Shroom for the Stars: Captain Toad for Smash 4! CHAPTER 11: IT'S A MII; TOAD!

[Munomario777]

Eeh, I feel walking during a Smash Charge is tacky, we all have our opinions on what is fitting for a Smash and what's not.

Walking smashes are still mainly attacks; a special move-y platform creation tool isn't mainly an attack. You should remember the "attack" in "smash attack" when mapping inputs.

He falls in from above and can choose. He travels pretty fast and has little lag when he comes out.

Your opponent still knows exactly where you're going to come out. Also, a down smash covering that much area seems a bit overpowered.

And we're basically collaborating now.

Then why not just combine our sets?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Walking smashes are still mainly attacks; a special move-y platform creation tool isn't mainly an attack. You should remember the "attack" in "smash attack" when mapping inputs.

Your opponent still knows exactly where you're going to come out. Also, a down smash covering that much area seems a bit overpowered.

Then why not just combine our sets?

1. I'm keeping it this way, I've put too much thought to it to mishmash it with a totally different thing
2. No, they have to guess between to.
If they guessed wrong, you're safe, since you go pretty quick.
No, because the attack itself is weak.
Power isn't based in one aspect of the attack.

3. No, I maky my own set with my own quirks and strategies and you make yours.
4. Oh, and FSmash is more like Green Missile and Skull Bash than Launch Star.
Not OP mobility wise.

 

[Munomario777]

1. I'm keeping it this way, I've put too much thought to it to mishmash it with a totally different thing

I don't see how a rising propeller platform and a rising mushroom platform are "totally different things". Up specials have historically had different functions when grounded or airborne. Link spins in place instead of up, Bowser and DK go along the ground, etc etc. I also don't see how a platform creating move fits at all on an up smash, or how moving it to up special and giving him another move would be a bad thing. What sort of thought have you put into this, if you don't mind me asking?

2. No, they have to guess between to.
If they guessed wrong, you're safe, since you go pretty quick.

It's a 50/50 chance. Not to mention reading, predicting, and all of that.

No, because the attack itself is weak.
Power isn't based in one aspect of the attack.

If it covers that much area, though, you're essentially covering a ton of options with one attack. The opponent cannot approach Captain Toad from the ground, because of down smash. Air approaches are rendered near useless because of up smash. Power isn't solely based on one aspect of an attack, but when one aspect is so undeniably overpowered, that makes the move overpowered unless there's some major downside to balance out, which in this case, it doesn't seem like there is.

3. No, I maky my own set with my own quirks and strategies and you make yours.

If they're so similar in the base of the set, I don't see why we can't just combine the best attributes from each set and make a better set than either of ours would be separately. This can only be a good thing.

4. Oh, and FSmash is more like Green Missile and Skull Bash than Launch Star.
Not OP mobility wise.

Captain Toad is supposed to have bad mobility unless he uses his constructs. If you give him a great mobility tool without the use of his constructs, then it completely negates the point of having these structures to begin with. If you're going to give him a unique playstyle, stick to it.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I don't see how a rising propeller platform and a rising mushroom platform are "totally different things". Up specials have historically had different functions when grounded or airborne. Link spins in place instead of up, Bowser and DK go along the ground, etc etc. I also don't see how a platform creating move fits at all on an up smash, or how moving it to up special and giving him another move would be a bad thing. What sort of thought have you put into this, if you don't mind me asking?

It's a 50/50 chance. Not to mention reading, predicting, and all of that.

If it covers that much area, though, you're essentially covering a ton of options with one attack. The opponent cannot approach Captain Toad from the ground, because of down smash. Air approaches are rendered near useless because of up smash. Power isn't solely based on one aspect of an attack, but when one aspect is so undeniably overpowered, that makes the move overpowered unless there's some major downside to balance out, which in this case, it doesn't seem like there is.

If they're so similar in the base of the set, I don't see why we can't just combine the best attributes from each set and make a better set than either of ours would be separately. This can only be a good thing.

Captain Toad is supposed to have bad mobility unless he uses his constructs. If you give him a great mobility tool without the use of his constructs, then it completely negates the point of having these structures to begin with. If you're going to give him a unique playstyle, stick to it.

1. But visually, they're different.
Bowser and DK still spin with almost the exact animation.

About how OP it is, Captain Toad literally comes upwards (the way the opponent comes from when it attacks from above)
Then the opponent can hit him.

And I've made it so that UpSmash has great synergy with UpB, as the propellor platform goes diagonally up.
Captain Toad can never board the platform when it's at its peak (it's too high), unless he uses UpSmash directly under it to propel him to the place Propellor Platform.

The propellor platform goes diagonally at a pretty steep angle.
Captain Toad can't jump that high to reach it.
Instead he can use USmash to reach it.

He USmashes, then UpBs when he's on the Mushroom.
The propellor platform travels exactly to the mushroom (since it goes diagonally) and Captain Toad can then travel to the other part of the stage

Like a triangle with one 90 degrees angle.
The straight part is the mushroom
The diagonal part is the propellor platform
The other straight part is the ground and potentionally a minecart.

