Social Smash 4 Social Topic 2.0

[Autumn ♫]

I'm not trying to put anyone down, but realistically speaking, there is no "likely" scale for third parties, it's either do or don't.

So, Master Chief is as likely as Layton?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So, Master Chief is as likely as Layton?

He wouldn't been if the Halo DS game actually came out.

But it didn't.

 

[JamesDNaux]

So, Master Chief is as likely as Layton?

-3rd Parties are guests who are invited for their strong iconic status outside of Nintendo (i.e. in the broader gaming pop culture), with the caveat that the character has to have had games on a Nintendo system at some point (or at least, the most popular and iconic character from that genre).

But more of a double no for Master Chief, because M$ owns him, and I highly doubt they would share (being directly competition). He's as likely as Banjo though.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

But more of a double no for Master Chief, because M$ owns him, and I highly doubt they would share (being directly competition). He's as likely as Banjo though.

Banjo is more likely since it had a Nintendo appearance. Just saying.

There is an actual degree of likeliness among different Third Parties. It's not really black and white overall. Some are impossible(Master Chief, anyone originating in a Manga/Anime), some have a fair chance(pretty much anyone starring in a video game first and having a Nintendo appearance), and some are unlikely as hell(basically anyone who had a Nintendo appearance but didn't originate in a video game, but still fits the other criteria.)

So there's more to it than people think.

 

[Houndstooth]

But more of a double no for Master Chief, because M$ owns him, and I highly doubt they would share (being directly competition). He's as likely as Banjo though.

If he was Bungie's, then you never know. They are much more video game fans than anything else. It's hard not to like Bungie.

 

[Sehnsucht]

There is no "likely" for third parties, they either get in by heavy request (Sonic and Mega Man), or by direct request of the creator (Snake). Sakurai doesn't sit around looking at third party candidates, he only gets a whiff of them from polls. While Layton is a decently large series that are solely on Nintendo consoles, it's still a rather niche game with just a cult fanbase. Unless they all suddenly get really vocal and somehow coheres others into wanting him, he doesn't really have a chance.

I'm not trying to put anyone down, but realistically speaking, there is no "likely" scale for third parties, it's either do or don't.

That's a good way to put it.

If Layton lacks popular support, then only Level-5 directly brokering some arrangement with Sakurai would secure his playable inclusion (as was the case with Snake). Like all Third-Party characters, Layton is not essential, nor deserving, nor anything else -- because he, like all Third-Party Characters, are not Nintendo characters. If he gets in, it's because he was graciously invited after consideration by Sakurai, and nothing else.

So, Master Chief is as likely as Layton?

While you say this facetiously, it's worth commenting on nonetheless.

It's not really about whether Master Chief is more "likely" than Layton; it's about who Sakurai and Friends deign to include. The only real requirement is past or current presence on Nintendo consoles, which Master Chief evidently lacks. Layton may thus be more "likely" in that regard, but that shows zero indication as to the probability that Sakurai might pick him. And that cannot be possibly quantified, since you'd have to know how Sakurai thinks, which is impossibru.

Probability only applies to Nintendo characters, since the metric for their inclusion is based on variables that can be quantified -- whether a character is essential, popular, iconic, deserving, representative of certain aspects of Nintendo history or games, and so forth.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Banjo is more likely since it had a Nintendo appearance. Just saying.

There is an actual degree of likeliness among different Third Parties. It's not really black and white overall. Some are impossible(Master Chief, anyone originating in a Manga/Anime), some have a fair chance(pretty much anyone starring in a video game first and having a Nintendo appearance), and some are unlikely as hell(basically anyone who had a Nintendo appearance but didn't originate in a video game, but still fits the other criteria.)

So there's more to it than people think.

Except Banjo is owned by a direct competitor to Nintendo, even if he was on the N64 before, he has absolutely no chance now. Until M$ goes the way of Sega.

