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Should We Genetically Modify our Children?

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Ryan Ludovic

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It's becomming more and more possible to modify and control aspects of our unborn children. As we move into the future, should the options of this exist?

We should move past the primitave birth process, and embrace the idea of genetic modification in our children. We can prevent diseases, birth defects, and lengthen our lifespan greatly.

What is your opinions PG?
 

GoldShadow

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I like this topic, and in order to stimulate some discussion and debate (hopefully!), here are a few points to consider on the subject (certainly not limited to these though):

-Permanent vs transient modification (aka germ-line vs somatic cell modification) - the topic as presented by Ryan Ludovic is obviously about germ-line modification, ie modifying unborn children before they are born. But on the other end of the spectrum is temporary modification; gene therapy, things like that. Is one better than the other?

-Prevention vs Enhancement - A lot of people don't have as much of a problem with modifying unborn children to prevent genetic, crippling diseases. What about enhancement? Longer lifespans, bigger muscles, smarter brains, etc. Should there be a line drawn somewhere? Is it okay to do both, or is prevention more acceptable than enhancement?

-The idea of "designer babies"

-Access to the new technologies (ie, rich vs poor)

-The possible morally reprehensible consequences of withholding this kind of technology (ie, if we can make better firefighters or doctors, isn't it wrong not to?)

-The ethics of how it might affect human agency; in other words, choosing things for children before they're born
 

Sucumbio

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-Permanent vs transient modification (aka germ-line vs somatic cell modification) - the topic as presented by Ryan Ludovic is obviously about germ-line modification, ie modifying unborn children before they are born. But on the other end of the spectrum is temporary modification; gene therapy, things like that. Is one better than the other?
Germline gene modification is definitely not a good idea for several reasons: source

...germ cell modification may produce effects that were not predicted, and may not reveal themselves until the child is grown, or in future generations. Germ cell modification not only influence the single offspring, but create unique DNA that will persist into subsequent generations. Prenatal diagnosis permits specific pregnancies to be evaluated for genetic fitness. Manipulation of germ-cell DNA is unnecessary and potentially dangerous.

It's too unpredictable, and could lead to damaged offspring or worse larger scale deterioration of the human gene pool which could ultimately lead to our extinction (though that's really far fetched in comparison, it's technically a possibility). At least w/somatic techniques (homologous recombination, Spindle transfer, etc.) any risk is to that one person.

-Prevention vs Enhancement - A lot of people don't have as much of a problem with modifying unborn children to prevent genetic, crippling diseases. What about enhancement? Longer lifespans, bigger muscles, smarter brains, etc. Should there be a line drawn somewhere? Is it okay to do both, or is prevention more acceptable than enhancement?
The prevention of genetic disease would be amazing, though in the short term may put a lot of folks out of work, in the long term would lead to a strengthening of the human gene pool. Here's a LONG list of disorders. If we were to eliminate all these abnormalities, we would definitely be "healthier" as a species.

The flip to this is that Humanity often requires limitation to be overcome... that struggle is what we find so compelling in life, and what gives birth to creativity and ingenuity. By eliminating say, color blindness, we eliminate the possibility for someone to be born that way, to see the world as uniquely as they, and anything they may contribute to the world as a result.

Well, ok. Honestly and for the sake of our survival, I am willing to sacrifice one or two artsy poems on how one person's black is an others green. Not to be insensitive, but... you have to be an artist to think that way in the first place, and there will be PLENTY of struggle, angst, and whatnot to satisfy the needs of a minority. The rest of humanity would like to stop seeing half-man half-machines drooling on themselves.

So much for the Special Olympics, tho... ah well.

-The idea of "designer babies"
... disgusts me. If you can't make it naturally, it wasn't meant to exist. Not until we've come a LOT further with technology and our understanding thereof can we consider ourselves mature enough in this regard to even THINK about making our babies from scratch as opposed to the old-fashioned way (by letting nature take its course). This is NOT related to disease prevention, btw, at least not to me. This is about making the eyes blue, the hair blond... its bordering on eugenics, and that is fundamentally and for lack of a better word... evil.

