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Meta Shulk Match-Ups: Directory/General Discussion – Engage the Enemy

erico9001

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Welcome to the (finally opened) Shulk match-up general/directory! This thread locates you to threads that discuss specific match-ups. If there is no thread for the match-up you are looking for, you can leave your comment or question about it here. If you have questions about Shulk's moveset in general, you can probably find an answer in the move-set analysis and metagame discussion thread. If you don't find your answer there, you can ask in the Q&A thread.

Current Match-Up (Hover on the character to go to the discussion thread):
:substitute:
The System:

Contributing to Discussion:
¤ You can jump to the thread of the character who is being discussed by clicking the character's face above.
¤ For ~4 days we focus on a specific character in his thread. Following then, the main discussion will move into a new match-up thread, but you are still free to discuss the old match-up.
¤ Reply here to indicate what character you want to discuss next. You can only vote once. (If your vote has already been counted and you wish to change it, create a new post to indicate who your new vote is for.)
¤ If you have something interesting to say about a match-up that does not have a thread dedicated to it, you can post that here.

Finding Information from Discussions:
¤ Every previously discussed match-up has a thread in the "Past discussion directory." Click the face of the character you are looking for to be brought to that thread.
¤ Ask any questions about characters who have been previously discussed in its match-up thread (click the face in "past discussion directory" to be brought here).
¤ It's okay to revive an old match-up thread at any time if you have something to ask or say about it. In fact, this is encouraged.
¤ If the character you are looking for does not have a thread, you may ask a question or comment here. You can also vote for that character to be discussed next.

General rules and guidelines for Match-up Discussions:
¤ When discussing, make sure to avoid as much bias as possible. Be honest about the shortcomings of your character
¤ Know that the real meat of match ups are the discussion and not the score. If you can, at least tell people how to stand a chance or how to beat your character
¤ No flaming please. No spam also. Flaming or spamming will not be tolerated and will be harshly deal with via infraction
¤ Human error isn't something worth for consideration. Match up discussions assume that both characters are playing at their highest/peak potential

Match up scoring system:
+0 (Even)
I shouldn't describe this. It's obvious

-1 or +1 (Slight advantage/disadvantage)
Not a true disadvantage but one of the characters seems to have the upper hand. Still can go either way

-2 or +2 (Solid advantage/disadvantage)
The opposing character has the clear favor but it's not unwinnable for as long as you outplay the opponent and make good reads

-3 or +3 (Strong advantage/disadvantage)
It's strongly recommended to not use this character against that character since one easily can body the other character at neutral. Not impossible but it requires serious amount of good reads
-

Votes for next Match-Up:
:4metaknight: x3 , :4duckhunt: x2, :4ryu: x1, :4miisword: x1
Match-Up table (temporary): Will be replaced by @Jae 's table soon
| :4mario: | :4luigi: | :4peach: | :4bowser: | :4yoshi: | :4bowserjr: | :4wario: | :4dk: | :4diddy: | :4gaw:
:4shulk: | oo | o o | o o | oo | oo | oo | oo | oo | oo | oo
| :4littlemac: | :4link: | :4zelda: | :4sheik: | :4ganondorf: | :4tlink: | :4samus: | :4zss: | :4pit: | :4palutena:
:4shulk: | oo | oo | oo | o o | oo | oo | oo | o o | o o | o o
| :4marth: | :4myfriends: | :4robinm: | :4duckhunt: | :4kirby: | :4dedede: | :4metaknight: | :4fox: | :4falco: | :4pikachu:
:4shulk: | oo | o o | oo | oo | oo | o o | oo | oo | oo | oo
| :4charizard: | :4lucario: | :4jigglypuff: | :4greninja: | :4rob: | :4ness: | :4falcon: | :4villager: | :4olimar: | :4wiifit:
:4shulk: | oo | oo | oo | oo | oo | oo | o o | o o | o o | oo
| :4shulk: | :4drmario: | :4darkpit: | :4lucina: | :4pacman: | :4megaman: | :4sonic: | :4miibrawl: | :4miisword: | :4miigun:
:4shulk: |
| oo | o o | oo | oo | oo | o o | oo | oo | oo
| :4mewtwo: | :4feroy: | :4ryu: | :4lucas:
:4shulk: | oo | oo | oo | oo
o (+3) - Strong advantage
o (+2) - Solid advantage
o (+1) - Slight advantage
o (+0) - Even
o (-1) - Slight disadvantage
o (-2) - Solid disadvantage
o (-3) - Strong disadvantage​

