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Showcase of Power v3.6: The Ganondorf Video Thread

CORY

wut
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you overuse aerial flame choke and dair in neutral. you land the dair more often, but you can do much better things out of many punish or neutral setups. near the end of the first game you WAY overused wizkick. you were fishing for it way too hard. try to break that habit and only use it for punishes that you can get a reliable read on. i like your use of wizkick-float-jump in recovery, probably the best way to use it in that situation.

speaking of punishes: you can chain grab falcon to a decent percent (i want to say 60-70, but i don't have hard numbers on it), so you could go for that when you land grabs. he falls pretty quickly, so your usual followups out of dthrow don't work too well (namely, the aerials) but you can probably land a d or ftilt, maybe utilt if you call him on diing behind you and he doesn't tech because he expects you to regrab.
 

Russy

Russydorf of Cincy
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you overuse aerial flame choke and dair in neutral. you land the dair more often, but you can do much better things out of many punish or neutral setups. near the end of the first game you WAY overused wizkick. you were fishing for it way too hard. try to break that habit and only use it for punishes that you can get a reliable read on. i like your use of wizkick-float-jump in recovery, probably the best way to use it in that situation.

speaking of punishes: you can chain grab falcon to a decent percent (i want to say 60-70, but i don't have hard numbers on it), so you could go for that when you land grabs. he falls pretty quickly, so your usual followups out of dthrow don't work too well (namely, the aerials) but you can probably land a d or ftilt, maybe utilt if you call him on diing behind you and he doesn't tech because he expects you to regrab.
yeah, after watching it i saw that I was fishing for FC and WF too much, it's one of the many trash habits that I have. I've tried chaingrabbing falcon alot but I can never get the regrab if the DI is there at all, and this is from someone who consistently chain grabs spacies to at least 45-50%
 

CORY

wut
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yeah, it's hard to break the wizkick/choke habit, but it's really good to do it ;x my loss rate went way down when i did it : p

and hrmmmm... at the falcon chain grabbing. i'll look into it the next time i get to play someone. one thing i've noticed is that the "correct" di is behind ganon, so i've started to just watch if they start to fly behind me after the throw, then react, rather than try to be ready and watch all of the options. if they move forward, you'll have an easier time correcting where you're going.

it's hard to explain, but once i started doing that, my dthrow chain followups improved a ton.
 

Russy

Russydorf of Cincy
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Shame about the flubs but that was a really exciting match! You had some great DI, making sure that you didn't get hit by those knees. Maybe you should consider adding more wavelands on platforms into your style to create more mixups?
I try not to waveland too much because after a certain point it becomes unnecessary movement that can just be punished easily
 

Kr0sS

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 23, 2014
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Dalton, GA
I only watched your first set, so I'm basing this post on that:

First of all, I love your consistency with DACUS. It's quite enviable.
Secondly, this is how I felt watching your Ganon dittos, when one would try to FC while the other AFC'd.

12:52 - LOL! I've never seen a Dair wall spike like that.

One of the biggest things I noticed was that you never attempted to finish the job, once you got'em off the ledge. We have Deadman's Drift. We can hover over, aerial, and safely make it back with out much worry.

Instead of double jumping so much, just hover, and then double jump if necessary. That tool is there for that reason and so much more.

Overall, it was enjoyable to watch, and I think you should've took that set 2-0, though.
Thanks! I appreciate the compliments.

Honestly, I feel I should have taken that 2-0 also. Astro doesn't really play Ganondorf but is a better technical player than me. I also tend to struggle with dittos a bit. I've spent a lot of time working on improving my technical skill. My DACUS has gotten better but still isn't as consistent as I'd like and my L-canceling tends to hold steady on average at around 45-55%.

My biggest struggle is with the neutral game and finishing stocks. Really I'm just not sure how deep to go for things and haven't really gotten a feel for how aggressive I can be off stage without risking a stock myself. The neutral is a bigger struggle. I have a hard time against anything except matchups I'm very familiar with. Part of why I've finished 5th these last two weeks has just been losing enough to know the MU.
 

Hungry Headcrab

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Even more stuff.

12/23/14 ePG Weekly:

vs. Bladewise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64y1B--UlrM

12/30/14 ePG Weekly:

vs. Bladewise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2hkb3WKI_I
vs. Bladewise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6SvhxtknoA

1/8/15 ePG Monthly:

vs. Silent Wolf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPzxu4p8Bg
vs. Mike Lau: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApnFj7dtn9w
vs. Iceman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIKkyRlCe5A
vs. Punk Panda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMZU2XXoiRU
vs. Silent Wolf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNt_MQbrlSs

1/20/15 ePG Weekly:

vs. Hadoken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnxzBouAEY8
vs. JuSt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vqrvpd7YXM
vs. Seibrik: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbqBr2YZEZM
vs. Bladewise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovHNLQvlDWU

Critiques if you please, though I'm gonna john and tell 'yall that I was totes sleep deprived and sick during the monthly, just as a heads up. January GameClucks videos should be up soon as well.
 