-Access to the new technologies (ie, rich vs poor)
As gene therapy becomes more useful, and tried and true, so too will the cost of such treatments reduce. source

In this article we see that 3 people injected w/a virus carrying "good" genes were able to produce the necessary protein compounds they were born deficient of. Now if we go w/the above, we could possibly eliminate the problem from the get-go. But, it may not be this simple. Depending on how the research goes, screening and treatment of the unborn may actually still be far more costly than after-the-fact. With this article we see the potential for a simple battery of injections that result in a total cure of the disease. If caught early enough in a person's life, this could help prevent long term ailments, such as organ failure. And the cost need not necessarily be huge. Walgreens charges 25 bucks or so for a flu shot. I see this being the same for gene-therapy shots, once the process is mastered (note: many Flu vaccines are still experimental).

-The possible morally reprehensible consequences of withholding this kind of technology (ie, if we can make better firefighters or doctors, isn't it wrong not to?)

-The ethics of how it might affect human agency; in other words, choosing things for children before they're born
I can lump these together though this is a highly subjective area to debate. The problem with making super-cops or super-soldiers or super-anything is that you are transforming the person into a higher being. An enhanced being. It's unfair to everyone else that's not enhanced, and it leads to a separation at a fundamental level that we cannot yet even quantify, except in theory or in historical context. Turning men into Gods in other words... purposefully... creating people who could theoretically develop so-called "God" complexes.

I mean sure, you take a ... firefighter, and genetically enhance him so he can carry more, withstand heat better, etc etc. But isn't it possible that these supermen could find themselves outcasts... "freaks" ... or worse, maybe the try to take control! It's a slippery slope I'd rather not traverse. Too scary.

As for doing it to people before their even born? Eh, yeah no. Same evil as making designer babies. Almost the same as the evil in abortion that is perceived by pro-lifers (not my stance, btw.) It may seem an obvious choice. "What, you DON'T wanna have x-ray vision???" But to assume that's what we want, is to assume you're God, once again, and that's just bad. You don't even have to believe in God really, just the idea that our biology is predetermined by our genes and DNA, and that this predetermination was created in Nature. True, Humans, as a result of Nature (evolution), are self-determining. However, we cannot afford ourselves the luxury of assuming we know what's best for us at the genetic level. We can fix problems we perceive, sure... but to change our very nature, our humanity, into something Extra-human, is dangerous, and foolhardy, and can almost only end badly.
 
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I personally think not. It would be only the rich could afford. Not only that, this leaves room for more mistakes to be made. What if you're genetically modifying your child but something bad happens?
 

Bob Jane T-Mart

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If access is a problem you can always socialize it.
In fact, the government could subsidise it. It may even prove to be cheaper in the long run, if we weeded out al the bad genes that were detrimental to the health of the people that had them. It'd lower the need for doctors, nurses etc. to treat such diseases and consequently lower this could lower the cost of healthcare for the government. This is all hypothesising at the moment, it depends very much on the cost of genetically modifying our kids.
 

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Personally, I'm somewhat against it.

I think it's understandable to stop diseases and other terrible defects.

However, to make one child appear taller? Or for them to have blonde hair? Longer life span? Better at sports??

Outrageous. Never ever. Don't like it.

"Sorry son. I wouldn't like you the way you would have been, so I'm changing you for more of my liking."
It's extremely silly. Why do you want your kid to "look good" or to be the very best he could be. Why not accept him or her for whomever they'll become.

I can lump these together though this is a highly subjective area to debate. The problem with making super-cops or super-soldiers or super-anything is that you are transforming the person into a higher being. An enhanced being. It's unfair to everyone else that's not enhanced, and it leads to a separation at a fundamental level that we cannot yet even quantify, except in theory or in historical context. Turning men into Gods in other words... purposefully... creating people who could theoretically develop so-called "God" complexes.
Yes. This makes sense. Super kid or regular kid? We're messing with things we shouldn't. Not only would it not be fair it could totally back-fire. We have a super kid who think, "Hey. I'm the only super kid in the world. What am I doing working for others that aren't super?" What stops them from doing whatever he or she wants?
Then what are we going to do? Make more super kids? Then have a war of super kids? So great. We have the most powerful human beings in the world fighting over control and causing havoc.

