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Smash 64 Index (READ HERE FIRST)

M!nt

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
2,087
Oh I didn't even know there was something called Mupen64++Beta lol. Yeah I'll link it in here if knitephox has the link.
I dont get it, my older and slower comupter runs 64 well but my newer computer can't run it well. It has that random delay do you guys have a tips to increase its performance?
This could be many things. Are both computers wired? Also you should look your computer up and find the right drivers for your computer. Also like Madao said try different input and graphics plugins.
 
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KingDozie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
456
Since Mupen64++Beta is more stable than Mupen64k, @ KnitePhox KnitePhox should post his link to Mupen64++Beta so that @ M!nt M!nt can replace the mupen link.

Random delay? What are you talking about. Also what emulator and what plugins are you using? I have a hunch what the problem might be, but I'll wait for you to provide more information first.[Its inc
Since Mupen64++Beta is more stable than Mupen64k, @ KnitePhox KnitePhox should post his link to Mupen64++Beta so that @ M!nt M!nt can replace the mupen link.

Random delay? What are you talking about. Also what emulator and what plugins are you using? I have a hunch what the problem might be, but I'll wait for you to provide more information first.
Its inconsistent thats the problem it dosnt work in full speed all the time. Im using project64kev and the only change plugin i use is Jabo_Direct3D6.dll video plugin because jabo direct 8 has a even worse lag for me.
Ok my post just mess up lol

its inconsistent thats the problem it dosnt work in full speed all the time. Im using project64kev and the only change plugin i use is Jabo_Direct3D6.dll video plugin because jabo direct 8 has a even worse lag for me.
 
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Madao

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Ok my post just mess up lol

its inconsistent thats the problem it dosnt work in full speed all the time. Im using project64kev and the only change plugin i use is Jabo_Direct3D6.dll video plugin because jabo direct 8 has a even worse lag for me.
Ok. First of all, Jabo_Direct3D6 is a poor plugin to use. Later on, I'll pm you an experimental plugin that's faster and better.

Now what I want you to do is tell me your cpu specs. Then also tell me your results after clicking on options and enabling "Show CPU usage %" .

What audio plugin are you using btw?

I will give more advice after you provide me with a detailed response.
 
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KingDozie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
456
Can you give me the link to a better video plugin? Im using Azimer's Audio v0.30 (Old Driver) for audio. The cpu status on gameplay is r4300i:27.0 dlist:56-68% its random alist:7-15% its random idle:0.0% fps:43-52
 

Madao

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870
Wow those stats look pretty bad. Either your computer has low specs, is overheating, or some other program is causing interference.

For audio plugin, I recommend http://www.apollo64.com/Azimer HLE Audio v0.60 WIP 2.zip . After choosing that audio plugin, I suggest you configure RSP, and check the box that says "Send Audio Lists to Audio Plugin" .

I messed up the video plugin, so I have to fix up a few things before I send it to you. In the meantime, why don't you tell me what counter factor you are on, and other settings. Just load ssb, then go to options, settings, then rom options. Tell me what they all say.
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
Wait so we've officialy decided to switch to mupen?

First we need someone to make a perfectly set up version, with all the correct plugins by default and stuff. Then we could add it to the index.
 

Madao

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Can you give me the link to a better video plugin? Im using Azimer's Audio v0.30 (Old Driver) for audio. The cpu status on gameplay is r4300i:27.0 dlist:56-68% its random alist:7-15% its random idle:0.0% fps:43-52
Well, you can disregard that audio plugin link. I went ahead and packed everything important into a zip. The video plugin for speed is 1964 Video. The other 2 have better graphics for Super Smash Bros, but significantly slower (especially Glide64 Final). There's no best plugin, so if you play other n64 games on emulator, be sure to figure out the best plugin combination for each game. I love how I can load texture packs with 1964 Video and Glide64 Final. HD Smash Bros is nice :)

Wait so we've officialy decided to switch to mupen?

First we need someone to make a perfectly set up version, with all the correct plugins by default and stuff. Then we could add it to the index.
I spent a while organizing stuff ;/ . I also had to figure out why this bootleg plugin crashed the emulator when exiting. I had to copy the plugin, so there's a duplicate plugin. Don't delete it. https://www.dropbox.com/s/14lkxwmaq49jvi8/Mupen64++Beta.zip

Hopefully my good setup will encourage people to switch to Mupen :) . If anyone has problems, let me know.
 