Bazkip

Smash Master
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lol dittos

rip me wrecked by holy ;-;
First game could've been close if not for a bunch of stupid mistakes. Just got straight bopped second game. Nerves I guess.
 

Bazkip

Smash Master
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Dec 15, 2013
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How can you stand those commentators :ohwell:
I don't let them commentate important matches, lel
We don't have much in the way of good commentary here though.

Oh I should probably mention that all the fsmashes are not intentional. idk why I keep doing them accidentally, it's such a pain.

Edit: lmao I react so much when I play I should calm down
 
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CORY

wut
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lol dittos

rip me wrecked by holy ;-;
First game could've been close if not for a bunch of stupid mistakes. Just got straight bopped second game. Nerves I guess.
you need to float more so the commentators can learn its true power : p

against shiek ;x yeah, that's rough... it looks like you were losing to approaching nair a lot, which shouldn't be a thing with shiek, she doesn't move that quickly. it looked like (from my perspective, i could be misinterpreting) you would try to react to the fh nair approach with not sh uair/nair and get dinged into a quick combo or tech setup. the tech situation is just abysmal, so you'll have to be really clever to get out of it, or just outright don't let it happen in the first place.

"shiek is a bad character in this game. worse than ganon." are these guys being serial, here?
 

Bazkip

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you need to float more so the commentators can learn its true power : p

against shiek ;x yeah, that's rough... it looks like you were losing to approaching nair a lot, which shouldn't be a thing with shiek, she doesn't move that quickly. it looked like (from my perspective, i could be misinterpreting) you would try to react to the fh nair approach with not sh uair/nair and get dinged into a quick combo or tech setup. the tech situation is just abysmal, so you'll have to be really clever to get out of it, or just outright don't let it happen in the first place.

"shiek is a bad character in this game. worse than ganon." are these guys being serial, here?
Yeah I know I shouldn't just be tossing out fairs/dairs willy nilly, and yet somehow I keep doing it...

It was the commentator on the right that said that, right? He says dumb **** all the time, I think he's trolling cause he is actually good at Smash (top player in our region). Or maybe he just says whatever without thinking. idk.
 

CORY

wut
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yeah, it was the commentator. he was talking about how shiek is just terrible in pm and she wasn't even good in melee and is worse now and i'm all "..."

you weren't even losing a lot to "nair stuffed my fair", tbh. it looked more like "i want to wl here but there's a leg in the way". like, you would react to the jump, but not catch on that he would jump with a nair quite often.
 

Charmilio

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
90
Had my first tournament sets on stream the other day, though I can't say I'm very happy with my play. I'm the Grey Ganon in these sets.

Dopa Aerial Flame Choked me to hell and back, is tech in place/getup attack a reliable way to get out of it? I also did a really dumb aggressive up-b in Game 2 that I was convinced would cost me the stock, there's quite a few moments where I do stupid approaches like that. I honestly think the only reason I came back in Game 3 is because Dopa didn't know the character very well and I was just able to capitalize on some easy kills. also @3:48 channeling my inner bizzarroflame and failing


Nerves really got to me against Tax, so much so that for some reason I made a switch to GnW that I think cost me the set. Only Game 1 is Ganon, so feel free to stop after that. I started off decent, but I think he adapted really quickly against me. Started shielding all of my approaches and grabbing me between hits. I would have tried to space out some more tilts and not approach straight at his face but for some reason I just went on autopilot trying to use kill moves at really low %s. I also flubbed a lot of recoveries, and my Shuffles were ****e.


Any advice is very welcome, I know my play is kind of scrubby but this was my first PM event (edit: that I didn't get knocked out of straightaway) and I learned a lot so I'm really looking forward to hitting the lab again and working on my follow ups, which I think is the weakest part of my game right now.
 
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CORY

wut
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for dealing with the grounded side b tech chases, yeah, he was reacting to your rolls, even when you missed the tech on purpose (?). your best bet is probably to miss a tech and if he's sitting over you, getup attack. if he's not, you can try to set a pattern for rolling away from him a lot, then break it with going behind, but if he can just react to you, it's hard to deal with.

you like to land on stage with upb alot, when you could just as easily go for a sweetspot and be less vulnerable. you lost a stock at least once each game in the ditto to that.

in the first two games, you used dair a bit too much. like, attempting to oos dair as a punish and stuff. i didn't see it outright get you punished, but it's a bad decision that cost you incremental advantage (had you nair'd or something instead, it could've given you a better situation to work with, even if dair hit).

gonna watch the second one now.

edit: against shiek, you roll towards center stage a lot, even as gnw. i'm not sure if you were falling for the b/dthrow di mixups or if ganon's just too fat, but that's something to keep an eye out for. you were taking a lot of damage to dthrow-ftilt-combo as ganon.

edgeguarding shiek, i would reccomend always going for the ledge first. you're not going to hit a shiek out of upb very often, so your best bet is to just take the ledge option away and force mixups on the recovery (do they always go for the stage? will they sometimes try to predict you going on stage to punish and go for the ledge? do they try to react to you? etc...).

you also straight lost a stock to suboptimal punish. it started off bad (you got hit offstage by misspacing a fair, then getting grab-ftiltxn offstage). you turned it around with a lucky flamechoke, but went for the jab followup and missed it. then, you got the next flamechoke off a roll towards you, and went for the jab punish again, which hit. but the fair wasn't so good a followup choice. at that percent, go for a dtilt (safer) or dashattack (should connect at that percent, but not safe if they can block...).

i'd actually say to work on reading for your followups more, tbh. like your opponent in the ditto, maybe even go for more flamechoke followups. it deals 13% on its own and sets up for more tech chases.
 