Leave humans for the way they are. Don't make them super powerful, or run at the speed of light.

All in all. It's messy and shouldn't be dealt with.
 

Dre89

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One problem with the super cops etc. is that you've transformed that person into a means to an end rather than and end in themself.

I disagree with genetic modification, because the vision seems to have no boundaries. The ultimate goal appears to be to remove all suffering, but as strange as it sounds suffering is a natural good, it is a necessity (note suffering is not to be confused with moral evil, which is a potential, not a necessity).
 

Bob Jane T-Mart

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One problem with the super cops etc. is that you've transformed that person into a means to an end rather than and end in themself.
Good point... Very good point.

I disagree with genetic modification, because the vision seems to have no boundaries. The ultimate goal appears to be to remove all suffering, but as strange as it sounds suffering is a natural good, it is a necessity (note suffering is not to be confused with moral evil, which is a potential, not a necessity).
I don't see what you mean, isn't removing unnecessary pain a good thing? Painkillers, are they evil?

Also, we're never really going to be able to remove all pain, because it is necessary for our survival. See, if we removed all pain from one individual, he'd probably die very soon, not realising that he's bleeding to death, from stabbing himself by accident or something, I don't think genetic modification would bother doing that.
 

GoldShadow

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Here's a thought:

Why is modification bad? Is it because it enhances us and reduces suffering?

If so, then why are things like vaccines, modern medicine, and the separation of sewage from drinking water any different? Shouldn't we just let viruses, disease and 'nature' take their course, then?
 

Dre89

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Here's a thought:

Why is modification bad? Is it because it enhances us and reduces suffering?

If so, then why are things like vaccines, modern medicine, and the separation of sewage from drinking water any different? Shouldn't we just let viruses, disease and 'nature' take their course, then?
Firstly the mix of water and sewage was a problem humanity created for itself in the first place, so that's not really relevant.

I'm not against technological advancements, because we are obviously meant to develop technology, otherwise we wouldn't have the capacity and inclination to do so.

What I am against is technology is being developed to corrupt a natural process. Take footwear for example, it was invented to prevent pain and discomfort when a person is travelling. The goal of travelling is to get from point A to B, it's not to experience pain in your feet. Footwear, by the criteria I've put across, is acceptable, because it removes the suffering, because the suffering was only a consequence of the natural goal, it was not part of the goal itself.

Something like contraception is different however. The natural process of sex is that sexual stimulation entices people into the act, resulting in procreation. Cotnraception removes the procreation and makes the sexual stimulation or gratification the end or goal. In this case, by my criteria technology has been misused as it is corrupting a natural process.

The issue I have is that the goal of this genetic modification is to remove suffering all together, but suffering is a necessity to human life and flourishment.
 

BSP

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-Permanent vs transient modification (aka germ-line vs somatic cell modification) - the topic as presented by Ryan Ludovic is obviously about germ-line modification, ie modifying unborn children before they are born. But on the other end of the spectrum is temporary modification; gene therapy, things like that. Is one better than the other?
I think that they're both acceptable practices. For example, if we can remove oncogenes and such that cause defects, diseases,etc. I think the permanent modification would be a great breakthrough. Ridding the human race of these defects would ensure that everyone if the future would have much more chance of survival. However, on the other hand, gene therapy could be used to fix any problems without, posssibly, removing the chance of threats altogether. It seems that permanent modification would be better if we could permanently make our genes have no chances of inheriting cancer, or other defects.

-Prevention vs Enhancement - A lot of people don't have as much of a problem with modifying unborn children to prevent genetic, crippling diseases. What about enhancement? Longer lifespans, bigger muscles, smarter brains, etc. Should there be a line drawn somewhere? Is it okay to do both, or is prevention more acceptable than enhancement?
I think prevention is obviously a great use for this technology and is absolutely ok. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with helping to ensure the future is a brighter place with less disease, etc. For enhancement, I'll answer it with another question: Why not?

