side b

[P.C. Jona]

how come no one uses it like ken used to?

the 3rd hit when you do it to the side is real strong

it is useful, i use roy and when i switched to marth i forgot and i used it like if i was roy, not as much but still a good amount

is it just out of the metagame or something?

 

[Miggz]

Hey dude, its been like years. =P

Anyway, all the characters were played much differently then when ken was playing. So its probably a combination of that, and personal preference.

 

[metashinryu]

wow,for real,i even forgot about dancing blade ,marth still has that? i will check that later...

 

[Cactuar]

The reason no one uses it like Ken used to is that people know how to DI out of it now imo.

 

[JesiahTEG]

And you can crouch cancel it pretty easily.

 

[Mogwai]

Jona, come play me this weekend and I'll teach you why

 

[P.C. Jona]

looooooooool
iight wes

thanks tho peeps

i didnt know it was easily crouch canceled or you can di out of it lol

and wes can you record some matches when we play?
like when i play marth, i wanna watch them cuz i play marth really weird

 

[MexicanBJ]

also i think rolling behind kinda ***** it lolzers

 

[P.C. Jona]

well i know its useful for sure

you just need to know when to stop

it works for me tho, very well

 

[Havokbringer]

Also I think there are just easier options to kill someone rather then having to do 3 different hits.

Although the pivot sword dance is still sexy.

 

[JustinOkay]

I mainly use for recovery. slowly use the first side attack oh his sword dance while airborn to slightyl influence direction.

I also use it for mind games on noobs. SH forward begin sword dance in air opposite direction of jumping.

 

[JFox]

imo the first forward b is super useful. it has great anti-air properties, good range, and the way it brings the opponent to you and up allows you to pseudo combo into other things (unlike the jab).

all the rest of the hits are very situational. I've seen good use of it by G$$, but even he knows to be careful not to extend its use past its capabilities.

 

[Niko45]

1st hit is sick the rest are not going to work more than a couple of times. It's best use to me is if you for example nair someone's shield and land behind them you can quickly side b them and catch them coming out of shield. Prolly safer to just dash away after you land but it's tempting bc it can combo to up tilt and other lucrative combo moves.

 

[thequestion]

I use Marth's side b as my fast attack with Marth. However, I usually don't hit with anything more than the third (the ^ variation of the third has the most knockback). The trick with using this attack is to use the different forms of the attack for maximum effectiveness.

 

[ANYSKY]

I'm pretty sure you can shield/counter the 3rd and 4th hits anyways since there's that slight pause between the 2nd and 3rd side b. But that might just be cause my friend's slow with it. idk.

and it's true that you can cc it (idk about di out of it though)

The first side b is very useful for recovery and also, to an extent, to combo. The others not so much.

 

[Roche_CL]

i think its a little risky
some players aren't used to it, and don't know how to DI or fight it, then you can abuse a little
it has really nice knockback, don't know how much damage though

if you try it and your opponent CC, or you just see that it isn't working, stop doing it.
first sideB is good against floaties cause sometimes comboes with Utilt on high % -> death.

when i see people blocks it, i go for downwards third hit, i've seen azen or other pros do it, sometimes messing up with the shield grab, though they can still grab you.

 

[pkmvodka]

it's really good against falcon

 

[TresChikon]

it pokes his knee

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^no, it's cause Falcon has no OoS game <_< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdYucDAgMvU&feature=channel_page

And third hit down pushes you back outside of grab range. At that point, Falcon can either

1. Nair (crouch cancel the first hit and you're good)
2. Perfectly time a knee if you're too close (learn2space)
3. Perfectly time a wavedash OoS to grab (kinda hard to time. Most people don't know how much shieldstun this hit has)

but I do you side B too much <_<

btw shieldbreaking is a viable strategy against some characters <_<

 

[TresChikon]

I haven't seen a lot of shieldbreaking nowadays, except for 64 matches

So I'll just avoid using it against like Spacies or Samus, or Boozer or pepo with annoying OoS stuff

 

[P.C. Jona]

^^no, it's cause Falcon has no OoS game <_< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdYucDAgMvU&feature=channel_page

And third hit down pushes you back outside of grab range. At that point, Falcon can either

1. Nair (crouch cancel the first hit and you're good)
2. Perfectly time a knee if you're too close (learn2space)
3. Perfectly time a wavedash OoS to grab (kinda hard to time. Most people don't know how much shieldstun this hit has)

but I do you side B too much <_<

btw shieldbreaking is a viable strategy against some characters <_<

im pretty sure its cuz eggz falcon is not that good

all you gotta do is roll away you dont have to attack oos

 

[TresChikon]

So rolling with anyone who has a decent roll would destroy Marth's DED?

 

[Dark Sonic]

im pretty sure its cuz eggz falcon is not that good

all you gotta do is roll away you dont have to attack oos

So rolling with anyone who has a decent roll would destroy Marth's DED?

I don't think you guys understand what I was implying <_<

I was saying that they're ONLY option would be rolling away. So it can actually be used as a positioning tool to make them move closer to the edge (rolling behind you gets them grabbed, spotdodging does nothing, and Falcon can't attack you OoS that effectively).

