Then go to Options->Configure Controller Plugin and select your input plugin.
    [​IMG]

    Now when you start a game you will be presented with this screen.
    [​IMG]

    Start by setting your name. (this is saved so you don't have to do it every time)
    Type /name your-name e.g. /name Mint

    To host a game type /server (port-you're-hosting-on) e.g. /server 25555
    This port will need to be forwarded.

    For someone to connect to you they need to type /connect ip-of-hoster port-of-hoster e.g. /connect 1.2.3.4 25555

    You can adjust the delay if necessary by typing /lag number-of-frames e.g. /lag 3

    Then finally just type /start to start the game.

    Source Code for the Kaillera client in case you want to help out and know what you're doing. Contact Firo as well.
    https://code.google.com/p/p2pkaillera/downloads/list
    Tier List/Matchups/Ruleset
    The Tier List
    DISCLAIMER: The tier list is intended for high level play ONLY. How you do with Samus with your friends doesn't mean anything in a competitive environment.

    The current tier list:
    [​IMG]
    Note: This list was made before the Hyrule ruleset ban and is subject to change.

    Individual Match-ups
    [​IMG]
    (from this thread)
    Note: This chart is from 2010 and is subject to change.
    Current Ruleset
    Game Settings

    • Mode: STOCK
    • Stocks: 5
    • Handicap: OFF
    • Team Attack: ON
    • Stage Select: ON
    • Damage: 100%
    • Item Switch: NONE
    • All Characters Available
    • All sets are best-of-3 except for the following which are best-of-5:
      Winners Semis, Winners Finals, Losers Quarters, 5th place tiebreaker, Losers Semis, Losers Finals, and
      Grand Finals
    Starter Stages

    • Dream Land (First Match is always played on Dream Land)
    Counter Pick Stages

    • Congo Jungle, Peach’s Castle
    Characters

    • All characters are legal.
    • For visibility reasons, players may request that Black DK (Right-C), Dark Samus (Down-C) and Dark Falcon
      (Right-C) not be used if Congo Jungle is the stage. The opposing player may reset the match without
      penalty if they wish for a color change. Taking or dealing any damage nullifies this right.
    Set Procedure

    1. Players select characters for first match. Double Blind Picks may be called.
    2. The first match is played.
    3. The loser of the previous match selects the next match’s stage from the Starter Stage and Counter pick Stage Lists.
    4. The winner of the previous match selects their character.
    5. The loser of the previous match selects their character.
    6. The next match is played.
    7. Above four steps are repeated if necessary.
    8. Players may not counterpick to a counterpick stage they already won on that they picked themselves.
    Additional Rules

    • Any stage may be played on if both players agree to it.
    • Alternate or custom controllers/adapters such as a keyboard, Gamecube controller or a Hori Mini Pad are allowed.Players suspected of using turbo functions or other macros are subject to immediate disqualification from the tournament.
    • If a player pauses without prior agreement from the other opponent, the opponent has the right to gain a stock or take away the pauser’s stock from the moment of the pause and begin a rematch where both players’ percentages are reset to zero. The opponent also has the option to simply force the pauser to forfeit a stock without restarting the match.
    • Extreme stalling is disallowed. Any reported case of such will result in a warning, followed by automatic forfeit of the match as per the discretion of the TO. If there is no movement from either player, the losing player is considered to be stalling.
    Technical Data/Useful Threads
    Channels/Videos/Streams
    Our Videos Section

    Click name to go to a user's Youtube channel and "Profile" to go to their Smashboards Profile.

