Silver Tongue: Move Analysis Changes and Tips

[Nikes]

How do you guys feel about all we've seen of him so far? :D

 

[RPGatWill]

I'm looking forward to Yoshi-ing it up come October personally. I don't know all of the technical stuff, but he's looking pretty solid. Seems his smash might be a little easier to control. (At least way better than Sonic for me.)

 

[Egg.]

All of the buffed specials seem like they will make him much more of an offensive threat! Egg lay actually causes people to plummet now which provides a great off-stage weapon, and egg roll seems like it won't be completely useless this time around. Up+B has less recovery potential now, but it seems to be much faster and is made up for by the fact that Side+B seems to act as somewhat of a shield and doesn't leave you helpless in midair.

And while the damage done per move is reduced, dsmash has much less lag and much more range as far as I can tell, and dair actually pops your opponent into the air after the last hit so you aren't open to an easy jab like before. I think all of these improvements around the board will make playing as Yoshi even more fun than before! Not to mention that all of his new animations make him look incredibly cute :3

 

[JE-AT]

Um. I played Yoshi. I noticed a bug or glitch with him. I think I was trying to grab someone. (Don't remember if it was regular or pivot) After the animation was done, I froze. My idle animation stopped and everything wasn't operable anymore unless I got hit. Also, his Up-B can travel lower than himself more than previous smash titles. Great for throwing off ledges.

 

[Sinister Slush]

So it was a glitch I saw in one of those matches.
Think it was the one with both green and yellow Yoshi on prism tower or whatever stage.

 

[Yikarur]

Yes it's a glitch. You can see that quite often. It seems to always happen when someone breaks out of the standing grab.

 

[Yikarur]

wow my phone has eaten my post.
I've played the demo today, quick recap:
- DJC Egg Lay does not work. I was asking myself how this should work anyway with the DJ sky rocketing.
- Yoshi kann hop while egg rolling. It looks amazing.
- too cute

I love this game so far

 

[Nikes]

wow my phone has eaten my post.
I've played the demo today, quick recap:
- DJC Egg Lay does not work. I was asking myself how this should work anyway with the DJ sky rocketing.

x1000 's
Is it completely because his DJ rising speed or that neutral B doesn't actually cancel the momentum? And where'd you get to play the demo? Edit: Oh yeah, at that gamescom tournament huh...

 

[Sinister Slush]

Ah cool. So jumping out of egg roll was a thing.
Post more if anything later.

 

[Yikarur]

the DJC functioned because Yoshi goes.low first with his DJ so far so you cancelled the jump while having no upward momentum.
Thw DJC in Smash 4 is sky rocketing so no cancels.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The new double jump is basically a double edged sword. We have a faster jump that lets us recover faster and maybe even faster ledge snaps and such along with followups in the air, but loss is basically DJC and DR.

 

[Nikes]

Has anyone been able to test/confirm if these are still in?
-Egg toss slide
-Ledge thrown eggs
-B reversing/wavebouncing

Considering the importance of these ATs to Yoshi, anxious to know.

Edit: not as important but just noticed down-B's slope slide's back :D

 

[Sinister Slush]

B-reverse still in
ETS I saw a couple times on the stage, don't think people have done it near ledge yet.
We still have the hops on Egg toss, I'd assume Ledge camping we can still do, just less hops though since prolly 3 is the max for us most likely.

 

[Yikarur]

I couldn't really test ledge eggs because of tap-jump. I hate Tap Jump so much ~_~
B-Reverse is compeltely back.
The egg roll jump is cool but it's still egg roll so I'm not sure if this move has any uses.
The momentum controlling ability while you toss your egg killed me many times because I wasn't expecting this. Feels very new.

Yoshis General physics and how he feels is 1:1 like Brawl. The game overall feels like Brawl but few things are flat out faster. (Fast Falls).

I was 5 days at gamescom and have a lot of gameplay time. Obviously I didn't waste a lot on Yoshi because I could figure out the most with very litte play.
But Dash -> reverse Ftilt is really cool

 

[Sinister Slush]

Few week bump, but wanted to point out a few things Zipzo from two days ago said. I don't exactly remember every bit of info he told us from his time with the japanese demo, but one thing that caught my eye was the ledge mechanics. basically a cooldown on when we can grab the ledge again.

At first it seems like stuff like Planking or even MK nerf, but what I'm surprised nobody who mained Yoshi in brawl caught onto or even brought up is the fact it nerfs our ability to camp the ledge with eggs like we used too.
This is kinda a big nerf fer us since the ledge is our best friend next to Yoshi's Island Brawl stage.

Edit: Though one bit of info I just found, they may have massively buffed Yoshi's Upair, one of Yoshi's three main kill moves from brawl.
It's supposedly like hitting Falcon's Knee, if it's true then that'd be really good for us and I'd trade that for being unable to ledge camp as much as I could in brawl for even more kill power.

 

[Nikes]

I wonder if that means we won't be able to downB ledge-regrab :S I just can't imagine not having that...maybe the 'cooldown' time on the ledge will just allow for it, possibly?

 

[RPGatWill]

I wonder if that means we won't be able to downB ledge-regrab :S I just can't imagine not having that...maybe the 'cooldown' time on the ledge will just allow for it, possibly?

There's no way to know without testing it once the game actually comes out.

 

[Knighto]

Wow, yoshi is looking promising. Hopefully he's good, but at least he looks fun!

 

[Nikes]

There's no way to know without testing it once the game actually comes out.

Unless by chance someone knew to test this at the event, but yeah slim chance

Wow, yoshi is looking promising. Hopefully he's good, but at least he looks fun!

