Meta Shulk Match-Ups: Directory/General Discussion – Engage the Enemy

[Berserker.]

+1

Got to go against one a bunch of times so I have an idea on how this works (spoiler alert: Smash art is actually really useful for once)

 

[spiderfreak1011]

+1. I haven't played this MU at all against a Pikachu main who knows how to use Pikachu to the extent of his potential, so i definitely would like learning the MU should i ever run into it.

 

[Berserker.]

EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS MESSAGE

This message will pertain to match up scores because I bumped into an interesting discussion about it

I'll be much more lenient with match up scores from now on because that isn't the main priority of match up discussions. The main priority of match up discussions will ALWAYS be on how to deal with the said character. Not everyone needs to put a score if they want. The meta game is still at its early stages so a lot of things can change. Because of this, I'll make it a point to put a certain range for MU scores to appeal to both sides in a discussion (As long as the range isn't THAT huge)

ALSO, MU scores are not based on votes. It may have seemed that way but in actuality, it's based purely on reasoning or if that reasoning was countered, so avoid posting, "I vote for X." There's no tally whatsoever. That's not how match ups work. You all need to reach one decision OR I'll just use both scores for as long as they're not that far apart (i.e: +1 to +0)

Lastly, keep customs out of the discussion. We'll include customs in round 2 for the MU discussion

So yeah, less numbers. More discussion. Actually, we can do away with the numbers but eeeh. I think we've been fine and civil with all our discussions BUT if you guys want to stop giving MU scores then I'm content with that

I'll also be extremely strict with disruptive posting in the MU thread. I'd describe this as something like, "This is a -3 for Shulk since X doesn't lose to bad characters," or "This is a +3 for Shulk since Shulk doesn't lose to bad characters" or some posts that state a score without any sort of explanation. Posts like those (or kind of like that) will be infracted

Good day

 

[Linkmario00]

I vote +1 for, too. Combo characters like him are always a problem for Shulk.

 

[Berserker.]

Dr. Mario and Dedede are still up so I'm not going to instantly open up the Pikachu thread. It's been only like... 1 day or less since the discussion began

Plz understand

 

[Berserker.]

http://smashboards.com/threads/summon-bolt-pikachu-a-match-up-thread.396112

Ty @ erico9001

I'll update the OP for you

 

[erico9001]

http://smashboards.com/threads/summon-bolt-pikachu-a-match-up-thread.396112

Ty @ erico9001

I'll update the OP for you

o. hi there!

 

[erico9001]

I'm voting for Villager. ×(n+1)

 

[spiderfreak1011]

You know, i was reminded of something i've wanted to ask from the beginning. How come we don't go by ratios like 50:50 in how hard a match up is for Shulk like almost every other board that does MU discussions utilizes?

 

[Berserker.]

You know, i was reminded of something i've wanted to ask from the beginning. How come we don't go by ratios like 50:50 in how hard a match up is for Shulk like almost every other board that does MU discussions utilizes?

This system is a lot simpler

 

[Douchuumen]

Hey monado boys!

I want to help out a friend with some training. He uses Shulk and needs advice for the matchups against Falcon, Sheik, Ness and Falco. Any tips?

 

[TheHopefulHero]

Hey monado boys!

I want to help out a friend with some training. He uses Shulk and needs advice for the matchups against Falcon, Sheik, Ness and Falco. Any tips?

We have a reference for Falcon and Sheik, with Ness coming soon, so you can use those for a starting point. But for a quick tip, be patient with these guys. All 3 of them are good at closing in on Shulk, and they out pace him in attack speed. Remember that Shulk can change his gameplan thanks to his Monado Arts, so try and keep that in mind as you look for your opening. Your chance will come, just stay alert and keep an eye on those 3 when they come in.

 

[Berserker.]

Hey monado boys!

I want to help out a friend with some training. He uses Shulk and needs advice for the matchups against Falcon, Sheik, Ness and Falco. Any tips?