    3mmanu3lrc [Profile]
    A$ [Profile]
    ballin4life [Profile]
    Battlecow [Profile]
    bloodpeach [Profile]
    Dext3r [Profile]
    Dragoon Fighter [Profile]
    Fruity [Profile]
    Han Solo [Profile]
    Isai [Profile]
    JaimeHR [Profile]
    Karajan [Profile]
    Killer [Profile]
    Kimimaru [Profile]
    KingFunk [Profile]
    Knitephox [Profile]
    Korobeniki [Profile]
    Koroshiyo
    LD [Profile]
    MATTS! [Profile]
    Metroid [Profile]
    mixa [Profile]
    Nintendude [Profile]
    Nova [Profile]
    Purtle [Profile]
    Sangoku/Squall [Profile]
    Sensei [Profile]
    SheerMadness [Profile]
    Star King [Profile]
    SuPeRbOoMfAn [Profile]
    SuperDoo [Profile]
    Swedish Smash [Profile]
    The Z [Profile]
    Twilight Sparkle [Profile]
    WOTG [Profile]

    Combo Creators (some also upload matches)
    B Link [Profile]
    Blaze [Profile]
    Emmi [Profile]
    Firo [Profile]
    Hikari [Profile]
    Mariguas [Profile]
    MrMarbles [Profile]
    Pete [Profile]
    Pooncahontas [Profile]
    RickySSB [Profile]
    Sempiternity [Profile]
    sextc iXi [Profile]
    Shade [Profile]
    Tambor [Profile]
    TANK [Profile]
    Timotheus [Profile]

    Peru
    Alancitu [Profile]
    GohanSmash
    Tacna
    Tacna Allstars
    TXWproduction

    Tournament Coverage
    Team Spooky
    8wayrun
    Clash Tournaments
    Bloodpeach Tournament Coverage [Profile]
    Chain Ace Tournament Coverage [Profile]

    Japanese Version
    Prince
    Red
    Red 2?
    Keshiki [Profile]
    Tatuman [Profile]
    yaneyane (Uploads lots of matches)
    gonbenokuni
    yodaredaradara
    hijiki
    Mixa's Japanese Matches Playlist

    Good threads for Japanese videos
    http://smashboards.com/threads/japanese-ssb64-video-thread.318630/
    http://smashboards.com/threads/japanese-tournament-matches-video-thread-info.339472/

    Streams
    Isai (Tuesday Nights) [Thread]
    ILOVESMASH
    Clubba [Thread]
    SuPeRbOoMfAn [Thread]
    SheerMadness
    Caneut [Thread]
    B Link
    Knitephox
    Stranded/Kero/Maliki [Thread]

    Tournament Streams
    Team Spooky
    8WayRun
    ClashTournaments
    FAQ
    Q: What is the best setting for range and deadzone?
    A: What ever feels best for you, 76-80% Range and 0-5% Deadzone is what boom recommends with the Nrage plugin.
    Also use this test to find out if your settings are off. You should be able to jump from corner to corner using one stick jump as Yoshi.

    Q: How do I record the game?
    A: I would suggest using separate video recording software, but you can use the built in record function by checking the "Record" checkbox before starting a game. It is found near the other buttons such as Start,LagStat, Leave, etc. It will save to a .krec file however.

    Q: Which adapter is the best?
    A: Many people suggest getting the raphnet adapter and it is debatably the best , the mayflash is cheaper and will work as well.

    Q: None of my games show up when I try to create a game or I can't join a game.
    A: Make sure you set your rom directory to where your roms are located and refreshed your rom list.

    Q: My controller feels stiff or doesn't work.
    A: Make sure you calibrated your controller in windows and unchecked raw data in your input plugin.

    Q: How do I escape DK infinite grab spam?
    A: Mash hard, alternate between all four directions and A B works best. Click here
    Also check out the technical data thread in the technical data section of this thread.

    Q: How do I do tilts when using a keyboard?
    A: You need to buffer your attacks. That is, you need to be already holding the direction of the tilt you want to do before you hit the A button.

    Q: How do I break out of Samus's up b?
    A: You have to DI down, if you don't get it right away DI up. Video Guide

    Q: How do I taunt cancel :coolmonke:
    A: Taunt before touching near the ledge. The "almost falling" animation will cancel the taunt animation. Letting the wind on dreamland push you towards the ledge works too.