Is there something wrong with having longer lives and all the things Goldshadow mentioned? No, there isn't really. However, one possible problem is the availability of these enhancements. For example, since white Americans generally have more income than Black Americans, what if mostly whites could access these enhancements? This would surely cause problems, creating "superior" races while leaving others behind, but sadly, life isn't fair. Personally, (although this may be a little idealistic) I think we should make the enhancements as affordable as possible, but of course, that's easier said than done. This single issue could be the bane of enhancements, and I believe that they shouldn't be allowed for this reason.

-The idea of "designer babies"
I would say no. If these "designer" babies included enhancement, I'd be against them, since they could cause mass chaos, riots, etc. I still think that prevention is acceptable though.

-Access to the new technologies (ie, rich vs poor)
I've already gone into this. For enhancement, until it was widely affordable, I'd say no. For prevention, I think it should go into effect regardless, the reason being that we already have prevention programs available, yet not everyone can afford them. Making gene-altering prevention not available since everyone can't afford it would make plenty of other arguements about our other prevetion treatments viable.

-The possible morally reprehensible consequences of withholding this kind of technology (ie, if we can make better firefighters or doctors, isn't it wrong not to?)
This is going into pro vs. con. It's a very good question, but on the other side, people will be asking, "Why does he get to be improved? Just because he's a firefighter? I do X job, why can't I have a better X since it would help me?" You get the idea. It would be extremely difficult to resolve.

-The ethics of how it might affect human agency; in other words, choosing things for children before they're born
Like I said, I think that preventing a defect for a child would certainly be acceptable, but enhancement is a different story, which in this case, would be like making the child tall so he'd be good at Basketball.
 

Bob Jane T-Mart

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Something like contraception is different however. The natural process of sex is that sexual stimulation entices people into the act, resulting in procreation. Cotnraception removes the procreation and makes the sexual stimulation or gratification the end or goal. In this case, by my criteria technology has been misused as it is corrupting a natural process.
I'm going to pick on you here, but what about getting sick? Is that considered a natural process?

Furthermore, the idea of sex's purpose is a little odd. I am firmly of the belief that we give our lives purpose, that there is no purpose bestowed upon us. It's like a soccer game, you can play it for money (as the pros do), fun (I do), exercise (I do), to catch up with mates, (some do), for pride, etc. Basically, you give the soccer game purpose, whether for fun, money, exercise, whatever, but everyone can still play, in the same games, even with different purposes!

The issue I have is that the goal of this genetic modification is to remove suffering all together, but suffering is a necessity to human life and flourishment.
Is it?
 

Bob Jane T-Mart

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Suffering is what shapes a person into who he or she becomes.
My quarrel is different. Is the ultimate goal of genetic modification to remove all suffering? I don't think that is actually possible, or the ultimate goal of genetic modification.
 

Dre89

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I'm going to pick on you here, but what about getting sick? Is that considered a natural process?
Sickness is a corruption of one's health, health being a natural good. The pursuit of health is natural, therefore there's nothing wrong with trying to remove sickness.

Furthermore, the idea of sex's purpose is a little odd. I am firmly of the belief that we give our lives purpose, that there is no purpose bestowed upon us. It's like a soccer game, you can play it for money (as the pros do), fun (I do), exercise (I do), to catch up with mates, (some do), for pride, etc. Basically, you give the soccer game purpose, whether for fun, money, exercise, whatever, but everyone can still play, in the same games, even with different purposes!

But the object of all football matches is to win.

The idea of sex I put forward is in modern society because the society has lost all sense of moral integrity. Morality in modern society isn't considered intrinsic to human nature, or the perfection of our natural being, it is merely considered preserving social order. That's why there's so many relativists nowadays, saying that they give their lives their own purpose, because the society has lead them to believe that morality is only social laws, and those laws change from culture to culture.

If my idea of morality was still so reduced and uninformed as the modern one I'd probably be a relativist by now too.
 

