My main aim for these changes is to help Jigglypuff have more of an opportunity to set up situations where she can make use of her most devastating kill move: Rest. As such, I'll start by first addressing the move iself, as it will be the center of most of the up-coming changes; I want to see her be an actual glass
cannon instead of just... glass.
Rest: Puff's most powerful, but extremely risky way of ending an opponent's stock.
- IASA: frame 230
- Intangible: 1-27
- Hitbox active: 2-4 → 1-2
- Active immediately upon input; one less frame of hitbox duration. A nerf, somewhat, though the intangibility makes the difference between being frame 1 and frame 2 completely irrelevant. This is more to force the Jigglypuff player to be perfectly accurate with his execution by reducing the window of frames the opponent has to "fall" into the hitbox (though the difference between lasting 2 frames as opposed to 3 is really almost negligible as well).
- Launch angle: 88° → 55°
- Now capable of killing vertically or horizontally, given the opponent's DI. This may seem like a nerf, but...
- Damage: 20.0% → 25.0%
- Huge damage increase to maximize the reward from landing such a risky all-or-nothing attack.
- Knockback: 100 base/66 growth → 81 base/85 growth.
- Combined with the damage increase, starts producing 200 units of knockback (that's a lot of knockback) on a weight 100 character at around 40%. For reference, Cloud's f-smash doesn't produce that much knockback until 101%, Ganondorf's at 76%, and Bowser's at 69%. With the lower angle, Resting someone close to a side blast zone is going to be one very early stock. It's unfair, as it should be for a move that can easily mean a lost stock if whiffed.
- Hitbox size: 3.4 (6.8) → 3.0 (6.0)
- Again, to force the Jigglypuff player to make absolutely sure they're on-point with the spacing of the move.
- Effect: flower
- Trip: none
- Hitlag/SDI: 1.0/1.0
- Clank/Rebound: No
- Shield damage: +25.0%
- This would mostly play into doubles and would make staying in shield vs. Puff (currently a very powerful countermeasure against the puffball) an extremely unsafe thing to do since not power-shielding a Rest would be an immediate shield break. In singles, being frame 230 actionable means the opponent will most likely have mashed back into his senses by the time Jigglypuff wakes up from her nap.
- Err... no, actually. This is absolutely insane even in singles because mashing out of a shield break takes a whole lot longer than the time it takes Jigglypuff to recover from using Rest, especially at low percents. This... should just not be a thing ever.
Now for the most guaranteed way to keep the opponent still long enough to land a Rest: jab-locks. Currently she has a total of six attacks that are capable of jab-locking an opponent (dash attack, f-tilt, f-smash, down smash, n-air, and f-air) and of those only frame 14, actionable frame 49 down smash is capable of locking opponents at any percentage. The easiest fix? Make her jab actually lock.
Jab 1: not very useful, but can be mixed up somewhat due to its low cooldown and the nature of its knockback.
- IASA: frame 17 → 18
- Adjusted for a faster jab with more useful utility.
- Transition to jab 2: frame 8 (jab 2 starts on frame 9)
- Jab 1 loop: frame 12 (jab 1 starts on frame 13)
- Active: 5-6 → 3-4
- Frame 5 is the average frame most swordsmen's jabs happen on, and stronger jabs tend to be slower than this to accommodate their power. Jigglypuff is not a swordsman, and neither is her jab itself strong at all. As such, there's no reason for her jab to be quite a slow as it is now. Most CQC character's jabs happen on frames, either, 2 or 3. ZSS and Little Mac both have frame 1 jabs.
- Damage: 3.0% → 2.5%
- Altered due to a change in knockback.
- Launch angle: 60°/78° → 361°
- Launch angle is the single most important determinant of whether a hitbox can jab-lock at all. A 361° angle is able to jab-lock from 0% to 42% or also depending on the knockback produced.
- Knockback: 12 base/50 growth → 15 fixed/100 growth
- And this change means Jigglypuff's jab will never lift an opponent off the ground, meaning it will jab-lock a missed tech no matter what percentage of damage the victim has accrued. An additional side effect of this change is the ability for her jab to slide opponents off of platforms into an untechable tumble, which she can then capitalize on by chasing down with another jab. And the rest is history.
- Effect: none
- Trip: none
- Hitlag/SDI: 1.0/1.0
- Clank/Rebound: yes
Another way good players are able connect with their most vicious attacks is in the form of tech-chases and get-up reads. One very easy method of putting an opponent in a chase situation is to apply pressure in the form of tripping. Wario is rather famous for his ability to Waft players from a get-up read off of his late dash attack's ability to trip foes 100% of the time. Let's take one of Jigglypuff's more useless attacks (not named Rollout) and give her a similar set-up to what Wario has access to.
Down tilt: rarely used, but it can serve to send opponents off-stage at a low trajectory and set up for a ledge-guard.
- IASA: frame 31 → 36
- Combined with a change in active frames, the overall cooldown of the attack goes from 17 frames (13-30) to 20 frames (15-35). This is to give tripped opponents the time to input their escape before Jigglypuff is able to jump in with a frame 1 unbeatable kill move.
