Meta Shulk Match-Ups: Directory/General Discussion – Engage the Enemy

[erico9001]

A thread on Falcon is pretty needed. He's one of the most asked about match-ups.
+1

op updated again

 

[spiderfreak1011]

I'll vote :4CaptainFalcon: +1 aswell. I know how to deal with this MU pretty well, so i can give input on this MU pretty well and discuss it.

 

[Berserker.]

Booting up the Falcon discussion

Done (http://smashboards.com/threads/captain-falcon-match-up-thread-show-me-yo-feels.394178/)

 

[Gidy]

+1 For Mario next. I don't feel comfortable with the Mario dittos and Shulk being my secondary makes me curious about the matchup.

 

[Berserker.]

+1 For Mario next. I don't feel comfortable with the Mario dittos and Shulk being my secondary makes me curious about the matchup.

I want to make the board's MU discussion as active as possible so.......

Booting up the Mario MU thread

http://smashboards.com/threads/mario-match-up-thread-jumping-solves-everything.394271/

 

[erico9001]

I want to make the board's MU discussion as active as possible so.......

Booting up the Mario MU thread

http://smashboards.com/threads/mario-match-up-thread-jumping-solves-everything.394271/

What? The Captain Falcon thread only just opened up today. You're totally disregarding the system. If you think anyone should be able to just open up a new match-up thread whenever they want, that's something that can be discussed here. If you think it should be more dependent on the amount of posts that had been reached in the previous MU thread, that can also be discussed here. However, at this time, we have this whole voting thing going on.

 

[Berserker.]

What? The Captain Falcon thread only just opened up today. You're totally disregarding the system. If you think anyone should be able to just open up a new match-up thread whenever they want, that's something that can be discussed here. If you think it should be more dependent on the amount of posts that had been reached in the previous MU thread, that can also be discussed here. However, at this time, we have this whole voting thing going on.

Mario had only 2 votes, but I want to make the match up discussion as active as possible. My bad for the sudden new match up thread, but can we let this one slip for now? c:

If you're not comfortable with it, I'll avoid doing this again next time

 

[erico9001]

Mario had only 2 votes, but I want to make the match up discussion as active as possible. My bad for the sudden new match up thread, but can we let this one slip for now? c:

If you're not comfortable with it, I'll avoid doing this again next time

I just think there should be discussion on whether we should do that or not. Is having two new MU discussions going on at once a better way to go? Or is it that there are just certain situations where it is better to quickly move to the next MU thread... situations that can be defined.

 

[Berserker.]

I just think there should be discussion on whether we should do that or not. Is having two new MU discussions going on at once a better way to go? Or is it that there are just certain situations where it is better to quickly move to the next MU thread... situations that can be defined.

I think having two discussions is great. In case if you don't know anything about that one match up, you can post input on the other match up discussion which you may know about

It makes the MU discussion a lot more active

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

Can we do an MU on Duck Hunt at some point? DH's ability to keep Shulk away is so strong. And when I do manage to get in close to DH, they'll just grab me. They always just patiently throw out projectile after projectile, waiting for me to get close so they can throw me off the stage and keep me off or set me up for a combo. Plus, their tilts are pretty fast too so if I am too close and a grab won't work, they'll just use a tilt to get me away from them and start up the projectile game again. What's a Shulk supposed to do!?

 

[Berserker.]

Don't get too close to DHD. You wanna close in, yes, but make sure you stop at mid-range (where Shulk truly shines)

 

[Deleted member]

No match-up discussions?
No votes according to the OP?
Really?
+1

 

[Berserker.]

I wanna talk about +1 because I hate going against him. Like, I REALLY hate going against Fox (Worst MU imo). I might need help here though

Good thing @DavemanCozy mains Fox

 

[Gidy]

+1 Luigi. I did great against a Luigi at a recent tournament and I think a discussion would be beneficial for what exactly to do against him.

The reason I don't vote for Fox is because I'd rather go Mario against Fox.

 

[Berserker.]

Updated the OP with the new votes

 

[Gidy]

Updated the OP with the new votes

When are you closing the current MU discussions? I think everything is said and done.

 

[Berserker.]

When are you closing the current MU discussions? I think everything is said and done.

I'm handling it at the moment

Doooone. Check the OP

 

[erico9001]

I approve of the new threads. These guys are tough from what I understand.

By the way, I think the Shulk boards must have the best MU discussion system.

Speaking of that system, I think votes should carry through to the next thread vote. Like, Ness didn't make it this time, but his vote can still count for the next MU. Just seems better that way... having a hard time explaining why, though.

 

[Berserker.]

I approve of the new threads. These guys are tough from what I understand.

By the way, I think the Shulk boards must have the best MU discussion system.

Speaking of that system, I think votes should carry through to the next thread vote. Like, Ness didn't make it this time, but his vote can still count for the next MU. Just seems better that way... having a hard time explaining why, though.

