Shroom for the Stars: Captain Toad for Smash 4! CHAPTER 11: IT'S A MII; TOAD!

[Munomario777]

Well, I still think we should decide about customs after the normal moveset is done.

Agreed.

No, because of how heavy loaded his backpack was.

Why wouldn't it be packed here? He's always prepared for any situation.

But how do we incorporate the mobility then?
Maybe make it so he can only walk forward and jump?

I think having a projectile makes up for mobility. It's a ranged attack; there's no real need to walk forwards while you charge it. Besides, you could always get mobility via the minecart or something.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Agreed.

Why wouldn't it be packed here? He's always prepared for any situation.

I think having a projectile makes up for mobility. It's a ranged attack; there's no real need to walk forwards while you charge it. Besides, you could always get mobility via the minecart or something.

First, have an Up Smash GIF.

-It's not about how packed the backpack is, it's about gameplay.
In Treasure Tracker, the gameplay demanded Captain Toad not to jump.
That's not the case in Smash, so he could jump there, well-prepared or not.

-That's true
EDIT: Though maybe it could work like this:

 

[Munomario777]

First, have an Up Smash GIF.

Noice.

-It's not about how packed the backpack is, it's about gameplay.
In Treasure Tracker, the gameplay demanded Captain Toad not to jump.
That's not the case in Smash, so he could jump there, well-prepared or not.

Captain Toad not jumping is given a reason, though. Link can't jump in Ocarina of Time because that's not what the gameplay is about, but Smash's gameplay is different, so he jumps in Smash. It's a gameplay reason, not an in-universe, character-based one, so when the gameplay changes, the jumping (or lack thereof) changes. Captain Toad, however, has the logical, in-universe reasoning of "his backpack is heavy, so he can't jump". It's part of his character, and his character should be retained here. However, Smash's gameplay demands some sort of jump, so he gets the jetbackpack, which both makes sense in-universe and with Captain Toad's character and also fits Smash's gameplay style.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Noice.

Captain Toad not jumping is given a reason, though. Link can't jump in Ocarina of Time because that's not what the gameplay is about, but Smash's gameplay is different, so he jumps in Smash. It's a gameplay reason, not an in-universe, character-based one, so when the gameplay changes, the jumping (or lack thereof) changes. Captain Toad, however, has the logical, in-universe reasoning of "his backpack is heavy, so he can't jump". It's part of his character, and his character should be retained here. However, Smash's gameplay demands some sort of jump, so he gets the jetbackpack, which both makes sense in-universe and with Captain Toad's character and also fits Smash's gameplay style.

Yeah, but Smash could just as well give a new reason without implementing a new thing.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

So I've been wondering, if Captain Toad got in Smash, could he have a costume that is what the normal Toad. I mean, I want a normal Toad costume.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

So I've been wondering, if Captain Toad got in Smash, could he have a costume that is what the normal Toad. I mean, I want a normal Toad costume.

Honestly, I think a Blue Toad Brigade member is the closest we'll get.

 

[Munomario777]

Yeah, but Smash could just as well give a new reason without implementing a new thing.

Such as a jetbackpack.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Honestly, I think a Blue Toad Brigade member is the closest we'll get.

I think the costumes should be Captain Toad (default), Blue Toad, Yellow Toad, Green Toad, Mailtoad, Normal Toad, Toadette, Toadsworth inspired costume.

 

[Munomario777]

I think the costumes should be Captain Toad (default), Blue Toad, Yellow Toad, Green Toad, Mailtoad, Normal Toad, Toadette, Toadsworth inspired costume.

They'd all have to have his headlamp and backpack, since a lot of moves would probably use those (i.e. shining his headlamp, swinging/taking something out of his backpack).

 

[WeirdChillFever]

BTW, I updated my moveset again:

http://smashboards.com/threads/shro...fun-gi-and-games.343064/page-41#post-19681273

Still under construction though

 

[BluePikmin11]

New Mobile Update:

* Mike Jones:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll367431x37574353-14

* Captain Toad:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll367433x13DBD318-14

* Shadow:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll367444xCd3649De-14

* Rayman:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll367448xc27BA489-14

Go vote.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

So what do we need to do now with the moveset @ Munomario777 ?

 

[Deleted member]

Everytime i think of Toad/Captain Toad, i think of Vinny's voice for Toad.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Everytime i think of Toad/Captain Toad, i think of Vinny's voice for Toad.

I think I think of Chugga's voice for Toad.