    If you have a technical or frame data question view the technical data threads first.
    Still have a question? Ask here
     
    #1 M!nt, Mar 15, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
    Jaguar360, Zodiacx10, Oz and 10 others like this.
  2. asianaussie

    asianaussie
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Debater

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,343
    Location:
    Sayonara Memories

    im all for letting someone else take the index, mine is cluttered and sucky and i literally cannot edit it (sangoku is doing it all for me)

    you have to keep the dirk king thing in the title though
     
    SmashModGod likes this.
  3. KuroganeHammer

    KuroganeHammer
    Expand Collapse
    It's ya boy.

    • Premium
    • Brawl Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    15,754
    Location:
    Australia
    NNID:
    Aerodrome

    @asianaussie you can edit posts by turning off rich text editor

    The forum can't handle massive posts because lolxenforo
     
  4. asianaussie

    asianaussie
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Debater

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,343
    Location:
    Sayonara Memories

    oh ok

    maybe ill fix mine later but im ok with mint taking over too
     
    M!nt likes this.
  5. KnitePhox

    KnitePhox
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,838
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    good ****, i say this needs a bit of polish, but not much at all

    my video is old and too long, there exists pj64killerop.exe now, as well as other notes and things to cover


    +1
     
    M!nt likes this.
  6. mixa

    mixa
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,005
    Location:
    Isle of ゆぅ
  7. KnitePhox

    KnitePhox
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,838
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    who's account is that...???
     
    The Star King likes this.
  8. M!nt

    M!nt
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    I'm fine either way as long as we don't have an index that's entirely in one spoiler box :eek:
     
    #8 M!nt, Mar 15, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
    KnitePhox likes this.
  9. Cobrevolution

    Cobrevolution
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,178
    Location:
    nj
    KuroganeHammer likes this.
  10. mixa

    mixa
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,005
    Location:
    Isle of ゆぅ
    mien
     
  11. Sangoku

    Sangoku
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    3,931
    Location:
    Geneva, Switzerland

    *Le mien or was it a typo'ed mine?

    Good stuff M!nt I will maybe make a longer post with things to add if I come up with some, but for now my advice is the same as what I told aa: I suggest you remove all spoiler tags because I think they only give you a fake feeling of order and more importantly, they remove a ctrl+f possibility.

    Do we all agree to change the stickies then?

    By the way aa, I already told you how to edit long posts lol.
     
    #11 Sangoku, Mar 16, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
    M!nt likes this.
  12. mixa

    mixa
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,005
    Location:
    Isle of ゆぅ
    M!nt, you could add this to the jp videos section, and maybe Karajan's playlists too, although that's unlisted so I wouldn't know.

    It was intentionally ambiguous, so I did think mien without the article could be correct.
     
    #12 mixa, Mar 16, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
    M!nt likes this.
  13. KnitePhox

    KnitePhox
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,838
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    i vote eject aa from the venu--yes lets change the sticky
     
  14. Sedda

    Sedda
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,391
    Location:
    Luigi sucks
    This new one is good if it's kept short an simple. Don't worry about making sure EVERY detail is on here.

    Reading through the index the first time I was here was overwhelming, so short and simple plz
     
    M!nt likes this.
  15. asianaussie

    asianaussie
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Debater

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,343
    Location:
    Sayonara Memories

    sangoku if you told me i wasnt listening lol

    and why does anyone else's opinion matter, i already said it's fine to let mint have the sticky
     
  16. Sangoku

    Sangoku
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    3,931
    Location:
    Geneva, Switzerland

    Because the index isn't stickied for you, but for everyone lol. If everyone except from you thought yours was better I wouldn't change.
     