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| Kailex |

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Just an advice to some of you, when on a ledge, dont always go for a waveland, it gets baited out if used frequently and punished, you can just ledgehop and land on the stage; haxdashing ( if thats what its called) is good too.

Oh and a tech showcase segment? I might give it a try.
 

Charmilio

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for dealing with the grounded side b tech chases, yeah, he was reacting to your rolls, even when you missed the tech on purpose (?)[totally not intentional, but you can bet it will be in the future]. your best bet is probably to miss a tech and if he's sitting over you, getup attack. if he's not, you can try to set a pattern for rolling away from him a lot, then break it with going behind, but if he can just react to you, it's hard to deal with.

you like to land on stage with upb alot, when you could just as easily go for a sweetspot and be less vulnerable. you lost a stock at least once each game in the ditto to that. [i flubbed my first recovery and i think that set a trend for the rest of my tournament life. i normally don't have such a hard time sweetspotting but looking at my GnW specifically i can tell my recovery game was particularly bad.]

in the first two games, you used dair a bit too much. like, attempting to oos dair as a punish and stuff [i think i was trying to cross him up, but your correct, a properly spaced nair or a fadeaway bair would have been much safer i think. just me panicking in the heat of the moment]. i didn't see it outright get you punished, but it's a bad decision that cost you incremental advantage (had you nair'd or something instead, it could've given you a better situation to work with, even if dair hit) [my complaint with nair against shiek is she was very easily able to grab me OoS between my first and second kick, but I think had i not been so close that would have been a non-issue. your phrasing is basically spot on, it would have been a much better situation].

gonna watch the second one now.

edit: against shiek, you roll towards center stage a lot, even as gnw. i'm not sure if you were falling for the b/dthrow di mixups or if ganon's just too fat, but that's something to keep an eye out for. you were taking a lot of damage to dthrow-ftilt-combo as ganon [i'm pretty sure ganon's supposed to DI backwards, but I have virtually no experience against a shiek main so it's very possible i was falling for some basic-level dthrow shenanigans].

edgeguarding shiek, i would reccomend always going for the ledge first. you're not going to hit a shiek out of upb very often, so your best bet is to just take the ledge option away and force mixups on the recovery [had not considered this. earlier that day i was telling my friend how shiek has a pretty safe recovery, and yet for some reason i was going for hard punishes that yielded no fruit. forcing a mixup is something that didn't cross my mind, so I'll be doing this in the future for sure] (do they always go for the stage? will they sometimes try to predict you going on stage to punish and go for the ledge? do they try to react to you? etc...) [i'd like to learn drop-dj-uair onto stage for this exact purpose, it's not exactly the 'always go for it' kind of thing that certain characters have but i think it'd cover the most basic options and from there i can learn other mixups to keep a sheik on her toes].

you also straight lost a stock to suboptimal punish. it started off bad (you got hit offstage by misspacing a fair, then getting grab-ftiltxn offstage) [i always turn off the video right before that part, that offstage grab attempt was imo absolutely the worst thing i did all day]. you turned it around with a lucky flamechoke, but went for the jab followup and missed it. then, you got the next flamechoke off a roll towards you, and went for the jab punish again, which hit. but the fair wasn't so good a followup choice. at that percent, go for a dtilt (safer) or dashattack (should connect at that percent, but not safe if they can block...)[i think the Ganon ditto put me in the flame choke jab mindset. if i get one i usually follow up with d-tilt and mix in some wizzkicks for a punish but for some reason i just really wanted to put out a fast jab and reposition myself to react, but you're correct, dtilt is much safer and i hopefully won't be tossing out jabs considering how easy it is to miss].

i'd actually say to work on reading for your followups more, tbh. like your opponent in the ditto, maybe even go for more flamechoke followups. it deals 13% on its own and sets up for more tech chases.
this was super helpful. next time i'm on netplay with my buddy i'll be practicing my ledgegame and trying to optimize any flame choke punishes i can. thanks so much for the input, this **** is more valuable than gold. the event is a biweekly so hopefully i'll have some more stuff for critique in the coming weeks. thanks cory :D
 

CORY

wut
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NP! I'm working on cleaning up some raw info i've gathered on aerial flame choke to put up here (and eventually onto a guide I'm collaborating on). That way everyone can get an idea about guaranteed follow-ups vs missed tech potential etc... To help maximize the punishes we get.
 