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Madao

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My bad lol. I left cpu core on pure interpreter which is the slowest. Go to options, settings, general, and select Dynamic Recompiler, if you downloaded my zip already. I reuploaded the package to fix this.

I look forward to seeing people's feedback!
 

KingDozie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
456
Wait are we switching to mupen. Also were is the link you package, do you mean the mupen dropbox link?
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
Hmm I don't like it.

1) It crashes and restarts every time I open it (not ingame, but when I go to settings, open ROM, etc).

2) Jabo's input plugin is a pain in the ass to configure (because this noob displays error message when a key is already used, instead of mapping two to one and let you change the other one later) and won't let me pivot right on keyboard for some reason (shoutout to battlecow). This doesn't happen in PJ64. NRage input plugin (which is the one I use in PJ) doesn't work correctly. There is some weird feeling with the joystick inputs (still on keyboard), like they need a few frames to get fully registered. As if a kinda slow joystick push was simulated through keyboard press.

3) There's no hotkey (or maybe I just didn't find it) to remove the FPS limit to optimize offline play (I usually fast forward the game's intro and the match start intro).

4) The U shape (instead of squared) black border is annoying. Okay I'm kidding, this isn't a real argument.
 

Madao

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Messages
870
Hmm I don't like it.

1) It crashes and restarts every time I open it (not ingame, but when I go to settings, open ROM, etc).

2) Jabo's input plugin is a pain in the *** to configure (because this noob displays error message when a key is already used, instead of mapping two to one and let you change the other one later) and won't let me pivot right on keyboard for some reason (shoutout to battlecow). This doesn't happen in PJ64. NRage input plugin (which is the one I use in PJ) doesn't work correctly. There is some weird feeling with the joystick inputs (still on keyboard), like they need a few frames to get fully registered. As if a kinda slow joystick push was simulated through keyboard press.

3) There's no hotkey (or maybe I just didn't find it) to remove the FPS limit to optimize offline play (I usually fast forward the game's intro and the match start intro).
Unfortunately, I can't help with problem # 3. With the current state of n64 emulation, you pretty much have to use multiple n64 emulators ;/ . I'd never use pj64k or this Mupen++Beta for offline play.

I wish I knew the reason for the crashing. I'll try testing it on other computers, but on my computer it doesn't crash. What OS are you using?

Since you don't like the 2 input plugins I've included, let me know the one(s) you like and I'll add it in. That slow joystick push seems intentionally implemented in that plugin, which is why I prefer Jabo input. Maybe I should try the older Nrage versions? I only put the newest one I could find.

Mupen64++Beta is not the best, and I hate how it's closed source, but the fact that it desyncs less than pj64k makes it worth using for now anyway. The best potential is 1964 1.1 which is open source, but someone will have to modify the kaillera implementation. Right now you can only manually set the netplay frame delay in 1964. There are other small things that need to be done too. 1964 also has even less desync than Mupen, from my experience.

Wait are we switching to mupen. Also were is the link you package, do you mean the mupen dropbox link?
Idk if people will switch to mupen, but that is the hope right now. Yes the link I packaged was the dropboxlink. Even if you don't want to use that emulator, you can take the 1964 Video plugin from it and use it on other emulators. Don't even bother with the other video plugins since you even lag with Jabo 1.52.
 
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Sangoku

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Apr 25, 2010
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I don't see why pj64 is bad for offline play though.

I'm using windows 8.1.

I use NRage 1.61, but that's not the newest good version. Well maybe the slow joystick was intentional, but it totally ruins keyboard play in my opinion.

Anyway in the current state I'm still not convinced switching to mupen is a good idea. But I appreciate that you're trying to make a good build to change our mind.
 

Madao

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I don't see why pj64 is bad for offline play though.

I'm using windows 8.1.

I use NRage 1.61, but that's not the newest good version. Well maybe the slow joystick was intentional, but it totally ruins keyboard play in my opinion.

Anyway in the current state I'm still not convinced switching to mupen is a good idea. But I appreciate that you're trying to make a good build to change our mind.
The reason i don't like pj64k is simply because it is outdated and I don't even like the gui as much. I like PJ64 1.6 and 2.1 a lot better. In pj64 1.4 (which is what pj64k is based on), it's a hassle to set up game specific emulator settings. I actually don't even like PJ64 much anymore after realizing how awful the sound quality is. I like to use the best emulators and plugins possible, so I'd rather have a ton of emulators to suit different tasks.

OS might be the cause for the crashing. If so, then I guess I'll have to give up on Mupen, since compatibility is important. I've heard of people even having problems getting AQZ netplay plugin to work in Windows 8. That's why closed source applications suck ;/ .

