Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

[perfectchaos83]

There are very few characters I'd say are disappointing to be added. Steve is at the very top of that list.

sigh

 

[zriL]

Quite an expected choice in the end, and a deserving one. Also a good pick if it was meant for E3. And so they had simply forgotten to mention the "brief message" from Sakurai in the Japanese tweet.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

There are very few characters I'd say are disappointing to be added. Steve is at the very top of that list.

sigh

I'm right there with you. He's exactly as ugly and out of place as I thought he'd be.

Can I really complain though? Minecraft is the best selling game ever, beloved by untold millions for over a decade. Is it right for me to fault Nintendo for a sound fiscal and fan-pleasing addition, that even Nintendo employees and Sakurai wanted?

It's not Reimu or Marisa, so, yes.

 

[TheKnight]

Not disappointed at all. Minecraft deserves this 100%, and I'm all for it. Hopefully Reimu shows up soon!

 

[Lichzim]

With Steve in. I can now fully dedicate my support to Reimu Hakurei. I hope Gensokyo's own Shrine Maiden of Paradise can make it into smash. :D

 

[PurpleXCompleX]

Oh well, It was only a matter of time until that got announced.
Hey with that out of the way I'm still positive for any of the upcoming DLCs.
Just sucks that its gonna be a long time again till then.

Shoutouts to Vergeben btw.

 

[SharkLord]

Steve is in Smash

I have no issues with this

 

[perfectchaos83]

I'm right there with you. He's exactly as ugly and out of place as I thought he'd be.

This is precisely why I think it's a bit disappointing. Authentic or not, it just looks awful.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

This is precisely why I think it's a bit disappointing. Authentic or not, it just looks awful.

There's no fixing this issue unfortunately. It's either the og blocky out of place look, a gaudy saturated blocky look, or nightmare Steve.

I'm ready for FP8, and I am not looking forward to the Mii costume massacre this time around.

 

[zferolie]

While he wasnt my top pick, steve and minecraft deserve to be in smash, more then any other 3rd party honestly. Minecraft is the biggest game of all time, and is still supported and highly loved by millions of people. That alone is enough to get into smash.

And i love how much sakurai kept steve looking and acting like hes still in minecraft. Those awakward movements and all lol

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

With Minecraft in Smash I have no reason to believe why Touhou wouldn't be in
Minecraft is extremely popular worldwide, but also a lot in Japan, so I see it as a positive for Reimu

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

I love wacky characters so I'm satisfied with Steve.
Nintendo clearly tries to approach more to young audience so I'm being more confident on Touhou representation in some form.

 

[Blankiturayman]

While I'm not too enthused about the pick myself, I think this one was good for Reimu depending on how you see it due to Minecraft's origins. Well, we'll see how that goes.

 

[Lyncario]

Welp, seems like my heart was wrong. Oh well, there's 4 spots in the fighter pass and I still find Steve cool.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

So if Steve was really planned 3 years ago...
Remember the very first Reimu leak was from November 2018, about the same time as the Hayabusa leak.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

So if Steve was really planned 3 years ago...
Remember the very first Reimu leak was from November 2018, about the same time as the Hayabusa leak.

Depending on which one you're talking about, it may have been confirmed a hoax already, those are surprisingly numerous. idk for sure though.

Regardless, I remain skeptical. Would love to be proven wrong tho.

idk if it's been the long road of speculation, or I got up on the wrong side of the bed, but I'm not hopeful at the moment.

 

[SharkLord]

So if Steve was really planned 3 years ago...
Remember the very first Reimu leak was from November 2018, about the same time as the Hayabusa leak.

I'm not sure if Steve was decided three years in advance. Negotiations could've happened, but I don't think they were finalized until a bit more recently.

 

[TheTuninator]

Well, wouldja look at that! I'm not really a fan of Steve since the character is almost completely devoid of personality, but it's undeniable that Minecraft more than deserves a spot and I'm sure he'll play well. Looking forward to whoever gets announced next!