MerzA

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Down here in Champaign we have a lot of contending Ganon players. I'm looking for some solid critique on my vids, and I'll be posting some other Ganon vids for y'all to feast on. If you're looking for some insane hype, check out me vs Demia, SkullKid4 and MintyOreos. The videos that I need help with the most are vs MattR and Voyce.

MerzA vs Demia (Ganon, Bowser) - My most recent match, really proud of this one. Demia ended up taking 3rd overall



MerzA vs MattR (Falcon) - I need a lot of insight on the Falcon matchup



MerzA vs Voyce (Fox) - I feel like I started off very strong, but Voyce downloaded me midset. Can you guys point out adjustments that were made on both sides that lead to my loss?



MerzA vs SkullKid4 (Mario, Diddy) - DESTRUCTION!!!!!!!!!!



MerzA vs MintyOreos (Roy) - - DESTRUCTION!!!!!!!!!!



MerzA vs Naan (Marth)

------------------------------------

Demia (Ganon) vs MattR (Falcon)


@Sovereign (Ganon) vs Marku (Fox, Falcon) - DESTRUCTION!!!!!


Sovereign (Ganon, Samus) vs Kit (Luigi)

 
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CORY

wut
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that's a lot ;x i have class tmrw, maybe i'll have time thurs/fri to look over some of them and give feedback.
 

MerzA

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Feb 20, 2014
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that's a lot ;x i have class tmrw, maybe i'll have time thurs/fri to look over some of them and give feedback.
Thanks brotha. I've been putting off posting videos here for a while so I dropped a ton all at once lol
 

Dymentius

Smash Rookie
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Feb 7, 2014
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Hey everyone, I'd like some 3.5 Ganondorf Critique, my name is Dymentius (Dim) and I'm a PM Ganon main, and I was just wondering if you guys could give some tips on how I should change my Ganon. I don't play too often, and i go to events once every one to two months or so.

Here's a set vs Neon the Ultra Lucas Player from AZ.

Dim (Ganon) vs Neon (Lucas)
 
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CORY

wut
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@ MerzA MerzA damn, that first match, the last stock was sliiiiiiiiiick! you don't seem to have any obvious patterns, yet, from what i can tell, nor bad punish habits, or something like that. gonna watch another vid.

against falcon, get off of platforms asap. he likes people on platforms more than ganon, due to limited tech/roll options and the speed that he can put a safe uair out under/on a platform. you seemed to panic and roll away from him a lot in the first game, gonna see if that's a bad habit in the second one. try to edgeguard with ftilt more. his recovery is better, but i thiiiiiink ftilt's disjoint should still clip it, or at least let you force him to pick a perfect sweetspot angle, allowing you easier opportunities to set up float edgeguards or edgehogs. you also tend to give him too much stage control. when you respawned on your... 3rd stock, i want to say, he was still on the left edge and instead of running up to pressure him with your invuln time, you went to the opposite side of the stage to not pressure him with your invuln timer.

you fixed that in the second game, also with that smaller stage choice (personally, i would never pick fod, but you made it work, so hey!). you still preferred roll away, but it didn't seem to be a panic button so much, this time.

against voyce: you established you preferred wizkick forward out of flamechokes in match 1. he caught on near the end and rolled behind you and you didn't get a chance to try again. let's see if you use this in the later games. your punish game on fox is really solid, though. like, you hit him on a platform, and he dies from your read. that's really good. it looks like voyce is slowing down and not running in, like a bad fox, near the end of g1, but then realizes he's behind so he can't just try to camp you out.

so, you only got one chance to flame choke followup, but wizkick forward worked, so yay! he was definitely just playing more patiently. he got the stock lead early and then just played "proper" fox, where he makes you move on his terms and then attempts to punish you. the sketchiest choice you made, imo, was trying to wizkick onto the stage during recovery on your 3rd stock. there was no reason to, fox wasn't committing to anything and he could have (and did) avoided the attack. you actually lost your last stock because you gave up the stage. it was all set up because you (maybe over?) respected his respawn invuln and went to the left ledge. you got him with that bair, but he went for you having to commit to an offensive action and nair-then shined you to death, really quickly. if you'd approached with shield, you might've been able to get out of the situation (this a hindsight observation. i probably would've run forward to attempt a followup like you had i done the same thing, tbh).

he starts doing it in g2, but in g3, you can see very early on that he's just watching you when you tech and reacting, bcuz fox. right around 8m, he knocks you down under the left platform and just lets you tech mid, the chases with nair. he misses the followup off of nair, but the setup works, bcuz fox. i think this is what's going to make you lose, ultimately. instead of trying to predict, he remembers that he can just react to your options, in a lot of situations. around 8m40s when you uair him onto the bottom left platform, you waited. you're ganon, you can't do this; also, there was no reason not to be running up towards him, either. his only options would be limited by the platform, and his safest (roll away, or tech in place-shield) wouldn't realistically be able to punish a sh-uair, if you'd gone for it. if you had predicted tech in, you could've just uair'd him and probably put him offstage for a stock, right there. you still got him with the followup uair, but that was also dependent on fox trying to attack oos against you, which he might not have done. really really good spacing on the fairs immediately when fox respawned, though! that third stock was unfortunate : ( you did well to avoid the first shine spike, though! you might've been able to avoid the second with a sweetspot, but i don't think you could have pulled that off from that angle... i don't think you made any outright mistake to get put into the situation, just got read on your followup from your nair. your last stock was just him watching spacing and predicting a few of your rolls, it looked like. he also started using his jump speed to shove nairs into your airspace, so you couldn't use your own ac nair to threaten.
 