 

[ChikoLad]

http://play.nintendo.com/activities/quizzes/captain-toad-treasure-tracker-fun-quiz/

DO YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BE A MEMBER OF THE TOAD BRIGADE???

TAKE THE QUIZ AND FIND OUT.

Spoiler

It's incredibly easy, lol.

 

[YoshiandToad]

http://play.nintendo.com/activities/quizzes/captain-toad-treasure-tracker-fun-quiz/

DO YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BE A MEMBER OF THE TOAD BRIGADE???

TAKE THE QUIZ AND FIND OUT.

Spoiler

It's incredibly easy, lol.

Thank god I got 5 out of 5 right. Although in all fairness; pulling up a mole tends to lead to great stuff too.

 

[BluePikmin11]

At this point, I'd expect Toad to be a costume in the same sense Chrom was deconfirmed.

 

[YoshiandToad]

At this point, I'd expect Toad to be a costume in the same sense Chrom was deconfirmed.

At this point I'd be amazed if he got even that considering he's been an undeserving punchbag since Melee.

 

[ChikoLad]

I never really wanted Toad personally before Captain Toad (there was just absolutely nothing standout that I felt he could offer). I consider Captain Toad his own distinct character, but I wouldn't mind a normal Toad alt if they added Captain Toad. Or at the very least, use Blue Toad to differentiate the alt from the Toad that Peach pulls out.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Captain Toad would be a very interesting character if he had no jumps and had to rely on his specials to get airborne. Still, Mac may have a hog of the counterproductive ground focus niche.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Captain Toad would be a very interesting character if he had no jumps and had to rely on his specials to get airborne. Still, Mac may have a hog of the counterproductive ground focus niche.

I don't think no jumps would be possible in a Smash setting. Hell, it was the reason why Sakurai didn't put Excitebiker in Melee (couldn't think of how he could jump logically but that's kind of stupid because I can but anyway). Plus, Smash isn't canon, so Captain Toad doesn't need to not jump, and yes its a part of his character but I see it as a problem.

 

[Spinda654]

Maybe just make Captain Toad have the lowest jumps in the game, and one of the fastest fall speeds, and make him a slow heavyweight. And give him a stupidly good recover, using a Windmill Platform to help him get back onto the stage.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Maybe just make Captain Toad have the lowest jumps in the game, and one of the fastest fall speeds, and make him a slow heavyweight. And give him a stupidly good recover, using a Windmill Platform to help him get back onto the stage.

This seems like a good compromise.

 

[Spinda654]

This seems like a good compromise.

Make full moveset around this concept?

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Make full moveset around this concept?

Are you asking me to do this. I'm all for making movesets, but they just take so long to make. Just use @ WeirdChillFever and @ Munomario777 's stuff.

 

[Spinda654]

Are you asking me to do this. I'm all for making movesets, but they just take so long to make. Just use @ WeirdChillFever and @ Munomario777 's stuff.

I meant me, but you can do one too if you'd like. Much like you, I'm all up for moveset making.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

I meant me, but you can do one too if you'd like. Much like you, I'm all up for moveset making.

I'm not making a moveset for Captain Toad, I've been trying to figure out a moveset for Donbe and Hikari for the longest time anyway.

 

[Krayon Kaphonie]

Wait, so would guys even be upset if daisy got in before him? By the look of it, you guys seem like you don't want him that much. O.o but anyway, I came here to say that I'm planning on making 1st party Smash Ballot Comic on miiverse in the smash community and I planned on Toad being one of the major supporting characters

I feel like Toad deserves to be in smash cause he's always forced to being playable but not playable in smash? I feel like that's unfair :/

 

[Munomario777]

Wait, so would guys even be upset if daisy got in before him? By the look of it, you guys seem like you don't want him that much. O.o but anyway, I came here to say that I'm planning on making 1st party Smash Ballot Comic on miiverse in the smash community and I planned on Toad being one of the major supporting characters

I feel like Toad deserves to be in smash cause he's always forced to being playable but not playable in smash? I feel like that's unfair :/

I'd be pretty ticked off if Daisy got in before Captain Toad to be honest. I'm a more indifferent on regular Toad though.

 

[Krayon Kaphonie]

I'd be pretty ticked off if Daisy got in before Captain Toad to be honest. I'm a more indifferent on regular Toad though.

