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Smash 4 Speculation Chart [WE UPDATE NOW]

N3ON

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I apologize if this has been addressed somewhere before (I haven't kept up with the thread), but where's the Mii?

There is one thing I will say however. Zael, Aeron, and Wonderful 101 Guy (why we still have no name...?) are only temporary removals until their liscensing issues are dealt with and it is confirmed they are owned by Nintendo rather than their 3rd Party developers.
I can't speak for the W101, but going to the international sites for The Last Story and Pandora's Tower shows that the copyright is under both Nintendo/Mistwalker and Nintendo/Ganbarion, in the same way GS, Starfy, S&P, Custom Robo are Nintendo/Camelot, TOSE, Treasure, Noise, etc. I'm not quite sure what other kind of proof you're looking for. I suppose the Last Story site is a little more important, as it wasn't published by Nintendo in NA, but it still says (c) Nintendo/Mistwalker, Published by XSEED games, which it wouldn't if Nintendo didn't co-own part of the IP.
 

FlareHabanero

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Also before some idiot brings it up, Dragon King refers to the beta stage of Super Smash Bros. where it was called "Dragon King: The Fighting Game". It's simply up there if Sakurai wanted to create a original character that payed homage to the prototype phase.
 
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The Miis have been removed due to what I had seen in the Iwata Asks.

Sakurai said:
Of course, I think there was a possibility of taking Smash Bros. in a more casual-gaming direction. For example, we could make the art style simpler or make it possible to use Miis. However, with the various titles that the Wii was to offer, I felt that people were looking for something different. That’s the reason I decided in very early stages of development that the Wii pointer and motion movements would not be a primary feature of the game.
This is a pretty big hint that Miis are "too casual oriented" for Sakurai's tastes.
I'm well aware later in the Iwata Asks he mentions that Animal Crossing characters were not meant for fighting, but he states in a different source that he was considering a character that would fight using a bug net and bug spray. This makes it more of a backpeddling issue like with the Ridley issue of being both "pretty impossible" and being able to work if enough effort was given while being on the slow side.

And if the websites claim Nintendo as holder of the copyrights for Last Story and Pandora's Tower, then Zael and Aeron will be added back in the next change.

@Habanero: Bingo.
 

FlareHabanero

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Speaking of explanations, maybe including all of reasons for each character on the original post might be a good idea to clarify any possible questions.
 
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Alright, I need to address all of the changes I have made and why.

Additions/Replacements:
-As I mentioned earlier, I have added multiple outcomes for certain characters. I used Dixie Kong as the example, and by gum, I meant it for her. It also applied to Toon Zelda, who could either be alone, with "Toon Sheik", or with Tetra. Impa can either be alone, or the least likely and least favorable option, serving as Sheik's replacement. Chrom can be alone or represent the partner fighting by having Lucina or the Avatar as his partner.
-I have added Victini to the candidates for the 5th Generation, as it seems GameFreak is not yet finished putting Victini in the limelight (no pun intended in regards to Super Smash Bros. Fan).
-The main issue with Sylveon was that it was of improper build to work right. Then it was revealed that Sylveon uses its ribbons like Ivysaur uses its vines, contrary to my initial beleif. This makes Sylveon actually quite feasible as a 6th Generation candidate. Others still have yet to be revealed however, so more will be added for the 6th Gen if warranted upon their reveal.
-Anna is the most recurring character in Fire Emblem history, and is seen somewhat of a mascot within Japan. It would make sense that if Chrom was not the Newcomer, she would be.
-"Pikmin 3 Captain" became a placeholder until we know FOR SURE who the main captain of the game really is instead of assuming the blue kid is. This is in accordance of recent information given in regards to the game.
-"Dragon King", as Habanero mentioned, refers to the prototype of Smash Bros. before it became Smash Bros., Dragon King: The Fighting Game, or Kakuto-Geemu Ryuoh. There is a possibility that an original character based around the initial concept could be made as a surprise Newcomer.

