Show Me Ya Gimps! Pit General Disc.

[Sharkz]

I don't know, maybe my hands are just slow. I'm actually finding it easier to press down on the c-stick then instantly side-b.
When I do both with the joystick, he never grabs on to the ledge and eventually starts flying under the stage.

 

[Vixen]

Just sounds like you're being slow. Whatever works for you, though.

 

[FrootLoop]

yeah it's pretty easy just tried it, if you're holding down you won't grab the edge

 

[DKMikey]

How fast is this regrab? Is it instant? If someone can post a video, it would be much appreciated. I'm doing it as fast as I can, but it's definitely not an instant regrab.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

How fast is this regrab? Is it instant? If someone can post a video, it would be much appreciated. I'm doing it as fast as I can, but it's definitely not an instant regrab.

It's as good as instant when you do it right, definitely faster than someone else could wavedash/jump down to grab it since you're still riding the invincible wing train to ledgeville. There is a minor bit of forward movement into the ledge, but it's fast enough.

Part of me hopes this does get 3.0b'd because it seems ridiculous for a character like Pit to have it, on the other hand, it's a nice tool for him to abuse.

I usually get made to feel pretty bad about picking Pit, because he essentially counters and destroys everyone that my community plays with, It's a very small community. I'd definitely like to get to pick up the ol' bow and continue the uprising on them.

 

[DKMikey]

There is a minor bit of forward movement into the ledge, but it's fast enough.

Ah, okay. It appears that I was doing it right. I literally thought it was instant (sort of like when you run off the ledge and Side+B to grab the edge).

 

[Vixen]

It's as good as instant when you do it right, definitely faster than someone else could wavedash/jump down to grab it since you're still riding the invincible wing train to ledgeville. There is a minor bit of forward movement into the ledge, but it's fast enough.

Part of me hopes this does get 3.0b'd because it seems ridiculous for a character like Pit to have it, on the other hand, it's a nice tool for him to abuse.

I usually get made to feel pretty bad about picking Pit, because he essentially counters and destroys everyone that my community plays with, It's a very small community. I'd definitely like to get to pick up the ol' bow and continue the uprising on them.

Who does your community play?

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Dedede, Link, Samus, Bowser, Mewtwo, and very rarely Ivysaur.

It might not be a character countering the others, but I'm constantly getting complaints that Pit can stop everything they do and harass them into submission via arrows, fast grabs that link into other moves, and overall mostly good attacks combined with very good recovery.

It seems a lot like the response Mario gets from them too.

 

[Vixen]

DDD, and Link do just fine vs Pit. Maybe your friends should step it up, rather than complaining?

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

DDD, and Link do just fine vs Pit. Maybe your friends should step it up, rather than complaining?

The thing I hear with vs D3 is that he's a giant punching bag and in order to intentionally push them out of their comfort zone, I will spam arrows to force approach until they're close enough to be able to dash grab/initiate close combat.

Link is usually a little better, but lack of aerial mobility seems to hurt them compared to Pitty Pat.

What do you think about the other match-ups mentioned?

 

[Vixen]

Ivy is attrition. Approaching her in the air is suicide. Bowser you just dthrow > stuff until he doesn't have stocks anymore.

samus is pretty good, but i've never played one in pm. mewtwo also feels pretty good, but has a bad weight and would probably get junked by pit.

your d3 player needs to watch heysuess. that dude works miracles.

 

[FrootLoop]

Everyone on that list is slow and really can't punish you for arrows until close range so you kinda win for free except Ivysaur.

Ivysaur is harder, Bair eats arrows and outranges you to the point where it's safe even when you know it's coming, it got pretty nerfed so it's not too crazy now. Razor leaf can suck but I think you can nullify it with an arrow. ftilt/dtilt are like unpunishable. Her nair is a solid combobreaker (something pit doesn't have imo). Her recovery is eh, you just force tether and then hit her when she pulls up. I haven't really had problems recovering vs her, maybe a little.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Ivy is attrition. Approaching her in the air is suicide. Bowser you just dthrow > stuff until he doesn't have stocks anymore.

samus is pretty good, but i've never played one in pm. mewtwo also feels pretty good, but has a bad weight and would probably get junked by pit.

your d3 player needs to watch heysuess. that dude works miracles.

Ha, yeah. Bowser feels a lot like fighting him with Mario. If I'm not trying to harass with arrows/fireballs, it's chaingrab or throw-follow city.

