Smash 4 Speculation Chart [WE UPDATE NOW]

[Scoliosis Jones]

I still object to Bayonetta for the reasons I stated, but yous do whatcha wants.

Btw if we've been referring to my post earlier in some of these comments, I don't think Geno is likely in the slightest. I was just saying if we were going to treat that obscure appearance as substantial, that Geno should receive the same treatment. However, I suppose it's a bit different. Adding the fact that I was incorrect makes it a bad comparison, but my point still stands.

Professor Layton I can see. But it's circumstantial.

I still just can't agree on Bayonetta.

 

[AEMehr]

So then Snake, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Professor Layton, and Bayonetta sound like the appropriate chart.

Wait, does this mean we're all done with all the charts when AEM finishes 3rd party? That's friggin' awesome.

no because i still gotta do the big mundo chart thingy you wanted to see

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

no because i still gotta do the big mundo chart thingy you wanted to see

I would have figured that mundo-chart would come after the third-party guys but yes yes that is very good too.

So hype.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

One question though, is Wonder Red (and the rest of the Wonderful 101 cast) fully owned by Nintendo or is it like Pokemon and Kirby where the characters themselves are owned by the second parties?

 

[fogbadge]

One question though, is Wonder Red (and the rest of the Wonderful 101 cast) fully owned by Nintendo or is it like Pokemon and Kirby where the characters themselves are owned by the second parties?

they're shared i believe

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I would think it's 2nd-party, but some people here seem to think otherwise...?

That's the term I call it at least. 2nd-party. Nintendo IP for sure, but definitely shared. Game Freak and HAL and Brownie Brown and Camelot and whatnot.

 

[Deleted member]

Kirby's not 2nd Party.
Hal is a subsidiary of Nintendo.

Also, Pokémon isn't owned by Game Freak solely. Otherwise, it would be 3rd Party. Pokémon is a three-way ownership of Nintendo, Game Freak, and Creatures Inc. (which is another subsidiary of Nintendo, so really, Nintendo owns 2/3 of the rights).

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I just don't get why Nintendo games commonly reference Mario and Zelda, but not Pokemon. Minish Cap and Link's Awakening had a good amount of Mario references, and Zelda is seen here and there throughout some Mario games. Animal Crossing is full of Nintendo-owned items like Metroid and Pikmin, too, but nothing of the sorts from Kirby, Pokemon, or Fire Emblem. Kirby has plenty of Nintendo references in one point or another, yet it's never the other way around.

Like literally, outside of the Anti-Kirby in Link's Awakening, you never see "2nd-party" Kirby and Pokemon inside first-party material. Unless we count the Mii StreetPlaza, in which case Pokemon and Fire Emblem are still completely nowhere to be seen. I've never seen hair nor hide of Pikachu in a Nintendo game outside of Pokemon and Smash Bros...

It just seems like there's a large enough boundary to call them 2nd-party when they're not as closely intertwined as other 1st-party Nintendo games. Genuinely asking, what do you call that when a series is affiliated with Nintendo only, but isn't owned exclusively by Nintendo?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Genuinely asking, what do you call that when a series is affiliated with Nintendo only, but isn't owned exclusively by Nintendo?

A licencing landmine?

From what I can tell, the Nintendo series with other companies attached are Kirby, Pokemon, Donkey Kong Country (until Microsoft bought Rare and Nintendo got all the Donkey Kong rights back [which is also why it was Donkey Kong Jr that appeared in all those games, not DK himself]), Fire Emblem and Earthbound/Mother. Makes me wish Nintendo would make better use of the other series without licencing attached like Star Fox and F-Zero.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just don't get why Nintendo games commonly reference Mario and Zelda, but not Pokemon. Minish Cap and Link's Awakening had a good amount of Mario references, and Zelda is seen here and there throughout some Mario games. Animal Crossing is full of Nintendo-owned items like Metroid and Pikmin, too, but nothing of the sorts from Kirby, Pokemon, or Fire Emblem. Kirby has plenty of Nintendo references in one point or another, yet it's never the other way around.

Probably because they aren't owned by Nintendo EAD.

Unless we count the Mii StreetPlaza, in which case Pokemon and Fire Emblem are still completely nowhere to be seen. ?

It just seems like there's a large enough boundary to call them 2nd-party when they're not as closely intertwined as other 1st-party Nintendo games.

That doesn't change the fact that they are indeed first party titles.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Probably because they aren't owned by Nintendo EAD.

That doesn't change the fact that they are indeed first party titles.