That's besides the point however, Sakurai isn't going to actively look for third party candidates, we only got Sonic and Mega Man because the fans made enough noise, every other choice isn't impossible, but they sure as hell won't happen unless they somehow get as noisy as the Sonic/Mega Man fans.

If he was Bungie's, then you never know. They are much more video game fans than anything else. It's hard not to like Bungie.

Master Cheif is owned by Bungie, and Bungie is owned by M$. Oh, and I don't like Bungie, but that's not important. Couldn't resist mate.

 

[Kamikazek]

@ Sehnsucht

I've watched a bit of a let's play of MGS1, the game doesn't look like it's aged all that well, and apparently The Twin Snakes is a shoddy port. I actually did play the first five minutes of MGS4, but I just couldn't get into it at all and never bothered to play the rest of it. I'm interested in the original MSX2 games, but Nintendo is being really ****ty with their virtual console, it's already on the Wii's, yet they still haven't bothered to bring any over to the Wii U, so there's nothing I can do there.

Even if I wanted to play MGS1, I'd have to go through the trouble of actually getting the game, and I just can't be bothered.

I have to say though, Ground Zeroes is absolutely fantastic and I can't wait for Phantom Pain.

Start with Snake Eater start with Snake Eater start with Snake Eater start with Snake Eater start with Snake Eater.

Master Cheif is owned by Bungie, and Bungie is owned by M$. Oh, and I don't like Bungie, but that's not important. Couldn't resist mate.

Actually Bungie is no longer owned by Microsoft. Microsoft took the rights to Halo when they split, though.

 

[mimgrim]

GWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I finally beat the Capra Demon in Dark Souls on my 18th, far less tries then I was expecting! HA! I am now currently in the Depths, not that far in (like I only just killed that dude that was carving meat). But I beat the cheap boss!

 

[Eight Melodies]

@ Sehnsucht

I've watched a bit of a let's play of MGS1, the game doesn't look like it's aged all that well, and apparently The Twin Snakes is a shoddy port. I actually did play the first five minutes of MGS4, but I just couldn't get into it at all and never bothered to play the rest of it. I'm interested in the original MSX2 games, but Nintendo is being really ****ty with their virtual console, it's already on the Wii's, yet they still haven't bothered to bring any over to the Wii U, so there's nothing I can do there.

Even if I wanted to play MGS1, I'd have to go through the trouble of actually getting the game, and I just can't be bothered.

I have to say though, Ground Zeroes is absolutely fantastic and I can't wait for Phantom Pain.

I still think MGS1 is the best Metal Gear since its story isn't needlessly complicated like the rest.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Start with Snake Eater start with Snake Eater start with Snake Eater start with Snake Eater start with Snake Eater.

What is this Easter Salad you speak of? Is this important to the mission?

Actually Bungie is no longer owned by Microsoft. Microsoft took the rights to Halo when they split, though.

Wait.

What.

How did that what now who? There's hope for Rare? I think I'm going to pass out now.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Start with Snake Eater start with Snake Eater start with Snake Eater start with Snake Eater start with Snake Eater.

Nah, start with Metal Gear, then Metal Gear 2, then Metal Gear Solid, then Metal Gear Solid 2, and so forth.

Essentially, watch walkthroughs/play the games in the order of the release dates rather than the series timeline.
That's how I did it when I started researching the Metal Gear series back in late 2012.

Same goes for the Kingdom Hearts series. Going in the order of release dates makes everything less confusing.

----

 

[Substitution]

So, what'd I miss?

 

[Eight Melodies]

Oh MGS3 is pretty awesome too.

 

[mimgrim]

So, what'd I miss?

I killed the Capra Demon!

Look a few posts above yours.

 

[Kamikazek]

Master Cheif is owned by Bungie, and Bungie is owned by M$. Oh, and I don't like Bungie, but that's not important. Couldn't resist mate.

Nah, start with Metal Gear, then Metal Gear 2, then Metal Gear Solid, then Metal Gear Solid 2, and so forth.
Essentially, watch walkthroughs/play the games in the order of the release dates rather than the series timeline.
That's how I did it when I started researching the Metal Gear series back in late 2012.