And it's not like you're getting punished for doing it. Worst case scenerio they opponent just gets away and neither of you get hit. Best case scenerio you trap your opponent at a ledge and get a very, very basic mixup.

And it also has nothing to do with how good Eggz' Falcon is <_<. I pulled side B traps on Darkrain too. Falcon can't really do much to punish it, all he can do is get away to a neutral position (and eventually he'll run out of stage room for that).

As for the whole shieldbreaking thing, it's because some characters are really bad at dealing with pressure, and so they will be shielding for quite a while looking for some kind of hole in your offense. Basically, you tend to wear down some character's shields more than others naturally, because they're bad at switching from defense to offense (this won't work at all against someone like Fox, but Ganon's gonna be shielding your attacks all day). So wearing down people's shields while playing normally, and just throwing in a shieldbreaker if it ever gets below half of their shield is a perfectly legitimate strategy against unsuspecting opponents. Eggz isn't the only person who's shield I broke at Genesis. I've also broken TAJ's shield multiple times (with him playing as various characters )

Don't knock it before you try it. Even if the shield doesn't break (because of you doing the shieldbreaker too early), then you just scared the **** out of your opponent and pretty much guranteed that they will roll or spotdodge in every situation where they would've shielded before (yay predictability) for the next 20 seconds

 

[P.C. Jona]

lets talk hypothetically

if the falcon lightsheilds and you go through all 4 of the hits from the ded wont his sheild be up still and not get poked cant you get sheild grabbed? falcon doesnt move when he gets hit from a light shield right?

also i would just jump away oos and dj over u and like back air or some ish
theres always a way out of that

its not like its a shine lol theres a way out of your shield but you just gotta be smart

 

[C!Z]

I don't think you guys understand what I was implying <_<

I was saying that they're ONLY option would be rolling away. So it can actually be used as a positioning tool to make them move closer to the edge (rolling behind you gets them grabbed, spotdodging does nothing, and Falcon can't attack you OoS that effectively).

And it's not like you're getting punished for doing it. Worst case scenerio they opponent just gets away and neither of you get hit. Best case scenerio you trap your opponent at a ledge and get a very, very basic mixup.

And it also has nothing to do with how good Eggz' Falcon is <_<. I pulled side B traps on Darkrain too. Falcon can't really do much to punish it, all he can do is get away to a neutral position (and eventually he'll run out of stage room for that).

As for the whole shieldbreaking thing, it's because some characters are really bad at dealing with pressure, and so they will be shielding for quite a while looking for some kind of hole in your offense. Basically, you tend to wear down some character's shields more than others naturally, because they're bad at switching from defense to offense (this won't work at all against someone like Fox, but Ganon's gonna be shielding your attacks all day). So wearing down people's shields while playing normally, and just throwing in a shieldbreaker if it ever gets below half of their shield is a perfectly legitimate strategy against unsuspecting opponents. Eggz isn't the only person who's shield I broke at Genesis. I've also broken TAJ's shield multiple times (with him playing as various characters )

Don't knock it before you try it. Even if the shield doesn't break (because of you doing the shieldbreaker too early), then you just scared the **** out of your opponent and pretty much guranteed that they will roll or spotdodge in every situation where they would've shielded before (yay predictability) for the next 20 seconds

your marth is crazy ****, but please dont judge how good i am overall or how good my characters are off that set haha

-Eggz

 

[P.C. Jona]

uh that was genesis

thats where you show how good you are
thats where you try your best
thats where blah blah blah

nooooooooooooooo johns

 

[Dark Sonic]

lets talk hypothetically

if the falcon lightsheilds and you go through all 4 of the hits from the ded wont his sheild be up still and not get poked cant you get sheild grabbed? falcon doesnt move when he gets hit from a light shield right?

You move FARTHER when you light shield and take MORE shield damage <_<. Not only that, but they'd get pushed far out of range of the 4th hit anyway...so I wouldn't do it <_<

also i would just jump away oos and dj over u and like back air or some ish
theres always a way out of that

You don't have time to get behind me. That's what I've been trying to tell you. After the shieldstun from the third hit is over there is not enough time to hit Marth with any move other than nair if the Marth is properly spaced. And nair can be crouch canceled and punished very easily as well. You don't get to dj over me, cause I'm too far away (and then you get uptilted with no double jump. VERY bad idea). And jumping away OoS still runs the risk of getting hit by the fourth hit (up version) if I decide to do it (which can be combo'd from), although that's a risk for me <_<

its not like its a shine lol theres a way out of your shield but you just gotta be smart

Did I ever say it was like shine? I said that it drastically reduces his options and have so far shut down each option you brought up barring...two? Rolling away or jumping away OoS (which this one is simply a mixup because it has a counter too <_<) But since that mixup is risky I tend to stray away from it, so yes jumping away OoS is another way to escape. But the point wasn't that they can't escape (cause obviously they can). The point was that they can't really PUNISH it unless you mess up and do too many swings. This doesn't go for all characters obviously (Marth will punish you all day lol), but on the ones that it does work on, it's pretty much free shield damage.

your marth is crazy ****, but please dont judge how good i am overall or how good my characters are off that set haha

-Eggz

And by that same token, don't judge how good my Marth is off of that set either <_<. I can tell you made quite a few mistakes that you don't normally make, but the same goes for me. I used that video to showcase side B being utilized as a decent shield trap.

uh that was genesis

thats where you show how good you are
thats where you try your best
thats where blah blah blah

nooooooooooooooo johns

the point of showing the vid wasn't to say that I'm better than Eggz or anything. The point was that side B actually does have SOME merrit as a shield pressure option because it is hard to punish. Yes they can GET AWAY from you, but you haven't taken damage and have worn down their shield, which is a win in my book (worn down shields=more shield stabs, reckless playstyle changes, awesome looking shieldbreaks, ect.)