2. It doesn't cover that much.
It is 1.5 Battlefield platform COMBINED, meaning that the attack merely reaches to 3/4th of a Battlefield platform on each side.

3. No.
It won't be a better set, it will be a set of random compromises (Okay, so we combine the USmash and UpB and as a trade we'll remove the walking FSmash) that will drain the uniqueness of each set.

4. Stop pretending it acts as Rosalina's Launch Star or a get out of jail card.
Yes, it has mobility in it, no it doesn't travel far and no it's not easy to use or lagless.

It's a uncharged Heavy Skull Bash more than anything.

And it actually has good synergy with the contraptions, because if he lands on a contraption, he travels away safely.
It's a way to travel the last part to the contraptions with some safety if aimed right, not Aladin's magic carpet that will fly him to the blastzones.

 

[Munomario777]

1. But visually, they're different.
Bowser and DK still spin with almost the exact animation.

You know what other special has a different look depending on how you use them? Samus's Missile vs her Super Missile. I do not see a reason why two moves looking a bit different and still having the same concept means that it is unthinkable for them to share an input. Please inform me about how that isn't an option here.

About how OP it is, Captain Toad literally comes upwards (the way the opponent comes from when it attacks from above)
Then the opponent can hit him.

Not if they're approaching from the side in the air. Captain Toad is ascending so quickly that they won't likely get a chance to hit him even if they're in the right place at the right time (which isn't very likely unless they're right above him for whatever reason).

And I've made it so that UpSmash has great synergy with UpB, as the propellor platform goes diagonally up.
Captain Toad can never board the platform when it's at its peak (it's too high), unless he uses UpSmash directly under it to propel him to the place Propellor Platform.

The propellor platform goes diagonally at a pretty steep angle.
Captain Toad can't jump that high to reach it.
Instead he can use USmash to reach it.

He USmashes, then UpBs when he's on the Mushroom.
The propellor platform travels exactly to the mushroom (since it goes diagonally) and Captain Toad can then travel to the other part of the stage

Like a triangle with one 90 degrees angle.
The straight part is the mushroom
The diagonal part is the propellor platform
The other straight part is the ground and potentionally a minecart.

What part of this relates to the mushroom platform not being on up special? All of this could easily be accomplished with both moves fused to up special, and Captain Toad would have a new, non-tacky up smash.

2. It doesn't cover that much.
It is 1.5 Battlefield platform COMBINED, meaning that the attack merely reaches to 3/4th of a Battlefield platform on each side.

"Merely". You act as if a quick move covering more than a Battlefield platform is normal. Unless a foe has great range on their attacks (like Marth or a projectile user), they cannot approach Captain Toad from the ground. Why? Because the pipe will hit them before they get close enough. Captain Toad can interrupt approaches from the air and the ground. That's what we call overpowered.

3. No.
It won't be a better set, it will be a set of random compromises (Okay, so we combine the USmash and UpB and as a trade we'll remove the walking FSmash) that will drain the uniqueness of each set.

Of course the sets won't be "unique" from each other; they'll be the same set! That's how combining sets with the best elements from both works. I don't see how freeing up an input means we have to remove an attack. We shouldn't do this one to one exchange deal if we want to combine the best parts. Rather, we should see what parts are actually the best/work with the others the best and combine them. A set made only of the best parts from two sets will be better than either of those two sets combined.

4. Stop pretending it acts as Rosalina's Launch Star or a get out of jail card.
Yes, it has mobility in it, no it doesn't travel far and no it's not easy to use or lagless.

It's a uncharged Heavy Skull Bash more than anything.

I see.

And it actually has good synergy with the contraptions, because if he lands on a contraption, he travels away safely.
It's a way to travel the last part to the contraptions with some safety if aimed right, not Aladin's magic carpet that will fly him to the blastzones.

The point is to use contraptions to gain mobility, not to use mobility to access contraptions.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

You know what other special has a different look depending on how you use them? Samus's Missile vs her Super Missile. I do not see a reason why two moves looking a bit different and still having the same concept means that it is unthinkable for them to share an input. Please inform me about how that isn't an option here.

Not if they're approaching from the side in the air. Captain Toad is ascending so quickly that they won't likely get a chance to hit him even if they're in the right place at the right time (which isn't very likely unless they're right above him for whatever reason).

What part of this relates to the mushroom platform not being on up special? All of this could easily be accomplished with both moves fused to up special, and Captain Toad would have a new, non-tacky up smash.

"Merely". You act as if a quick move covering more than a Battlefield platform is normal. Unless a foe has great range on their attacks (like Marth or a projectile user), they cannot approach Captain Toad from the ground. Why? Because the pipe will hit them before they get close enough. Captain Toad can interrupt approaches from the air and the ground. That's what we call overpowered.