Yeah even though I want to play as Daisy. Toad has a right to be in before her or any other mario character. He's one of the most recognizable characters in mario.. just feels weird not seeing him in smash but as a special move for peach. :l

I really don't want nintendo to give him a lame moveset when he could be a fun character to play as with his mining stuff

 

[YoshiandToad]

Wait, so would guys even be upset if daisy got in before him? By the look of it, you guys seem like you don't want him that much. O.o

I don't mind Daisy, don't get me wrong...but Toad should have been in before Bowser Jr, the Koopalings and Rosalina having been a character who came from as far back as the NES days, who had his own game in the past(Wario's Woods) and now a brand new one(Captain Toad; Treasure Tracker) and one of the most famous characters on the planet.
Daisy in comparison hasn't had any games to call her own so it seems a bit of an odd choice to pick her over the one who was deemed popular enough to star in the latest Mario spinoff. Hence my annoyance if she does get in before him. If they both get in I'll be overjoyed though. I do like Daisy, but Toad's a more pressing concern for me right now.

If Daisy, Paper Mario, Nabbit or Waluigi get in before him, I will be annoyed. I will probably flip a table. Possibly two tables. Paper and Daisy are still very real Mario rivals too. After Toad gets in? Bring them on. I am a Mario fan after all.

If Geno gets in before him, I will give up on the series and Nintendo in general. **** it I am out. Thank you for Captain Toad Treasure Tracker, that was freaking fantastic, but this is BS. The fact Doctor Mario is still a character and Toad is not is BS. No matter how much you dislike Toad you've got to admit Toad as even a Mario clone has more substance than Mario in a labcoat as a Mario clone.

We've waited as long as the K. Rool and Ridley fans have, we're just hindered by

1. People hating on Toad("His voice is annoying")
   
2. Those thinking he's best suited in his current position("That's all he deserves because I don't like him")
   
3. Those that grew up in the N64-GCN eras where Toad was mostly ignored by Nintendo despite him getting decent attention in the NES-SNES, Wii and Wii U eras thus have no childhood relationship with the character like the older and younger generations do. Sadly the majority of Smashboards it seems.
   
4. Those who don't want any more Mario characters on the roster ("I think Toad would be great, but we really need Doshin the Giant right now, his series hasn't gotten any love").

As you can see; we can be passionate; pre-Rosalina reveal we were quite the firecrackers over in the Toad thread but everytime Toad or Captain Toad gets brought up outside this thread these days, the majority respond with indifference, "lawl can't jump", "2manyMarios" or change the subject to their character of choice again.

Whew; got a little heated there. Sorry about that!

but anyway, I came here to say that I'm planning on making 1st party Smash Ballot Comic on miiverse in the smash community and I planned on Toad being one of the major supporting characters

I feel like Toad deserves to be in smash cause he's always forced to being playable but not playable in smash? I feel like that's unfair :/

Weirdly I had a very similar idea last month with the characters who didn't make it into Smash as playable fighters hanging out together.
I look forward to reading it; feel free to post some comics in here and a link to them too. I'm sure we'd love to read about your story.

That last part is probably what hurts the most; he's essentially 'Player 4' yet gets skipped over for Mario in a labcoat, Bowser's bratty son(although admittedly this is probably my favourite Sm4sh newcomer thus far) and their current darling of the moment; Rosalina, AKA 'Player 5' from 3D World. Tsk.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Wait, so would guys even be upset if daisy got in before him? By the look of it, you guys seem like you don't want him that much.

But Daisy's already in the game, as a Peach alt...
jk but I would be a bit ticked off that Daisy got in first. Also where did you get the idea that we don't want him a whole lot, because this thread isn't one of the threads that's bursting with activity.

The fact Doctor Mario is still a character and Toad is not is BS. No matter how much you dislike Toad you've got to admit Toad as even a Mario clone has more substance than Mario in a labcoat as a Mario clone.

Truth.

Those that grew up in the N64-GCN eras where Toad was mostly ignored by Nintendo despite him getting decent attention in the NES-SNES, Wii and Wii U eras thus have no childhood relationship with the character like the older and younger generations do. Sadly the majority of Smashboards it seems.

I grew up on the GCN era and I always thought Toad/Captain Toad was worthy of getting in Smash.

Those who don't want any more Mario characters on the roster ("I think Toad would be great, but we really need Doshin the Giant right now, his series hasn't gotten any love").

#DoshintheGiant4Smash

 

[Geno Boost]

If Geno gets in before him, I will give up on the series and Nintendo in general. **** it I am out.

people in brawl days said the same thing when R.O.B. was leaked.
"if R.O.B. gets in before mah favorite character i will kill sakurai and leave Nintendo games and wont buy SSBB"
its just a game.

 

[YoshiandToad]

people in brawl days said the same thing when R.O.B. was leaked.
"if R.O.B. gets in before mah favorite character i will kill sakurai and leave Nintendo games and wont buy SSBB"
its just a game.