  17. M!nt

    M!nt
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    I only found 2 of his playlists part 2 and part 4, maybe he or you could post the other 2 parts? c:

    That would be nice of you. It looks pretty ugly without the spoilers, I think I organized it into a small amount of spoilers that whatever you are looking for at most you would have to open 2 spoilers, but i'll remove them and see what you guys think. EDIT-Actually it looks horrible without the spoilers and I think it's easier to find stuff even without ctrl-f, I think super long blocks of text look unappealing to someone that just wanders in here, and that's actually who this thread is for.
     
    #17 M!nt, Mar 16, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
  18. asianaussie

    asianaussie
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Debater

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,343
    Location:
    Sayonara Memories

    there's been enough thinly veiled disapproval thrown around (that i mostly agree with) that i feel you didn't really need more input, aside from the thread owner's
     
  19. krazyzyko

    krazyzyko
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,077
    Location:
    El Carajo, Puerto Rico
    If there's a matchup chart, could you please link it?
     
  20. Sangoku

    Sangoku
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    3,931
    Location:
    Geneva, Switzerland

    Just wanted to be sure as I don't want to hurt anyone's feeling.

    M!nt: alright I agree that 2 level of spoilers shouldn't be too impractical (although I already see 3 lol). The attack name table is a great idea. So my suggestions now (maybe you already thought of them):
    -Adding s2j's advanced tech guide. A little bit outdated, but it still explains pretty well most AT's.
    -Online: adding a glossary with terms such as p2p, delay, ping, lag, ds/desynch, etc. It might sound intuitive, but I remember I had no idea what a ping was when I started playing online.
    -Adding the current competitive recommended ruleset.
    -Maybe a tier list/matchup chart, but this is arguable.

    That's all I can think of for now.

    mixa the uair on keyboard video on your playlist is wrong. Pressing a then up the next frame yields to a nair. It has to be a simultaneous press.
     
  21. M!nt

    M!nt
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    Are they the same even though hyrule has been banned? The matchup chart is from like 2009 :( I guess I'll post them anyway
    The only one that has 3 levels of spoilers is Controls and that shouldn't really be something you need finding unless you're looking for the Contols which you can find under just one spoiler :) Most of everything is just under 1 spoiler.

    I'll add the rest of that stuff thanks!
     
    #21 M!nt, Mar 16, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
  22. mixa

    mixa
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,005
    Location:
    Isle of ゆぅ
    I had forgotten about the details of the video, my bad. I now recall having discussed that with the creator at the time.
     
    #22 mixa, Mar 16, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
  23. SuPeRbOoM

    SuPeRbOoM
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,509
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta
    "Q: What is the best settings for range and deadzone?
    A: What ever feels best for you, ~70% Range and ~5% Deadzone is what most people recommend."

    Should be around 76-80/0-5 for emulator, and it's also important to note that this is under nrage controller plugin.
    Although the ultimate test for your joystick should be this video: http://www.livestream.com/isaissb/v...17b2&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb
    You should be comparing the difficulty of your stick jumps between console and emulator and adjusting your range as much as you can to console.
     
    M!nt likes this.
  24. Sangoku

    Sangoku
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    3,931
    Location:
    Geneva, Switzerland

    Oh yeah I thought about that then forgot to mention it. 80% makes more sense as it is what gives you the max possible range in a direction.
     
  25. Herbert Von Karajan

    Herbert Von Karajan
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,299
    Location:
    Banned from 64
  26. KingDozie

    KingDozie
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    456
    What charc should i play if im using a keyboard.
     
  27. M!nt

    M!nt
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    You should wait until someone like Star King who uses a keyboard to answer, but I don't think you should pick a character solely because of what kind of controller you are using. Just play what ever character you feel is easiest or fun to use. A lot of keyboard players have really good kirbys though so there's that.
     
    #27 M!nt, Mar 22, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
    The Star King likes this.
  28. mixa

    mixa
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,005
    Location:
    Isle of ゆぅ
    Whatever, just make sure your input config does not hinder any movement option or techniques. Granted, if you're learning the game - as opposed to coming from console - you won't know what those techniques are early on. One example is jumping out of shield and its variations: up-B and u-smash out of shield.