Of course the sets won't be "unique" from each other; they'll be the same set! That's how combining sets with the best elements from both works. I don't see how freeing up an input means we have to remove an attack. We shouldn't do this one to one exchange deal if we want to combine the best parts. Rather, we should see what parts are actually the best/work with the others the best and combine them. A set made only of the best parts from two sets will be better than either of those two sets combined.

I see.

The point is to use contraptions to gain mobility, not to use mobility to access contraptions.

1. I'm not changing it because it feels "tacky"
Having two moves with different trajectory, attributes and aethetics meshed into one input is "tacky"

The only "Special" thing about special moves is that they can be used in the air.
Everything else has been disproven by Mega "My jab is a projectile" Man.

2. I see. I'll edit it.
EDIT: Made it so that the stem does no damage.
Now opponents can air-dodge through the attack if they attack from above, or go down and hunt Toad down when they come from the sides.

Also, you said Captain Toad would be ascending too quickly, but then the shroom deals no damage anymore.
So the hitbox is big, but doesn't last long.

3. The fact that the propellor platform is moved up, moved down and placed by the UpB input.

4. I'll look into it and edit it.
EDIT: Changed into one Battlefield platform. (0.5 platform on each side)

5. No.
We'd have the same discussion as we have now, but instead of me having the right to make my own decision, we'd have to come to a solution.
Settling on UpB alone would take ages.

6. That's "the point" of your moveset. Not mine.

 

[Munomario777]

1. I'm not changing it because it feels "tacky"

Why not? It seems like a good reason to do so.

Having two moves with different trajectory, attributes and aethetics meshed into one input is "tacky"

What, like Samus's missiles?

The only "Special" thing about special moves is that they can be used in the air.

Not Peach's down special. The "special" thing about special moves is that they provide unique (or "special") functions that wouldn't really fit on a smash or standard. (Most of the time.) For example, creating a bouncy platform.

Everything else has been disproven by Mega "My jab is a projectile" Man.

How so?

2. I see. I'll edit it.
EDIT: Made it so that the stem does no damage.
Now opponents can air-dodge through the attack if they attack from above, or go down and hunt Toad down when they come from the sides.

Except Toad is now way too high for them to do that.

Also, you said Captain Toad would be ascending too quickly, but then the shroom deals no damage anymore.
So the hitbox is big, but doesn't last long.

That doesn't seem very logical.

3. The fact that the propellor platform is moved up, moved down and placed by the UpB input.

You could just jump and use Up Special to board the propeller platform from the ground.

5. No.
We'd have the same discussion as we have now, but instead of me having the right to make my own decision, we'd have to come to a solution.
Settling on UpB alone would take ages.

Okay, here's an idea. How about we just work on our movesets separately, and once we're both done, we take a look at each other's sets and combine the best parts? We won't really be able to analyze each other's movesets until they're actually completed.

6. That's "the point" of your moveset. Not mine.

Then what is the point of your set? Your "playstyle" section would seem to suggest that it is the point of your moveset.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Why not? It seems like a good reason to do so.

What, like Samus's missiles?

Not Peach's down special. The "special" thing about special moves is that they provide unique (or "special") functions that wouldn't really fit on a smash or standard. (Most of the time.) For example, creating a bouncy platform.

How so?

Except Toad is now way too high for them to do that.

That doesn't seem very logical.

You could just jump and use Up Special to board the propeller platform from the ground.

Okay, here's an idea. How about we just work on our movesets separately, and once we're both done, we take a look at each other's sets and combine the best parts? We won't really be able to analyze each other's movesets until they're actually completed.

Then what is the point of your set? Your "playstyle" section would seem to suggest that it is the point of your moveset.

1. Samuses Missiles x10
2. Or like creating a projectile for Jab and Forward Smash, burying for Down Smash and three different inputs for Forward Smash?
3. See above.
4. You mean one Battlefield platform high (dang it, I meant the side ones, not the skyscraper middle one) (I believe that's the communication error here)
EDIT: In my set is clearly said that the stem is Ganondorf-sized, meaning that the mushroom isn't very high.
Anyway, most characters can poke through that, from the ground, from a short hop or whatever.

5. When Captain Toad stops ascending, the hitboxes stop.
Thus, if Captain Toad is ascending very quick, the hitboxes last very short.
6. I don't get it.
7. But some moves work together in our movesets (My UpSmash and UpB, FSmash and Specials) and that depth is lost when combining.
8. It's based around having mobility through attacks.
Contraptions are the main deal, but having Smashes move Captain Toad a bit isn't going against everything.
It adds to it.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Sorry guys; I've actually been at a big wedding the past several days and thus am about two to three pages behind on the current conversation. Please bare with me Pacack for that feedback you tagged me on as I am still in a rather unfit state to give sound advice or opinion on anything.

Once I've caught up I'd ideally like to comment on all the ideas you guys have come up with.

Also I'd like to thank you guys for getting the thread living again. It's been a while since we had so much activity.

Doot de doot. Captain signing off and finding a dark cave for a few hours to rest his weary eyes.