Same goes for the Kingdom Hearts series. Going in the order of release dates makes everything less confusing.

----

I recommend Snake Eater first because as a modern game it seems to be the most accessible(aside from Ground Zero and Rising). I've known several people who have started on Metal Gear games, immediately given up on them, then later played Snake Eater, loved it, and then gone and played through the whole series.
As far as not being confused, I think either going by release date or by chronological order works perfectly fine. You don't need to know anything about the series at all for Snake Eater or for the original Metal Gear, and after that it's basically the same order in terms of the main titles. Just, for the love of god, don't start with MGS 4.

 

[Substitution]

I killed the Capra Demon!

Look a few posts above yours.

Well, to be fair.
It's a bit difficult to miss the four or five pictures you used...

 

[mimgrim]

Well, to be fair.
It's a bit difficult to miss the four or five pictures you used...

I'm just too happy that I killed the *******.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Except Banjo is owned by a direct competitor to Nintendo, even if he was on the N64 before, he has absolutely no chance now. Until M$ goes the way of Sega.

Low chance you mean. He fits the criteria. If MS says no, fair enough. You don't know what they'll do. You're talking too much in assumptions and not in facts. We really don't know what could happen.

That's besides the point however, Sakurai isn't going to actively look for third party candidates, we only got Sonic and Mega Man because the fans made enough noise, every other choice isn't impossible, but they sure as hell won't happen unless they somehow get as noisy as the Sonic/Mega Man fans.

I don't see this as a fact, honestly. How do you know he isn't looking for any? He never said that. Maybe you think he's implying it, which is an understandable position to take, but this was never stated. He said MegaMan was a special addition; He never specified why he was added beyond that. Unless you can show me an interview where he said the fans got him in. I don't remember him specifying why he brought Sonic back for For, mind you. If you have the direct, I'll watch it again. I know that in the case of Brawl, it was pretty much fan demand. Sega did even say it'd be neat if Sakurai asked them again for Sonic, but at the time(of the video they made), they weren't asked. Of course, they could've been lying to protect the truth and avoid leaks, but eh.

Honestly, I don't really remember much information about how he picked the 3rd parties beyond "they were special" for SSB4 at best. Give some sources, please.

Master Chief is owned by Bungie, and Bungie is owned by M$. Oh, and I don't like Bungie, but that's not important. Couldn't resist mate.

The only real issue is Master Chief has not had a Nintendo appearance. It's that simple. Those are required no matter what.

 

[Kamikazek]

The only real issue is Master Chief has not had a Nintendo appearance. It's that simple. Those are required no matter what.

Shame that Halo DS game got canceled.

 

[mimgrim]

I don't see this as a fact, honestly. How do you know he isn't looking for any? He never said that. Maybe you think he's implying it, which is an understandable position to take, but this was never stated. He said MegaMan was a special addition; He never specified why he was added beyond that. Unless you can show me an interview where he said the fans got him in. I don't remember him specifying why he brought Sonic back for For, mind you. If you have the direct, I'll watch it again. I know that in the case of Brawl, it was pretty much fan demand. Sega did even say it'd be neat if Sakurai asked them again for Sonic, but at the time(of the video they made), they weren't asked. Of course, they could've been lying to protect the truth and avoid leaks, but eh.

Honestly, I don't really remember much information about how he picked the 3rd parties beyond "they were special" for SSB4 at best. Give some sources, please.

I dun remember much about Mega Man besides "special case".

He did however state Sonic was brought in because of popularity in a Nintendo Power interview. I posted the quote like a page or 2, maybe 3, back. :L

 

[Substitution]

I'm just too happy that I killed the *******.

I see that.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

@ Sehnsucht

I've watched a bit of a let's play of MGS1, the game doesn't look like it's aged all that well, and apparently The Twin Snakes is a shoddy port.

It's not really.