He does watch Heysuess videos, but I don't think he's quite gotten used to slow and methodical play. Most of the characters I use are either average or fast speeds, so he probably has this idea that I move quickly and if he doesn't, he'll get punished hard. (Though it's him trying to rush into attacks that gets him killed in the first place.)

 

[Morphine]

Whoa DDDs worst match up could potentially be pit so don't count him out yet

 

[otter]

Why is it so easy to jump out of shield and cancel it into upsmash (which is godlike for punishes), but doesn't work with Pit's other smashes?

 

[FrootLoop]

Nintendo wanted you to be able to upsmash by hitting the control stick up and A at the same time. The problem is if you hit A before up you get jab, and if you hit up before A you get jump. So to fix this they let you cancel the first frames of the jump (the ones where your character is getting ready to jump but not airborne yet) into upsmash. This way, upsmashing isn't a 1 frame window and the timing of up and A is more lenient. This allows up smash out of shield because you can jump out of shield and then cancel the start of your jump into up smash.

There was no reason for Nintendo to allow forward or down smash out of the first frames of jump, it didn't make anything more lenient so they didn't allow it. This means there is no way to forward or down smash out of shield because the input string of 'shield -> jump -> smash attack' doesn't work for them.

 

[Vixen]

actually peach and yoshi can do any standing normal out of shield. They go down before they go up. if you jump > dj on the first possible frame you'll be grounded with light landing. Since Yoshi doesn't suffer shield stun, and has yoshi armor out of double jump, it means he can literally do anything he wants out of shield.

Peach can dsmash out of shield which is hilarious.

 

[Vixen]

Everyone on that list is slow and really can't punish you for arrows until close range so you kinda win for free except Ivysaur.

Ivysaur is harder, Bair eats arrows and outranges you to the point where it's safe even when you know it's coming, it got pretty nerfed so it's not too crazy now. Razor leaf can suck but I think you can nullify it with an arrow. ftilt/dtilt are like unpunishable. Her nair is a solid combobreaker (something pit doesn't have imo). Her recovery is eh, you just force tether and then hit her when she pulls up. I haven't really had problems recovering vs her, maybe a little.

I have to disagree with "Win for free" when it comes to DDD. He actually handles pit pretty well.

http://www.twitch.tv/vmundimizuki/c/3428779 <- i got *****

 

[otter]

Nintendo wanted you to be able to upsmash by hitting the control stick up and A at the same time. The problem is if you hit A before up you get jab, and if you hit up before A you get jump. So to fix this they let you cancel the first frames of the jump (the ones where your character is getting ready to jump but not airborne yet) into upsmash. This way, upsmashing isn't a 1 frame window and the timing of up and A is more lenient. This allows up smash out of shield because you can jump out of shield and then cancel the start of your jump into up smash.

There was no reason for Nintendo to allow forward or down smash out of the first frames of jump, it didn't make anything more lenient so they didn't allow it. This means there is no way to forward or down smash out of shield because the input string of 'shield -> jump -> smash attack' doesn't work for them.

Makes sense, thank you.

That reminds me of Kara Throwing in Street Fighter. In some fighting games, you throw by hitting two attack buttons at once. There are a couple frames of tolerance so that you don't have to do a one frame input just to throw. If the first input you use happens to move your character forward, and the second one activates your throw, you just increased your throw range.

 

[Vixen]

You can do the same thing in melee/pm with dash attack/usmash. :D

boost grabbing is a dash attack cancelled grab. there's also dash attack cancel usmash. V:

 

[FrootLoop]

actually peach and yoshi can do any standing normal out of shield. They go down before they go up. if you jump > dj on the first possible frame you'll be grounded with light landing. Since Yoshi doesn't suffer shield stun, and has yoshi armor out of double jump, it means he can literally do anything he wants out of shield.

Peach can dsmash out of shield which is hilarious.

I don't really count that as out of shield because there's like a real amount of delay between leaving shield and doing the attack. You have all of jumpsquat, at least a frame of double jump, and all of light landing before the move will start. At that point you're getting pretty close to 'let go of shield -> do attack' speed.

I think that pit vs ddd video was more of a 'you whiffing everything and being unprepared for ddd's range and minion teleport' thing than a 'ddd is fine vs pit' thing. Even when you were whiffing everything it was still going fine until you sorta fell apart and ran into a bunch of hammers.

 

[Vixen]

Ah okay. Yeah I kept trying to dash > shield > WD oos but those ftilts are a lot faster than I expected.

You have 4 frames of jumpsquat, 1 frame of double jump, and 0 frames landing lag because there's 0 lag during dj-land.