Which is exactly what I mean by 1st-party: I refer to Nintendo EAD. Not exactly pin-point accuracy, but I think the 2nd-party nickname is appropriate enough.

And I forgot about the puzzles. I guess I was thinking more about the hats themselves you can earn, where there isn't a single Pokemon, EarthBound, or Fire Emblem reference. My point stands for other 1st-party (EAD) titles, though.

Another thing I noticed is that there's never a single WarioWare reference in other games. Again, 2nd-party, developed by a division of Intelligent Systems, despite supposedly taking place in the same universe as EAD's primary series of Mario. It's just a subtle thing that makes me think the nickname is completely warranted.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Another thing I noticed is that there's never a single WarioWare reference in other games. Again, 2nd-party, developed by a division of Intelligent Systems, despite supposedly taking place in the same universe as EAD's primary series of Mario. It's just a subtle thing that makes me think the nickname is completely warranted.

Is that why Brawl acts as if the Wario Land series never existed? They went to the trouble of getting Warioware and then it felt a waste not to go all out? Like a guest brought homemade coleslaw and you then feel obliged to serve it despite all the store bought stuff you got in your fridge?

 

[Deleted member]

WarioWare is a joint effort by Nintendo EAD and Intelligent Systems. It's 1st Party.
Especially with Intelligent Systems being, like Hal Labs, a subsidiary of Nintendo.

And there are WarioWare references in Rhythm Heaven (also by Nintendo EAD). As well as the Mario sports games/Karts/etc.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Can't think of many WarioWare references in Mario games, but one I do know of is that Wario's Bike is one the heavy-weight vehicles in Mario Kart Wii.

 

[Deleted member]

Can't think of many WarioWare references in Mario games, but one I do know of is that Wario's Bike is one the heavy-weight vehicles in Mario Kart Wii.

Mario Power Tennis features a Wario court with a 2D animatronic biker Wario.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Mario Power Tennis features a Wario court with a 2D animatronic biker Wario.

Seriously?

I don't remember that in Power Tennis.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Just looked it up, it's a giant picture of Wario in his biker outfit with moving arms. (best shown around 0:20 ) The bomb symbol used for the timer in WarioWare microgames is also visible on two parts of the court.

 

[AEMehr]

Update~

Our King has been confirmed.

 

[Deleted member]

Good. That just leaves the 3rd Party chart.
Sneaky clone dude
Speedy cartoon rodent
Assimilating robot boy
Gluttonous limbed mouth
Puzzling gentleman professor
Controversial stripper witch

 

[Cheezey Bites]

And a blue Slime in a pear tree

 

[AEMehr]

Good. That just leaves the 3rd Party chart.
Sneaky clone dude
Speedy cartoon rodent
Assimilating robot boy
Gluttonous limbed mouth
Puzzling gentleman professor
Controversial stripper witch

And a blue Slime in a pear tree

okey-dokey

 

[Kenrallminyah]

Can somebody reply to me and teach me how to put characters in my sig?

As well would love to see banjo kazooie hit this list. He is a very doable character from a creation standpoint and fits into the universe of characters already in. Even if his contract scenario is a maze or horror for his fans. Also dont think i saw wonder red, but I might have just missed him.

teach me how to sig its my first day here ( thanks for anyone who reads this and can help me

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Can somebody reply to me and teach me how to put characters in my sig?

As well would love to see banjo kazooie hit this list. He is a very doable character from a creation standpoint and fits into the universe of characters already in. Even if his contract scenario is a maze or horror for his fans. Also dont think i saw wonder red, but I might have just missed him.

teach me how to sig its my first day here ( thanks for anyone who reads this and can help me

Sorry budd, wrong thread to ask that. You could try here, I guess!

And Banjo is owned exclusively by Microsoft now and hasn't been on a Nintendo platform in literally over a decade. He's simply not happening, let alone over the other potential 3rd-parties.

 

[Kon]

I think the only true contenders for the 3rd party slots are Sonic, Snake, Mega Man and Pacman. Sonic and Mega Man already confirmed, we maybe get 1-2 more and as already said, I believe Pacman and Snake are the only ones we could still consider.

What do these 4 3rd party characters have in common? They have a long gaming history making them classics. Layton is a character who appears only on Nintendo systems, but I feel like he hasn't yet the status of a classic gaming character.