The most fun

 

[meleebrawler]

So Egg Roll no longer leaves Yoshi helpless.

Now the question is if it still gives crap horizontal distance and momentum cancels as well as in Brawl.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Who knows on the momentum cancel. Because not many people like Yoshi he wasn't played much in the tournament they had at E3 I believe, while the Demos don't even have him.
Otherwise horizantal in air is crap but no helpless state for characters who have side-B's that put them in helpless state is a huge buff for people like Yoshi fox Falco etc.

 

[Nikes]

If egg roll still cancels momentum this will be huge now.

 

[meleebrawler]

If egg roll still cancels momentum this will be huge now.

A heavy with an awesome momentum canceller on par with bucket braking?

The percentages... so high...

 

[Sinister Slush]

Through out the 20+ hours of three different streamers playing smash 4, not one of em played Yoshi. Along with Yoshi cpu almost never living for even 15 seconds long and not just jumping around using egg toss only.

It's truly upsetting tbh that we couldn't see a bit more gameplay from final product to see any new changes or even just accidental things that could benefit Yoshi in some way. But since Egg toss was used so much from the computers, it did just give us insight on how great the mobility is when using it, but that's it.

 

[Klaww]

Gema's stream just showed off 2 of Yoshi's custom moves.

One of them looks like a stronger down-B. Couldn't tell what was different about it other than the fact that all the visual effects around it were blue.

The other one was an egg-lay.

One of Yoshi's custom egg-lays launches people backwards in an egg instead of dropping them downward. Might be kinda cool for defending yourself against people trying to edgeguard you or something.

So far I prefer the regular specials though.

 

[Nikes]

Have you guys seen? 2 of Yoshi's custom moves have been shown off!
He has a down B that's just like the one from Yoshi's Island with the initial flip and everything, no joke! And he has an egg lay that sends the opponents really far to the side, by about 3 or 4 characters o_o I'll see if I can track down the part of the vid.

Edit: Aww, just beaten to it :L

 

[Klaww]

He has a down B that's just like the one from Yoshi's Island with the initial flip and everything, no joke!

Oh is that what it is?

Maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention. That sounds pretty cool though. Any idea if it functions any differently? I couldn't tell.

 

[Nikes]

Oh is that what it is?

Maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention. That sounds pretty cool though. Any idea if it functions any differently? I couldn't tell.

Not sure about damage or kill potential or anything, but I don't think it had the stars sadly. (Possible mini-quake on the sides that could be equivalent?) He stops/stalls in mid-air and did the little flip he does in the games before plummeting downwards. That could be good for punishing whiffed spotdodges or something.



Edit: Here's the custom moves: http://www.twitch.tv/gema_yue/b/567742352 @6:10:20

 

[Egg.]

I could see that egg lay custom being potentially useful for some risky/flashy edge-guarding - when someone is trying to recover you could jump off the stage and b-reverse to send them flying back! Not sure if it's worth sacrificing the potential damage on follow ups though. Does anyone know if it's been confirmed that opponents are trapped in the egg for longer than they used to be?

Thanks for linking that stream also, I never would have been able to find what you guys were talking about otherwise

 

[Sinister Slush]

I highly doubt custom moves will be allowed in Tournaments.

 

[Egg.]

Eh, I'm not much of a competitive player anyway. I'm just more interested in fun mechanics for messing with my friends.

Regardless, I hope that egg lay does end up being buffed - it's one of my favorite moves to use just for the sheer entertainment and it would be nice if it actually had a more practical use besides throwing it in as a mix-up.

 

[Nikes]

I'm sure custom moves moves will be fine, we haven't found any game breaking customs yet.


On another note, we'll need a combo section in a Yoshi thread somewhere but that time will come when the game releases, so I'll leave this here for now:

Yoshi's Usmash radius looks too large to be avoided by merely DI'ing the jab, looks even more promising than Yoshi's Jab>down B from Brawl :D Hopefully there's enough stun from the jab to make this a guaranteed...

Also, his jab range is incredible:

 

[Ghirahilda]

What about his custom moves?

 

[Sinister Slush]

I don't know the % on olimar because it didn't show, but I think we need to look at the fact that the first hit of Bair almost killed him.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Randomly wandering into the 3ds competitive subforum made me find out that Yoshi got a slight weight nerf. 104 from 107. But he's still pretty much top 10 in weight department and heavier than 80% of the cast.

 

[Nikes]

Randomly wandering into the 3ds competitive subforum made me find out that Yoshi got a slight weight nerf. 104 from 107. But he's still pretty much top 10 in weight department and heavier than 80% of the cast.

No big drama, it's more appropriate to the character to be a little lighter anyway, besides this games large death boundaries will definitely compensate for this.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Updated title and changed OP a bit cause I doubt most newcomers on smashboards scroll through entire first post if it's huge so I moved Damage of the moves (still demo stuff btw, might need people who have the game to give better % stuff) and added tips that I or others have found/noticed.

As fer another thingy I noticed, the gif I posted is an obvious one.

 

[Nikes]

Love the work here Slush, good job.
Bair spiking, who would've guessed?

 

[Egg.]

That's nice to have for reference, I didn't realize that down+B did so much damage.

Also, would it be worth recording the damage of custom moves as we find them? I noticed from rewatching the twitch stream that the custom egg lay does 12-13% compared to the default 8% (12, 12, 13, 12, 12), and custom ground pound did a whopping 22-23% compared to the default 15%. (23, 22, 23, 22)

 

[Sinister Slush]

That could prolly be for another thread, I honestly don't care about custom moves much for obvious reasons. It won't be tournament viable.