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1 seires? Oh come on look at the other games and new games he is perfect in more than 100 games, super smash seires is about smashing everything around you, he is not being treated like a trash because this game has a lot of crazy stuff and ment to be like this. Mario has also been treated like a trash few times but his appearence in more than 200 times in a perfect way shows that nintendo actually doesnt want to treat Mario like a trash.
We're talking about the context of Smash Bros. This being a Smash Bros. website, that's the primary focus of the Toad support group on this forum.
I'd love everything Mario for Smash except for Geno.Wait, so would guys even be upset if daisy got in before him? By the look of it, you guys seem like you don't want him that much. O.o but anyway, I came here to say that I'm planning on making 1st party Smash Ballot Comic on miiverse in the smash community and I planned on Toad being one of the major supporting characters
I feel like Toad deserves to be in smash cause he's always forced to being playable but not playable in smash? I feel like that's unfair :/
Mario hotel and Mario head
Mario Hotel doesn't count, man c'mon. It's like counting the CD-I Zelda's as official Zelda games.
But Daisy's already in the game, as a Peach alt...
jk but I would be a bit ticked off that Daisy got in first. Also where did you get the idea that we don't want him a whole lot, because this thread isn't one of the threads that's bursting with activity./quote]
Well it was @BluePikmin11 that said he wouldnt be surprised if he only got a costume and @YoshiandToad agreed with him and it gave me the idea that it wouldn't effect you if wasn't in. I was expecting more of a "but I really don't want that to happen or else" followed by that but there wasnt. xD and it was also you that didn't seem eager to make up a moveset for him and wanted to make one for another character 1st. So I thought you guys may lost your support for him. Fortunately I see that you guys havent. I wish every thread was as on and popping as the k roll thread. I didn't even know this one existed.
it's shame that not everyone knows about smash boards cause every thread would have alot more support if it was so. :l (i considered myself a smash pro since brawl but never came here cause I thought it was a place full of cheats and hacks xD)
yeah its a real worry that sakurai hates toad
He is a counter though...
Ew, she looks like some weird Egghead/Toad mix. Egghead is an Ant Man villain btw.How would react if Nintendo did this Toadette.
HAHAHAHA!How would react if Nintendo did this Toadette.
Sakurai probably would just make Toad a Mii Brawler costume to shut up the Toad fans.
itd never shut us up though
Well, Captain Toad is his own distinct character.
Hayashida said:
He's already a hat.
He's already a counter
Only if you count Super Mushroom as a Toad hat. Maybe after he takes damage but it's a reaaaaaaal stretch.
This is why Toad fans and Captain Toad fans shouldn't be taking sides over which Toad is more deserving to be in Smash...
Except that just wouldn't work. Captain Toad's moves and regular Toad's moves would be entirely different. There's just no good way to combine the two; it's like trying to make Mario and Luigi into one character, or Sonic and Shadow. Not to mention that regular Toads have never been shown to use Captain Toad's tools, such as the headlamp, backpack, Super Gems, et cetera.
Logic like this led to the Dark Pit situation. Besides, would you really object if they fused the two concepts?
I know I would.
Pit and Dark Pit are, canonically, clones of one another. Toad and Captain Toad are members of a species. There's a difference. Pit and Dark Pit, canonically, have identical abilities. Toad and Captain Toad have different abilities, tools, and experiences. There's a difference.
That's my point. Yes, theoretically, they could simply give Toad some sort of move set based on using power-ups or what have you, but those power-ups are not unique to Toad in the source material. If Toad got a move set like that, I'd simply start wondering why Mario doesn't have it, since power-ups are what defines Mario platformers and makes them unique.
Did you wonder why Mario doesn't throw vegetables or shoot Star Bits in Smash when Peach and Rosalina got in Smash? Because, you know, Mario did those moves in Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario Galaxy...
So you are just moving goal posts around to suit your arguments?