 

[Dukefire]

We will get more Mii costumes and an in depth look at Steve and Alex moveset this Saturday

 

[GSun]

Did the lethal impress really complain the land?

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Spoiler

It ain't her. It was Steve, from Minecraft.

I want both Steve and Reimu to be playable.

Of course, I find it interesting how Touhou hasn't had any representation at all despite being vastly more popular than Minecraft and Undertale combined in Japan. Sakurai mentioned in the presentation how Nintendo chose the DLC initially, so assuming Nintendo wants to make more FP2 sales, they'll want to include Reimu due to her enormous popularity in Japan. Especially to boost their sales before the fiscal year ends in March 31st 2021 to make up for COVID.

I can already envision that, but I still fear Reimu's inclusion suffering negative reception due to ignorance, which I've already mentioned earlier.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

EDIT: Can a mod please delete this post for me.

 

[TheTuninator]

Steve has always been my second most wanted for Smash behind Reimu so I'm definitely glad and overwhelmingly happy that he got in. So personally this is one of my favourite character hands down that's been added ever to the Smash roster, right up there with Sans (even though he's a mii-me).

From a Touhou standpoint I see Minecraft's inclusion as a net positive since it'll bring Minecraft's large fan base into Smash for more popularity. That way, if Reimu gets added eventually down the line, it'll get much more attention. Especially from western audiences who may not know her that well.

Of course, I find it interesting how Touhou hasn't had any representation at all despite being vastly more popular than Minecraft and Undertale combined in Japan. Sakurai mentioned in the presentation how Nintendo chose the DLC initially, so assuming Nintendo wants to make more FP2 sales, they'll want to include Reimu due to her enormous popularity in Japan. Especially to boost their sales before the fiscal year ends in March 31st 2021 to make up for COVID.

ZUN himself said that Undertale was bigger than Touhou in Japan, so I don't think this is entirely accurate.

 

[SharkLord]

ZUN himself said that Undertale was bigger than Touhou in Japan, so I don't think this is entirely accurate.

Wait, really? When did this happen?

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I can already envision that, but I still fear Reimu's inclusion suffering negative reception due to ignorance, which I've already mentioned earlier.

To be fair, there's only very few characters who won't get a negative reception due to ignorance now. Steve is one of the few I could think of and his polarizing reception so far is for entirely different reasons. Smash fandom usually has a very narrow scope and an echo chamber of characters for whatever reason. Hell, a lot of people dismissed Steve as a possibility because Banjo was in and now look.


I doubt Reimu will get Mii costumed in Steves presentation simply because other than "Indie"(Which I don't think Steve counts now) there ain't much of a connection there. I'd be surprised if we do get a mii costume of her, though.

Though I imagine in a way, Reimu can be seen as a counterpart to Steve. I don't think Steves inclusion affected anything with Reimu, though.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

To be fair, there's only very few characters who won't get a negative reception due to ignorance now. Steve is one of the few I could think of and his polarizing reception so far is for entirely different reasons. Smash fandom usually has a very narrow scope and an echo chamber of characters for whatever reason. Hell, a lot of people dismissed Steve as a possibility because Banjo was in and now look.


I doubt Reimu will get Mii costumed in Steves presentation simply because other than "Indie"(Which I don't think Steve counts now) there ain't much of a connection there. I'd be surprised if we do get a mii costume of her, though.

Though I imagine in a way, Reimu can be seen as a counterpart to Steve. I don't think Steves inclusion affected anything with Reimu, though.

I kind of see Reimu Mii coming with Minecraft tho. For Japanese kids, Minecraft and Yukkuri being together isn't a strange view.

 

[Blankiturayman]

I kind of see Reimu Mii coming with Minecraft tho. For Japanese kids, Minecraft and Yukkuri being together isn't a strange view.