Bob Jane T-Mart

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Sickness is a corruption of one's health, health being a natural good. The pursuit of health is natural, therefore there's nothing wrong with trying to remove sickness.
Okay, I guess you've answered that fairly well. Yet still, isn't getting ill a natural process?

But the object of all football matches is to win.
It really depends who you ask. I don't play soccer for the win. I play it, because it's fun to play, and it makes me feel good when I do something great. I like winning yes, but honestly, it's not the point of playing soccer.

The idea of sex I put forward is in modern society because the society has lost all sense of moral integrity. Morality in modern society isn't considered intrinsic to human nature, or the perfection of our natural being, it is merely considered preserving social order.
I personally believe morality is intrinsic to human nature, it's just that it varies between people, that's why we have disagreements about abortion or whatever. Almost all of us want the best for the world, and themselves.

My point lies in the fact, that humans seemed to have derived their morals from evolutionary processes. This means that, by far the majority of humans have a sense of morality, it's just that this sense varies between person to person.

That's why there's so many relativists nowadays, saying that they give their lives their own purpose, because the society has lead them to believe that morality is only social laws, and those laws change from culture to culture.
Well, that's secular humanism... They believe don't really believe in "natural goods", but do believe in working for the greater good.

If my idea of morality was still so reduced and uninformed as the modern one I'd probably be a relativist by now too.
Well, I see no reason to suggest that there is an objective morality. I suppose my view about morality is "reduced and uninformed".
 

Dre89

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Okay, I guess you've answered that fairly well. Yet still, isn't getting ill a natural process?
It may be natural, but it is still the corurption of a natural state (human health) and it is natural to remedy this. That's what pain is for, to inform you of when your good is being corrupted.

It really depends who you ask. I don't play soccer for the win. I play it, because it's fun to play, and it makes me feel good when I do something great. I like winning yes, but honestly, it's not the point of playing soccer.
But the structure of the game entails that you attempt to win. Your motivations are what varies.

I personally believe morality is intrinsic to human nature, it's just that it varies between people, that's why we have disagreements about abortion or whatever. Almost all of us want the best for the world, and themselves.
What you're saying is that it is intrinsic to conceive of morality. I'm arguing that our nature depicts a universal mroality.

My point lies in the fact, that humans seemed to have derived their morals from evolutionary processes. This means that, by far the majority of humans have a sense of morality, it's just that this sense varies between person to person.

Well, that's secular humanism... They believe don't really believe in "natural goods", but do believe in working for the greater good.


Well, I see no reason to suggest that there is an objective morality. I suppose my view about morality is "reduced and uninformed".
I covered all this in the abortion thread.
 

Bob Jane T-Mart

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It may be natural, but it is still the corurption of a natural state (human health) and it is natural to remedy this. That's what pain is for, to inform you of when your good is being corrupted.
I see, that's fairly consistent. But that didn't really answer the question: Is the ultimate goal of genetic modification to remove all suffering?

But the structure of the game entails that you attempt to win. Your motivations are what varies.
Yes, but playing a game for solely purpose of winning is rather boring. Most people will play to achieve something else. That is the game's "purpose" for them.

No-one actually plays just for that win, otherwise, we'd get people playing to win in ridiculously easy games, where the outcome is almost certain.

What you're saying is that it is intrinsic to conceive of morality. I'm arguing that our nature depicts a universal mroality.
Okay, fair enough. I don't really buy the whole universal morality, I'm a moral consequentialist. Following natural law is all fine and good, but what if it led to do undesirable consequences? eg. To procreate is natural, but what if it lead to overpopulation, which is undesirable?

I covered all this in the abortion thread.
I guess so.
 

Dre89

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I see, that's fairly consistent. But that didn't really answer the question: Is the ultimate goal of genetic modification to remove all suffering?



Yes, but playing a game for solely purpose of winning is rather boring. Most people will play to achieve something else. That is the game's "purpose" for them.

No-one actually plays just for that win, otherwise, we'd get people playing to win in ridiculously easy games, where the outcome is almost certain.



Okay, fair enough. I don't really buy the whole universal morality, I'm a moral consequentialist. Following natural law is all fine and good, but what if it led to do undesirable consequences? eg. To procreate is natural, but what if it lead to overpopulation, which is undesirable?