I don't know anything about the Falco match up but I do know things about the Ness match up. I'd use speed or buster in this match up. Jump art if you manage to get him off stage. Space your attacks against Ness, and maximize your range. This is basically what you're going to do for the whole match. Just use your range against Ness. Avoid challenging PKT2 BUT if he's using it while he's standing on ground, you can opt for a counter for an easy KO. Once you're at kill percentage, I'd retreat to shield or jump. Jump mostly because that's when Ness starts to fish for the b-throw. With jump, you can move around the stage easily but be wary of his u-air (which KO's also). As for shield, you won't get killed by Ness' b-throw for as long as you have it activated.

But yeah, tldr: use your range against Ness.

We have a reference for Falcon and Sheik, with Ness coming soon, so you can use those for a starting point. But for a quick tip, be patient with these guys. All 3 of them are good at closing in on Shulk, and they out pace him in attack speed. Remember that Shulk can change his gameplan thanks to his Monado Arts, so try and keep that in mind as you look for your opening. Your chance will come, just stay alert and keep an eye on those 3 when they come in.

Actually, Villager is next

The only one in that list that actually has an easy time breaking into Shulk's zone is Sheik. The other 3 (Falcon, Falco, and Ness) can but they don't have it as easy as Sheik does

Then again, the campy Sheiks are the difficult ones. Not the aggressive ones.

 

[TheHopefulHero]

I don't know anything about the Falco match up but I do know things about the Ness match up. I'd use speed or buster in this match up. Jump art if you manage to get him off stage. Space your attacks against Ness, and maximize your range. This is basically what you're going to do for the whole match. Just use your range against Ness. Avoid challenging PKT2 BUT if he's using it while he's standing on ground, you can opt for a counter for an easy KO. Once you're at kill percentage, I'd retreat to shield or jump. Jump mostly because that's when Ness starts to fish for the b-throw. With jump, you can move around the stage easily but be wary of his u-air (which KO's also). As for shield, you won't get killed by Ness' b-throw for as long as you have it activated.

But yeah, tldr: use your range against Ness.

This, and I'd like to add that you can Vision PK Thunder 2 off-stage for a stock if you're willing to risk it. It's a little tight to work on, but the pay-off is worth it if you can manage it.

Oh, and great. I've got a lot to say on the Villager match-up. Just out of curiosity, how do you vote with the images?

 

[Linkmario00]

+1 fornext. I found interisting discover when we have to end to use Buster and go to Smash to not increase his Aura a lot and kill him faster.

 

[Berserker.]

OP has been updated with the new vote/s

 

[spiderfreak1011]

+1 for me too.

 

[Berserker.]

+1 for me too.

I already put your vote in

 

[TheHopefulHero]

+1 Villager for me. I'm interested to hear what we have to say for the next match up.

 

[Berserker.]

http://smashboards.com/threads/villager-match-up-discussion.396903/

New MU discussion thread is up.

The score for Shulk and Pika is +0

 

[Berserker.]

Double post because reasons

Because of the new patch, we may HAVE to re-discuss everything as soon as the patch releases. I also discourage that we quickly discuss Mewtwo right off the bat. I recommend discussing him a month after his release. THANKS.

Basically, Mewtwo votes will not be accepted until then.

 

[Linkmario00]

Double post because reasons

Because of the new patch, we may HAVE to re-discuss everything as soon as the patch releases. I also discourage that we quickly discuss Mewtwo right off the bat. I recommend discussing him a month after his release. THANKS.

Basically, Mewtwo votes will not be accepted until then.

With "a month" do you mean since about 15 May or 28 may?
I imagine there will be the same rule for Lucas (to wait a month)

 

[Berserker.]

With "a month" do you mean since about 15 May or 28 may?
I imagine there will be the same rule for Lucas (to wait a month)

Yes. It applies for Lucas too

 

[erico9001]

Double post because reasons

Because of the new patch, we may HAVE to re-discuss everything as soon as the patch releases. I also discourage that we quickly discuss Mewtwo right off the bat. I recommend discussing him a month after his release. THANKS.

Basically, Mewtwo votes will not be accepted until then.

I agree with no dedicated thread for him, but there will be a lot of questions about the MU. People can just post those here in this thread.

 

[Berserker.]

I agree with no dedicated thread for him, but there will be a lot of questions about the MU. People can just post those here in this thread.

They can post questions about it here if they want, so yes.

 

[Piford]

I'll give +1

 

[Berserker.]