I certainly wouldn't expect that one, but hey, even if Reimu got just a Mii in I'd take it, any representation would be really cool. Of course though, I'd prefer her as a fighter but if it can't happen then I guess it just doesn't.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

To be fair, there's only very few characters who won't get a negative reception due to ignorance now. Steve is one of the few I could think of and his polarizing reception so far is for entirely different reasons. Smash fandom usually has a very narrow scope and an echo chamber of characters for whatever reason. Hell, a lot of people dismissed Steve as a possibility because Banjo was in and now look.

If Reimu does make it in, would more people be happy or sad to see Reimu and Terry (King of Fighters) get demoted to assist trophies in Smash 6 all because of ignorance?

 

[BernkastelWitch]

If Reimu does make it in, would more people be happy or sad to see Reimu and Terry (King of Fighters) get demoted to assist trophies in Smash 6 all because of ignorance?

View attachment 287888[

These are the same people who thought Dragon Quest was obscure so I don't take them seriously or I try to enlighten them. Honestly most of this is usually a sign of versed some people are into gaming. You got your people who only played Pokemon, Mario, Minecraft and that is it while you have people who played hundreds of franchises of various kinds. It explains why characters like Reimu can be seen as polarizing: Some people haven't experienced much games beyond a certain scope and others have.

I certainly wouldn't expect that one, but hey, even if Reimu got just a Mii in I'd take it, any representation would be really cool. Of course though, I'd prefer her as a fighter but if it can't happen then I guess it just doesn't.

While I doubt we'll get a Reimu Mii Costume, if that was the only choice we had I'd accept it. It's at least one way we'd get Touhou in Smash. Reimu as a playable character would be preferred and in hindsight, isn't the most ridiculous either idea but if it's a Mii costume then it's the second best option.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

While I doubt we'll get a Reimu Mii Costume, if that was the only choice we had I'd accept it. It's at least one way we'd get Touhou in Smash. Reimu as a playable character would be preferred and in hindsight, isn't the most ridiculous either idea but if it's a Mii costume then it's the second best option.

Reimu definitely doesn't deserve to be excluded from the roster.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Reimu definitely doesn't deserve to be excluded from the roster.

She really doesn't. Touhou has a strong legacy to at least be considered, despite peoples counterclaims of being "to niche". And it's a positive for a series like it to get into Smash.

If anything, putting Reimu after Steve will bring in some good diversity for the Fighters pass that a lot of people would enjoy. Catering to different markets in one pass would help a lot.

 

[Soulor]

Steve getting in is pretty cool. The stage looks so good and his moveset looks interesting. The music sounds great too! Glad another true gaming icon is in.

Reminds me of this nice little video. Good times, so sad...

Anyways, wonder how long till the next reveal? Let's go HALLOWEEN!

 

[GSun]

The coarse go detects into the kind pen.

 

[GolisoPower]

One of the co-founders of Minecraft just said that they've been trying to get Steve in Smash for at least 5 years since 2014. This is interesting because September 15th 2014 was when it was announced that Microsoft acquired Mojang.

https://twitter.com/Kappische/status/1311773807175180296

It's been around a year since ZUN mentioned in the infamous interview about wanting Reimu in Smash. Of course, this doesn't give us too much to go off of on how long Reimu has been in discussion.

Though, I believe that if Reimu was brought up to the Smash team that discussions wouldn't take as long as Minecraft Steve, since.
1) Microsoft is a big company so decisions in general are slower. Plus, they know the reputation that Minecraft has, so I imagine they'd be very particular about the moveset.
2) Steve's design is drastically different compared to the rest of the Smash cast. In gameplay as well, as Sakurai stated, he needed a lot of advanced mechanics designed exclusively for him.
3) Reimu is more of her own character with her own moveset who literally appears in fighting games.

Also, at the end of the Byleth direct where Sakurai announced Fighter Pass 2, 35:08 timestamp, he stated that "1 or 2 extra fighters might suffice". In terms of numbered characters in the fighter's pass, we have reached that point. However, these "1 or 2 extra fighters" might not be Min Min and Steve. Steve seems guaranteed based on the above information in my post, since he was in the works for so long, but who was the other guaranteed character? Do you think ZUN and Nintendo have been working recently around the same timeframe as the above interview? Or do you think that ZUN has had this in the works for a long time?