MerzA

Smash Cadet
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Feb 20, 2014
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Thanks a lot @ CORY CORY I'm going to read and rewatch a lot of the film and take notes on what bad habits I was getting myself into (wizkick into stage, trying to egeguard firefox with fair instead of up air, following up better out of flame choke, etc)

I'm really looking forward to your post regarding followups out of flame choke vs certain characters. I really don't use it as much as I should, I tend to only do it from the ledge..
 
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Purple Stuff

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
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Denton, Texas
@ MerzA MerzA Definitely break that rolling habit. I'm trying to do the same. You do it a lot when you get pressured and it's pretty much what lost you the first game against that falcon in the first video. Other than that, you don't seem too bad at the match up honestly.

Here's some decent Netplay friendlies I had today.




That sheik was actually wreaking me for the most part. He got unlucky here. I think Nair into Dacus at around 20% is a thing on sheik though. I was getting it pretty consistently during our matches. He dropped a bit of knowledge on me after we finished and let me know how he was taking stocks from me. He told me he was Utilting me on the edge of stages knowing that I was gonna DI in. I didn't even realize. What's the best way to deal with that? Do I DI back and just risk the off stage gimp? Or DI in and just eat the damage? Hell, I'm not sure how to DI her Utilt in general. Up and away is my guess, but then again my DI is horrendous.
 
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CORY

wut
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Hey everyone, I'd like some 3.5 Ganondorf Critique, my name is Dymentius (Dim) and I'm a PM Ganon main, and I was just wondering if you guys could give some tips on how I should change my Ganon. I don't play too often, and i go to events once every one to two months or so.

Here's a set vs Neon the Ultra Lucas Player from AZ.

Dim (Ganon) vs Neon (Lucas)
real late, but thoughts:
g1, you always come down with an aerial. always. neon caught onto this and would just wait for you to double jump and start going in with his dash attack, since he could catch your lcancelled landing lag with it. don't go for dair out of dthrow as much as you've tried. nair or uair out of it, especially at those lower percents would probably be better options, as nair deals a ton of damage (24% with both hits!) and puts them into a better combo position, and uair has a larger coverage area, along with good angles for followups.

i like your use of float, overall. you got your turnaround on neon's first stock with just one float into delayed bair into stuff to get him offstage. btw, your balls are huge going for sword taunt. calm down, son! ok, that second one, though... you could've gotten him if you'd floated offstage into uair...

your last stock g1 you lost because you gave up all stage control. lucas was invuln from respawn, but you shouldn't have gone straight to the edge of the stage. maybe at least grab the ledge, so you have the option to invuln wl onstage past him or into him with jab? he basically just kept you walled there until he tapped you and then went into usmash.

around 5m30s in g2, if you'd floated instead of going for the wizkick, you might've been able to survive. he might've reacted to the float and hit you just the same, but you could've also floated into u/fair to bait the reaction then hit him first (potentially...).

g2 you used a lot less float. the commentators mentioned it, but i don't think they noticed that you were using it pretty nicely g1. g1, near the end, you had the bad habit of jump-dj-float, limiting your options out of float to either an aerial or the 14 frame commitment of cancelling float. jump-dj-float can work, but you can't use it too often because you want to be able to jump out of float if things start to look not optimal.

gg on that last stock. we all know who really won that match...
 

Bazkip

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Kage video dump incoming

McSmashter 4
https://youtu.be/SJ0h4N3KEew vs Ally (Ike)
https://youtu.be/WjLVUlUdvyE vs Armada (Fox)
https://youtu.be/fIJDQMOlE1Q vs Weon-X (Marth)
https://youtu.be/j2TXG8DnHDA vs Toronto Joe (Snake)
https://youtu.be/sCeLbE2ttXg vs Weon-X (Marth, C.Falcon)
https://youtu.be/Pj8oOdyK48w vs Blitz (Ike)
https://youtu.be/kcs21ChGhDw vs Juice (Dedede)
https://youtu.be/kcs21ChGhDw vs Smash Central (Mario)
https://youtu.be/C0LoP09-jUg vs Shots Fired (Ganon)
https://youtu.be/laM5oDqQ8Gk vs Lyte (Marth)
https://youtu.be/ZSr4DPQdUho vs Nombre (Ganon)

LAN ETS
https://youtu.be/mOUaVL8KdWw vs Vwins (Link)
https://youtu.be/3_lkd8E1r7E vs Ally (Ike)
https://youtu.be/ewlTWqnyPBk vs MorKs (Snake, Wario)
https://youtu.be/WtNV1TaD3QQ vs Sol (Link)
https://youtu.be/12BDaeACmBM vs Nedd (ROB)

Btw @ Hungry Headcrab Hungry Headcrab , I think it'd be a good idea to put the characters the opponents are playing as, like I did. Makes it easier if you want to study certain matchups.
 