The main point of contention tends to be the cutscenes, which had their ridiculousness turned way past eleven (one of them has Snake hopping on missiles fired by a helicopter), which some feel undermines some of the games themes about war. In terms of gameplay, most people feel it's quite a good game(though some feel some of the new features make the game a bit too easy).

Also, I didn't find that MGS1 felt that 'aged' IMO. Though that might be because it was my first MG game(I didn't play it when it first came out FYI, I played it via the PSP's PS1 classics).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Shame that Halo DS game got canceled.

There was a GBA one apparently planned too. Huh. And indeed. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Master Chief in, but accuracy says that's the only reason he has zero chance to get in.

I dun remember much about Mega Man besides "special case".

He did however state Sonic was brought in because of popularity in a Nintendo Power interview. I posted the quote like a page or 2, maybe 3, back. :L

Ah, okay. Thanks. Doesn't apply to MegaMan, apparently. It could be a fair guess, seeing as how people were pissed off he wasn't in MvC3.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Just, for the love of god, don't start with MGS 4.

Well I started with four, I guess that was the problem... Though I did come back with Ground Zeroes, which was amazing. I certainly want to get the whole series eventually, I just don't have the time or means to do so. I'd rather hope to have an entire collection of games and consoles eventually.

Also:

There's hope for Rare?

How did Bungie manage to escape the iron grip of M$? I can only hope that Rare could get away, even at the loss of Killer Instinct.

Low chance you mean. He fits the criteria. If MS says no, fair enough. You don't know what they'll do. You're talking too much in assumptions and not in facts. We really don't know what could happen.

Please don't try to give me false hope for Banjo, you have no idea how much that's tearing my heart right now.

I don't see this as a fact, honestly. How do you know he isn't looking for any? He never said that. Maybe you think he's implying it, which is an understandable position to take, but this was never stated. He said MegaMan was a special addition; He never specified why he was added beyond that. Unless you can show me an interview where he said the fans got him in. I don't remember him specifying why he brought Sonic back for For, mind you. If you have the direct, I'll watch it again. I know that in the case of Brawl, it was pretty much fan demand. Sega did even say it'd be neat if Sakurai asked them again for Sonic, but at the time(of the video they made), they weren't asked. Of course, they could've been lying to protect the truth and avoid leaks, but eh.

Honestly, I don't really remember much information about how he picked the 3rd parties beyond "they were special" for SSB4 at best. Give some sources, please.


The only real issue is Master Chief has not had a Nintendo appearance. It's that simple. Those are required no matter what.

I'm not trying to state any of this as fact, but do you really think he's going to actively look for non-Nintendo characters to add to a Nintendo game? Why would he even look at those characters when he's already stated that they have to be a special case? Sounds like a massive waste of time. Also, Sega knew Sonic was going to be in, how would Sega not know that they made negotiations? Third parties have to be worked out ahead of time, Sakurai didn't have his team make Sonic and then ask if he could use him again. Sega and Kojima were/are under non disclosure agreements, they can't say anything about the game.

 

[mimgrim]

Man. I really miss Nintendo Power.

It was a great, and actually reliable in terms of ratings, magazine.

 

[Substitution]

There was a GBA one apparently planned too. Huh. And indeed. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Master Chief in, but accuracy says that's the only reason he has zero chance to get in.

Still...
Master Chief in Smash would be hysterical.

 

[mimgrim]

I'd rather see the Arbiter. Just saying. :L

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Please don't try to give me false hope for Banjo, you have no idea how much that's tearing my heart right now.

It's not false hope. Nobody knows his chances at all.

I'm not trying to state any of this as fact, but do you really think he's going to actively look for non-Nintendo characters to add to a Nintendo game? Why would he even look at those characters when he's already stated that they have to be a special case? Sounds like a massive waste of time. Also, Sega knew Sonic was going to be in, how would Sega not know that they made negotiations? Third parties have to be worked out ahead of time, Sakurai didn't have his team make Sonic and then ask if he could use him again. Sega and Kojima were/are under non disclosure agreements, they can't say anything about the game.