I'm not seeing your point here.
Or, we could get the actual character -- as opposed to a species -- with superior moveset potential and an interesting playstyle concept instead.
So... according to your logic above... and if we applied this logic to Rosalina in Smash, we didn't get a Rosalina moveset, we got a Super Mario Galaxy (the games, not the character) moveset that Rosalina just so happened to appear in... because Rosalina didn't do any of these in Super Mario Galaxy games, but Mario and Luigi did them so those stuff aren't unique to Rosalina.
Mario isn't a cosmic queen. Mario doesn't summon in and battle using Lumas. Mario doesn't create Launch Stars. Mario doesn't use twirly wand magic or anything. Mario does use Star Bits and the cursor thing, sure, but A) Rosalina is more associated with Star Bits and such -- as they're, y'know, stars, which Rosalina is sort of in control of -- and B) the cursor is used by the co-star Luma in Galaxy 2, and has more of a suction effect than its use in the Galaxy games, resembling Rosalina's telekinesis.
I never said Mario was a cosmic queen... and yes, you are right, Mario doesn't summon in and battle using Lumas... but neither did Rosalina. She never did that in Super Mario Galaxy games or in Super Mario 3D World.
Of course, he doesn't create them. Launch Stars are made of Lumas. Launch Stars ARE Lumas.
Of course not... but notice it isn't really magic (except for Down+B... more on that below). The way Rosalina uses it in Smash indicates she is using it more like a conductor's wand... like she is giving directions to the Luma.
Rosalina's telekinesis? You mean her Down+B where she uses the wand to make a blue star cursor appear around her? That's not telekinesis, that's the wand's doing. I guess it is doing what the Wii Remote would do in Super Mario Galaxy games.
She has more than enough unique abilities and attributes for her to be justifiable to include in Smash? You mean the stuff Mario and Luigi had in Super Mario Galaxy games? We didn't get Rosalina as a playable character, we got Super Mario Galaxy games as a playable character in the form of Rosalina... and I am actually okay with that.
She did summon Lumas in Mario Golf, actually, for her Eagle animation.
As Sonicbrawler pointed out, Rosalina has been shown to summon Lumas. Either way, the Lumas aren't an ability like a weapon or something would be; they're a character. Nana : Popo : : Luma : Rosalina.
And thus another unique ability that the character of Rosalina & Luma has to justify their inclusion.
In Rosalina's jab combo, we see her twirl it around as it emits magic sparkly dust, with similarly magic-y sound effects.
Why can the wand not grant Rosalina telekinesis? The two aren't mutually exclusive. The Wiimote cursor and the down special are similar in a few ways, yes, but Rosalina's is superior to Mario's in that it can pick up any item, while Mario's can only collect star bits and influence a couple select level gimmicks. Rosalina is more adept at this than Mario, which is why she uses it here and not him. This makes sense, since she is the queen of the cosmos and all - we even see this in the Galaxy games themselves, where the co-star Luma's cursor can do things like stun enemies and bring Mario power-ups.
That doesn't mean that power-ups are Toad's thing. He sells them, but he doesn't use them any more often than Mario, or in any different way than Mario that would justify them being his and his alone.
Rosalina's moveset is comprised mostly of things that neither Mario or Luigi demonstrated. Mario and Luigi never created launch stars out of thin air - the Lumas did. Mario just got some help from them. (By the way, keep in mind that the character isn't Rosalina; its Rosalina & Luma. So any of the Lumas' abilities also count towards the character's uniqueness and stuff. If that actually makes sense.) Mario never exploded galaxies to kill people. Mario never created Saturnian rings. Mario never twirled a magic wand or anything. And whenever Rosalina & Luma do use abilities that Mario used in Galaxy, they do it better. Mario draws in Star Bits; Rosalina draws in everything. Mario shoots one Star Bit; Luma shoots several. Etc, etc. Toad, meanwhile, uses power-ups in the same exact way as Mario, with no uniqueness to him at all other than less jump height and a faster run.