 

[Munomario777]

1. Samuses Missiles x10

How so? Missiles that are more powerful, faster, and green versus missiles that are purple, slower, and home in.
Platforms that are mushroom-y and come out of the ground versus platforms that have propellers and ascend in midair.
I don't see that much of a difference here.

2. Or like creating a projectile for Jab and Forward Smash, burying for Down Smash and three different inputs for Forward Smash?

I don't see your point here.

3. See above.
4. You mean one Battlefield platform high (dang it, I meant the side ones, not the skyscraper middle one) (I believe that's the communication error here)

No, I mean however high the mushroom goes.

Anyway, most characters can poke through that.

Poke through what?

5. When Captain Toad stops ascending, the hitboxes stop.
Thus, if Captain Toad is ascending very quick, the hitboxes last very short.

It still covers a huge area (depending on how high the mushroom goes).

6. I don't get it.

The aerial up special is the propeller platform, so you simply jump and then use up special to use the propeller platform.

7. But some moves work together in our movesets (My UpSmash and UpB, FSmash and Specials) and that depth is lost when combining.

The up smash and up special that your set has are still present; just consolidated into one input to allow us to have more moves. Forward Smash could have potential, but I'm not sure if that's the right input for it.

8. It's based around having mobility through attacks.
Contraptions are the main deal, but having Smashes move Captain Toad a bit isn't going against everything.
It adds to it.

I see.

Updated my set, by the way, with descriptions (not final of course; just a couple of sentences to get the point across) for all attacks except the Final Smash. I've used your ideas for some moves; what do you think?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

How so? Missiles that are more powerful, faster, and green versus missiles that are purple, slower, and home in.
Platforms that are mushroom-y and come out of the ground versus platforms that have propellers and ascend in midair.
I don't see that much of a difference here.

I don't see your point here.

No, I mean however high the mushroom goes.

Poke through what?

It still covers a huge area (depending on how high the mushroom goes).

The aerial up special is the propeller platform, so you simply jump and then use up special to use the propeller platform.

The up smash and up special that your set has are still present; just consolidated into one input to allow us to have more moves. Forward Smash could have potential, but I'm not sure if that's the right input for it.

I see.

Updated my set, by the way, with descriptions (not final of course; just a couple of sentences to get the point across) for all attacks except the Final Smash. I've used your ideas for some moves; what do you think?

1. Both are still missiles.
Mushrooms that act as trampolines and propellors that act as a recovery platform are different things.
It's like having Launch Star and Abadon Ship, or Dolphin Slash and Spin Attack in one input.

2. Those things are all more than just attacks and resemble special moves.

3. The Stem is a Ganondorf high, and the Mushroom is a Sonic Spring thick.
Many, if not all characters, can reach this height from a short hop aerial.

4. The Battlefield platforms at the sides
Most characters can attack through it from the sides.

5. It doesn't go high, the stem does no damage and the attack lasts short, meaning people can easily air-dodge through it.

6. But the controlling of the propellor platform goes further than making it.
You can let it descend quicky and you can activate it if it's idle and you can create it.

That's not possible to retain when shoving the Mushroom Platform in it.

Though I might have a solution:
You can have two Propellor Platforms on-stage at once and control one of them with "normal" inputs, and the other with "Smash" inputs.
This way, there's no visual disrepancy and you can have the same shenanigans.

But I'm not implementing that, it's just an idea if we collaborate.

7. It's a now normal projectile Smash, except the Captain is the projectile now.
It's not a regular FSmash but it adds to the set and can't be set somewhere else (unless you wanna replace Minecart with this, but that'd be stupid)

8. I'll definitely take a look at it.
EDIT: Is your name Nabbit because you stole a lot.

 

[Munomario777]

1. Both are still missiles.

Both of these are still platforms.

Mushrooms that act as trampolines and propellors that act as a recovery platform are different things.

One is a jumpy platform, one is a rising platform. I don't see a huge difference here, or at least one to necessitate an up smash that isn't primarily an attack.

It's like having Launch Star and Abadon Ship, or Dolphin Slash and Spin Attack in one input.

Those are actually fairly similar. They serve a similar general purpose, but have different details, sorta like the two platforms here. Launch Star and Abandon Ship both send you upwards, but one has an attack and the other sends you further. Dolphin Slash and Spin Attack both send you upwards and attack, but one is more horizontal, slower, and multi-hit while the other is one-hit but faster and goes higher.

2. Those things are all more than just attacks and resemble special moves.

They're all attacks. Projectiles are just a type of attack. Burying people is just a type of attack. Angling attacks is universal for forward smashes and forward tilts. Creating platforms to walk on and jump off of isn't a type of attack; it's manipulating the stage, which isn't what a smash attack is supposed to be.

3. The Stem is a Ganondorf high, and the Mushroom is a Sonic Spring thick.
Many, if not all characters, can reach this height from a short hop aerial.

I see. Captain Toad would still dodge most ground attacks.

4. The Battlefield platforms at the sides
Most characters can attack through it from the sides.

What Battlefield platforms at the sides?

5. It doesn't go high, the stem does no damage and the attack lasts short, meaning people can easily air-dodge through it.