Now is side B going to revolutionize Marth's pressure game? Hell no!

It comes out too slow, it can be crouch canceled on hit to shield the rest (or hit him back if your someone with a really fast d-tilt), it's not that disjointed, it's very punishable on whiff, the list goes on. But I do believe it can be used as a character specific pressure tool to just add to Marth's already amazing zoning game against them. It's an underrated move, but admittedly not by much. I was just hilighting the GOOD parts of it.

 

[P.C. Jona]

Did I ever say it was like shine? I said that it drastically reduces his options and have so far shut down each option you brought up barring...two? Rolling away or jumping away OoS (which this one is simply a mixup because it has a counter too <_<) But since that mixup is risky I tend to stray away from it, so yes jumping away OoS is another way to escape. But the point wasn't that they can't escape (cause obviously they can). The point was that they can't really PUNISH it unless you mess up and do too many swings. This doesn't go for all characters obviously (Marth will punish you all day lol), but on the ones that it does work on, it's pretty much free shield damage.

Now is side B going to revolutionize Marth's pressure game? Hell no!

It comes out too slow, it can be crouch canceled on hit to shield the rest (or hit him back if your someone with a really fast d-tilt), it's not that disjointed, it's very punishable on whiff, the list goes on. But I do believe it can be used as a character specific pressure tool to just add to Marth's already amazing zoning game against them. It's an underrated move, but admittedly not by much. I was just hilighting the GOOD parts of it.

the point of me saying its not like a shine was that, if your perfect with a shine youll break sheilds, even if you were perfect with the ded you can get punished for it. i didnt say that you said it, i was just trying to say what i said up top.

and i really think that if theres anything left to advance marths meta game its his side b.
messing around with it and finding different situations instead of typical ariels will definitely make some changes

 

[Eggz]

Alright, agree'd DS.

I do like your over B **** a lot. I was telling someone about it, but I forgot who.

Are you going to any other tournaments over here anytime soon? Or are there any big east coast tournaments coming up in winter other than Pound?

 

[Dark Sonic]

Alright, agree'd DS.

I do like your over B **** a lot. I was telling someone about it, but I forgot who.

Are you going to any other tournaments over here anytime soon? Or are there any big east coast tournaments coming up in winter other than Pound?

Thanks.

And that's a pretty long distance for either of us to travel <_<. We probably won't be seeing each other except at really, really big tournaments (I don't travel past Georgia that often ).

Pound's pretty much the only OoS I'll be going to this winter.

 

[Dart]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wD74hlZv3w&feature=channel_page
this has all three games in the set...*this was from a long time ago* but the last game of the set first kill is good use of the side b

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNDkU7RCcX4&feature=channel
in this one look down at one of the comments it has posted the time of the side b combo

 

[Eggz]

Haha see you at Pound then.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

side b jab thunders. thudering is old skool.

yeah, side b jab to force a get up(if they miss a tech) then u can grab or dtilt.

 

[Dark Sonic]

side B doesn't force get ups <_<. It resets them to neutral, meaning they land on their feet Q_Q

 

[P.C. Jona]

dark sonics marth is soo weird its like mine but good

 

[DUB]

I'm not extremely familiar with the IC's matchup but I played some friendlies yesterday and when I was being chaingrabbed by the d-throw + dair I could just do 3 hits of the DB and it would get me out everytime.

 

[skrach8]

i swear by a well spaced forward b mix up with the third hit being angled down. It has pretty good stun, and people get baited into a whiphed grab if properly spaced.

the move also shield pokes the head of some characters when they are shielding and u thrown in some of the up variations. over all the move is still pretty decent.... but smart and familiar players will DI it correctly, crouch cancel or do a quick aerial to trade.

The forward b is a great move in the air against certain charcters cuz it can actually keep the combo going due to crappy DI and confusion... mostly floaties.

And my personal favorite use of the move is nair to forward b spike. works on fast fallers pretty well, but extremely situational. BY FAR THE SEXIEST WAYS TO KILL WITH MARTH.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

side B doesn't force get ups <_<. It resets them to neutral, meaning they land on their feet Q_Q

doesnt it force getups on fox? or is that roy?
the only thing roy has better than marth is DED. which can be CCC/SGed, lol.

 

[soma ghost]

Dose anyone else use marths side B to spike? Tilt down on the third hit and it spikes. Use that third hit when edge guarding and it's a super fast spike.