How do you know he isn't? And I get that for Sega and Kojima(that's only if Snake was in there and Kojima couldn't say he was in. Snake may not be back). The problem is, how do you know Sega made those negotiations until after they posted that earlier video about wanting Sakurai to ask them again? We don't know. Again, you're asserting way too much things as facts.

It's not a matter of a hope, it's a matter of facts; Fact is, we don't really know what he considers special. He could be looking at tons for all we know, only picking what he considers unique enough. We don't know jack about how he's trying to look for characters, not more than "should be unique, should be special" at best. That's pretty much how it is, currently.

Still...
Master Chief in Smash would be hysterical.

Or awesome. XD

 

[Substitution]

Or awesome. XD

Think of it.
If Miiverse sees it, they wouldn't know what to think!
It's like a war just waiting to happen.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Watch the third party character be Bayonetta... I'll be in front of my computer with a whole cup of fanboy tears for me to drink while reading internet forums of people reacting about how much they dislike the idea... it'll be R.O.B. all over again.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Think of it.
If Miiverse sees it, they wouldn't know what to think!
It's like a war just waiting to happen.

Too bad it's legitimately impossible. Since Master Chief has zero Nintendo appearances. Not that I considered him much likely, since his game is mainly a Microsoft thing. It's not like Banjo-Kazooie, who used to be a Nintendo thing.

 

[Substitution]

Too bad it's legitimately impossible. Since Master Chief has zero Nintendo appearances. Not that I considered him much likely, since his game is mainly a Microsoft thing. It's not like Banjo-Kazooie, who used to be a Nintendo thing.

Well, one can dream...

 

[JamesDNaux]

It's not false hope. Nobody knows his chances at all.

How do you know he isn't? And I get that for Sega and Kojima(that's only if Snake was in there and Kojima couldn't say he was in. Snake may not be back). The problem is, how do you know Sega made those negotiations until after they posted that earlier video about wanting Sakurai to ask them again? We don't know. Again, you're asserting way too much things as facts.

It's not a matter of a hope, it's a matter of facts; Fact is, we don't really know what he considers special. He could be looking at tons for all we know, only picking what he considers unique enough. We don't know jack about how he's trying to look for characters, not more than "should be unique, should be special" at best. That's pretty much how it is, currently.

In regards to how I "know" that Sega made those negotiations (again, I'm not trying to pass anything as fact, just speculation, unlike your insinuations), the roster for the game was decided a long time ago. Also, taking into account Sakurai's statement of no cuts being made so far a while back, it was already safe to assume Sonic and Snake to be back, because if he didn't cut them, he had to have already made the negotiations. As for third parties? Well then, I guess Rayman is confirmed because Ancel said he wanted him in, I guess Layton must be in because he's pretty close to Nintendo, Geno must be in because of his cult fanbase, let's just throw in everyone because why not? Sakurai must be searching for third party candidates right? This is Nintendo and Friends Smash Battle Brothers after all.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In regards to how I "know" that Sega made those negotiations (again, I'm not trying to pass anything as fact, just speculation, unlike your insinuations), the roster for the game was decided a long time ago. Also, taking into account Sakurai's statement of no cuts being made so far a while back, it was already safe to assume Sonic and Snake to be back, because if he didn't cut them, he had to have already made the negotiations. As for third parties? Well then, I guess Rayman is confirmed because Ancel said he wanted him in, I guess Layton must be in because he's pretty close to Nintendo, Geno must be in because of his cult fanbase, let's just throw in everyone because why not? Sakurai must be searching for third party candidates right? This is Nintendo and Friends Smash Battle Brothers after all.

It's not safe to assume Snake is back at all.

And yes, you're insinuating way too much. Sonic was added last minute to Brawl. Snake may not be planned or in the game at all and could be added last minute too.

Any third party, to be honest, is not "automatically back in" because he needs to re-negotiate again. Honestly, stop with the hyperbole and sarcasm too. It's not helping your point; We don't know very much about his plans and that's all there is to it.