And now they're below Captain Toad, and he can easily dodge anything they try to throw at him.

6. But the controlling of the propellor platform goes further than making it.
You can let it descend quicky and you can activate it if it's idle and you can create it.

That's not possible to retain when shoving the Mushroom Platform in it.

You could just use Up Special in the air again (or while on the platform, as you can't make mushroom platforms on propeller ones) to make it ascend. The way I pictured it was that it would disappear when Captain Toad got off, but we could do some interesting things with it sticking around. The only problem would be creating a new one in order to recover (although I suppose that's where the Super Pickaxe comes in). I really like the idea of manipulating the propeller platform; it even mirrors their function in games like Treasure Tracker and 3D World.

Though I might have a solution:
You can have two Propellor Platforms on-stage at once and control one of them with "normal" inputs, and the other with "Smash" inputs.
This way, there's no visual disrepancy and you can have the same shenanigans.

But I'm not implementing that, it's just an idea if we collaborate.

The Mushroom and Propeller platforms would have different functions. Mushroom ones would stay still and have climbable stalks, whereas the propeller platforms would be controllable and move around.

7. It's a now normal projectile Smash, except the Captain is the projectile now.
It's not a regular FSmash but it adds to the set and can't be set somewhere else (unless you wanna replace Minecart with this, but that'd be stupid)

I actually put it on up smash in my set.

8. I'll definitely take a look at it.
EDIT: Is your name Nabbit because you stole a lot.

Hey, I said I would be using some of your ideas! It's mostly an idea of how we could combine our ideas into one set and still have it be a cohesive playstyle. What do ya think?

(By the way, I also changed around some things from my own set in response to your feedback; for example, the forward smash.)

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Both of these are still platforms.

One is a jumpy platform, one is a rising platform. I don't see a huge difference here, or at least one to necessitate an up smash that isn't primarily an attack.

Those are actually fairly similar. They serve a similar general purpose, but have different details, sorta like the two platforms here. Launch Star and Abandon Ship both send you upwards, but one has an attack and the other sends you further. Dolphin Slash and Spin Attack both send you upwards and attack, but one is more horizontal, slower, and multi-hit while the other is one-hit but faster and goes higher.

They're all attacks. Projectiles are just a type of attack. Burying people is just a type of attack. Angling attacks is universal for forward smashes and forward tilts. Creating platforms to walk on and jump off of isn't a type of attack; it's manipulating the stage, which isn't what a smash attack is supposed to be.

I see. Captain Toad would still dodge most ground attacks.

What Battlefield platforms at the sides?

And now they're below Captain Toad, and he can easily dodge anything they try to throw at him.

You could just use Up Special in the air again (or while on the platform, as you can't make mushroom platforms on propeller ones) to make it ascend. The way I pictured it was that it would disappear when Captain Toad got off, but we could do some interesting things with it sticking around. The only problem would be creating a new one in order to recover (although I suppose that's where the Super Pickaxe comes in). I really like the idea of manipulating the propeller platform; it even mirrors their function in games like Treasure Tracker and 3D World.

The Mushroom and Propeller platforms would have different functions. Mushroom ones would stay still and have climbable stalks, whereas the propeller platforms would be controllable and move around.

I actually put it on up smash in my set.

Hey, I said I would be using some of your ideas! It's mostly an idea of how we could combine our ideas into one set and still have it be a cohesive playstyle. What do ya think?

(By the way, I also changed around some things from my own set in response to your feedback; for example, the forward smash.)

1/2/6. I quit arguing about the UpSmash/UpB thing.
I'm not gonna change opinions, you're not gonna change opinions.

3/5/. As if being above the opponent is an advantageous position to be in.
Remember the opponent probably has better mobility than Captain Toad

4. The non-middle Battlefield platforms.

7. I saw it, great idea. (Though with Toads falling speed he might not get very much mileage out of it, depending on how high it goes)

8. I'll look at it again from that perspective and put my thoughts here:

It's good, though 10% and medium knockback on the turnips from the turret might be too much.
Especially for a projectile that can potentionally be aimed.
Maybe a weaker, more "harassing"-type of projectile could be used.

I also think Forward Smash should have Mega Turnips instead of their weak and small brethren.

 

[Munomario777]

1/2/6. I quit arguing about the UpSmash/UpB thing.
I'm not gonna change opinions, you're not gonna change opinions.

M'kay.

3/5/. As if being above the opponent is an advantageous position to be in.
Remember the opponent probably has better mobility than Captain Toad

Except they're in the severe landing lag that happens when you air dodge close to the ground.

4. The non-middle Battlefield platforms.

And if you're not playing on Battlefield?

7. I saw it, great idea. (Though with Toads falling speed he might not get very much mileage out of it, depending on how high it goes)

Thanks! You can angle it rather quickly, so it can also be used for horizontal travel.

8. I'll look at it again from that perspective and put my thoughts here.

Okay, can't wait to hear them!

It's good, though 10% and medium knockback on the turnips from the turret might be too much.