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Purple Stuff

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Kage video dump incoming

McSmashter 4
https://youtu.be/SJ0h4N3KEew vs Ally (Ike)
https://youtu.be/WjLVUlUdvyE vs Armada (Fox)
https://youtu.be/fIJDQMOlE1Q vs Weon-X (Marth)
https://youtu.be/j2TXG8DnHDA vs Toronto Joe (Snake)
https://youtu.be/sCeLbE2ttXg vs Weon-X (Marth, C.Falcon)
https://youtu.be/Pj8oOdyK48w vs Blitz (Ike)
https://youtu.be/kcs21ChGhDw vs Juice (Dedede)
https://youtu.be/kcs21ChGhDw vs Smash Central (Mario)
https://youtu.be/C0LoP09-jUg vs Shots Fired (Ganon)
https://youtu.be/laM5oDqQ8Gk vs Lyte (Marth)
https://youtu.be/ZSr4DPQdUho vs Nombre (Ganon)

LAN ETS
https://youtu.be/ZSr4DPQdUho vs Vwins (Link)
https://youtu.be/3_lkd8E1r7E vs Ally (Ike)
https://youtu.be/ewlTWqnyPBk vs MorKs (Snake, Wario)
https://youtu.be/WtNV1TaD3QQ vs Sol (Link)
https://youtu.be/12BDaeACmBM vs Nedd (ROB)

Btw @ Hungry Headcrab Hungry Headcrab , I think it'd be a good idea to put the characters the opponents are playing as, like I did. Makes it easier if you want to study certain matchups.
vs Vwins youtube link is wrong. Links to the Nombre match.

Awesome vid dump though. And how the hell should quick draw be punished? It was blowing kage up.
 

CORY

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even though he can jump out of it quickly, he does have a 5 frame jump squat, during which he's still flying across the stage. you can generally try to just stay close enough that he can't get any of his options out (grab is probably the fastest, and that'll be... frame 7 or 8? at best) and jab him out of stuff.

otherwise, if he starts it outside of the range you can reliably close the gap and threaten, probably preemptive (up angled-f)tilts and stuff? otherwise shield and pray?
 

Bazkip

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vs Vwins youtube link is wrong. Links to the Nombre match.

Awesome vid dump though. And how the hell should quick draw be punished? It was blowing kage up.
Oops, fixed.

If they're using Quick Draw in neutral then you kinda just have to put hitboxes out in front of them. Nairing when they get close to you is probably the best option as that should beat out any attempt to aerial, grab or upsmash. So if they want to avoid getting hit they'll either have to jump out of the way, or wavedash back, resetting the situation to neutral. Nair might lose to quick draw attack though, dunno for certain. Yo should move towards them while they're charging before nairing, so that when they bail you've taken stage control from them. Wiz Foot can also work if they start it close to you, since he can't do anything quick enough to avoid being hit.
even though he can jump out of it quickly, he does have a 5 frame jump squat, during which he's still flying across the stage. you can generally try to just stay close enough that he can't get any of his options out (grab is probably the fastest, and that'll be... frame 7 or 8? at best) and jab him out of stuff.

otherwise, if he starts it outside of the range you can reliably close the gap and threaten, probably preemptive (up angled-f)tilts and stuff? otherwise shield and pray?
Shielding is exactly what you shouldn't do, since you'll just get grabbed (though I suppose you can try nair oos to punish that). And yeah, grab is frame 7. Rest of this advice is solid.
 

Bazkip

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ey who wants to see me choke and generally play like garbage?
**** Roy, this character is dumb.
The claims that he has a bad recovery are a god damned lie.
Blargh
 

CORY

wut
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ey who wants to see me choke and generally play like garbage?
**** Roy, this character is dumb.
The claims that he has a bad recovery are a god damned lie.
Blargh
he was reading your tech and roll habits real hard, gotta watch that.

a strat to try against recovering roy that i've been told by people locally is to go around behind roy's upb, since the entire hitbox of stupid is diagonally up/in front of him and the steal the ledge during his air stall at the end. there's counterplay the roy can use to get around it, but it's a way to start him doing something else, so you can get that counterplay going.

he was also wisening up to your ledge hop-uair distance and staying just outside of it. you might be able to perfect wl-jab and catch him from that distance, with some invuln protection, if you wanted a more offensive option off the ledge.

float more. especially when you have momentum in your favor. it's not so great in neutral (a decent mixup, but you've vulnerable at the startup and it sucks to be hit out of your float into a combo, since it's one of your antijuggle/recovery tools...), but definitely use it when you gain momentum to mixup your attack timings and spacing.

then zelda... yeah, that sucks... i don't have enough zelda experience to know what to do. she's good at making your play her game and avoiding yours : / someone told me how to properly (s)di out of usmash strings, but i can't remember what the strat was off the top of my head right now : / it's not intuitive, though, so maybe it was just sdi upwards, rather than to one of the sides?
 

