Showcase of Power v3.6: The Ganondorf Video Thread

Hungry Headcrab · Nov 18, 2014

Bazkip · Nov 20, 2014

Here you can observe me learn the valuable lesson of "Don't taunt unless you absolutely know you have enough time"

rip

I have no idea what to do against Ike

Here's some videos of someone else not playing badly

Yanoss1313 · Nov 20, 2014

Bazkip said:
Here you can observe me learn the valuable lesson of "Don't taunt unless you absolutely know you have enough time"

rip

I have no idea what to do against Ike

Here's some videos of someone else not playing badly

lol, i almost thought the super armour was gonna save you, wrong Dtaunt >.<

Edit, you're too hard on yourself, you're ganon is atleast as good as Marit's

Bazkip · Nov 21, 2014

Yanoss1313 said:
lol, i almost though the super armour was gonna save you, wrong Dtaunt >.<

Edit, you're too hard on yourself, you're ganon is atleast as good as Marit's

I'm hard on myself cause I don't want to be content with just being average. Keeps me honest lol.

CORY · Nov 21, 2014

vs ike, try to not take to the air too much. at least half of the time you get pegged by qd's attack was due to you jumping in on him or trying to get a hard read and him just waiting you out and reacting. if he's intent on just sitting there charging it in neutral, find a platform to camp, to force him to move and jump to you (as you get closer to him) or just move towards him while grounded, ready to either shield or jab on reaction (remember he can't jump from qd for 7(?) frames, and he moves pretty quickly, so that's a surprisingly long distance).

teluoborg · Nov 21, 2014

@

Bazkip Using so many Dairs and dacuses in the neutral didn't help you. Dair is no zoning tool, and has no advantage on shield.

Yanoss1313 · Nov 21, 2014

CORY said:
vs ike, try to not take to the air too much. at least half of the time you get pegged by qd's attack was due to you jumping in on him or trying to get a hard read and him just waiting you out and reacting. if he's intent on just sitting there charging it in neutral, find a platform to camp, to force him to move and jump to you (as you get closer to him) or just move towards him while grounded, ready to either shield or jab on reaction (remember he can't jump from qd for 7(?) frames, and he moves pretty quickly, so that's a surprisingly long distance).

It's actually 32 frames now, for some context he'll cover nearly half of battlefield before he can cancel it, that distance gets further the longer he charges it too. So jam some lead in those shoes and stick to the ground.

CORY · Nov 21, 2014

whoa, what? that's kind of crazy : o

edit: ok, looking at patch notes it was increased to 32 from 27! damn, at least i got one number right ;x but that's just over half a second, i swear i've seen ike's do stuff from qd in less than half a second! i really need to up my ike game, this is a really bad lack of mu knowledge!

Yanoss1313 · Nov 21, 2014

CORY said:
whoa, what? that's kind of crazy : o

edit: ok, looking at patch notes it was increased to 32 from 27! damn, at least i got one number right ;x but that's just over half a second, i swear i've seen ike's do stuff from qd in less than half a second! i really need to up my ike game, this is a really bad lack of mu knowledge!

Yeah, they also removed the auto slice on A, so you can expect their spacing on the close slices to be a little less.... perfect <.<

I only know cause he's one of my secondaries

Sovereign · Nov 21, 2014

@

Bazkip - Space with Fair and Bair more off of a low Drift/Hover. Your DACUSing isn't entirely misplaced, but there's better positions you could put your opponent in, before you use it. Tech Chasing off of a Side B (which you should use more) is optimal.

Mywhy · Nov 22, 2014

I have trouble with Ganon dittos. A huge issue is that I feel like they will do things that I would do in that situation. Him and I are my states top Ganon players, probably within top 20 in the state. http://www.twitch.tv/m/679670

I've got some non-dittos to check out as well.

http://www.twitch.tv/m/679667 <Mick vs Sk1(Zelda)>

^^^ A good one to watch.

http://www.twitch.tv/m/679665 <Mick vs Sk1(Diddy)>

My main thing that I know I need to work on is baiting and stopping those damn missed wavelands. -_- They are so easy but right now I've been going through Dolphin at home/CRT in shop because my new TV is too HD for my wii to run even with component cables apparently.