Alright, what I will do is try out some older versions of NRage. I agree with you that it ruins keyboard play. I guess I'll also include jabo input 1.6.

I initially didn't want to put in too many plugins, but I guess I'll have to add more.
 
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Studstill

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2014
Messages
807
we shud prolly use a diff host? is it possible to host on smashboards? total of filesizes would be 50mb MAX, mods???
We`ll host anything you personally want@ Knitephox.SuperSmashBros64.com
Otherwise, we`ll host anything anyone wants, related to Smash Bros 64.
 

KingDozie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
456
I just updated my other drivers and the only one i cant update is the moble intel(R) 945 Express Chipset family. When i install it my screen goes black but still a little bit visible(cant really see anything), can any here help me with that problem?
 

Madao

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I use NRage 1.61, but that's not the newest good version. Well maybe the slow joystick was intentional, but it totally ruins keyboard play in my opinion.
Well I can confirm NRage 1.61 does not have that joystick delay.

I tried the NRage that came with PJ64KVE, linked in the OP and that version (1.83) also had the delay. So the problem was just the plugin. I'll add v1.6.1 to the plugin folder. Idk if I want to add Jabo input 1.6. I think it's kind of a waste to have too many plugins. So I want to have as few as possible in the package.

Does anyone know the difference between NRage v1.83 and v2.23? I'll reupload after I learn more about input plugins.

For the crashing, I'll just have to get others to test and see if I did something wrong, or if the emulator just doesn't work on certain computers.

I just updated my other drivers and the only one i cant update is the moble intel(R) 945 Express Chipset family. When i install it my screen goes black but still a little bit visible(cant really see anything), can any here help me with that problem?
Dunno. I kinda don't understand what you're saying though. Are you saying your computer is now messed up? If so, I recommend system restoring to a point before you updated that driver. I would just do an auto driver update from Intel's official website. I'd link you it if I remembered the url ;/ .
 
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Madao

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870
Sangoku, I think the problem was the default video plugin I provided. I added Nrage 1.61 and Jabo_DirectD3D8 1.6 to the package and reuploaded it. I would not recommend using Jabo_DirectD3D8 1.6, simply because the other 3 plugins are superior. But 1964 Video and that default plugin may have problems with certain computers, so that's when I'd use Jabo 1.6.

Great effort Madao. There needs to be a clear emulator package.
How can you say that without even trying it... Smh. This is package comes with the best set of plugins available.
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
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Apr 25, 2010
Messages
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Location
Geneva, Switzerland
Thanks, I'll try it again tomorrow.

Lol I think Studstill meant something like it's good that you're making effort into making the best package, because that's what we need.
 

Studstill

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2014
Messages
807
Honestly, I don`t know what to make of it. Kaillera/pj64 does strange things when I slect plugins. I think it`s a combination of having the settings in registry and whatever is happening with the renaming of plugins. Is there a list somewhere? Although apart from CPU speed, what are the differences in the plugins? Why is there not a clear set of the best or
AT LEAST
a clear set of the best, with options for lower end comps.
 

Madao

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Thanks, I'll try it again tomorrow.

Lol I think Studstill meant something like it's good that you're making effort into making the best package, because that's what we need.
Lol after reading his post again, I can see I missunderstood. He's done that kind of thing before though, which is why I initially got mad.
Honestly, I don`t know what to make of it. Kaillera/pj64 does strange things when I slect plugins. I think it`s a combination of having the settings in registry and whatever is happening with the renaming of plugins. Is there a list somewhere? Although apart from CPU speed, what are the differences in the plugins? Why is there not a clear set of the best or
AT LEAST
a clear set of the best, with options for lower end comps.
No there's no list. Although the plugins selected are in registry, I don't have windows 8 so I couldn't tell you where it is. PJ64k is ******** and forces you to use Jabo_Direct3D37. So you have to rename plugins in order to switch. Nobody knows the differences in plugins. Why? Because nobody cares. There was absolutely no reason to use Azimer's 0.30, yet it's still popular today. You even said yourself you don't really care ;/ .
 