They can harm Captain Toad as well, although I'll consider lowering the damage.

Especially for a projectile that can potentionally be aimed.
Maybe a weaker, more "harassing"-type of projectile could be used.

Good point. I'mma edit that real quick.

I also think Forward Smash should have Mega Turnips instead of their weak and small brethren.

They actually grow into bigger turnips the more you charge the attack.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

M'kay.

Except they're in the severe landing lag that happens when you air dodge close to the ground.

And if you're not playing on Battlefield?

Thanks! You can angle it rather quickly, so it can also be used for horizontal travel.

Okay, can't wait to hear them!

They can harm Captain Toad as well, although I'll consider lowering the damage.

Good point. I'mma edit that real quick.

They actually grow into bigger turnips the more you charge the attack.

1. That's not what I said
2. Then the opponent can attack through the Mushroom as if it was a Battlefield platform.
It's my way to measure range.
3. How far can you aim it?
4. I saw that, but 10% is very fast damage racking for a homing projectile
5. But most people don't charge attacks, leaving the Smash to throwing tiny turnips.

 

[Munomario777]

1. That's not what I said

You said they could air dodge through the mushroom. However, if they're doing it that close to the ground, they're going to suffer landing lag.

2. Then the opponent can attack through the Mushroom as if it was a Battlefield platform.

Except for the landing lag.

It's my way to measure range.

Ah, I see.

3. How far can you aim it?

You can aim it horizontally.

4. I saw that, but 10% is very fast damage racking for a homing projectile

It's not a homing projectile.

5. But most people don't charge attacks, leaving the Smash to throwing tiny turnips.

I don't see how that's a problem. It's a projectile, so you sacrifice power for better range.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

You said they could air dodge through the mushroom. However, if they're doing it that close to the ground, they're going to suffer landing lag.

Except for the landing lag.

Ah, I see.

You can aim it horizontally.

It's not a homing projectile.

I don't see how that's a problem. It's a projectile, so you sacrifice power for better range.

1/2. That's no heavy lag.
I've nerfed this move to the point where the only thing I can say is "git gud"
It's a reliable kill move, that's not a bad thing.

EDIT: nvm, it has twice the range of Villy's UpSmash, it IS op.
I'll nerf it even further.

3/4. Okay
5. Aimable, even worse
I'd camp behind the Turret all day if it had 10% damage projectiles that are aimable.
6. It just looks stupid to have a little turnip be a Smash attack
I suggest having diamonds that grow in size.

 

[Munomario777]

1/2. That's no heavy lag.
I've nerfed this move to the point where the only thing I can say is "git gud"
It's a reliable kill move, that's not a bad thing.

EDIT: nvm, it has twice the range of Villy's UpSmash, it IS op.
I'll nerf it even further.

I just think that the platform mechanics could be a lot better if it wasn't an attack. If it has a hitbox, it has to be small, but if it's just a platform (like on up special), it can be full sized without being OP.

3/4. Okay
5. Aimable, even worse
I'd camp behind the Turret all day if it had 10% damage projectiles that are aimable.

They deal 5% now.

6. It just looks stupid to have a little turnip be a Smash attack
I suggest having diamonds that grow in size.

Captain Toad never throws Super Gems, and Super Gems don't grow (turnips do, since they're living things and all). The turnip just seems more fitting to me. The turnip would be a good size, and have a good damage output as well. I'm thinking something along the lines of Mega Man's charge shot.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I just think that the platform mechanics could be a lot better if it wasn't an attack. If it has a hitbox, it has to be small, but if it's just a platform (like on up special), it can be full sized without being OP.

They deal 5% now.

Captain Toad never throws Super Gems, and Super Gems don't grow (turnips do, since they're living things and all). The turnip just seems more fitting to me. The turnip would be a good size, and have a good damage output as well. I'm thinking something along the lines of Mega Man's charge shot.

I've nerfed it in kill power, not in size of platform.

 

[Munomario777]

I've nerfed it in kill power, not in size of platform.

In that case, the area it covers is still a bit too large. Whether or not it has kill power, it'll still block air approaches. I'm telling you, it'll be much more useful and balanced if you just make it a non-damaging special move. You can make it go up higher, stick around for longer, and even give him a better up smash with more attack power. There are literally no downsides to this.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

In that case, the area it covers is still a bit too large. Whether or not it has kill power, it'll still block air approaches. I'm telling you, it'll be much more useful and balanced if you just make it a non-damaging special move. You can make it go up higher, stick around for longer, and even give him a better up smash with more attack power. There are literally no downsides to this.

.....

I'm actually convinced by this one.

Though then it will be worked into a propellor platform instead of having a Mushroom and Propellor worked into the same UpB.
I'll tell you when it's done.

(I already know the new UpSmash will be a Power Star-attack though.)

 

[Munomario777]

.....

I'm actually convinced by this one.

Though then it will be worked into a propellor platform instead of having a Mushroom and Propellor worked into the same UpB.
I'll tell you when it's done.