- Active: 10-12 → 12-14
- Right at the threshold of being reactable to for most people. If the possible reward is a lost stock at 40% it seems reasonable that an action should have start-up akin to a smash attack.
- Damage: 10.0% → 6.0%
- Damage isn't particularly important for an attack with a 100% trip rate, but another one of my aims is to put more of an emphasis on Puff's air game over her ground game, so racking up damage should be a job left to her aerial toolkit.
- Launch angle: 20° → 0°
- Opponents don't trip when lifted off of the ground.
- Knockback: 50 base/55 growth → 23 base/100 growth
- This change, combined with a damage nerf, keeps the opponents close by at first while gaining enough power that, as percentage rises, the opponent slides back far enough away from Jigglypuff during their tripping to make rolling away a safe escape option, forcing the Puff player to find other methods of closing out a stock. To tie this into her glass cannon nature, the longer an opponent lives, the more likely it is that Jigglypuff will be dying early to their rage.
- Effect: none
- Trip rate: none → 100%
- This is a powerful, powerful change that exploits a player's escape habits and the main reason for why I'm choosing to nerf down tilt in almost every other aspect. In the hands of a quick, observant player this can make Jigglypuff a fearsome beast, indeed.
- Hitag/SDI: 1.0/1.0
- Clank/Rebound: yes
Most characters have in their tilt game one or two quick attacks (usually an up or down tilt) that put a grounded opponent into an unfavorable position above them in the air. This ground-to-air interaction is all the more important for a character such as Jiggs that aims to be the more overwhelming force when engaged in aerial combat. F-tilt is more of a grounded spacing option (though a rather unsafe one), and down tilt is already serving another purpose, so let's re-purpose up tilt.
Up tilt: currently used mainly as a surprise kill move.
- IASA: frame 24 → 26
- Acitve: 9-10 clean, 11-13 late → 6-7 clean, 8-10 late
- Faster start-up, but with a later first actionable frame the overall cooldown increases from 9 frames (14-23) to 14 frames (11-25).
- Damage: 9.0% clean, 8.0% late → 8.0% clean, 7.0% late
- Launch angle: 96° clean, 88° late → 68° clean, 68° late
- Originally, both angles serve to push the opponent up and in front of Jigglypuff (the clean frames due to hitting from behind Puff, while the late frames mostly due to hitting opponents in front of Puff). With this change opponents behind Puff will instead be kicked back as her leg rises, and opponents in front will still be kicked away, but at a lower angle. Due to Smash 4's weakened DI capability the more horizontal angles are to directly prevent up tilt to Rest from being a confirm at low percents vs. most characters. Up tilt should serve to place opponents in a position where Puff can capitalize with her aerial prowess. Of course, if you decide to play the conditioning game you can always get an air dodge read to Rest if you're confident enough.
- Knockback: 40 base/120 growth → 60 base/69 growth
- A change from 40 to 60 base knockback, in conjunction with altered launch angles, keeps up tilt from being a spammable option at low percentages (produces a rather large 75/76 units of knockback and 29 frames of hitstun at 0% against vs. a weight 100 character) while the neutered knockback growth will keep opponents rather close-by even as percentages start to rise (producing a weak--relatively-speaking--118/124 units of knockback and 46/48 frames of hitstun at 100% vs. the same character).
- Effect: none
- Trip: none
- Hitlag/SDI: 1.0/1.0
- Clank/Rebound: Yes
As for Jigglypuff's other grounded normals they're, either, already decent enough tools (dash attack and f-smash) or inconsequential in the overall scheme of what she wants to accomplish (f-tilt, down smash). Only two more changes:
Jab 2:
- IASA: frame 20 → 18
- Active: 5-6 → 3-4
- Due to Jab 1's transition frame staying at frame 8 Jab 2's start-up has to get the same change to retain the same cooldown (6 frames; 7-8, 1-4 → 5-8, 1-2) when transitioning between jabs. Jab 2's overall cooldown remains the same due to an earlier first actionable frame.
- Damage: 3.0% → 2.5%
- Which drops Puff's Dual Chop's (though Puff can't actually learn Dual Chop in Pokémon games without hacking and neither does Corrin take additional damage from the attack) damage output from 6.0% to 5.0%.
- Launch angle: 55°/65° → 361°
- Which would still allow you to extend a jab-lock before 42% if you accidentally input a Jab 2 while trying to extend a jab-lock with Jab 1.
- Knockback: 22 base/50 growth → 32 base/50 growth
- For added safety on-hit, due to the change in launch angle.
- Effect: none
- Trip: none
- Hitlag/SDI: 1.0/1.0
- Clank/Rebound: yes
Up smash:
- IASA: frame 46 → 49
- Charge: frame 9 → 2
- Active: 16-19 → 9-12
- To give Puff something meaty out-of-shield outside of n-air and Rest. Overall cooldown increases from 25 frames (20-45) to 35 frames (13-48) and she still doesn't get head intangibility the way other headbutt up smashes do.