Studstill

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2014
Messages
807
Yeah I don`t care at all about audio. That`s what thousands of hours will get you, lol, I mean, I could just hear it in my head if I want.
I care about having a constant framerate. Can you go into more detail on the renaming? It only applies to the video plugin, the other ones can be named anything?
Also, Kaillera seems to have it`s own plugin setups, irregardless of what is set in the emu. Basically the whole thing confuses the **** out of me (pretty sure I`m not the only one) and it`s frustrating. I guess I`m just really confused:
I understand there are operating system differences, but assuming everyone uses Windows, or if Mac/Linux can sim a Windows environment. The graphical plugin would naturally have a few choices dependent on comp speed, but in 2014 the majority of people should have adequate processors.
Guys, it`s obvious that a bunch of time, work, and effort has been put into all aspects of this by a lot of people. I`m just trying to get a clear handle on what has been fixed/is established, and what the remaining problems are and what is to blame.
 

Madao

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Yeah I don`t care at all about audio. That`s what thousands of hours will get you, lol, I mean, I could just hear it in my head if I want.
I care about having a constant framerate.
Well that's a contradiction, because audio plugin can effect framerate. Why NOT use a better audio plugin? Plus using HLE audio reduces CPU usage anyway, which means higher chance of keeping 60 fps.
Can you go into more detail on the renaming? It only applies to the video plugin, the other ones can be named anything?
It applies to audio as well. This only happens with that garbage pj64k emulator.
Also, Kaillera seems to have it`s own plugin setups, irregardless of what is set in the emu. Basically the whole thing confuses the **** out of me (pretty sure I`m not the only one) and it`s frustrating. I guess I`m just really confused:
There's nothing confusing about it. Idk what you're talking about. Plus it's not hard to do your own tests to figure stuff out.
The graphical plugin would naturally have a few choices dependent on comp speed, but in 2014 the majority of people should have adequate processors.
Not true. Even you had issues getting 60 fps. You realize n64 emulators are single core right? So cpu's hasn't really improved. A dual core 2.0 GHz will probably do worse than a 3.2 ghz single core, but that depends on what else you're running.
Guys, it`s obvious that a bunch of time, work, and effort has been put into all aspects of this by a lot of people. I`m just trying to get a clear handle on what has been fixed/is established, and what the remaining problems are and what is to blame.
The only problem are the end user's lack of knowledge/motivation and possibly their hardware. The software out is more than good enough. It's their own fault for sticking with inadequate software, and that goes for you too.
 

Madao

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Madao, have you tried out Mupen64plus? I think it's open source, and it's the only emulator that runs DK64 somewhat decently. That means something, no? XD

https://code.google.com/p/mupen64plus/
Ya I've tried it before. They've done some good work. It's a shame they seem to hate Windows OS. And they got rid of Zilmar's plugin spec, so you are stuck with a limited selection of plugins. Their plugins aren't too good either imo.

The best thing you could get out of it is backport the good changes back to Mupen64 0.5. Then someone could also implement kaillera, or just rely on AQZ.

I don't have enough knowledge to do serious emulator work, but it's actually something I'm learning.

It would be less work for me to just fix up 1964 1.1 though, if you just want a good kaillera emulator. The only problem with it atm is that it was intended to use that old version of kailera, so I or someone else would have to update the kaillera code a bit.

From my testing, 1964 had even less desync than Mupen64++Beta. I can see why no one uses 1964 for netplay though. The official version multiplies the network delay ;/ .
 

Saltsizzle

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
282
Location
Bloomington, IN
I feel like this thread title should have "playing online" in all caps to get rid of some of the unnecessary questions that always pop up to newcomers (similar to the last index thread). Also add a section about playing online with a mac since that seems to be a common question.

Just my $0.02
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
Agree for the mac part. However it doesn't matter what the title says, people are lazy and don't read the thread. In fact this thread is more for us so we can easily link stuff to them.
 

<Fruity>

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
Messages
165
Location
Barcelona
Also add a section about playing online with a mac since that seems to be a common question.
This would be helpful since I tried to set it up on my mac but it lagged too much; I might be doing something wrong.
 

Tom Bombadil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 12, 2012
Messages
305
Location
Oregon
yoooooooooo where'd u get that badass controller hud display
Same place I got it when I used it on my last video that I posted A MONTH AGO.

PM'd an Ocarina of Time speedrunner for it. He made it. He was happy to give me a download though. Let me know if you want in on that action

yooo where have you been
Lurking. Being isolated in Oregon.
 
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Sedda

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
2,393
Location
Luigi sucks
Same place I got it when I used it on my last video that I posted A MONTH AGO.

PM'd an Ocarina of Time speedrunner for it. He made it. He was happy to give me a download though. Let me know if you want in on that action


Lurking. Being isolated in Oregon.
Yo really nice tutorial bro. Keep that **** up
 
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