    I'm not as inclined to practice with DK because 7/9 of the fun is plat drop uairs, and it's hard to do that on keyboard.
     
    #28 mixa, Mar 22, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
  29. asianaussie

    asianaussie
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Debater

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    9,343
    Location:
    Sayonara Memories

    falcon is fairly easy on keyboard because auto-stick jumps, also forces you to learn platdrop u-airs at some point

    link, ness and to a lesser extent kirby will really help you learn how to buffer unconsciously
     
  30. mixa

    mixa
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,005
    Location:
    Isle of ゆぅ
    Keyboard DI - frozen hitlag tests (Madao's table)

    Contrary to popular belief, if you're on keyboard and, for instance, hold down and mash left / right, you won't get more inputs than what is actually being pressed.
    When a human does that sequence, there'll be frames inbetween left and right. Basically what is happening is:

    frame 1: ↓←
    frame 2: ↓
    frame 3: ↓→
    frame 4: ↓

    From that people assume you get 4 inputs, but you won't get the pure down input inbetween the mashing, you'll only get diagonal down left (←↓) and diagonal down right (↓→).
    2 key presses = 2 inputs registered. This isn't news, by the way.
    This is true for all combinations contained in holding one of the keys (↑,↓,→,←) and mashing one or two other adjacent ones -- which is what the basic quarter-circle DI motion is.

    However, it's possible to get that buffered input to register. It's probably not the same in every keyboard, but in mine, if I wanted to DI away (let's say away is right), I can:
    Hold ↑ and →, and mash ↓.

    frame 1: ↑→↓ = registers diagonal down
    frame 2: ↑→ = registers diagonal up
    frame 3: ↑→↓ = registers diagonal down
    frame 4: ↑→ = registers diagonal up

    Now with 2 key presses I get 4 inputs registered. i.e. letting go of the key is now a valid input.
    This also works if you exchange → for ←, but it doesn't work if you wish to DI vertically.

    haxxxxx
     
    M!nt and Madao like this.
  31. Shears

    Shears
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,146
    Location:
    disproving indeterminism
    #31 Shears, Mar 26, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  32. Sangoku

    Sangoku
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    3,931
    Location:
    Geneva, Switzerland

    mixa: yeah that's why I have proposed this "hold down and alternate between right and left" method. Precisely because it gives you the two inputs needed for a perfect slide DI.

    Also I don't think there was any popular belief, because I've been alone saying this lol. I don't think anyone adopted this technique (I think SK said the fact it's impractical makes up for the optimal press).
     
  33. mixa

    mixa
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,005
    Location:
    Isle of ゆぅ
    It's a popular belief because I remember anti-KB people saying that as an argument for how broken kb is. At the time I even replied saying I thought it probably wasn't the case.

    I've been using that technique for a while now, and I don't find it impractical at all (holding down or up and mashing left + right). But whether you should use that or simply mash up, it's dependent on how fast you can press up vs how fast you can press left/right, since the vertical distance you get from pressing down is the same as down+side.
     
  34. The Star King

    The Star King
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2007
    Messages:
    9,681
    The second method doesn't even work for me. When I try that I actually get no DI at all. Zero.

    The first one works for me but gets me slightly less or about the same DI compared to just mashing... in normal speed. In 1/4 speed it actually gives me way more lol. I'm guessing because at 15 frames per second in 1/4, it's pretty easy to mash faster than the 7.5 inputs a second you need for frame perfect single direction mashing, so the alternating method's advantage of being to get a direction every frame overpowers pure mashing method's advantage being easier to mash a single direction.

    But it being better in 1/4 is irrelevent. In actual 100% speed gameplay, just mashing seems better to me.
     
    #34 The Star King, Mar 27, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  35. mixa

    mixa
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,005
    Location:
    Isle of ゆぅ
    Differences in Japanese Version


    I wanted to discuss this, which is without a doubt the most significant difference between the American and Japanese version of the game, aside from Ness being really good if you know how to use him, as opposed to just good.

