• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Social Smash 4 Social Topic 2.0

Status
Not open for further replies.

Yomi's Biggest Fan

See You Next Year, Baby
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
26,203
Location
Chicago, Illinois
NNID
Takamaru64
3DS FC
1375-7346-9605
Switch FC
SW-8277-6509-2593
Actually, I've heard plenty of complaints about it. But not all of Nintendo's females are so stereotypically feminine (see: Samus), so Nintendo gets less flak about it.
Then explain SEGA with Sawnik, Jet Set Radio, and the rest of their IP's. (*cough* *cough* Amy *cough*) :troll:

Just kidding...

I've **** myself laughing and crying when seeing this. XD
 
Last edited:

FalKoopa

Rainbow Waifu
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
32,231
Location
India/भारत
3DS FC
1650-3685-3998
Switch FC
SW-5545-7990-4793
I personally find the idea of Sonic being added in Melee highly doubtful. For one, Sega was still in the console business at that time. I don't see why they would allow Sonic to appear on a rival platform.
 

Vintage Creep

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
4,673
Location
Silent Hill
NNID
VintageCreep
I personally find the idea of Sonic being added in Melee highly doubtful. For one, Sega was still in the console business at that time. I don't see why they would allow Sonic to appear on a rival platform.
Also Sonic isn't really the kind of character you can say "Oh we almost completed it but yeah, **** it we're putting him in next time.".
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,371
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
I really want Lucas to be in, I'm sorry, and a ton of people will disagree with me on this. Lucas deserves a spot more than Ness, sure Ness is more recognized by Western countries, but Lucas as a character is better. He's more relatable, and that makes his emotional bond with the player stronger. Also, he is more fun to play as in Brawl.
I agree with the fun part, but they both highly deserve a spot. Ness was first, so I think he should get first pick. I wouldn't ever remove either, but if one had to go, it wouldn't be the original 12 member.

And I dunno, the fact Ness is more recognizable among the entire world... never mind Earthbound is playable everywhere compared to Mother 3, which is not, wouldn't that make Ness a bit more relateable? Realistically speaking?

I personally find the idea of Sonic being added in Melee highly doubtful. For one, Sega was still in the console business at that time. I don't see why they would allow Sonic to appear on a rival platform.
Well, the official reason was still "not enough time" regardless. There's no way to tell if he had a fair chance if time wasn't an issue. The problem is, he had no Nintendo appearances before Melee, right? I think that's why Sakurai would've said no. Before somebody notes Roy, he's a Nintendo character, so just like Giga Bowser or other originals, they are exceptions in that case.
 
Last edited:

FlareHabanero

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
16,443
Location
New Jersey
I personally find the idea of Sonic being added in Melee highly doubtful. For one, Sega was still in the console business at that time. I don't see why they would allow Sonic to appear on a rival platform.
Well, actually, the SEGA reconstructing to a third party company happened during the first quarter of 2001 while games like Sonic Adventure 1: Battle and Sonic Advance were released sometime during the first financial year. So it would of been more viable then you think.
 

EmceeEspio

Not the Break Man
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
7,016
Location
The "Skilled" Halidom
NNID
captainlucario
Well, actually, the SEGA reconstructing to a third party company happened during the first quarter of 2001 while games like Sonic Adventure 1: Battle and Sonic Advance were released sometime during the first financial year. So it would of been more viable then you think.
Ditto.

Also, is it just my incredible bias as Espio being my favorite Sonic character, or would Team Chaotix be an AWESOME Assist Trophy?
 

JamesDNaux

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
7,760
Location
Studio Naux
NNID
JamesDNaux
Sonic was never planned for Melee, though he may have been asked for. If he were planned for Melee, then why on earth would Sakurai say "well, let's not add him to Brawl," then turn around at the end of development and decide to add him anyway, at the cost of a delay and the loss of characters? He got in on pure fan demand.

On the subject of impossible scenarios/characters, could you imagine if Sony and Nintendo actually managed to work together again? Imagine Sony DLC for SSB4, Jak, Ratchet, Sly, etc all fighting against Nintendo's characters, Sonic, Mega Man, and Snake. I would main Sir Dan all day long.

It would definitely open the door to more third parties as well, there's even the possible joint effort to get Crash and Spyro in on it. Of course, entirely impossible dreams, unless Sony somehow goes under on their game studio and ends up like Sega. I'm waiting for that to happen to M$ so we can get Banjo back anyway.
 

Jason the Yoshi

Watching Me, Wanting Me
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Messages
18,791
Location
Waiting for Jesus
Sonic was never planned for Melee, though he may have been asked for. If he were planned for Melee, then why on earth would Sakurai say "well, let's not add him to Brawl," then turn around at the end of development and decide to add him anyway, at the cost of a delay and the loss of characters? He got in on pure fan demand.
I don't mean to be rude or anything, but I'm kinda starting to think you're biased because you're a hardcore Snake supporter.