Spoiler: Byleth Presentation, go to timestamp 35:08

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate – Mr. Sakurai Presents "Byleth"

Join Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Director Masahiro Sakurai for an in-depth look at the new fighter Byleth in this new video presentation! Subscribe for more N...

www.youtube.com

Another thing to point out with this is that unlike some small indie developer where negotiations are usually still long, like Sans or Cuphead, ZUN's also:

1) A one-man developer of an entire franchise, much like Toby Fox.
2) A person who's so lax with his copyrights that people sell Touhou fangames on online eShops. Hell, there are a few on Nintendo's right now.

So if anything, those two combined, negotiations could go through in record time. I don't know how long negotiations usually last on average, but considering those details with ZUN, and the details about the Smash team bringing up Reimu you provided, she'd probably be the quickest character in FP2 to develop, in comparison to Steve's terraforming and Min Min's stretchy arms. Now as to whether or not she's just as complex is up in the air, but regardless, Reimu should be efficient in terms of adding her from negotiations all the way to reveal/release.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

She really doesn't. Touhou has a strong legacy to at least be considered, despite peoples counterclaims of being "to niche". And it's a positive for a series like it to get into Smash.

I've been aware of those misconceptions for a while already. Not to mention, Bomberman, Crash Bandicoot, Rayman, and Steve aren't the only characters who should never be excluded from the roster.

What is the videogame in that video above?

While I doubt we'll get a Reimu Mii Costume, if that was the only choice we had I'd accept it. It's at least one way we'd get Touhou in Smash. Reimu as a playable character would be preferred and in hindsight, isn't the most ridiculous either idea but if it's a Mii costume then it's the second best option.

Actually, the 2nd best option is not being an assist trophy, because while it doesn't mean Reimu will be playable, it saves her opportunity to be playable.

 

[Soulor]

I think it's Dragon Quest Builders 2 or some blatant ripoff.

 

[7NATOR]

One of the co-founders of Minecraft just said that they've been trying to get Steve in Smash for at least 5 years since 2014. This is interesting because September 15th 2014 was when it was announced that Microsoft acquired Mojang.

https://twitter.com/Kappische/status/1311773807175180296

It's been around a year since ZUN mentioned in the infamous interview about wanting Reimu in Smash. Of course, this doesn't give us too much to go off of on how long Reimu has been in discussion.

Though, I believe that if Reimu was brought up to the Smash team that discussions wouldn't take as long as Minecraft Steve, since.
1) Microsoft is a big company so decisions in general are slower. Plus, they know the reputation that Minecraft has, so I imagine they'd be very particular about the moveset.
2) Steve's design is drastically different compared to the rest of the Smash cast. In gameplay as well, as Sakurai stated, he needed a lot of advanced mechanics designed exclusively for him.
3) Reimu is more of her own character with her own moveset who literally appears in fighting games.

Also, at the end of the Byleth direct where Sakurai announced Fighter Pass 2, 35:08 timestamp, he stated that "1 or 2 extra fighters might suffice". In terms of numbered characters in the fighter's pass, we have reached that point. However, these "1 or 2 extra fighters" might not be Min Min and Steve. Steve seems guaranteed based on the above information in my post, since he was in the works for so long, but who was the other guaranteed character? Do you think ZUN and Nintendo have been working recently around the same timeframe as the above interview? Or do you think that ZUN has had this in the works for a long time?

Spoiler: Byleth Presentation, go to timestamp 35:08

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate – Mr. Sakurai Presents "Byleth"

Join Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Director Masahiro Sakurai for an in-depth look at the new fighter Byleth in this new video presentation! Subscribe for more N...

www.youtube.com

Another thing to point out with this is that unlike some small indie developer where negotiations are usually still long, like Sans or Cuphead, ZUN's also:

1) A one-man developer of an entire franchise, much like Toby Fox.
2) A person who's so lax with his copyrights that people sell Touhou fangames on online eShops. Hell, there are a few on Nintendo's right now.