Cuts:
-"Yarn Yoshi Sidekick" was removed because there is no mention of one existing at this point in time, only speculation. I will wait until one is revealed before I include it.
-Galacta Knight was removed because while he has some Japanese support, it is nothing compared to that of Waddle Dee's, who manages to have support outside of Japan as well.
-Rick Wheeler was removed not because he's an "anime character" or any of that horse****, but because after close analysis, there is absolutely NO mention of GP Legend or Climax within Brawl outside of the Chronicles (though Climax doesn't appear in non-Japan versions). There are no Stickers, and of the characters of the series that had Trophies, nothing mentions GP Legend or Climax, and treats GX as their lastest appearances in the series. This shows a total lack of acknowledgement of the alternate continuity, and it is rather unlikely this would change in the next Smash.
-Porky was removed because he only served as a token Mother character for being a major villain in both Ness' and Lucas' games. Outside of that, it is hardly likely Mother will get a new character, and Porky has a lot going against him anyways with how he is portrayed.
-As I mentioned, Zael, Aeron, and The Wonderful 101 Guy were removed temporarily until licensing issues were cleared and they were confirmed as Nintendo characters. Zael and Aeron were given some verification, so they will return when the next updates are made.
-Fossil Fighter was removed because he can be seen as unfeasible in comparison to the actual stars of the series, the Vivosaurs (kind of like the Pokemon). However, none of the iconic Vivosaurs are really feasible in design to suspect their appearance.
-Karate Joe was removed because he isn't exactly a major character to Rhythym Heaven, which doesn't really HAVE such a character. Also, the series debuted inbetween Pikmin and Brawl, and was not seen to have viable characters by Sakurai. This hasn't changed since.
-Miis were removed as Sakurai mentioned that they were, among motion control and simple art styles, too "casual" for inclusion.
-Sukapon was removed because Sakurai really did say that he was unlikely to appear in future Smash titles.
-Sheriff was removed because all he really has going for him is that he is Nintendo's first actual character. That isn't really enough, after some thinking.
-Luke fon Fabre had been removed because he pales in comparison to the original protagonist to the series and arguably the most well known and popular protagonist in general.
-Bayonetta, Simon Belmont, and Wreck-It Ralph were removed because the three don't really have enough to consider them as major contenders. Unlike Mega Man, who is one of the most requested characters in general, and Layton, who being in Smash was brought up to both Hino and Sakurai at the same time, leaving to wonder if they discussed the possibility in private.
 
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What? Muddy Mole should still be on the chart.

EDIT: Son of a *****....
Welp, those changes are going to have to come earlier than I thought....
 

FalKoopa

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@Golden

1. Why are the Chrom and the tactician as a duo character?

2. Lol, where did you get that picture of toon sheik?
 
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1. I'm afraid I do not understand what you are asking within context of grammar.

2. AEM found it on Deviantart. I was shocked to see such an official-looking piece of art.
 

FalKoopa

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My bad, I was typing in a hurry.

The question was:
Why are Chrom and the tactician being considered as a duo, like Zelda/Sheik?
 

AEMehr

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2. AEM found it on Deviantart. I was shocked to see such an official-looking piece of art.
Yeah he was, see:


Also FalKoopa
That's actually Robin. The main player character in Awakening. They're suppose to be a duo, sort of like Ice Climbers. It suppose to be inspired by the Partner system introduced in Awakening.
 

FlareHabanero

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Quick question regarding to WarioWare characters, but considering that the first WarioWare game was released in 2003, would that mean characters introduced in the WarioWare games would not be viable due to there being supposedly no viable fighters between the release of Pikmin and Brawl?
 

Swamp Sensei

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Quick question regarding to WarioWare characters, but considering that the first WarioWare game was released in 2003, would that mean characters introduced in the WarioWare games would not be viable due to there being supposedly no viable fighters between the release of Pikmin and Brawl?
The issue wasn't viable fighters or else we would not have gotten Ike, Lucas or Lucario.

It was viable series suited to the game and since Wario got in I assume its okay.
 

Diddy Kong

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Hmm, I felt Porky could easily stay on the list though. To me he seems as the most likely newcomer for the Mother series. Not that the series is likely to get a newcomer, but still..
 
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The question was:
Why are Chrom and the tactician being considered as a duo, like Zelda/Sheik?
Well, they are both important to the story. And while I realize that having Robin/Avatar/The Tactician alone may not be an optical route, having him/her as a tag-along for Chrom is reasonable. It's not exactly like the Ice Climbers, it's more or less Robin/Avatar/The Tactician/Cheesecake would follow Ike around and attack when certain attacks are used (usually right after Chrom attacks) to represent the partner fighting or whatever it is called.

Quick question regarding to WarioWare characters, but considering that the first WarioWare game was released in 2003, would that mean characters introduced in the WarioWare games would not be viable due to there being supposedly no viable fighters between the release of Pikmin and Brawl?
As Swampy mentioned, it was by series, and since Wario was the main character of the series, he may have just been thinking in terms of it being within the Wario series, which debuted in 1994. Then again, that's just speculation on my part.
Although, Starfy has no such excuse....