For one thing, as I've said about an hour ago, Yuji Naka said himself in that interview that Sonic was planned for Melee, but was excluded due to time constraints just like Snake.

To answer your question, the only thing that made Sonic making it to Brawl take so long was that when Sakurai returned to SEGA about Sonic, Naka had been replaced. Fan desire alone was not enough, Naka started it when he asked Sakurai to put Sonic in Melee, not the fans. All the fans ever did was buy into it. If you look back a page, I've quoted information from an interview done of Yuji Naka. Again, I'm not trying to discredit you in any way, I'm just stating the facts.
 

Jason the Yoshi

Watching Me, Wanting Me
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Messages
18,791
Location
Waiting for Jesus
Nintendo cooperating with Sony? That ain't happening. Maybe if Sony became third party it could happen, but I honestly see Nintendo buying up SEGA before that happens.
 

JamesDNaux

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
7,760
Location
Studio Naux
NNID
JamesDNaux
I don't mean to be rude or anything, but I'm kinda starting to think you're biased because you're a hardcore Snake supporter.
The guy who thinks Sonic deserves a second character is going to throw around the word bias? Ok, I'll bite. I have played a single MGS game in my life, and it's the newest one, Ground Zeroes. I had no experience with MGS before Brawl, and I still don't care to try out the older games much. I must ask though, what Snake even has to do with the topic in the first place?
For one thing, as I've said about an hour ago, Yuji Naka said himself in that interview that Sonic was planned for Melee, but was excluded due to time constraints just like Snake.
"Was planned," his name sure doesn't look like Masahiro Sakurai, I'm sure there may have been negotiations, but with third party characters you don't plan them and then cut them due to time constraints. Even if Sakurai had the idea of Sonic, nothing concrete ever happened so the original point still stands, he only got into Brawl due to fan demand. You know what else "was planned?" The Playstation was originally an addon for the Super Nintendo before Nintendo decided they didn't like their deal with Sony and went to Phillips instead. That deal fell through too and only ended in Hotel Mario and Zelda CDi, meanwhile Sony went on to make the Playstation its own console. The point I'm making? Planning something and doing something are worlds apart, a thought does not equal an action.
To answer your question, the only thing that made Sonic making it to Brawl take so long was that when Sakurai returned to SEGA about Sonic, Naka had been replaced. Fan desire alone was not enough, Naka started it when he asked Sakurai to put Sonic in Melee, not the fans. All the fans ever did was buy into it. If you look back a page, I've quoted information from an interview done of Yuji Naka. Again, I'm not trying to discredit you in any way, I'm just stating the facts.
Opinions are not facts. I saw what you posted and you didn't even get a source, but I happened to track it down and the interview is credible, but that's all it is, an interview. The cold hard facts are that A: Sonic was not in Melee and never made it past the "it's possible" stage, and B: Sonic was not planned for Brawl, and was only added late into development because Sakurai saw the massive amount of fans crying out for his inclusion. Did Sega and Nintendo negotiating beforehand help? Yes, but that didn't get Sonic in, otherwise he would have been planned from the beginning. It only made it easier for Sakurai to add him once he decided to.
 
Last edited:

Sehnsucht

The Marquis of Sass
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
8,457
Location
Behind your eyes.
The guy who thinks Sonic deserves a second character is going to throw around the word bias? Ok, I'll bite. I have played a single MGS game in my life, and it's the newest one, Ground Zeroes. I had no experience with MGS before Brawl, and I still don't care to try out the older games much. I must ask though, what Snake even has to do with the topic in the first place?
 

Lozjam

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
2,840
I agree with the fun part, but they both highly deserve a spot. Ness was first, so I think he should get first pick. I wouldn't ever remove either, but if one had to go, it wouldn't be the original 12 member.

And I dunno, the fact Ness is more recognizable among the entire world... never mind Earthbound is playable everywhere compared to Mother 3, which is not, wouldn't that make Ness a bit more relateable? Realistically speaking?


Well, the official reason was still "not enough time" regardless. There's no way to tell if he had a fair chance if time wasn't an issue. The problem is, he had no Nintendo appearances before Melee, right? I think that's why Sakurai would've said no. Before somebody notes Roy, he's a Nintendo character, so just like Giga Bowser or other originals, they are exceptions in that case.
Not to Sakurai, Ness was supposed to be cut in favor of Lucas in Melee and I believe he had higher priority than Ness in Brawl
 

Jason the Yoshi

Watching Me, Wanting Me
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Messages
18,791
Location
Waiting for Jesus
Why is it always me who comes out as "the guy who cares of nothing except a second Sonic player?" I haven't talked about that matter all day! More importantly, I have said that I support Chrom, Ridley, Krystal, and Dixie Kong, none of which are Sonic characters!
 