(I already know the new UpSmash will be a Power Star-attack though.)

Why does it have to be a propeller platform? A mushroom platform would allow more utility with a climbable stalk (to aid his poor mobility, especially if the platform is up high).

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Why does it have to be a propeller platform? A mushroom platform would allow more utility with a climbable stalk (to aid his poor mobility, especially if the platform is up high).

Consistency in aesthetics.
And I've put very much utility in the double propellor platforms, and even have an idea for more!

 

[Munomario777]

Consistency in aesthetics.

I don't think that's worth sacrificing a unique gameplay function over.

And I've put very much utility in the double propellor platforms, and even have an idea for more!

Yes, but there's even more utility if you have both the propeller platforms and the mushroom platforms.

Though in retrospect, I suppose a propeller platform would sort of fit Captain Toad and his "contraption" deal more (mushroom platforms aren't in his game after all).

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I don't think that's worth sacrificing a unique gameplay function over.

Yes, but there's even more utility if you have both the propeller platforms and the mushroom platforms.

Though in retrospect, I suppose a propeller platform would sort of fit Captain Toad and his "contraption" deal more (mushroom platforms aren't in his game after all).

But I don't sacrifice anything .

 

[Munomario777]

But I don't sacrifice anything .

You've convinced me, I'll make it a propeller platform on the ground too.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

You've convinced me, I'll make it a propeller platform on the ground too.

Might as well collaborate now, since both of our biggest pet peeves are made the same.
But we'll see at the end, when our movesets are exactly the same

See no problem in making two of the same movesets into one, if that's gonna be the case.
(Though I feel Power Stars should be somewhere in his moveset, it's his main treasure!)

 

[Munomario777]

Might as well collaborate now, since both of our biggest pet peeves are made the same.
But we'll see at the end, when our movesets are exactly the same

See no problem in making two of the same movesets into one, if that's gonna be the case.
(Though I feel Power Stars should be somewhere in his moveset, it's his main treasure!)

Same here.

I've added both Power Stars and Green Stars into a new up aerial, to reference both Treasure Tracker and 3D World.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Same here.

I've added both Power Stars and Green Stars into a new up aerial, to reference both Treasure Tracker and 3D World.

I've added them as a hillarious Up Smash.
Poor Captain...

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Visited GameStop today and saw a Toad amiibo for the first time. I of course bought him immediately. Now all I need is Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker but that's kind of on the back of my games list.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I have now added GIFs to my moveset!

 

[ChikoLad]

If any of you still have not gotten Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (and if you haven't got it yet, what are you doing with your life? :V), and also fancy a Toad Amiibo, AND also live in the UK:

There is a bundle with the game and Amiibo coming out in the UK, which we heard of before. However, Argos is listing it in their catalog as an Argos exclusive.

If this is the case, then this actually makes this the first retailer exclusive Amiibo related product in the UK, and maybe even all of Europe IIRC.

 

[fogbadge]

I have now added GIFs to my moveset!

im thinking up taunt

 

[WeirdChillFever]

@ Munomario777
Now both of our movesets are done as my stats would basically be your stats and your "words" would be mine, how are we going to combine them?

Do we take my moveset as a base, or yours?

What moves do we change?

Do we keep the Jetbackpack?
What are going to be the Smashes?

 

[Munomario777]

@ Munomario777
Now both of our movesets are done as my stats would basically be your stats and your "words" would be mine, how are we going to combine them?

Do we take my moveset as a base, or yours?

What moves do we change?

Do we keep the Jetbackpack?
What are going to be the Smashes?

I think we should use the formatting from mine, to be honest, so I guess my set could be the "base".

The moves from your set I like the most are probably the grab game, forward aerial, and down smash. Those could definitely be implemented (although I already sorta added them a while back ).

I think the jetbackpack should stay personally; it's in character, and makes a neat little reference to the Brigade and the Lumas.

I think we agree on down smash. Forward smash seems to be the best place to implement the turnip throwing (which is a big part of his character), so that leaves up smash for the pipe cannon.

There's also the final smash, which I think should be the Starshroom (like in the set I made a while ago). Also, custom moves. Should we do them? If so, we could perhaps each do one for each special.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think we should use the formatting from mine, to be honest, so I guess my set could be the "base".

The moves from your set I like the most are probably the grab game, forward aerial, and down smash. Those could definitely be implemented (although I already sorta added them a while back ).

I think the jetbackpack should stay personally; it's in character, and makes a neat little reference to the Brigade and the Lumas.

I think we agree on down smash. Forward smash seems to be the best place to implement the turnip throwing (which is a big part of his character), so that leaves up smash for the pipe cannon.

There's also the final smash, which I think should be the Starshroom (like in the set I made a while ago). Also, custom moves. Should we do them? If so, we could perhaps each do one for each special.

EDIT: But I made GIFs.
They were an ass to make and I don't have the link anymore for easy copy-pasting.
I'd rather have mine post to use as a template honestly.
I can make my post the same as yours, formatting wise, as it's just a matter of copy-pasting.