Agreed with the suggestions. Also, our system works because our boards are very active

 

[spiderfreak1011]

I'm gonna go with +1. Not enough people give the character credit due to how "playing badly" rewards him. I've been hanging out in the Lucario Skype Group caht for awhile, and have fought the good ones there (most notable ones being @AotA~ , @MythTrainerInfinity , and @Kami~ ), who know how to B-reverse and punish you well with pivoted Force Palms and such. I have to say, honestly, i did not think i'd find this match up hard compared to some of the other characters in the roster, but it actually feels genuinely difficult. I think it's definitely worth discussing.[/USER]

 

[relaxedexcorcist]

I'd like to give a +1. I feel like Shulk is one of the characters Dedede doesn't get demolished by and Dedede having similar range but more power makes him kind of a pain to deal with.

 

[Berserker.]

I'll preemptively prepare my vote:

+1 because we came off from talking about and Dr. Mario is a clone of Mario. It would be practical and easy to conclude the Dr. Mario MU discussion since he's a clone character

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Hello Shulk Boards!
The Bowser Jr. boards finally have a proper matchup tthread running, and we're starting it with discussion vs Shulk!
http://smashboards.com/threads/bows...p-discussion-discussing-shulk-matchup.394727/
If any of you have time to stop by and weigh in, it would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

Lel you beat me to it Duck Smash, inb4 you take over my mod powers. Thanks for helping be on top of things though, it's appreciated.

 

[Deleted member]

I vote for . I dunno why, but I have a hard time against Peach.
Hell, I won a battle against her with Shulk by timing out and winning by one stock, and prior to that match I lost to her. That's not good.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Alright, how about Doc? It does sound like a good idea since Mario was just being discussed.

 

[erico9001]

It is seeming as if a lot of the posts in MU threads are leading with a message of either 'this MU is no problem' or 'this MU is really easy.' This kind of message usually is solely rooted in personal experience, a thing which is most likely not representative of the larger population of Shulk mains. In what ways can an opinion about what character has the advantage be biased to personal experience?
-If you are usually feeling like the MU's are in Shulk's favor, you may be facing people who are easier than you.
-If you are usually feeling like the MU is are in the opponents' favors, you may be facing people who are harder than you.

We must also be aware of hidden agenda
-Do you want to eliminate any guilt you have about losing as Shulk against a certain character?
***Solution: get that MU to be viewed as in favor of the other character regardless of the truth. If it's listed as so on the official Shulk MU discussion thread, it must be true!
-Do you care about Shulk's position on tier lists or the public's view about the viability Shulk's viaiblity? He's not viewed as highly as you would like him to be?
***Solution: skew the numbers about who has the advantage in Shulk's match-ups. Skewing in the positive direction also has the advantage of being intimidating to object to. You run the risk of being socially ousted from the discussion with logic like 'you just aren't good enough to know what you're talking about.'

How do we combat these threats to the truth? Actually, it's easy. All we need to do is hold off from the topic of who has the advantage until after the overall discussion is nearing conclusion. Then, using all of the clean information that has been posted into the thread, a much less biased verdict on who has the advantage can be reached. How do we have people hold off? We simply communicate to people to hold off from that in the op of the MU thread. 'Please hold off on discussion of who has the advantage until the discussion can be deemed as coming to a conclusion.' Of course, we need to make sure not to state the MU is coming to a conclusion when it isn't quite there yet. @ Berserker. can you make sure to post something like that in the op for MU threads which you open up from now on? I will do likewise.

 

[Berserker.]

It is seeming as if a lot of the posts in MU threads are leading with a message of either 'this MU is no problem' or 'this MU is really easy.' This kind of message usually is solely rooted in personal experience, a thing which is most likely not representative of the larger population of Shulk mains. In what ways can an opinion about what character has the advantage be biased to personal experience?
-If you are usually feeling like the MU's are inShulk's favor, you may be facing people who are easier than you.
-If you are usually feeling like the MU is are in the opponents' favors, you may be facing people who are harder than you.

We must also be aware of hidden agenda
-Do you want to eliminate any guilt you have about losing as Shulk against a certain character?
***Solution: get that MU to be viewed as in favor of the other character regardless of the truth. If it's listed as so on the official Shulk MU discussion thread, it must be true!
-Do you care about Shulk's position on tier lists or the public's view about the viability Shulk's viaiblity? He's not viewed as highly as you would like him to be?
***Solution: skew the numbers about who has the advantage in Shulk's match-ups. Skewing in the positive direction also has the advantage of being intimidating to object to. You run the risk of being socially ousted from the discussion with logic like 'you just aren't good enough to know what you're talking about.'

That's the nature of match up discussion. We all came from different experiences and perspectives. We share 'em then we apply the technical aspects and theories into the discussion and see which seems to make the most sense.

Things like these always happen. There will be disagreements, but it's not a bad thing at all. There's a reason why I put 2 ratios for some match ups

Match up scores will always update anyway because the meta is still growing (and is at its early stages)

 

[FirestormNeos]

So are there any hard counters for this guy?