Do I double jump off ledge too often?

Help me out brethren.

Bonus Ganon team doubles
http://www.twitch.tv/m/679681

Hungry Headcrab · Nov 22, 2014

Oh, by the way, feel free to post twitch links here. That said, I'm not likely to add them to the OP since the links die in 14 days.

Edit: OP updated.

Scuba Steve · Nov 23, 2014

Got a bunch of friendlies here. I think it was the second or third time that I had gotten my hands on the new Ganon.

http://www.twitch.tv/tikobroje/b/589657232?t=1h2m50s

Ace55 · Nov 24, 2014

vs S1-14 (DK)

We reset the first match because he SD'd right of the bat.

Bazkip · Nov 24, 2014

I think this belongs here

Ace55 · Nov 24, 2014

Bazkip said:
I think this belongs here

Not really, but I'm glad you posted it.

God my sides hurt.

Bazkip · Nov 24, 2014

Ace55 said:
Not really, but I'm glad you posted it.

God my sides hurt.

There's enough Ganon in there to qualify imo

Kally Wally · Nov 24, 2014

CORY said:
whoa, what? that's kind of crazy : o

edit: ok, looking at patch notes it was increased to 32 from 27! damn, at least i got one number right ;x but that's just over half a second, i swear i've seen ike's do stuff from qd in less than half a second! i really need to up my ike game, this is a really bad lack of mu knowledge!

The 27 -> 32 is the IASA on the attack. Jumping out of quickdraw is still single-digit frames. Test it yourself in debug mode if you don't believe me.

Ace55 · Nov 24, 2014

Bazkip said:
There's enough Ganon in there to qualify imo

Fair enough.

Hungry Headcrab · Nov 24, 2014

Ha, Salty Highlights would probably qualify, though it doesn't ENTIRELY focus on Ganon. I probably won't add it to the OP any time soon simply because it's weekly and, over time, would eventually just consume the OP.

Maybe give them a shout out in there? I don't know.

Bazkip · Nov 24, 2014

Hungry Headcrab said:
Ha, Salty Highlights would probably qualify, though it doesn't ENTIRELY focus on Ganon. I probably won't add it to the OP any time soon simply because it's weekly and, over time, would eventually just consume the OP.

Maybe give them a shout out in there? I don't know.

Nah not all of them, just the ones that have a sufficient amount of Ganon wreckage.

ArcDawn · Nov 25, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-cgVe-oQn0
Here's a friendly I highlighted from my games with pup. would love some critique on my ganon to see what I'm doing right/wrong. (I know that I'm missing some of my l-cancels and doing my waveland fairs slightly late. Also need to use float mixups more I thinks)

Bazkip · Nov 25, 2014

ArcDawn said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-cgVe-oQn0
Here's a friendly I highlighted from my games with pup. would love some critique on my ganon to see what I'm doing right/wrong. (I know that I'm missing some of my l-cancels and doing my waveland fairs slightly late. Also need to use float mixups more I thinks)

You definitely need to be integrating float into your game more, you used it exactly once. You don't want to be spamming it in neutral but it can be used as a mixup to bait your opponent. Where it really shines is for edgeguards, gives you much bigger window to attempt to react to your opponents attempt to recover. I'm not 100% certain but I believe against Roy if you float a bit above+away from the ledge and time it right you should be able to dair him out of his upB every time (you'll want to try to be slightly behind him). Also you probably would've benefited more by floating that time you tried to come back down from high up with a Wiz Foot.

Everything else was pretty solid from what I could tell.