And I still disagree Sakurai decided the final roster a "long time ago". It might've been just recently. You can only apply that for Brawl because he admitted that. We got no clue when he finished up the roster plans for SSB4 at all, and people need to stop thinking it's already set in stone. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

That said, I'm having a hard time typing since I need to have ice on my mouth due to all my teeth being pulled out, and it's very sore and swollen. So could you make your next reply with shorter stuff(and lack of any hyperbole/sarcasm, as they're easily ignoreable).

Well, one can dream...

Go back in time and make the earlier game happen, then the dream is worthwhile.

 

[Kamikazek]

How did Bungie manage to escape the iron grip of M$? I can only hope that Rare could get away, even at the loss of Killer Instinct.
Please don't try to give me false hope for Banjo, you have no idea how much that's tearing my heart right now.

Shrewed business decisions on Bungie's part basically. The deal is that Microsoft gets to keep the rights to Halo and Bungie has to assist them in making new Halo games (although they seemed to wiggle their way out of that agreement too, because they had little if any involvement in Halo 4), and meanwhile Bungie get's to be an independently owned company and own the rights to all their games that aren''t Halo and can make games for other platforms(their next game is coming out on PS3/PS4 for instance). Also, Microsoft also still owns a lot of shares in Bungie, but they aren't the major shareholder.
Basically it worked out because Microsoft only cared about Bungie because of Halo/really wanted full ownership of the franchise and Bungie didn't want to be stuck making Halo games forever/ apparently were none to fond of Microsoft. Rare could conceivably make a similar move but they don't have a massive bargaining chip like Halo at the moment. Maybe if they made some new Killer App or something like Killer Instinct explodes in popularity. But I wouldn't hold my breath for that. If any hope can be gleaned from this story for Rare it's that Microsoft is hilariously short sighted because they let the company that made their killer app go without even once letting them make a single game in another series so that they might, you know, have a second killer app. So they might just let go of Rare in some hilariously stupid business decision.

There was a GBA one apparently planned too. Huh. And indeed. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Master Chief in, but accuracy says that's the only reason he has zero chance to get in.

I like neither Master Chief nor his games but I think it'd be cool to see "Microsoft's Mascot" show up in Smash Bros. in the same way that people who don't give a damn about Sonic the Hedgehog still thought him being in Brawl was the coolest thing ever. Except this time it'd be a contemporary console competitor showing up in Smash. It would be a big moment in gaming.

 

[8-peacock-8]

It doesn't matter if Rare gets out of Micr$oft's grip or not. It's an empty shell.

 

[Houndstooth]

How did Bungie manage to escape the iron grip of M$? I can only hope that Rare could get away, even at the loss of Killer Instinct.

They are their own company, and the contract was for so many Halo games on the Xbox console. M$ owns the rights to Halo, but Bungie has made other games. Look up Destiny. It'll be a game changer this year, in my opinion.

 

[JamesDNaux]

That said, I'm having a hard time typing since I need to have ice on my mouth due to all my teeth being pulled out, and it's very sore and swollen. So could you make your next reply with shorter stuff(and lack of any hyperbole/sarcasm, as they're easily ignoreable).

My condolences. I apologize for the sarcasm, your insinuating of me trying to pass of things as fact was becoming bothersome.

I won't try to convince you of anything, I just know that I'm not going to pull the wool over my head and hope for any third parties.

It doesn't matter if Rare gets out of Micr$oft's grip or not. It's an empty shell.

Rare is a shell, but former employees are still around elsewhere, a few have said they even want to work on their old games again. Even so, just getting the IPs back to Nintendo would instantly be better, I'm sure they would actually do something with them. Unlike M$.

 

[Gunla]

The only IP that I'm appreciating under M$ is the one where they are smart to choose the best successor.
Killer Instinct.

Everything else I feel was a bad decision. Rare's just a shell now with old employees scattered.