Pacman shouldn't be thrown away too early. He is classic while he may not reach as many people as Sonic, Mega Man or Snake. Another point against Pacman or any Namco representation could be that Sakurai may not want to give the impression Namco got a representation because the company helps developing SSB4. However, the choices don't have to be like very detailed argumentation on possible 3rd party contenders. We can only try to classify who seems likely and who seems less likely and based on that make a choice. After all, my opinion can be read at the beginning of my post.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Regardless of what we individually think, it's those four, Layton, Bayonetta, and Slime.

God forbid we actually move on from the third-party discussion.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Only thing I'd say is make the Slime one a general Square Enix slot. Other than that I think we're pretty much done. Now to sit and wait...

 

[Deleted member]

No "general" slots.

That's part of the reason why I didn't want Slime in the first place; too many arguments forming about other DQ characters as well as FF characters and (God forbid) Sora.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

1.) Ignore anything Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts because those are horrible people saying that.
2.) Realize that Slime is the most iconic Dragon Quest character.
3.) Add him to the chart.

Hey, that was easy.

 

[Deleted member]

And Ultra Slime

Y'know, to counter the "no limbs" argument.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Wait. Since it has been a whole week from the 12th day of Christmas, I made this.

If there were twelve 3rd party characters, they would most likely be...

An explosion happy alien...
A infinite notebook wielding brother...
A foul mouthed assassin...
A limbless Ray-person...
A raindrop shaped pile of goo...
A whip carrying vampire hunter...
A sleek 'curvy' witch...
An English polite professor...
A glutinous wannabe pie chart...
A sneaky clone spy...
A copying child android...
And a speedy anthro hedgehog all beating a fat plumber!

 

[Deleted member]

A rooster helmeted spawner.....?
You're not seriously saying Billy Hatcher has any sort of chance for Smash, are you?

EDIT: Wait, Maxwell.

Still. Maxwell has no chance whatsoever.
Nor does Rayman.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Looks like Ashley is in the game... as an assist trophy.

This half-confirms Wario, much in the same way that the Yoshi's Island stage half confirmed Yoshi in Brawl but I'm guessing we're gonna wait until we get Wario's artwork to do that.

 

[AEMehr]

Looks like Ashley is in the game... as an assist trophy.

This half-confirms Wario, much in the same way that the Yoshi's Island stage half confirmed Yoshi in Brawl but I'm guessing we're gonna wait until we get Wario's artwork to do that.

Yup!

Also, I'm going to update the Wario with chart with Ashley's AT confirmation once I finish the Third-Party chart.

 

[AEMehr]

Update!
WarioWare / Wario Land

Changes...
• Ashley has been confirmed to be an Assist Trophy, so she is now marked as such.

Third-Party Franchises

Changes...
• Final chart to be put in new chart style!
• Due to character vote: Big Boss and Lloyd Irving have been removed from the chart.
• Added in Bayonetta and Slime as they were in the generally agreed character pool.

And with that, the charts are officially completed and will only need to be updated with confirmations and deconfirmations! But I still plan on doing the giant roster image, so stay tuned for that as well.

 

[Deleted member]

Front post updated.

No longer in editing process. Now we wait for more confirmations/disconfirmations.

 

[FalKoopa]

No longer in editing process. Now we wait for more confirmations/disconfirmations.

Good. I hope we don't have to go through that exercise again until Smash 6.

 

[Deleted member]

By then, I probably won't be here.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Good. I hope we don't have to go through that exercise again until Smash 6.

Why, do you have a master plan for Smash 5?

 

[FalKoopa]

Why, do you have a master plan for Smash 5?

I said that to avoid someone coming in just to say that Smash Wii U and 3DS are Smash 4 and 5 respectively.

 

[AEMehr]

I had too much time to kill today...
Here ya go, @ God Robert's Cousin

Confirmed characters are at the top, in order of them being revealed. Following them are the alternate forms of playable characters (This will include alternate costumes such as Hii Fit Trainer, and Final Smash forms such as Giga Bowser and Wario-Man). Then after that are the characters we don't know about yet, they go in order by franchise just like the charts on the front page.

Following that we have the characters that have been deconfirmed in order of their deconfirmation (Red Toad is listed after the other Links because of how Peach's neutral special was used to represent Toad in the SM3DW Japanese Release pic, which absolutely solidified his deconfirmation). Then finally, we have confirmed assist trophies that were present on the list as well.

So this is the amount of characters we thought could playable be in the game, a whopping 196 characters! With our current score to have 21 of them confirmed, 5 of them considered deconfirmed by our standards, and 3 of them confirmed to be assist trophies (Yes I will be updating this as time goes on, much to my dismay).