Quite the conundrum, really.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Probably a good idea to have other options for each characters inclusion, such as Chrom and the tactitian. Good additions and removals. The chart basically covers all bases...besides Adeleine:troll:
 
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Well except Muddy Mole, who I accidentally forgot....
*self-facepalm*
 

Opossum

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Poor Muddy. Now he's forgotten by the general public AND your chart.../cries.


Ah well, he'll be in the next revision! xD





...right?
 

N3ON

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why is there a chance diddy and dixie would be paired together?
Because that was Sakurai's plan for Brawl and he often likes revisiting ideas. I doubt this will be one of them though, however there is a small chance I suppose.
 

fogbadge

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Because that was Sakurai's plan for Brawl and he often likes revisiting ideas. I doubt this will be one of them though, however there is a small chance I suppose.
oh i see, certainly would have been interesting
 

Neanderthal

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You cannot make a case to remove a character, however.
Characters are meant to serve as if the other related characters in the chart do not get it over them, with the exception of the 3 cut Veterans. This means characters that are dependant on another character (such as Medusa being dependant on Palutena getting in) are excluded.
So.... why is Kazuya there?

The evil father of the main protagonist of Tekken (Jin) would never get into Brawl if Jin isn't in first.
Kazuya is entirely depenant on Jin but he gets in while Medusa does not...?

Medusa is probably in the top 20 most likely characters to get into SSB4. Yet she isn't included in your 74 character list while far shot one in a million chance third party characters in the same dependency situation as her ARE included....
Either you aren't very well versed in Tekken or your bias is showing.
 

Swamp Sensei

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So.... why is Kazuya there?

The evil father of the main protagonist of Tekken (Jin) would never get into Brawl if Jin isn't in first.
Kazuya is entirely depenant on Jin but he gets in while Medusa does not...?

Medusa is probably in the top 20 most likely characters to get into SSB4. Yet she isn't included in your 74 character list while far shot one in a million chance third party characters in the same dependency situation as her ARE included....
Either you aren't very well versed in Tekken or your bias is showing.
Kazuya was the main Tekken rep for SFXT.

Medusa is not likely at all. She just got Zant'd. :awesome: Palutena is the only likely KI rep.
 

N3ON

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I'd say Medusa is the second most likely KI character, only because she could be a semi-clone of Palutena, and no KI characters other than Palutena really have a chance. In any case, she's definitely not in the top 20 most likely, and her chance really only lies in becoming a semi-clone, so since she is dependent on another character on the chart getting in for her to actually get in, her exclusion, based on Golden's rules, is understandable.

Question for Golden though: If Palutena is confirmed, will Medusa then be added to the chart, or will she only be added if she herself is confirmed?
 

Shorts

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Don't forget that Medusa is actually just as/almost as important as Palutena to the franchise overall.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Don't forget that Medusa is actually just as/almost as important as Palutena to the franchise overall.
Were Medusa and Palutena in Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters?

Because if they both were then I would agree with you but if they're only in KI and KIU, I think Palutena is monumentally more important.
 

Shorts

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In KI isn't she the main villain? I'm really sure she is.

She's the Bowser, Palutena is the Peach, Pit is the Mario.

Same for the second game I believe.

Too bad she got the Zant treatment in KIU, but hey, she's still a badass *****.
 

N3ON

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Were Medusa and Palutena in Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters?

Because if they both were then I would agree with you but if they're only in KI and KIU, I think Palutena is monumentally more important.
Palutena was, Medusa wasn't.



Regardless, I'd say Medusa is still the third most important KI character.
 

Shorts

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Still, Pit > Palutena > Medusa IMO.

Personally I love Medusa. She's awesome :3 Snakes and such.
 

AEMehr

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Don't forget that Medusa is actually just as/almost as important as Palutena to the franchise overall.
Not really, I mean the franchise is named after Palutena in the Japanese version. (Which was stated previous times before)
In KI isn't she the main villain? I'm really sure she is.
Well only in the first one. She didn't appear in Of Myths and Monsters and was the False main villain of Uprising.
 