I'm aware Geno is your favourite character so I will pre-emptively apologise as some of this may sound a little rude.

I wouldn't kill Sakurai(although nor would anyone else who gives a statement like that).

I will however seriously question both him and whatever Nintendo CEO thought pushing the barely memorable puppet partner in a RPG from nearly twenty years ago over the world famous mushroom man with two spinoffs and multiple playable appearances dating from the NES to current Wii U era was the best idea for sales as it seems needlessly risky when there's far bigger stars in the Mario franchise than ol' Geno. Like any of the others I mentioned; Daisy, Waluigi, Paper Mario, Nabbit and of course; Toad.

I am afraid also that Geno's inclusion over Toad would be the thing that would push me over the edge and not bother with Smash and maybe even Nintendo for this.
Had Geno been a major character in Mario with Mario Kart/Party/Tennis/Golf or indeed a major appearance in a Mario platformer I would be far more accepting...probably even a passive supporter in fact, but as it is Geno's clearly not a major character of the series.
To include Geno before someone who is supposed to be a major main character within the series, who even managed to get his own spinoff game recently, would come off as a massive slap in the face of many a Mario fan.

As for leaving Smash after Smash 4's DLC comes out...well I've given the series slightly over 15 years to include this famous Nintendo character now so I guess I can wait one more game considering they tend to have a lot of the newcomers from the previous console's line up. Toad's done wonders on the Wii U with Treasure Tracker and Super Mario 3D World after all.
If Toad doesn't get in next time after the success of Captain Toad Treasure Tracker on the Wii U, Sakurai clearly has some sort of problem with the character which I hope he addresses.

 

[fogbadge]

Wait, so would guys even be upset if daisy got in before him?

you have no idea the fury thatd unleash in me

 

[Geno Boost]

I'm aware Geno is your favourite character so I will pre-emptively apologise as some of this may sound a little rude.

I wouldn't kill Sakurai(although nor would anyone else who gives a statement like that).

I will however seriously question both him and whatever Nintendo CEO thought pushing the barely memorable puppet partner in a RPG from nearly twenty years ago over the world famous mushroom man with two spinoffs and multiple playable appearances dating from the NES to current Wii U era was the best idea for sales as it seems needlessly risky when there's far bigger stars in the Mario franchise than ol' Geno. Like any of the others I mentioned; Daisy, Waluigi, Paper Mario, Nabbit and of course; Toad.

I am afraid also that Geno's inclusion over Toad would be the thing that would push me over the edge and not bother with Smash and maybe even Nintendo for this.
Had Geno been a major character in Mario with Mario Kart/Party/Tennis/Golf or indeed a major appearance in a Mario platformer I would be far more accepting...probably even a passive supporter in fact, but as it is Geno's clearly not a major character of the series.
To include Geno before someone who is supposed to be a major main character within the series, who even managed to get his own spinoff game recently, would come off as a massive slap in the face of many a Mario fan.

As for leaving Smash after Smash 4's DLC comes out...well I've given the series slightly over 15 years to include this famous Nintendo character now so I guess I can wait one more game considering they tend to have a lot of the newcomers from the previous console's line up. Toad's done wonders on the Wii U with Treasure Tracker and Super Mario 3D World after all.
If Toad doesn't get in next time after the success of Captain Toad Treasure Tracker on the Wii U, Sakurai clearly has some sort of problem with the character which I hope he addresses.

You waited only 15 years only because of smash?! You don't know the real pain that SMRPG fanbase has, they waited almost 20 years to have at least 1 character to make a comeback in any game (not a freaking cameo).

Look I am sure every Mario character fanbase is happy about what they got from Nintendo (for example Daisy fanbase has their character appear in every new spinoff game) exept SMRPG fanbase are the only fanbase that did get NOTHING since 19 years I am sure the fanbase did beg Nintendo/Square a lot to get what they wanted and I know the fanbase is big to this day.

I am not saying don't request Captain Toad or anything but don't act like Nintendo treated Toad like a trash or forgot about his existence Like the SMRPG fanbase, the Toad fanbase is lucky to have Toad in a lot of games.

 

[Munomario777]

You waited only 15 years only because of smash?! You don't know the real pain that SMRPG fanbase has, they waited almost 20 years to have at least 1 character to make a comeback in any game (not a freaking cameo).