Bazkip

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he was reading your tech and roll habits real hard, gotta watch that.

a strat to try against recovering roy that i've been told by people locally is to go around behind roy's upb, since the entire hitbox of stupid is diagonally up/in front of him and the steal the ledge during his air stall at the end. there's counterplay the roy can use to get around it, but it's a way to start him doing something else, so you can get that counterplay going.

he was also wisening up to your ledge hop-uair distance and staying just outside of it. you might be able to perfect wl-jab and catch him from that distance, with some invuln protection, if you wanted a more offensive option off the ledge.

float more. especially when you have momentum in your favor. it's not so great in neutral (a decent mixup, but you've vulnerable at the startup and it sucks to be hit out of your float into a combo, since it's one of your antijuggle/recovery tools...), but definitely use it when you gain momentum to mixup your attack timings and spacing.

then zelda... yeah, that sucks... i don't have enough zelda experience to know what to do. she's good at making your play her game and avoiding yours : / someone told me how to properly (s)di out of usmash strings, but i can't remember what the strat was off the top of my head right now : / it's not intuitive, though, so maybe it was just sdi upwards, rather than to one of the sides?
The counterplay for Roy is to simply upB early into you, and I'm pretty sure they can just do it on reaction. Once they're within upB distance there's extremely little that can be done. Only effective counterplay is getting to them outside the range, using float to go deep and uair them might work, but he can also still sideB you...
The real counterplay is to wait for it to be nerfed. **** dtilt too.

I usually crush that Zelda (2-0'd him in winners, had a perfect record against him before that set) I just played terrible. Correct DI on upsmash is up and slightly away iirc. I should've DD camped more.

I spammed a lot of rolls idk what that was, I don't usually do that. Haven't been playing much lately so I'm probably just off. Also yeah I underutilize float, just don't think of it a lot.
 
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CORY

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it's hard to comment much, the stream quality dips pretty bad in the middle of your first match. but, you overuse aerial wizkick, imo. mainly, you use it far too close to the stage, where you're SUPER vulnerable to someone sticking a hitbox out in the path and just ending your stock right there.

in general float more. i'm going to tell everyone to float more until everyone is literally overusing float, then i can tell everyone to stop floating so much. if you have them on the ground, run up, sh, float. you can gauge reactions safely, cancel float into wl, dj into punish, just attack out of float if they're close enough. you get them in shield and have them used to your normal patterns (for example, dj to crossup into a bair vs just spacing fair or something like that) start mixing up with full jump float into dair or float-drift a little-bair/fair. little things like that that make the opponent think you left an opening and they start to jump or do some other oos, then you catch them with your frame trap.

stuff against pika: try to focus on uair more than nair. short bodies take away a lot of nair's utility, since they can get underneath it much more safely (and likely attack you before you can land and use the ac window). pika also seems to like sitting slightly above you (at least from the video you linked). uair can stuff out a lot of what he would be trying to do, and mixing up ac nair with delayed shffl uairs can keep pika outside of his desired range.

on that note, i would also say to stay grounded a little bit more than you were against pika. not super glue feet to the ground, but jump a bit less and use d-ftils and dtilts to space out in the neutral and after aerials to try and catch him pressing buttons oos.

your tomahawk usage was really interesting. i liked it, not sure if it's that useful overall on ganon, but you were making it work, so good ****.

real talk: at about 11m25s in the third video, when you went down low to try and edgeguard the pika, my kneejerk reaction would've been to go for a ganoncide after you threw out bair and pika started upb >.>
 

Bazkip

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Here's the vids from the weekly I got 5th at.

vs Pokidoki (Ganon, Diddy) https://youtu.be/9Xn8vSitp8E
lol

vs Ikea (ZSS) https://youtu.be/pnDDHJjxdTc
I'm gonna guess that what you guys will probably want to say to me is that I wasn't doing much in terms of edgeguards. I think people massively oversimplify the edgeguard game against tethers and how "easy" it's supposed to be, unless your name is Olimar tether characters have lots of options to vary up their stage approach and threaten that space and it can easily result in you getting punished if you're not careful, and there's also the hold back mixup. I tried ledgehop bairs/uairs to try to cover both ledgejump options but they didn't seem to work (I thought they were supposed to? Was I just to slow?). So instead I decided to play it safe and try to get him when he was coming back up off the ledge. Looking back though he didn't really seem to be using all those offstage options so maybe I was respecting it too much, idk. Game 2 was just garbo. Also looool that dair.

vs OOO (Ness) https://youtu.be/yLrHtgswMMc
Yeeaaaahh didn't choke against a Ness. Not totally true though I definitely started losing my composure during game 2 but I was able to keep it together and clutch it out. He seemed to die at percents I wouldn't expect him too (or rather, at percents I'd like people to die at, but often doesn't seem to happe), better DI would've made this set very different...