Past discussions directory:
:4diddy: -1
:4shulk: +0
:4robinf: -1
:4megaman: +0
:4rob: +0
:4greninja: +0
:4yoshi: +0

:4sonic: -1 / -2
:4sheik: -1 / -2
:4kirby: +2
:4link: +2

:rosalina: +0
:4falcon:
+1 / +0
:4mario: +0
:4luigi: +1 / +0
:4fox:
-2
:4drmario:
+2
:4dedede: +1 / +0
:4pikachu: +0
:4villager::4villagerf:
+1 / +0
:4ness: +0
:4lucario: +0
:4zelda:
+2
:4myfriends:
+1 / +0
:4palutena: +1 / +2
:4zss: +0 / -1
:4peach: +1 / +0
:4olimar: +1 / +0
:4pit::4darkpit:
+1 / +0
 
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Hokori

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For the sake of cleanliness, hold all MU related discussion in this thread for the time being. As a board, we'll come up with a new system soon.
 
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erico9001

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Ok, I updated the op so please read it everyone.
-
I'm voting we discuss Shulk dittos after Diddy since there seems to be interest, and I've personally been itching to get some of my thoughts out about that MU.
:4shulk:+1
 

TheHopefulHero

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Noted. And I second the Shulk dittos. I want to be able to face myself without letting nerves get the best of me.
 

spiderfreak1011

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Thirded/shot. Shulk dittos has my vote aswell. :4shulk:

Noted. I remember the nightmares this monkey brought at tournaments.
You're right on the fact that Shulk needs to be precise with aerials / attacks or he'll be eaten up (namely if he whiffs, the attack is blocked, his start-up for attacks, & attack-recovery.) . I'm thinking that maybe we should stay in Speed in order to avoid getting grabbed, while giving us a chance to grab Diddy, damage reduction or not. All we need is just a way approach comfortably, while still avoiding grab-range & that evil banana.

N-Air & F-Air helps, but people are getting smart about these tactics, and blocking them by instinct. We just need a way to shift into the offense...
Speed sounds like a good idea, and maybe throwing in a little Jump usage to play a few mindgames and try to draw them in closer to you perhaps?

Also, could Smash be useful? I mean, we could use it at early percents to have our own knockback boosted so it won't be as easy to be comboed after a grab? Although, i know this might not that good of an idea, since damage output, but who knows, maybe it could help?
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I missed the diddy discussion....it's not like I had much to add. Im just curious as to what stages people would suggest taking diddy to. Which stages to avoid ans what to ban.

I know Zero tweets says diddy's best stages are halberd and fd.
 
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erico9001

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Late update - I got busy with finals and all that. I have some quick words about Olimar:
Monado Buster!
The Pikmin die much more easily while using Monado Buster. Nair is great at getting at Pikmin that are on you.
Olimar has good reach with his grab, so you'll want to avoid Nairing his shield and landing in front of him. You can also counter Pikmin attacks when they are on you if you want to attack him through his shield. I haven't faced an incredibly challenging Olimar yet though.

Does anyone else have anything to say about Olimar? Otherwise, I think we should do Rosalina next.
 

Zephil

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I saw a thread in the Megaman forums about their MU against Shulk, why don't we tak this chance to do quickly the Megaman MU?
 

Masonomace

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It seems we all have different characters to discuss next. . .personally this is my subjective choice & am not considering if anyone struggles against her either, but how about Sheik?
+1:4sheik:

To clarify, I'm fine with discussing :rosalina::4pikachu: & especially :4megaman: since I have some MU knowledge kudos to playing my friend's Mega Man.
 
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spiderfreak1011

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Hmmm, alot of these are good choices. Although, i have 2 match ups that i'd like to discuss in the future aswell, these being :4sonic: and :4yoshi: . Out of anyone i've faced online these 2 seem to give my SHulk the most challenge.

But...I figure we could do Megaman first, because why not, get him out of the way.

+1 :4megaman:
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Given the sheer amount of work put in, I hope you guys will not be cross with me making a new thread for a different match-up given how it came up on other sections of SWF and I need to put it where people can see it.
 