    The first one is a no-brainer: characters simply move less with each DI input. Anyone can see that.
    How much less, or how much smaller/wider is the DI window is, however, unknown because I can't work the Madao Magic in the J version.

    Now for the second one, I've always had a problem with that one, so I'll try to shed some light into it. By the way, I was reminded of it while hearing today's commentary for the NJ tournament, which concluded that that makes comboing easier in the J version.

    Attack stun. What is it meant by it?
    Not too long ago I made this breakdown of a move connecting. Here's what's happening in that video:

    [collapse= -- Phases of a move --][​IMG][/collapse]
    If the previous link for the video is broken, try this one.

    Some variable must be smaller in the Japanese version.

    • It's not Hitlag, since both players share the same hitlag (except for projectiles), thus it can give no advantage.
    • It's not Ending lag, because when making Frame Display for the U version, I was comparing it to the J one, and it was exactly the same for almost all moves. I didn't check every single one, but just about any move I pick, all the information pertaining to this discussion (starting and ending lag, hitbox frames, total frames) is the same.
    • Shield stun is interesting, since the Ending lag is the same in both versions but the shield stun in the Japanese is higher. How significant is that advantage? Other than "As Fox you can probably maybe jab on shield more, but it's still not Han Solo safe", I don't really know.
    But shield stun is kind of another thing. All we have left is Hitstun, and I don't how to compare this one.

    I guess the original poster for these regional differences, Isai, just has a sensibility that enables him to notice this by simply playing... ? Back then there probably wasn't a website with data about the J version, let alone the U one.

    So which is it, what is the conclusion of this long bs post? I don't know.

    “It's Japanese mystery.”
     
    #35 mixa, Apr 7, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
    InvictusX53, tehz, KoRoBeNiKi and 3 others like this.
  36. Madao

    Madao
    Expand Collapse
    Moderator

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    Lol mixa's post inspired me to work that magic and debug the J version. Thank goodness changing 1 offset in cheat engine converted most of the important variables to their J version addresses. First of all, the DI speed is 1.5 instead of 2.1. It seems weird that that J version loads a constant (1.5), while the US version loads a value from a memory address. Another thing I noticed is that the attacker and defender have the same hitlag in J version. J version has 1 less frame of hitlag than US version.

    Also, your breakdown video link doesn't work.
     
    #36 Madao, Apr 7, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
  37. mixa

    mixa
    Expand Collapse
    Banned (6 Points)

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,005
    Location:
    Isle of ゆぅ
    Cool! So DI on the U version is 40% stronger, and there is always an additional frame in the DI window. Good stuff.

    Fixed the link.


    Samus up-B (possibly all drills) has 5 hitlag frames each time it hits. On J, it has 4 hitlag frames. So the U version allows for a stronger DI and more time to apply it.

    This also means that for the Japanese the game runs faster in a way, because for instance Fox can hit up to 7 times with his drill, this means saving 7 frames whenever a drill connects. Kirby hits 10 times with his dair, saving 10 frames, etc.

    Accounting for all the drills that exist in the game (all moves, actually) and that connect in a match, and ultimately in all games, I can't believe how we're still playing the U version in tournaments. We'd have more time for friendlies if we played with faster drills. Just sayin'
     
    #37 mixa, Apr 7, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
    InvictusX53 and M!nt like this.
  38. Cobrevolution

    Cobrevolution
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,178
    Location:
    nj
    make j version the tournament standard please
     
    KnitePhox likes this.
  39. The Star King

    The Star King
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2007
    Messages:
    9,681
    something something Samus main
     
  40. KoRoBeNiKi

    KoRoBeNiKi
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2007
    Messages:
    5,922
    Location:
    Northern NJ, 15 minutes from the GW or Manhattan
    Well falcon is more fun also in the J version
     

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)

We know you don't like ads
Why not buy Premium?