vs Bobo (Ivysaur) https://youtu.be/ngeIznuJcuo
SEE I WAS RIGHT TO BE WORRIED ABOUT TETHER CHARACTER OPTIONS WHILE RECOVERING
I got ****ed lmao

Man it must be fun to watch me lol

Edit: I just noticed I ended two games by getting the second hit of nair to put them at 7% and then ganonciding them :drshrug:
 
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CORY

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i'll watch stuff later on, since i have a bunch of stuff to do today before going into work early, but gonna comment about your zss edgeguarding bit:

yeah, edgeguarding zss is actually really difficult, unless you can call her out on "she's going to tether right here" and drop down with uair or something right there. otherwise, she has a lot of layers to what she can pull off, she gets her downb (so, a third jump) back after every hit and ledge grab, and she falls fast enough to do effective mixups with the fadeback off the forced ledge jump (like just regrab, or fadeback, don't regrab, wall jump into upb or downb into upb or...)
 

bubbaking

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@ Bazkip Bazkip : Only watched the first game against OOO

First stock goes pretty well.

2:17 - This is more of a gameplay comment, but up to now, I notice you have not utilized Ganon's grab at all. During the entire first stock, you did a lot of bair walling and uair sharking, and the Ness started to respect it and shield a lot of your moves. Once you came in fresh for your second stock and threw out those two nairs, Ness started shielding again, but he was way too close to you. This is where you should just have a natural tick reaction to turn around and grab him. Ganon is a very condition-heavy character. You make the opponent want to shield a lot and then you trick him into letting you grab him. At this specific time, you had him in the shield, but instead of grabbing, you opted for the very poorly spaced ftilt. Knowing when to go for the quick grab can be hard, and it comes with experience, but watch this part again and you'll see that after the two nairs, the best choice was to just go for the grab. No risk with huge rewards, too.

2:41 - You do it again here. After that first nair, Ness is practically touching you. This is the perfect time to grab and get a hard punish (CG into aerial). You can see the Ness is conditioned because he shielded the second nair instead of getting out of there. After that second nair, you were forced to lose your advantage by jabbing him to make the nair safe.

3:03 - Very bad Wiz Kick. Off the top of my head, two feasible options were: 1. Keep trying to Wiz Kick inside the flame to surprise Ness with a point blank blast OR 2. Roll out and reset to neutral. You chose to roll back AND Wiz Kick. At this point Ness was way too far away, and he wasn't going to close that gap after he saw that you had rolled out. Going for such a raw Wiz Kick was just asking to be punished.

Other than those things I noticed, it was a pretty nice game. I like your use of AC nairs. Also, really stylish kill at the end! :awesome:
 
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Bazkip

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@ Bazkip Bazkip : Only watched the first game against OOO

First stock goes pretty well.

2:17 - This is more of a gameplay comment, but up to now, I notice you have not utilized Ganon's grab at all. During the entire first stock, you did a lot of bair walling and uair sharking, and the Ness started to respect it and shield a lot of your moves. Once you came in fresh for your second stock and threw out those two nairs, Ness started shielding again, but he was way too close to you. This is where you should just have a natural tick reaction to turn around and grab him. Ganon is a very condition-heavy character. You make the opponent want to shield a lot and then you trick him into letting you grab him. At this specific time, you had him in the shield, but instead of grabbing, you opted for the very poorly spaced ftilt. Knowing when to go for the quick grab can be hard, and it comes with experience, but watch this part again and you'll see that after the two nairs, the best choice was to just go for the grab. No risk with huge rewards, too.

2:41 - You do it again here. After that first nair, Ness is practically touching you. This is the perfect time to grab and get a hard punish (CG into aerial). You can see the Ness is conditioned because he shielded the second nair instead of getting out of there. After that second nair, you were forced to lose your advantage by jabbing him to make the nair safe.

3:03 - Very bad Wiz Kick. Off the top of my head, two feasible options were: 1. Keep trying to Wiz Kick inside the flame to surprise Ness with a point blank blast OR 2. Roll out and reset to neutral. You chose to roll back AND Wiz Kick. At this point Ness was way too far away, and he wasn't going to close that gap after he saw that you had rolled out. Going for such a raw Wiz Kick was just asking to be punished.

Other than those things I noticed, it was a pretty nice game. I like your use of AC nairs. Also, really stylish kill at the end! :awesome:
2:17 I thought I could catch him in the airdodge endlag but yeah you're probably right.

2:41 Okay no I completely disagree with this. We don't CG Ness and wtf are talking about that jab put him in the corner that's the exact opposite of losing advantage. He panic dash attacked to get out of there and I punished him for that (not an exceptional punish cause I though I could've landed an upsmash after dthrow but I guess he was too low percent, but that was poor decision on the punish not the events leading up to it. Still fsmashed him right after so wasn't even that bad).

3:03 panic wiz foots woooooo
>_>
 
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