CORY · Nov 25, 2014

ArcDawn said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-cgVe-oQn0
Here's a friendly I highlighted from my games with pup. would love some critique on my ganon to see what I'm doing right/wrong. (I know that I'm missing some of my l-cancels and doing my waveland fairs slightly late. Also need to use float mixups more I thinks)

almost forgot to watch this ;x

you should float for edgeguard setups more. there were a few times where you jump-double jumped, then landed trying to wait out the timing on roy's upb, but couldn't hit it. if you did jump-float-[whatever comes next] it gives more options for stalling them out. alternatively, get used to how deep you can go offstage (both vertically and horizontally) for your edgeguards with float and still live.

and your friend likes to not di (or di forward) your first dthrow, then di behind on the second. use that to your advantage until he learns to not be as predictable about it.

Yanoss1313 · Nov 25, 2014

Kally Wally said:
The 27 -> 32 is the IASA on the attack. Jumping out of quickdraw is still single-digit frames. Test it yourself in debug mode if you don't believe me.

shows how little i know =D

Hungry Headcrab said:
Ha, Salty Highlights would probably qualify, though it doesn't ENTIRELY focus on Ganon. I probably won't add it to the OP any time soon simply because it's weekly and, over time, would eventually just consume the OP.

Maybe give them a shout out in there? I don't know.

Something like a most recent video slot would work, I dunno if that's possible on here tho.
Either that or just yeah, link the channel or something, It definitely deserves it.

Zujx · Nov 25, 2014

Just wanted to say thanks for taking this over, I really didn't have time to keep up the old video thread
glad your doing it justice

ArcDawn · Nov 25, 2014

Thanks Bazkip and CORY, I'll try to keep that in mind when I'm playing!

Mywhy · Nov 25, 2014

Mywhy said:
I have trouble with Ganon dittos. A huge issue is that I feel like they will do things that I would do in that situation. Him and I are my states top Ganon players, probably within top 20 in the state. http://www.twitch.tv/m/679670

I've got some non-dittos to check out as well.

http://www.twitch.tv/m/679667 <Mick vs Sk1(Zelda)>

^^^ A good one to watch.

http://www.twitch.tv/m/679665 <Mick vs Sk1(Diddy)>

My main thing that I know I need to work on is baiting and stopping those damn missed wavelands. -_- They are so easy but right now I've been going through Dolphin at home/CRT in shop because my new TV is too HD for my wii to run even with component cables apparently.

Do I double jump off ledge too often?

Help me out brethren.

Bonus Ganon team doubles
http://www.twitch.tv/m/679681

Could anyone critique the Zelda Match? Much appreciated.

CORY · Nov 26, 2014

Mywhy said:
Could anyone critique the Zelda Match? Much appreciated.

well, my first impulse it to tell you not to give up so much stage control when the opponent is in recovery.

ok, you seem to fix that in the second match, but don't be afraid to edgehog more often.

overall, you also seem to go with fair almost all the time for approach options. you used nair a few times, but you seemed to be living that fair life overall. get comfortable with the spacing and timing for using ac-nair and rar-bair (with or without wavelands) on approach (both in neutral and when you have momentum going for you). you looked to have good self control with your flamechoke and wizkick usage, and that's really good; you definitely weren't overusing those, imo.

Sovereign · Nov 26, 2014

Low quality, but tell me what you think. I love using Hover/Drift.

EDIT: I SD a lot. I'm sorta bad at measuring up the ledge.

Bazkip · Nov 26, 2014

Never yolo to Yoshi's against Marth

At least I did pretty good against his Sheik

Scuba Steve · Nov 26, 2014

Yoshi's is a fine stage in that matchup

Mywhy · Nov 26, 2014

CORY said:
well, my first impulse it to tell you not to give up so much stage control when the opponent is in recovery.

ok, you seem to fix that in the second match, but don't be afraid to edgehog more often.

overall, you also seem to go with fair almost all the time for approach options. you used nair a few times, but you seemed to be living that fair life overall. get comfortable with the spacing and timing for using ac-nair and rar-bair (with or without wavelands) on approach (both in neutral and when you have momentum going for you). you looked to have good self control with your flamechoke and wizkick usage, and that's really good; you definitely weren't overusing those, imo.