Open question:

Do you guys want to proceed to the Ness and Lucario discussion (it's up next in our MU queue), OR wait for the patch? The patch is 10 days from now. Actually, we might have to go through some re-discussions. We're probably starting from DIDDY again.

So, thoughts?

 

[Artryuu]

Open question:

Do you guys want to proceed to the Ness and Lucario discussion (it's up next in our MU queue), OR wait for the patch? The patch is 10 days from now. Actually, we might have to go through some re-discussions. We're probably starting from DIDDY again.

So, thoughts?

Wait for the patch. Much more safe because we might probably bring a helpful trick/tip that won't work in 10 days. So let's wait .

 

[Piford]

Open question:

Do you guys want to proceed to the Ness and Lucario discussion (it's up next in our MU queue), OR wait for the patch? The patch is 10 days from now. Actually, we might have to go through some re-discussions. We're probably starting from DIDDY again.

So, thoughts?

Wait for the patch. I'd recommend redoing Yoshi, as it seems he didn't really get a good discussion.

 

[Deleted member]

Open question:

Do you guys want to proceed to the Ness and Lucario discussion (it's up next in our MU queue), OR wait for the patch? The patch is 10 days from now. Actually, we might have to go through some re-discussions. We're probably starting from DIDDY again.

So, thoughts?

Wait for the patch. Some characters could drastically change after the patch, if Greninja is any sort of indication.

 

[Berserker.]

You know what, I'm pretty sure this is going to be unanimous so we're waiting it out

Now let's play Xenoblade again, and wait

 

[erico9001]

"Tweaked Character Balancing"

The general MU strategies should remain the same even if there are tweaks. We could just discuss the MU's then adjust if needed.

 

[Berserker.]

"Tweaked Character Balancing"

The general MU strategies should remain the same even if there are tweaks. We could just discuss the MU's then adjust if needed.

To play it safe, just postpone discussions until the patch is released.

 

[Linkmario00]

Open question:

Do you guys want to proceed to the Ness and Lucario discussion (it's up next in our MU queue), OR wait for the patch? The patch is 10 days from now. Actually, we might have to go through some re-discussions. We're probably starting from DIDDY again.

So, thoughts?

I say we should wait for the patch to come out, but since I think most of the roster won't change too much, it's worth to spend 1-2 days at max for each character (except for big changes like Diddy)

 

[erico9001]

@ FOcast posted in the diddy kong thread about Speed mode's great jump cancelled item toss slide distance, which allows Shulk to true combo into up-smash with his banana. What other characters would this be useful against? I'm not at home to test anything right now, but I'm thinking Mega Man.

 

[FOcast]

By the way, Foxtrot -> F-Smash also combos after the JCIT I think (testing with humans required), and is even easier to hit-confirm.

JCIT should also be useful for ROB, though the tech is overall less useful against zoning characters than it is against rushdown. If you JCIT forward, ROB can probably shield and DSmash to punish. JCIT back would be good for escaping close quarters, but when you're in speed mode, dash away tends to be good enough for that.

Potentially useful for Wario, with his bike parts? Villager has the tree twig, but probably the same usage problems as ROB.

 

[Piford]

By the way, Foxtrot -> F-Smash also combos after the JCIT I think (testing with humans required), and is even easier to hit-confirm.

JCIT should also be useful for ROB, though the tech is overall less useful against zoning characters than it is against rushdown. If you JCIT forward, ROB can probably shield and DSmash to punish. JCIT back would be good for escaping close quarters, but when you're in speed mode, dash away tends to be good enough for that.

Potentially useful for Wario, with his bike parts? Villager has the tree twig, but probably the same usage problems as ROB.

Wario no longer has bike parts.

 

[Watchful_Eye]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-HSSiPXY2s

Hi, would you mind to watch the first match and give me some advice on the Luigi Matchup? Maybe it is not the perfect video because it is online and I really ****ed up my spacing in the third stock, but I cannot record matches by myself. Of course, general hints are also much appreciated.

 

[Sandfall]

+1 to for whenever these matchup discussions happen again. I can't for the life of me figure out this matchup. I usually have no problem dealing with him using DK, my secondary (or any other character, really). Whenever I play as Shulk though, I tend to get bodied -_-

 

[Gidy]

+1 Lucario

Also, I said something in the Diddy MU thread