I swear I keep running into this ***** every other match at my scene.

 

[Deleted member]

So are there any hard counters for this guy?

I swear I keep running into this ***** every other match at my scene.

Fox, Diddy Kong, Sheik, and a few others I can't think off of the top of my head give Shulk a hard time.

 

[Berserker.]

Fox, Diddy Kong, Sheik, and a few others I can't think off of the top of my head give Shulk a hard time.

Don't forget Sanic, and Robin

 

[Ffamran]

It's Falco time! So, Rock Me, Shulk!

The Falco boards started their ongoing Shulk matchup discussion and are feelin' for some info from the Shulk man himself. So hop aboard the Falco Airlines! Link here: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-thread-17-shulk-air-slashers.395131/.

 

[erico9001]

I'm guessing this would be effective against Shulk because we don't auto snap very easily (unless using AAS). Being sure to do a a very low recovery might help with normal AS. Although, the part with Captain Falcon's up B has me wonder if that would really help.

 

[Artryuu]

Voting for D3 as well :3 +1. Gotta help my Monado boys with that matchup.

 

[Berserker.]

I'll start the threads soon

Done. Check the OP guys

 

[WiiDude83]

for the 3 on the front page.
I think Lucario is +2 for shulk. I feel lucario's floaty nature makes him easy to edge guard. You can get out of most of his combos easily. Lucario has a hard time edge guarding him. and finally, vision is such a cripple to lucario. because lucario's aura grows and well as rage. Vision gets stronger and stronger as well. And with lucario's kill moves now having longer start up, it's easier to see them coming which can lead to lucario dying fast.

Now for peach....hmm this really can go either way. You have peach as a floaty character who can get edge guarded easily by shulk. but peach has a better combo game on him as well as turnips and I think can edge guard him, not as well, but still good. Really depends on the players for this one. +0

Now Ness....hmm...I'd say -1. This again comes down to how the ness plays. You can vision PK fire and can edge guard him nice. But you don't have much of an answer to PK thunder of the missile. and the back throw is a cripple to shulk. It's not impossible for shulk, but the ness has to screw up a lot I feel.

 

[relaxedexcorcist]

I'm gonna give +1 for cause I think he's a problem for Shulk. Short, quick, combo character, good at edgeguarding.

 

[Artryuu]

for the 3 on the front page.
I think Lucario is +2 for shulk. I feel lucario's floaty nature makes him easy to edge guard. You can get out of most of his combos easily. Lucario has a hard time edge guarding him. and finally, vision is such a cripple to lucario. because lucario's aura grows and well as rage. Vision gets stronger and stronger as well. And with lucario's kill moves now having longer start up, it's easier to see them coming which can lead to lucario dying fast.

Now for peach....hmm this really can go either way. You have peach as a floaty character who can get edge guarded easily by shulk. but peach has a better combo game on him as well as turnips and I think can edge guard him, not as well, but still good. Really depends on the players for this one. +0

Now Ness....hmm...I'd say -1. This again comes down to how the ness plays. You can vision PK fire and can edge guard him nice. But you don't have much of an answer to PK thunder of the missile. and the back throw is a cripple to shulk. It's not impossible for shulk, but the ness has to screw up a lot I feel.

^^
The three characters in the OP haven't been discussed yet, they will be discussed based on votes thus the meaning of +1 (how many votes they have atm. Hopefully you'll share your opinion on them when the discussing specific thread for those characters are created .

As for my vote now, I'll go +1. Agreed some attacks are kinda useless and tend to miss here cause of his small size.

 

[Piford]

I'll vote for +1 because I see this being a very relevant matchup.

 

[erico9001]

for the 3 on the front page.
I think Lucario is +2 for shulk. I feel lucario's floaty nature makes him easy to edge guard. You can get out of most of his combos easily. Lucario has a hard time edge guarding him. and finally, vision is such a cripple to lucario. because lucario's aura grows and well as rage. Vision gets stronger and stronger as well. And with lucario's kill moves now having longer start up, it's easier to see them coming which can lead to lucario dying fast.

Now for peach....hmm this really can go either way. You have peach as a floaty character who can get edge guarded easily by shulk. but peach has a better combo game on him as well as turnips and I think can edge guard him, not as well, but still good. Really depends on the players for this one. +0

Now Ness....hmm...I'd say -1. This again comes down to how the ness plays. You can vision PK fire and can edge guard him nice. But you don't have much of an answer to PK thunder of the missile. and the back throw is a cripple to shulk. It's not impossible for shulk, but the ness has to screw up a lot I feel.

^^
The three characters in the OP haven't been discussed yet, they will be discussed based on votes thus the meaning of +1 (how many votes they have atm. Hopefully you'll share your opinion on them when the discussing specific thread for those characters are created .

As for my vote now, I'll go +1. Agreed some attacks are kinda useless and tend to miss here cause of his small size.

I can see how that can confuse. I'll change it to a multiplication symbol. ×1, etc

Also, op updated.