I guess so.
But regardless of your motive in playing football, you don't just go and deliberately score an own goal everytime. People play brawl for different reasons, but the object of the match is always to win. Winning may not be your upmost priority, but that's just the structure of the game, people don't play Brawl just to deliberately SD 3 times over in a match. Anyway it's irrelevant to the discussion.

Most my answers to this are covered in the abortion thread, but with regards to genetic modification, it does seem that that is what the goal is. It may not seem achievable now, but with all the modifications that we're talking about here, I can't see where they're going to draw the line.
 

GoldShadow

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The issue I have is that the goal of this genetic modification is to remove suffering all together, but suffering is a necessity to human life and flourishment.
Can you justify this?

There are thousands of people in Africa suffering from malnourishment, famine, and diseases like malaria and HIV. Are you suggesting this is "a necessity to human life and flourishment"? I think it would seem like the opposite.

And getting back to the point, isn't most modern medicine and medical science designed to reduce suffering in some way? Is that a bad thing?
 

BOB SAGET!

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I guess what Dre is trying to say is that suffering/problems pushes human beings to come up with ideas to solve suffering. IF it weren't for this suffering our modern medicine wouldn't have been improved so much over the last 20 years. Problems with the environment has caused humans to come up with new ideas to reduce the amount of energy and polluton our machines use.

Though if there was no suffering we wouldn't need to be as intelligent to survive. Though I doubt genetic modification will completely solve this problem.
 

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Thanks for trying to defend me but that really wasn't what I was trying to say.

I feel bad doing this because you were defending me, but your argument is circular in that by your logic we only need intelligence to prevent suffering, so if suffering didn't exist yes we wouldn't be as intelligent or advanced, but we wouldn't need to be either.
 

BOB SAGET!

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I wasnt really trying to argue on how one point is right or not. I was just trying to expand on what i thought u meant and show how ur both right and wrong.
 

Dre89

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What I'm saying is that suffering is there to alert us of an undesireable state. Once that suffering is acknowledged, it is no longer needed, because the person has been alerted to the undesireable state, which is why it is good to develop cures etc.

Removing suffering altogether means we won't acknowledge unnatural states. In fact, not being able to suffer at all is an unnatural state itself.

I know in such a secular world people only care about outcomes and not principles, but it's really altering the natural state of being human.
 

Lore

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What I'm saying is that suffering is there to alert us of an undesireable state. Once that suffering is acknowledged, it is no longer needed, because the person has been alerted to the undesireable state, which is why it is good to develop cures etc.

Removing suffering altogether means we won't acknowledge unnatural states. In fact, not being able to suffer at all is an unnatural state itself.
So you're saying that we absolutely need suffering in order to know when something is wrong? If I have a dark green mark which doesn't hurt on my stomach, I should know that that isn't a normal condition.

If we can remove suffering through our technology, then we might be able to stop other forms of suffering as they start instead of waiting until many people are affected.

I know in such a secular world people only care about outcomes and not principles, but it's really altering the natural state of being human.
Principles are still important, and so is common sense.

Besides that, random mutations, gene combinations, and the rising level of technology and medicine have "altered the natural state of being human" more than we ever will.
 

GoldShadow

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Removing suffering altogether means we won't acknowledge unnatural states. In fact, not being able to suffer at all is an unnatural state itself.

I know in such a secular world people only care about outcomes and not principles, but it's really altering the natural state of being human.
Who says religion has a monopoly on morality and principles?

Moreover, what is "natural"? What is "unnatural"? By medieval standards, we would hardly be considered "natural". Also, why is it so important to be "natural"? Is "natural" such a good thing?
 

BSP

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I know in such a secular world people only care about outcomes and not principles, but it's really altering the natural state of being human.
As we speak, the human race isn't natural. If we were really natural, we'd all go around naked, we wouldn't have or improve technology, etc. If genetic modification could rid us of things like cancer, would you oppose it since it's not how we came originally?
 

Dre89

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I've answered that argument a hundred times.