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Given the sheer amount of work put in, I hope you guys will not be cross with me making a new thread for a different match-up given how it came up on other sections of SWF and I need to put it where people can see it.
Ah don't worry about it. If you really need to then go ahead
 
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I plan on just linking the Robin discussion to that thread you made

Also, this is only here because the other moderator (Hokori) has "plans" for the match up thread. This is all only temporary but I'll make sure that the Robin match up thread you made will stay here

Anyway, mod power activate

Edit: Done
 
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erico9001

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Given the sheer amount of work put in, I hope you guys will not be cross with me making a new thread for a different match-up given how it came up on other sections of SWF and I need to put it where people can see it.
Holy crap, that's a lot of info! Very nice.
I plan on just linking the Robin discussion to that thread you made

Also, this is only here because the other moderator (Hokori) has "plans" for the match up thread. This is all only temporary but I'll make sure that the Robin match up thread you made will stay here

Anyway, mod power activate

Edit: Done
Oh! Thanks, I was about to do that then I read that.

I've had some thoughts about our system for these discussions myself. I've looked into other characters and all I've seen is threads like this one. We could do a thread for each character, but that seems a little excessive doesn't it? There are a lot of characters in this game, and the idea behind having a thread like this is to centralize discussion. Unfortunately, to keep the discussion ordered this has to focus on a single character at a time or else useful posts are lost as the thread expands in size. Honestly, I don't like this restriction. As you probably saw on the previous page, I posted something I thought would be useful to say about Olimar, but that probably won't be seen by somebody who is looking for specific advice on Olimar. The options for our matchup discussion seems kind of like 'Spam up the forums' or 'Restrict what people talk about.' The former option sounds a little better than the other to me, but I would still prefer if there was something we could do outside of that. What options are there?

Tbh, I wish we could create a sub-sub-forum for the purpose of this discussion; I have no idea if that is possible. If not, the closest thing to it would be a Group, which we would need to direct people to via changing this thread's title and having a link in here to it. Idk what we would do with this thread though. Maybe this thread would work kind of like a matchup Q&A thread then.

I'm really curious about what thoughts @ Hokori Hokori or anyone else has on changing the matchup discussion system.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Forget a group. Just use these and then get our mods to splinter the thread into other threads every time we move on. Let others ask questions in completed threads, but have us, the contributors, move forward.
 
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The old layout of the Match up thread also used separate threads for each character (But the mod is inactive atm). I'll try contacting Hokori about this but he's pretty inactive. If he doesn't respond, I'll try implementing this
 

erico9001

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Forget a group. Just use these and then get our mods to splinter the thread into other threads every time we move on. Let others ask questions in completed threads, but have us, the contributors, move forward.
Wow, mods can splinter threads here? They have so many cool powers in these forums! That sounds good, and wouldn't spam the forums up because it's not like a bunch of threads being created at once.
 
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Wow, mods can splinter threads here? They have so many cool powers in these forums! That sounds good, and wouldn't spam the forums up because it's not like a bunch of threads being created at once.
Well, I guess Hokori won't mind

Edit: Done. Enjoy the new layout
 
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Hokori

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I have no problems with the new system (I like it). I believe what I mentioned earlier was misunderstood a bit...I didn't have "plans" set in stone for a new MU system, but I definitely would've liked something new, since little was happening with what we had in the past, so this is cool. I gave erico responsibility over the thread due to his interest in MU discussion and I'd like to make everyone feel as involved as possible. While it's true that I'm pretty inactive at the moment, berserker is also a mod here, so feel free to carry things along as you see fit.
 
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I have no problems with the new system (I like it). I believe what I mentioned earlier was misunderstood a bit...I didn't have "plans" set in stone for a new MU system, but I definitely would've liked something new, since little was happening with what we had in the past, so this is cool
My bad for the misunderstanding, and thanks for notifying us
 

FlareHabanero

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If we can vote on the next match up, then I vote for Greninja.

I know my way around the frog, so it's a topic I'm well versed in.
 

spiderfreak1011

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If we can vote on the next match up, then I vote for Greninja.

I know my way around the frog, so it's a topic I'm well versed in.
Same here, fought alot of Evolved FROakies on my end too, i can offer deets on fighting him too.