I do notice I use fair often. I have tried incorporating Nair more but I'm just not sure how to use it at this point. I like Nair ac jab onto shields and Nair ac jab from below plats but other than that I just don't know. Do I Waveland too often? Other top players in my state criticize my movement and tell me to stand still almost and hold stage rather than be extremely mobile

Bazkip · Nov 26, 2014

Scuba Steve said:
Yoshi's is a fine stage in that matchup

Maybe I'm just bad against Marth
How am I better against Sheik than against Marth wtf
Edit: Oh wait no his Sheik is probably just worse than his Marth

Sovereign · Nov 26, 2014

Ignore the SD of my first stock, in the first match. If there's anything I can do better, please let me know.

Another match. (with Sound <3)

CORY · Nov 27, 2014

Mywhy said:
I do notice I use fair often. I have tried incorporating Nair more but I'm just not sure how to use it at this point. I like Nair ac jab onto shields and Nair ac jab from below plats but other than that I just don't know. Do I Waveland too often? Other top players in my state criticize my movement and tell me to stand still almost and hold stage rather than be extremely mobile

eh, i can't comment on movement. you want to be tricky when you're going in, which is when you get the most mileage out of wl on and around platforms (or from sh aerial-wl). you should probably press your top players for more info on their thoughts why you should hold ground and not move as much if you have stage control. get into their mindset and see if it's applicable to your ganon play.

ac-nair is good on shield and i would recommend trying to condition your opponents to respect the ac-nair-jab and then respond accordingly. if they hold shield to try and grab you after your jab (since jab isn't safe on shield) then start doing ac-nair-grab, since you already have frame advantage, so they can't just react to your grab startup. if they try to roll away, punish according to the situation (if they're at kill percent, just use whatever option works best. if they need more damage, go for flamechoke into a setup, or nair/uair for a combo start, depending on percents. if they have a short roll or are on a platform, you can use dsmash or dair to set up for bigger damage, potentially). if they dodge, you can probably delay a dtilt or the grab itself (or go for a flamechoke) to set up for more damage, or just utilt (or [insert finisher]) to kill.

if they insist on just grabbing, though, just keep on ac-nair-jab and get used to your followups at various percents : p

teluoborg · Nov 27, 2014

Bazkip said:
Never yolo to Yoshi's against Marth

At least I did pretty good against his Sheik

Note for the future : Sheik's up B landing animation dodges Usmash, Sheik's dash attack dodges grab. God ****ing dammit.

Scuba Steve · Nov 27, 2014

I'm so sad that Sheik can crawl in PM

Thane of Blue Flames · Nov 28, 2014

Yanoss1313 said:
Yeah, they also removed the auto slice on A, so you can expect their spacing on the close slices to be a little less.... perfect <.<

I only know cause he's one of my secondaries

Just saying, committing to the QD attack in pretty much any situation is a bad idea. You always want to be able to react to what your opponent does, and so pressing the A button when you QD is always a suboptimal thing to do. Pretty much no one who plays Ike well ever actually used the auto QD attack. Even out of throws, from which QD attack is a combo option on DI away, you want to be able to jump out to catch DI in and get a better follow-up than just zooming off to hit nothing and resetting to neutral.

Yanoss1313 · Nov 28, 2014

Lordling said:
Just saying, committing to the QD attack in pretty much any situation is a bad idea. You always want to be able to react to what your opponent does, and so pressing the A button when you QD is always a suboptimal thing to do. Pretty much no one who plays Ike well ever actually used the auto QD attack. Even out of throws, from which QD attack is a combo option on DI away, you want to be able to jump out to catch DI in and get a better follow-up than just zooming off to hit nothing and resetting to neutral.

Fair enough.

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