Technology is fine because it was always natural for humans to develop it.

As long as it doesn't corrupt any natural goals it is fine.

things like cancer corrupt the natural state of health, and since preserving health is a natural good, it is ok to fight cancer.
 

Lore

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I've answered that argument a hundred times.

Technology is fine because it was always natural for humans to develop it.

As long as it doesn't corrupt any natural goals it is fine.

things like cancer corrupt the natural state of health, and since preserving health is a natural good, it is ok to fight cancer.
Ok then. I'm not going to argue any more until you give me a clear definition of what is "natural." Go ahead, I'll wait.

Until I see otherwise, your whole argument seems to be a vague definition of what is natural that is easily reinterpreted to fit the debate.

You didn't answer my first point or any of Goldshadow's points, and I would love to see a response for them.
 

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In case you're not aware, I'm currently debating 3 people in the homosexuality thread lol.

I've explained my definition of what is natural several times in other threads. I just did it recently in the homosexuality thread if you wanna look there, but the last thing I need is another person giving me arguments to refute.
 

Lore

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In case you're not aware, I'm currently debating 3 people in the homosexuality thread lol.
In case you're not aware, it isnt a good idea to post until you're completely through responding lol.

I've explained my definition of what is natural several times in other threads. I just did it recently in the homosexuality thread if you wanna look there, but the last thing I need is another person giving me arguments to refute.
So you expect everyone to use unrelated threads as a reference when you use that word?

I'm ok with looking at other threads, but, unless the process has completely changed, it isn't very hard to copy and paste.
 

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But I made the posts in this thread before I got into the big debate in the homosexuality thread, then someone refuted them recently, so it's not as if I deliberately tried to get involved in two threads at once.
 

Lore

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But I made the posts in this thread before I got into the big debate in the homosexuality thread, then someone refuted them recently, so it's not as if i deliberately tried to get involved in two threads at once.
That's not the point.

You can't just say a really short response and excuse it later with "Oh, I'm in a bigger debate right now lol." You either need to wait and type out a full response or say that you will do it later in the same post as the short response.

Edit: and you ignored my second point.
 

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My point was that at the time when I posted it, I wasn't in a bigger debate.

If I had known I was going to end up being in one, I wouldn't have said anything here.

I'd rather keep it as brief as possible, and see what people have trouble understanding, then explain it to them, rather than unecessarily explain it in its entirety if it doesn't need to be, that's very time consuming.

Again, if I had known I would be in a bigger debate I wouldn't have posted here.
 

Lore

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My point was that at the time when I posted it, I wasn't in a bigger debate.

If I had known I was going to end up being in one, I wouldn't have said anything here.
I guess it's excusable this time, but try to wait to post until you can complete your response, ok?

I'd rather keep it as brief as possible, and see what people have trouble understanding, then explain it to them, rather than unecessarily explain it in its entirety if it doesn't need to be, that's very time consuming.
It may be less time consuming, but it's also bad debate technique. Try to find a balance between over explaining and not explaining much.
 
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This may or may not be a restate of what people have previously said, but genetically modifying our children will have backfires, as anyone with a mind able to comprehend the Law of Unintended Consequences would know.

Firstly, I find the subject a bit difficult to delve into considering it is so broad.

I am usually a very specific type of person, and I need a little more to properly discuss or debate.

As in, genetically modify them how? In what ways would we do so?
Would we alter immune systems?
Would we alter phenotypes?
Would we alter growth patterns?
...And a multitude of other questions.

I could possibly discuss any of the above questions.
Firstly, modifying them in the fields of the immune system would have its consequences in different ways. Besides, viruses are always mutating, and there are always bacterial infections that break through our bodily defences nonetheless. Improving immune system health may render them "invincible" to some diseases, but not others. True, they may (considering this is theoretical as of now) be immune to the most common forms of the common cold and be immune to many typical bacterial afflictions, yet there may be other diseases that would still break through.
Also, with the enhancement of our immune systems, there are always bacteria and viruses evolving and mutating in order to cope with our immune systems.

And that's just the beginning, I surmise.
 
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