Yoshi can further abuse this by not having shield stun, and his dj armor

 

[cmart]

Ah okay. Yeah I kept trying to dash > shield > WD oos but those ftilts are a lot faster than I expected.

You have 4 frames of jumpsquat, 1 frame of double jump before its land cancelled, and however many frames light landing is.

Yoshi can further abuse this by not having shield stun, and his dj armor

Yoshi has shield stun fyi

 

[Vixen]

Timothy Wilson (Vman): "because she suffers shield stun.. the REASON it's soooo good for yoshi.. is cuz he has no shield stun"

During a convo about dj-landing out of shield.

 

[cmart]

Maybe in melee, but we added shield stun to him in PM to balance out being able to jump OOS.

 

[Vixen]

Ah I see. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[otter]

What stages do you guys like to play as Pit? I'm not great at that aspect of the game yet. I have a friend who plays Ness, and I like to take him to Dreamland just because it reduces his killing power and puts recovery to a forefront where Pit wins. Is that the right idea?

 

[Vixen]

I never bother with stages like that because you typically only live for like 20% longer. I go for stages where you win the on-stage game solidly.

You take Marth to DL in Melee because he can't tipper FSmash the platforms, in general has less on-stage coverage, and he has no guaranteed kill set ups at higher percents, meaning it's not uncommon to live to 200%, as an example. Peach actually does badly on DL64 vs most of the cast.

That's my favorite counter-example to why people typically choose stages. I chose stages on two criteria:

A. My character's ability to do well on-stae
B. My opponents potential for discomfort with the stage.

I spend hours learning jank stages, because I know that nobody else bothers to practice on them. They'd sooner ban them, I'd sooner take players better than me to a ****ty stage for a free win. I have no problems with abusing gimmicks, degenerate play, and jank stages.

 

[otter]

I spend hours learning jank stages, because I know that nobody else bothers to practice on them. They'd sooner ban them, I'd sooner take players better than me to a ****ty stage for a free win. I have no problems with abusing gimmicks, degenerate play, and jank stages.

Oh I agree. When Brawl came out I had to play this Samus that was way better than me, so I went to Rainbow Cruise as Pit and just ran around and won. many salt.

Problem is I don't know how to "learn" a stage or comprehend how my opponent will feel about it.

 

[Vixen]

Most players are vehemently against jank stages.

You learn it by playing on it a lot. You become comfortable with it the way you become comfortable with a character. the stages gimmicks become ingrained in your brain. you expect it. you know all the small nuances of how they work.

 

[Nguz95]

Skyloft is an excellent example of this. The stairs mess up tether grabs, so you can punish people like Lucas when they throw out their snake.

 

[Vixen]

Skyloft is pretty good for Pit.

 

[FrootLoop]

Beat kels last tournament but then lost to wolf

Pit's throw combos are soooo good

 

[otter]

Whoa DDDs worst match up could potentially be pit so don't count him out yet

My friend started maining DDD, I now see why people are having trouble! DDD has complete dominance off of the stage, and waddle doods can create a wall against arrows. Pit can stand up to him in close range but it just isn't comfortable.

Why do you think DDD has trouble with pit?

also, **** mario.

 

[FrootLoop]

I am pretty sure arrow spam wrecks DDD. None of the DDDs I've played had anything to play around it.

 

[BlinkIV]

Lol, now that I'm back with Pit. DDD is so free, like. If you're losing to a D3 as Pit, something is obviously wrong. Otherwise, glad to be back, and glad to see new Pit players.

 

[5-oNe]

i take alot of people to skyworld if they dont ban it.lol.i love it as pit.people get caught when trying to recover and usually dont know what to expect out of the clouds.also the blast zones and ceiling is huge so u can live for quite awhile.but that also means u have to get your gimps to make it really useful

 

[5-oNe]

Beat kels last tournament but then lost to wolf

Pit's throw combos are soooo good

also i saw that.we are like complete opposites.i can not beat kels when he is fox but have no trouble with scythe and rat when they are wolf.lol.

 

[Sharkz]

So uh, I'm sure this a known thing, but I haven't seen anyone talk about it ever so I'll put it here just in case.
Very similar to how Pit's up-b was in SSBB, if you use Wings of Icarus (side-b) while on the ground you can use it again in the air after you have finished, which is very handy for edgeguarding.
I'm assuming this is an obvious thing, but I have never seen anyone use it before...
What applications do y'all have for this? I'm mostly using it for edgehogging atm.

 

[FrootLoop]

oh cool I didn't know that's how you got the double glide, I was getting it sometimes and not others and not understanding why.