Look I am sure every Mario character fanbase is happy about what they got from Nintendo (for example Daisy fanbase has their character appear in every new spinoff game) exept SMRPG fanbase are the only fanbase that did get NOTHING since 19 years I am sure the fanbase did beg Nintendo/Square a lot to get what they wanted and I know the fanbase is big to this day.

I am not saying don't request Captain Toad or anything but don't act like Nintendo treated Toad like a trash or forgot about his existence.

The fact that Geno was a one-off character with no other appearances since is the very reason that he wouldn't be included in Smash. If Nintendo wants to use Smash as a platform for cross-promotion (which they most certainly have been doing), it would make more sense to include a relevant character than one that hasn't appeared in a game for years upon years.

I'd also like to clarify that I'm not talking about preferences or anything here. You like Geno. There is absolutely no problem with that. Preferences are preferences, opinions are opinions. You have yours, and I have mine. I'm talking about business sense and objective relevance here (and I'm under the impression that YoshiandToad is as well). Subjectively, you (and others) like Geno, so he's relevant to you. Objectively, Geno hasn't appeared in a game in years, so he is no longer relevant, and thus not the best candidate for being in Smash; that is, he won't garner much attention for Smash as he's no longer relevant, and he won't promote anything else (like how Captain Toad would promote his own game) because he hasn't appeared in anything to promote.

 

[YoshiandToad]

You waited only 15 years only because of smash?! You don't know the real pain that SMRPG fanbase has, they waited almost 20 years to have at least 1 character to make a comeback in any game (not a freaking cameo).

Look I am sure every Mario character fanbase is happy about what they got from Nintendo (for example Daisy fanbase has their character appear in every new spinoff game) exept SMRPG fanbase are the only fanbase that did get NOTHING since 19 years I am sure the fanbase did beg Nintendo/Square a lot to get what they wanted and I know the fanbase is big to this day.

I am not saying don't request Captain Toad or anything but don't act like Nintendo treated Toad like a trash or forgot about his existence Like the SMRPG fanbase, your fanbase is lucky to have Toad in a lot of games

I'd also like to clarify that I'm not talking about preferences or anything here. You like Geno. There is absolutely no problem with that. Preferences are preferences, opinions are opinions. You have yours, and I have mine. I'm talking about business sense and objective relevance here (and I'm under the impression that YoshiandToad is as well). Subjectively, you (and others) like Geno, so he's relevant to you. Objectively, Geno hasn't appeared in a game in years, so he is no longer relevant, and thus not the best candidate for being in Smash; that is, he won't garner much attention for Smash as he's no longer relevant, and he won't promote anything else (like how Captain Toad would promote his own game) because he hasn't appeared in anything to promote.

This is very much what I was getting at, thank you for putting it eloquently Munomario777.

@ Geno Boost ; are there any movements to get Geno and Mallow in the likes of Mario Kart for example? I only ever hear Geno(and only Geno; would of thought support would exist for Mallow too) for Super Smash Bros. and that was mostly after that Japanese poll included him and Sakurai commented on how 'surprising' he was.

I'd actually be genuinely willing to support a movement to reintroduce Geno and Mallow into the Mario series, but not through Smash. I feel like a character needs to be a big deal in their own series to get into Smash rather than them becoming a big deal through Smash to get back into their regular series. It's one of the reasons I personally don't support K. Rool for Sm4sh, but would support K. Rool for the next DK game to return to his game series first.

 

[Geno Boost]

i am not talking about Geno chances or anything like that.
i am just saying:
"don't act crazy if you didnt get what you wanted but the company cared about other stuff about the character that you liked in different ways, it might be not 100% the same about what you wanted but they showed that they know about his existence and didnt treat the character like a trash"

 

[YoshiandToad]

i am not talking about Geno chances or anything like that.
i am just saying:
"don't act crazy if you didnt get what you wanted but the company cared about other stuff about the character that you liked in different ways, it might be not 100% the same about what you wanted but they showed that they know about his existence and didnt treat the character like a trash"

But he IS treated like trash. That's why we're pissed:

Our character is a meatshield. He's literally a punch bag shield used by a very out-of-character Princess Peach. I'm not sure how you can give any character a trashier treatment than what he currently has.

At least being an AT, Pokeball summon, Boss character or something like Luma allows you to actually fight the enemy, but Toad is essentially a hostage who Peach uses to block deadly attacks aimed at her and nothing else...a role that could just as easily be fulfilled with her holding her frying pan in front of her face, or her parasol.

Sorry, I feel our complaints at his portrayal are well justified. He is treated like trash in this series, and we are fed up of it.

Toad being removed as an attack and not appearing in Smash at all is preferable to this treatment for crying out loud.