- Damage: 14.0%/12.0% → 12.0%/10.0%
- Nerfed due to the pretty sizable buff in the form of much faster start-up (now one frame slower than Mario's up smash)
- Launch angle: 87° → 80°
- Knockback: 20 base/105 growth → 28 base/115 growth
- Both combinations of damage and knockback will produce 200 units of knockback--sweetspotted--at 123% vs. a weight 100 character.
- Effect: none
- Trip: none
- Hitlag/SDI: 1.0/1.0
- Clank/Rebound: yes
Jigglypuff is not a grappling character (the fact that she can grab someone at all with those stubby arms of her is astounding) so there's no reason to alter her grab data and to further emphasize this I'd actually propose nerfs to some of her throws; basically, you shouldn't be seeking to grab things out-of-shield as Jigglypuff.
Forward throw:
- Thrown on: frame 10, secondary hitbox (slap hitbox when Jigglypuff blows up) on frame 12.
- Weight dependent: no
- Damage: 5%/5% (10.0% total output) → 4%/4% (8.0% total output)
- Angle:
- Throw hitbox: 55° → 45°
- This would help slightly in stage control, and really not much else.
- Secondary hitbox: 361°
- Knockback:
- Throw hitbox: 30 base/100 growth → 48 base/85 growth
- This more or less retains similar knockback compared to if the throw hitbox did 5% damage, and actually completely neuters any kill potential the throw may have had.
- Secondary hitbox: 40 base/110 growth → 55 base/155 growth
- This hitbox doesn't actually act on the target being thrown--aside from tacking on extra damage--but instead produces a large hitbox around Jigglypuff that's capable of hitting other fighters nearby. This only applies to doubles and acts as a "get off me" option against someone coming in to punish Puff for throwing.
- Secondary hitbox size: 10.56 (21.12) → 10.5 (21.0)
Back throw:
- Throw on: frame 26
- Weight dependent: yes
- Damage: 10.0% → 8.0%
- Angle: 45°
- Knockback: 25 base/90 growth → 46 base/85 growth
- The change to base knockback helps a bit more in stage control early, but the nerf in power and knockback growth make it very much impossible for the throw to kill at reasonable percents.
Up throw:
- Thrown on: frame 9
- Interesting to note about this throw frame is that all throws are invincible 1-8, meaning Puff's up throw cannot be stopped once it starts.
- Weight dependent: yes
- Damage: 10.0% → 8.0%
- Angle: 90°
- Knockback: 30 base/110 growth → 71 base/85 growth
- Base knockback increased significantly to compensate for decreased damage and knockback growth. Opponents fly farther at lower percentages, but the throw still never poses the threat of killing.
Down throw:
- Thrown on: frame 60; secondary hitbox on frame 62
- Weight dependent: no
- Damage: 5.0%/5.0% → 4.0%/4.0%
- In line with the decrease of all the other throws' damage output from 10.0% to 8.0%.
- Angle:
- Throw hitbox: 80°
- Secondary hitbox: 40°
- Knockback: 45 base/100 growth → 48 base/85 growth
Jigglypuff is not particularly reliant on specials so, outside of fixing one
glaring flaw, there's very little that really needs to be done with them; Rest has already been addressed.
The biggest problem (and there are plenty) with Rollout is the fact that Jigglypuff goes into an uninterruptible spinning tumble after she hits an opponent. This can be rather devastating if she's trying to recover form off-stage as an opponent can intercept her recovery by simply
getting hit which can get them an impromptu stock by punishing Jigglypuff for successfully landing an attack. The move itself is extremely predictable and easy to avoid, not to mention it requires a certain amount of charge to even deal
any sort of damage, so the fact that she can possibly lose a stock just for hitting someone (I've seen Mario players get hit, then **** on Puff players by--if not outright caping her off the stage--repeatedly spamming FLUDD to keep her off-stage and there's literally
nothing Puff can do to survive) is completely inexcusable. I see two ways of fixing this.
One way is to make the tumble state actionable after a certain number of frames. The most common-sense change would be for the tumble to be actionable after reaching the apex of the bounce, but that runs the risk of possibly creating a combo move so the first actionable frame would probably have to be a lot later than that. She takes 74 frames to touch the ground--whereupon she receives
further landing lag--after hitting a grounded opponent, so I think the 60-70 range would be a good option, that way she still gets the pretty massive cooldown, but isn't forced to also endure landing lag afterwards and she doesn't just outright die when hitting an aerial opponent off-stage.
The second method--and my personal favorite--would be to make Relentless Rollout her standard neutral special. If you don't know, Relentless Rollout is basically just a Rollout that doesn't stop once it strikes someone; it just goes right through them, making it a much better recovery tool than standard Rollout. It only does about 1% or 2% damage per hit when it connects, but the inability for Jigglypuff to die from successfully hitting someone is a huge boon for a character that really doesn't need help dying in the first place. Inb4 "muh customs": the very nature of this thread is a counterargument for that statement.
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