Shorts

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Not really, I mean the franchise is named after Palutena in the Japanese version. (Which was stated previous times before)

Well only in the first one. She didn't appear in Of Myths and Monsters and was the False main villain of Uprising.
While I did think she was the main villain in M&M, still, she beats out every other candidate regardless. (Besides Pit and Palutena)
 

Neanderthal

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I'd say Medusa is the second most likely KI character, only because she could be a semi-clone of Palutena, and no KI characters other than Palutena really have a chance. In any case, she's definitely not in the top 20 most likely, and her chance really only lies in becoming a semi-clone, so since she is dependent on another character on the chart getting in for her to actually get in, her exclusion, based on Golden's rules, is understandable.
My point was, the same applies to Kazuya.

I'd be interested to hear 20 characters you think are more likely though. I think it would be difficult.

Don't underestimate the sway of her being the villain in a Sakurai game has.
 

Swamp Sensei

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SFXT was never on a nintendo console and so is irrelevant.
...

Really?

Take a look at Snake. He uses machines that never appeared on Nintendo consoles (Cypher) and several trophies were included with information never included on a Nintendo console. (MGS3 trophies at that point in time).

Take a look at Sonic's trophies. They mention Sonic 06 directly. That never appeared on a Nintendo console.

Just because a game in the series didn't appear on a Nintendo console doesn't mean it is irrelevant.
 

Swamp Sensei

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My point was, the same applies to Kazuya.

I'd be interested to hear 20 characters you think are more likely though. I think it would be difficult.

Don't underestimate the sway of her being the villain in a Sakurai game has.
Pardon the double post but I have to reply to this...

Medusa was not the main villain in Kid Icarus Uprising. That was Hades.

As for the list.

1.Ridley
2.King K. Rool
3. Little Mac
4. Isaac
5.Megaman
6. Mewtwo
7. Roy
8.Palutena
9.Shulk
10. Takamaru
11. Bowser Jr.
12. Toad
13. Tingle
14. Waluigi
15.Paper Mario
16. Lloyd Irving
17. Pac-man
18. Saki
19. Ghirahim (pains me to say that)
20. Chrom

That was pretty easy.
 

Neanderthal

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...

Really?

Take a look at Snake. He uses machines that never appeared on Nintendo consoles (Cypher) and several trophies were included with information never included on a Nintendo console. (MGS3 trophies at that point in time).

Take a look at Sonic's trophies. They mention Sonic 06 directly. That never appeared on a Nintendo console.

Just because a game in the series didn't appear on a Nintendo console doesn't mean it is irrelevant.
Good point but we're getting sidetracked.

Point is that whatever way you look at it Kazuya's chances of being in the game is entirely dependant on Jin being in the game. At best he will be a Jin clone.

As such his inclusion breaks the chart rules.


Pardon the double post but I have to reply to this...

Medusa was not the main villain in Kid Icarus Uprising. That was Hades.

As for the list.

1.Ridley
2.King K. Rool
3. Little Mac
4. Isaac
5.Megaman
6. Mewtwo
7. Roy
8.Palutena
9.Shulk
10. Takamaru
11. Bowser Jr.
12. Toad
13. Tingle
14. Waluigi
15.Paper Mario
16. Lloyd Irving
17. Pac-man
18. Saki
19. Ghirahim (pains me to say that)
20. Chrom

That was pretty easy.
Really? Tingle?
Girahim?
Waluigi?
More likely than Sakurai's adopted franchise's main iconic villain?
 

N3ON

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My point was, the same applies to Kazuya.
Kazuya has been the main character of Tekken before, Namco has chosen him to be the main Tekken rep in other games, his inclusion isn't based off another Tekken character getting in first.

I'd be interested to hear 20 characters you think are more likely though. I think it would be difficult.
Off the top of my head (I didn't look at Swampy's list):

[collapse=More likely than Medusa]Toad
Bowser Jr.
Waluigi
Paper Mario
K. Rool
Dixie
Ridley
Krystal
Mewtwo
Zoroark
Goroh
Roy
Chrom
Palutena
Little Mac
Isaac
Shulk
Saki
Takamaru
Mega Man[/collapse]

Don't underestimate the sway of her being the villain in a Sakurai game has.
Let's see, first of all, villains don't get extra points for being villains, just like females don't get extra points for being females, and female villains don't get any extra points for being... female villains.

Secondly, the other Sakurai villain (Dedede) was cut twice, so he could include characters he didn't have an impact on so he wouldn't be thought of as biased. The Sakurai point doesn't work here.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Really? Tingle?
Girahim?
Waluigi?
More likely than Sakurai's adopted franchise's main iconic villain?
Yes. They all have their reasons but I see them as more likely. The main thing going against Medusa is that KI has NO demand for 3 characters.

And Medusa doesn't mean too much to Sakurai if she got scrapped for Hades.
 
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