So if anything, those two combined, negotiations could go through in record time. I don't know how long negotiations usually last on average, but considering those details with ZUN, and the details about the Smash team bringing up Reimu you provided, she'd probably be the quickest character in FP2 to develop, in comparison to Steve's terraforming and Min Min's stretchy arms. Now as to whether or not she's just as complex is up in the air, but regardless, Reimu should be efficient in terms of adding her from negotiations all the way to reveal/release.

Reading all this, I would add

-Wasn't 2015 around the time that Nintendo Sold Touhou Music or something like that, I remember reading something like that, so it's interesting

-Microsoft/Mojiang aren't Native Speakers (Relative to Sakurai), Zun is however, so that'll make things go more smoothly as well

Though the other thing I would say is if that "1 or 2 extra characters" was a thing, I think that could also Apply to Ryu Hayabusa, considering rumors surrounding him and Koei's and Nintendo's Great Relationship

It also seems alot of the issues was actually implementing Steve (Especially from Programming Standpoint). It might be possible that FP2's greenlit was why they were able to go back and realize Steve for real this time, but if that "1 or 2 Extra" characters meant there were always gonna be Extra fighters after the pass, it's possible that It might not apply Steve.

I don't know. I just know that Steve's inclusion and everything surrounding him Benefits Reimu (Especially if she doesn't show up as costume on Saturday)

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I think it's Dragon Quest Builders 2 or some blatant ripoff.

It can't be Dragon Quest Builders 2, that video was made back in October 2017, Dragon Quest Builders 2 only released in December 2018. So I think it must be some Minecraft mod.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

While interesting, I hardly see how a 5-6 year negotiation process for Steve is relevant for Reimu. For one thing, there's no conformation yet afaik if these were serious negotiation or informal suggestions. More pertinently, there are a litany of differences in circumstance for negotiation between Steve and (potentially) Reimu, namely scale of the company (Mojang was bought by Microsoft at this point), language barrier and general ease of communication, and Nintendo involvement. I think it's best to view the events leading to a characters inclusion as unique, not as prescriptive of future inclusions. Sure there are generalities to be taken away, but those should be readily apparent across the cast, and new "rules" should be taken up cautiously until a pattern emerges.

Specifically, the potential 6 year turnaround on Steve should be taken as a maximum not a minimum time spent.

As for Reimu, there isn't much to go on right now. If you take the doujin rumor at face value (which you shouldn't) Reimu may have entered negotiations in 2018. If you think ZUN meant in the interview where he said he wanted Reimu in smash that he hadn't approached Nintendo yet, then Reimu can't have been considered by Sakurai/Nintendo until at least May 2019. That isn't all that much time to finish negotiation, but we do know that Fighters Pass 2 probably wasn't finalized until about October 2019. Steve is clearly an outlier in this regard, but it would be interesting to compare negotiation-to-release times for other third parties, if those are known.

My two cents: since I think ZUN is sincere that he didn't talk with Nintendo by April 2019, I think that gives Reimu very little time to even be considered, let alone chosen. Therefore, I think her chances are low, lower than I've thought in a while. If she does make it, she'll be towards the back end of Fighters Pass 2, maybe CP10 or 11.

 

[Soulor]

It can't be Dragon Quest Builders 2, that video was made back in October 2017, Dragon Quest Builders 2 only released in December 2018. So I think it must be some Minecraft mod.

Haha yeah, I'm just joking.

Yes, it is Minecraft.

Utilising many mods, such as Touhou mods which add in many things like spellcards and special mobs and items and many other things, along with a "custom steve" mod to change your in game model to many other models that are supported, the user set out to create a storyline where the characters of Touhou find themselves suddenly in the world of Minecraft.

I found it very interesting and unlike anything else I've seen. Sadly, it'll never reach it's conclusion, and it was so close too...