:4greninja: +1
 

Masonomace

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I feel Greninja is more manageable to handle on the 3DS, due to the vary dark & shaded hole on the ground that moves accordingly to where Greninja reappears to rather than the WiiU Greninja who's shadow is harder to see on the ground. This is a tiny difference but it makes all the difference for me.

:4greninja:+1
 

spiderfreak1011

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I feel Greninja is more manageable to handle on the 3DS, due to the vary dark & shaded hole on the ground that moves accordingly to where Greninja reappears to rather than the WiiU Greninja who's shadow is harder to see on the ground. This is a tiny difference but it makes all the difference for me.

:4greninja:+1
It's easy enough to see coming unless they use it right next to you

Since otherwise, if you're a decent distance away,t hey'll start the attack up before hand and start walking rather than dashing, which is a giveaway. THey also will tend to use it to hit you if you're edgeguarding, and even if you shield, they'll just Up special back on the ledge unless you spike/stage spike them.
 

Masonomace

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It's easy enough to see coming unless they use it right next to you

Since otherwise, if you're a decent distance away,t hey'll start the attack up before hand and start walking rather than dashing, which is a giveaway. THey also will tend to use it to hit you if you're edgeguarding, and even if you shield, they'll just Up special back on the ledge unless you spike/stage spike them.
Interesting. I've even seen Greninjas not move at all & they instantly reappear beside me. I was not aware that Greninja could not run while he's using Shadow Sneak, which is educational & now I realize how predictable it looks, as you've mentioned.

The only times I struggle with the Shadow Sneak is when the floor is dark enough to help conceal the Shadow Sneak. Because of that I won't know the difference between two Greninjas who only stand idle or walk toward me, but thanks for the help to the max.:shades:
 
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Zephil

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Sorry for the lack of feedback for the Megaman MU (even though I was the one who asked for it...) ... its been a very busy week.

Anyways I agree to continue with Greninja

:4greninja:+1
 

spiderfreak1011

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Interesting. I've even seen Greninjas not move at all & they instantly reappear beside me. I was not aware that Greninja could not run while he's using Shadow Sneak, which is educational & now I realize how predictable it looks, as you've mentioned.

The only times I struggle with the Shadow Sneak is when the floor is dark enough to help conceal the Shadow Sneak. Because of that I won't know the difference between two Greninjas who only stand idle or walk toward me, but thanks for the help to the max.:shades:
No problem. :D But yeah, its hard to see on darker stages though, so can't help there, but it is a decent approaching option, so try to watch out and expect that. Glad i could help.
 

spiderfreak1011

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Well we got 5 votes for Greninja, the thread title has been changed, so i guess we can start discussion. I would start it but...I'm a bit confused on the re-done MU Thread design that was discussed earlier, so i'm not sure if i should just talking about tips/strategies on combatting him first or not.
 

erico9001

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I'm currently updating the op for the new system. This thread is just going to be for voting for the next match-up and hosting posts/questions/miniature discussions about character match-ups which do not have their own threads. Greninja's match-up should be discussed in this new thread here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/greninja-match-up-thread.384323/
 
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spiderfreak1011

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I'm currently updating the op for the new system. This thread is just going to be for voting for the next match-up and hosting posts/questions/miniature discussions about character match-ups which do not have their own threads. Greninja's match-up should be discussed in this new thread here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/greninja-match-up-thread.384323/
So...We're basically just making seperate threads in the Shulk section for each matchup? ...Ok then.
 

spiderfreak1011

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Well anyway, we've talked about Greninja for awhile, so i think now we could move on to someone else now. I vote that we deal with whats probably my most hated character to fight in this game period. :4rob: +1

Literally every fight i have against one feels like the bane of my existence, and takes all my skill to win. Even mediocre ones are annoying. I NEED TO KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH HIM. XD
 

TheHopefulHero

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Well anyway, we've talked about Greninja for awhile, so i think now we could move on to someone else now. I vote that we deal with whats probably my most hated character to fight in this game period. :4rob: +1

Literally every fight i have against one feels like the bane of my existence, and takes all my skill to win. Even mediocre ones are annoying. I NEED TO KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH HIM. XD
I agree with spider. Rob is really interesting match-up, and I would like to talk about him as well.
 
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erico9001

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So Greninja got buffed with Pkmn ORAS and now he's being suspected. Think this will have implications for the Greninja match-up?
:troll:
 
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