Custom moves have kinda been confirmed not to appear.

I'd rather not have something completely new scrammed into the moveset for the sake of not complettely breaking canon/a little flashback.
I'd rather have two bad jumps that break canon than a Luma Jetpack that stretches it with something out of the blue,

Okay, but the Turnip Throw FSmash gets a bit of a redesign.
What if it was a two-part Smash?

Part one is the pluck, which sends opponents forward.
Part two is the throw, which can kill opponents.

Captain Toad can walk between the two parts.

I namely designed the Smashes so that they all had mobility, so I feel this is a non-"tacky" compromise.

Also, I'm fine with USmash being Cannon, it was mostly vertical in Treasure Tracker to begin with.

 

[Munomario777]

EDIT: But I made GIFs.
They were an *** to make and I don't have the link anymore for easy copy-pasting.
I'd rather have mine post to use as a template honestly.
I can make my post the same as yours, formatting wise, as it's just a matter of copy-pasting.

I've already got the formatting done. I could definitely add those GIFs to my post, of course; they're a very nice visual aid.

I don't think formatting like that works very well when you copy-paste, by the way.

Custom moves have kinda been confirmed not to appear.

What do you mean by that?

I'd rather not have something completely new scrammed into the moveset for the sake of not complettely breaking canon/a little flashback.
I'd rather have two bad jumps that break canon than a Luma Jetpack that stretches it with something out of the blue,

I don't think having something completely new is bad, as long as it fits the character. Captain Toad has mechanically capable friends, and he can't jump, so having a mechanical jumping aid of some sort fits his character and his background. Either way, it's just a tiny detail.

Okay, but the Turnip Throw FSmash gets a bit of a redesign.
What if it was a two-part Smash?

Part one is the pluck, which sends opponents forward.
Part two is the throw, which can kill opponents.

Captain Toad can walk between the two parts.

I like the idea of a hitbox at the beginning of the charge.

I namely designed the Smashes so that they all had mobility, so I feel this is a non-"tacky" compromise.

Also, I'm fine with USmash being Cannon, it was mostly vertical in Treasure Tracker to begin with.

Agreed.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I've already got the formatting done. I could definitely add those GIFs to my post, of course; they're a very nice visual aid.

I don't think formatting like that works very well when you copy-paste, by the way.

What do you mean by that?

I don't think having something completely new is bad, as long as it fits the character. Captain Toad has mechanically capable friends, and he can't jump, so having a mechanical jumping aid of some sort fits his character and his background. Either way, it's just a tiny detail.

I like the idea of a hitbox at the beginning of the charge.

Agreed.

If you can add the GIFs, then I see no problem in using your post.
I can make one for Up Smash as well, as well for the new Forward Smash

All of the DLC-characters so far didn't have customs.
I think it's safe to say none of them will have them.
Besides, I feel it's better to focus on the vanilla moveset, maybe later we can decide if we do them or not.

He can, it's just that the gameplay didn't allow him to.

It's not the charge, it's the beginning of the Smash.
A Toon Link-like double Smash.

Charging can have him plucking longer, because the reward gets bigger and bigger underground.
Then releasing the charge plucks the Turnip.
Then Captain Toad can walk around.
Then he can press A the second time for the throw.

Nice.

 

[Munomario777]

If you can add the GIFs, then I see no problem in using your post.
I can make one for Up Smash as well, as well for the new Forward Smash

Ok, nice.

All of the DLC-characters so far didn't have customs.
I think it's safe to say none of them will have them.
Besides, I feel it's better to focus on the vanilla moveset, maybe later we can decide if we do them or not.

Oh, we don't have to exclude customs just because DLC fighters don't have them. MYM isn't really a "speculate DLC" thread; it's more a "make cool movesets" thread.

He can, it's just that the gameplay didn't allow him to.

Because of his backpack, which he has here.

It's not the charge, it's the beginning of the Smash.
A Toon Link-like double Smash.

Charging can have him plucking longer, because the reward gets bigger and bigger underground.
Then releasing the charge plucks the Turnip.
Then Captain Toad can walk around.
Then he can press A the second time for the throw.

I like that, although the "walking around with the turnip and then throwing it" bit sounds a bit strange/awkward. It may be better if releasing the charge just plucks and then throws the turnip, for a natural combo (you pluck it to knock opponents forwards, and then hit them with the turnip).

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Ok, nice.

Oh, we don't have to exclude customs just because DLC fighters don't have them. MYM isn't really a "speculate DLC" thread; it's more a "make cool movesets" thread.

Well, I still think we should decide about customs after the normal moveset is done.

Because of his backpack, which he has here.

No, because of how heavy loaded his backpack was.

I like that, although the "walking around with the turnip and then throwing it" bit sounds a bit strange/awkward. It may be better if releasing the charge just plucks and then throws the turnip, for a natural combo (you pluck it to knock opponents forwards, and then hit them with the turnip).

But how do we incorporate the mobility then?
Maybe make it so he can only walk forward and jump?

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