Last edited:

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,371
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Not to Sakurai, Ness was supposed to be cut in favor of Lucas in Melee and I believe he had higher priority than Ness in Brawl
Well, he didn't have the higher priority exactly.

His team convinced him not to bother and Mother 3 didn't take off yet. Meaning that even if Mother 3 happened, we may not have gotten Lucas. Also, supposedly Ganondorf was the last clone added, so we might've gotten Lucas as a secondary character instead.
 

JamesDNaux

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
7,760
Location
Studio Naux
NNID
JamesDNaux
@ Sehnsucht Sehnsucht

I've watched a bit of a let's play of MGS1, the game doesn't look like it's aged all that well, and apparently The Twin Snakes is a shoddy port. I actually did play the first five minutes of MGS4, but I just couldn't get into it at all and never bothered to play the rest of it. I'm interested in the original MSX2 games, but Nintendo is being really ****ty with their virtual console, it's already on the Wii's, yet they still haven't bothered to bring any over to the Wii U, so there's nothing I can do there.

Even if I wanted to play MGS1, I'd have to go through the trouble of actually getting the game, and I just can't be bothered.

I have to say though, Ground Zeroes is absolutely fantastic and I can't wait for Phantom Pain.

@ Jason the Yoshi Jason the Yoshi

Regardless of if you've "not talked about it all day," you once said that Sonic deserves a second character (and that it's even likely, of all things). I don't care much since I've see so many stupid requests already, but I'm not about to let you try and play the biased card on me with something like that on you already.
 

Houndstooth

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
808
Location
Alabama
Sorry guys. I got a computer update that I needed to do, and then got to playing Mega Man X on my Wii U...

About the Geno discussion: Geno would have to force his way through the crowd of more prominent Square-Enix characters as well, where Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are DEFINITELY bigger and more recognizable, especially Dragon Quest on the Nintendo side.
The other Square-Enix reps are very good and strong characters. I'm sure Dragon Quest is one that Square would like to push for if they were approached. If Sakurai approached for Geno because of popularity, then I could see them asking for DQ instead.

I don't want to sound rude or somethin'. And it's just my opinion. But...I don't see Geno happening in SSB4.
Fair enough. Everyone has characters they are adamant for and those that they couldn't care less about. Just personal preference. Not a personal attack. Though, most forum-goers will take characters too personal.

@ Jason the Yoshi Jason the Yoshi , It seems there are many talking with you about Sonic's inclusion in Melee/Brawl. I think Geno's fanbase(again Pre-Brawl), was very strong. I believe he likes to have fun with Smash fans and whatnot with funny pictures. He even likes blowing their minds by making characters that we never thought possible for a fighting game. But, he seems to like to hear what his fans think. Otherwise, why have the polls to begin with?
 

Jason the Yoshi

Watching Me, Wanting Me
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Messages
18,791
Location
Waiting for Jesus
@ Jason the Yoshi Jason the Yoshi

Regardless of if you've "not talked about it all day," you once said that Sonic deserves a second character (and that it's even likely, of all things). I don't care much since I've see so many stupid requests already, but I'm not about to let you try and play the biased card on me with something like that on you already.
I only happen to think that way mainly because of Nintendo's close ties with SEGA, but I'd be fine either if we do get one or not.
 

Lozjam

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
2,840
Well, he didn't have the higher priority exactly.

His team convinced him not to bother and Mother 3 didn't take off yet. Meaning that even if Mother 3 happened, we may not have gotten Lucas. Also, supposedly Ganondorf was the last clone added, so we might've gotten Lucas as a secondary character instead.
Mother 3 did take off in Japan though, besides Earthbound not selling well in Western Areas the reason it did not come to the U.S. Is because it had characters that were portrayed as transgender males, and a satire of consumerism.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,371
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Mother 3 did take off in Japan though, besides Earthbound not selling well in Western Areas the reason it did not come to the U.S. Is because it had characters that were portrayed as transgender males, and a satire of consumerism.
You misunderstand. The Mother 3 that was happening during Melee's time was Earthbound 64. That game got cancelled. We got the new Mother 3, via the GBA, way later.

Basically, there was no character to put in anymore. If there was, maybe Ganondorf or Pichu wouldn't have made it in. I think the rest were safe otherwise. Ganondorf never seemed to get in outside of the fact he could be a clone.
 

KaBlamJamDan

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
606
Location
Probably under my bed.
NNID
Kablamjamdan
3DS FC
5129-0509-8499
All this "Sonic in Melee" talk remind me of this:


And all that "defeat *insert number* of fighting wire frames in multi man melee to unlock Sonic!" rumors.

Also, how can we all forget about those toad rumors?