Captain Toad has:
Whilst I personally prefer Captain these days to regular Toad; I'm afraid I don't agree at all with that comparison.
You mean the game where Wario doesn't do anything at all apart from appear at the end as a boss? Yeah, I doubt anyone can take Wario's Woods away from Toad. That was HIS game, no question.
...which is why I have to agree with this statement as well.
-Sonic's animal friends do help him. They can power up the Chao he raises in Sonic Adventure, and they open up new levels in Sonic Lost World. Flicky, the most iconic animal friend, also has his own platforming game.Whilst I personally prefer Captain these days to regular Toad; I'm afraid I don't agree at all with that comparison.
Yes they both require rescuing at some point, but Toad takes on a far more active role; even at his most NPC, Toad is usually depicted aiding Mario in some sort of way opposed to the animal friends who...don't actually aid Sonic in any way. When was the last time Johnny Lightfoot aided Sonic outside the comics for example?
Sonic animal friends and Chao have also never been playable characters unlike Toad. Cheese the Chao is arguably playable in one game and in as much as Luma is playable in Smash since you technically play Cream and send him to assault everything on stage. You don't really play as Cheese.
To put it lightly;
If Mario is Player 1 and Luigi is Player 2 then Toad is Player 3. Or 4. Or sometimes both game depending. Whilst NSMB required all four characters to play the same(for some reason; guess they threw that idea out in Luigi U with Nabbit) Toad has still been playable in SMB2 and 3D World platformer wise.
Also worth noting Mario and Luigi play identical in the NSMB games despite the fact we're well aware Luigi has lower traction, a higher jump and overall tweaked stats to Mario in many other games.
Likewise Toad is usually depicted as; more powerful than Mario and Luigi(seen via Turnip Pluck speed in SMB2 and various references to 'surprising strength'), faster than the brothers(and Peach) and with crappier jumps. Even regular Toad is at least as unique as Luigi is to Mario at this point. How unique that actually is comes down to personal opinion.
Not that I'd be against deleting Doc from Smash entirely and having Toad as a Mario/Luigi Semi-clone with a few tweaked specials(like giant turnip pluck from Peach). He'd have a little more merit than Mario in a labcoat at least.
You mean the game where Wario doesn't do anything at all apart from appear at the end as a boss? Yeah, I doubt anyone can take Wario's Woods away from Toad. That was HIS game, no question.
But hey; I'd be down with a Wario's Woods inspired moveset too; running up walls, summoning and stacking enemies to use as projectiles and use them as cover from attacks, line up three monsters, set off a bomb and create a massive explosion. That actually does sound pretty cool as a gimmick to me for regular Toad.
Alternatively; Toad is also able to summon mushrooms in Mario Sports Mix, which is another power that is unique to him:
In fact overall Toad is probably the Mario character MOST associated with mushrooms. Apart from his obvious appearance, Toad's special item in Double Dash(the only Mario Kart to have unique weapons) was the Golden Mushroom, which is something Smash Bros. Crusade ran with, and not to mention the very often overlooked ability to create spores.
Toad originally showcased his spores in Mario Tennis 64 befpre becoming a Smash staple. Should he have been included it's a safe bet these spores would of been in his moveset too.
Considering the amount of Toad Houses he's run as well, the minigames from the NSMB series Toad Houses are also unique moveset fodder for the more generic Toad.
It's not like Toad has NO unique moveset potential. It's just considerably less obvious than Captain Toad's moveset potential...
...which is why I have to agree with this statement as well.
Additionally as much as I'd be up for a default Toad alt(I'd freaking love it, that Toad was my childhood after all), considering his moveset will most likely include the backpack; a major gameplay excuse of the Captain Toad game, and his headlamp I can't see how regular Toad would be able to even be an alt...at least without those two pieces of clothing.