 

JamesDNaux

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
7,760
Location
Studio Naux
NNID
JamesDNaux
I only happen to think that way mainly because of Nintendo's close ties with SEGA, but I'd be fine either if we do get one or not.
You seem to have no idea whatsoever how business works, Nintendo and Sega aren't "close," they aren't buddies who just go up and say "hey, can we use Sonic/Mario in this game?" As companies, they do whatever they can do to make money, which is the reason Sakurai can't just add third parties just because he feels like it, Nintendo has to pay Sega to use Sonic, Sega makes a very small margin of profit from each copy of Brawl sold. Companies work together when it's of mutual benefit to both parties, this is why some deals end up broken (ie; Sony and Nintendo's fallout) and some companies end up bought out or merge together.

A good example of this is Wreck-it-Ralph, Mario didn't appear in the movie because Nintendo's price was too high for even Disney to pay for his appearance alone, Bowser on the other hand, was far cheaper. Sonic had a "bigger role" in that movie (and his heavy appearance in the promotional material), because Sega has basically been whoring him out to stay afloat, with him appearing in anything they can let him appear in to make money from, even Progressive commercials. Even if Sega's price is cheap, Sakurai isn't going to go through the trouble of a second Sonic character in a game of Nintendo all-stars, as even Sonic has no place there.
 

Sehnsucht

The Marquis of Sass
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
8,457
Location
Behind your eyes.
I only happen to think that way mainly because of Nintendo's close ties with SEGA, but I'd be fine either if we do get one or not.
That has little to do with how Third-Parties are selected, though.

The "equation" by which First-Party (/Second-Party) characters and Third-Party characters are considered for (and included in) a Smash game are wholly different affairs, using different variables. SEGA's business intimacy with Nintendo (or lack thereof) has no bearing on whether, for instance, we get a second Sonic character in a Smash game, because that's not part of the Third-Party selection process to begin with.

For reference:

-1st-2nd Parties are about adding essential, popular, and iconic characters in the Nintendo library to best represent Nintendo gaming history (main franchise mascots, notable supporting characters, major antagonists, historical and retro characters, etc.).

-3rd Parties are guests who are invited for their strong iconic status outside of Nintendo (i.e. in the broader gaming pop culture), with the caveat that the character has to have had games on a Nintendo system at some point (or at least, the most popular and iconic character from that genre).

Sonic is not an essential fighter in a Nintendo Crossover Fighter, but they invited him anyway because he's such a huge gaming icon. And if Sonic is not essential, then neither would any secondary Sonic character (whose iconic statuses in broader video game history and pop culture are inferior to Sonic anyway). As a result, getting a second Sonic character is a very strong implausibility, unless special conditions come into play (business intimacy with SEGA not being a sufficient condition).

And same goes for Mega Man and Solid Snake. Snake has a slightly different situation, since his inclusion was greatly facilitated by Sakurai's friendship with Kojima. But Snake also responds to the rest of the criteria; the Metal Gear series is the ostensible progenitor of the modern stealth-action genre, making Solid Snake (and secondarily, Naked Snake/Big Boss) the mascot of that entire genre.
 
Last edited:

Muster

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
1,351
Location
Kansas
NNID
Muster
3DS FC
3454-0690-6658
A good example of this is Wreck-it-Ralph, Mario didn't appear in the movie because Nintendo's price was too high for even Disney to pay for his appearance alone, Bowser on the other hand, was far cheaper. Sonic had a "bigger role" in that movie (and his heavy appearance in the promotional material), because Sega has basically been whoring him out to stay afloat, with him appearing in anything they can let him appear in to make money from, even Progressive commercials. Even if Sega's price is cheap, Sakurai isn't going to go through the trouble of a second Sonic character in a game of Nintendo all-stars, as even Sonic has no place there.
While this is a good point, the part about Mario being too expensive was actually a joke. Rich Moore could not find a good way to incorporate the bros into the movie, and he was apparently cut with luigi. They are set to appear in Wreck it Ralph 2, however.
Sonic still is a cashhog though

(I only know this because i didn't believe that mario would've been too expensive, and i looked it up after getting wreck it ralph on dvd, and then again 5 minutes ago to find the sequel thing)
 
Last edited:

JamesDNaux

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
7,760
Location
Studio Naux
NNID
JamesDNaux
Yeah, Prof. Layton is 3rd party. I do see Layton being the most likely 3rd party atm besides Pac-Man.
The entire post above you.
There is no "likely" for third parties, they either get in by heavy request (Sonic and Mega Man), or by direct request of the creator (Snake). Sakurai doesn't sit around looking at third party candidates, he only gets a whiff of them from polls. While Layton is a decently large series that are solely on Nintendo consoles, it's still a rather niche game with just a cult fanbase. Unless they all suddenly get really vocal and somehow coheres others into wanting him, he doesn't really have a chance.

I'm not trying to put anyone down, but realistically speaking, there is no "likely" scale for third parties, it's either do or don't.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom