Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[Red Arremer]

@Roster size:
Okay. Let's add to Thinkaman's argument.

The tournament placings in Melee are made up by 36% of the roster, so that's roughly a third (9 out of 25). Brawl's tournament placings are made up by 49% of the roster (18 out of 37), not counting the "Nine Others", which would then result in 73% of the roster (27 out of 37).

 

[Kamikaze*]

I doubt their thinking of anything other then what move to kill you with.



Fixed

No weaknesses huh? Lets see:

-He's lightweight (Don't bring up his recovery because that wont help him when it comes to vertical KO's)

-His evasive manuvers are overall god awful. His shield is small, and his roll barely goes any distance. Spot dodge isn't that bod but not thhat good either.

-God awful aerial movement

 

[RDK]

Sorry but that **** is kinda hard to take seriously when you're the only one who didn't get it yet you're still calling me a dumb ***.

Hey, troll less like an arse next time.

What are you even talking about? We wouldn't be having this discussion if you could understand a simple post. To anyone who isn't a Neanderthal d4bA was clearly making an anti-ban point.

@Roster size:
Okay. Let's add to Thinkaman's argument.

The tournament placings in Melee are made up by 36% of the roster, so that's roughly a third (9 out of 25). Brawl's tournament placings are made up by 49% of the roster (18 out of 37), not counting the "Nine Others", which would then result in 73% of the roster (27 out of 37).

Go back to my post where I explain the difference in counterpick mechanics, because you've still missed the point.

 

[ROOOOY!]

@Roster size:
Okay. Let's add to Thinkaman's argument.

The tournament placings in Melee are made up by 36% of the roster, so that's roughly a third (9 out of 25). Brawl's tournament placings are made up by 49% of the roster (18 out of 37), not counting the "Nine Others", which would then result in 73% of the roster (27 out of 37).

Spadefox, quit getting on topic. Judging by RDK's theatrics, this is just one big ad hominum session with flat-out refusal to make any valid points or any contributions to the topic. I'm that inspired by him I my start myself.

You're a *** lol.

====================

No but seriously, do we have any tournament dominance placings from melee at around the life-span Brawl's at now?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

@ Kamikaze:

He doesn't need aerial movement when his aerials have so much **** range.

His aerials are so fast that they help immensely with with his DI.

He doesn't need good evasive maneuvers, he has moves that go through so much crap it's laughable.

His weaknesses for the most part are covered by his strengths.

 

[shmo395]

MK if you ask me doesn't have better odds than everyone in the game, but he does have better odds against like 90% of the others in my opinion. I think Pit (who is underrated) can beat metaknight probably better than anyone else can. he has fast moves, an Ok recovery (blue wings suck ****, they are asking for a gimp/meteor) and an awesome spam (MK hates that ) And No, i dont think he should be banned

 

[Red Arremer]

No but seriously, do we have any tournament dominance placings from melee at around the life-span Brawl's at now?

Sheik ***** a lot.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

MK if you ask me doesn't have better odds than everyone in the game, but he does have better odds against like 90% of the others in my opinion. I think Pit (who is underrated) can beat metaknight probably better than anyone else can. he has fast moves, an Ok recovery (blue wings suck ****, they are asking for a gimp/meteor) and an awesome spam (MK hates that ) And No, i dont think he should be banned

Really?

Get your head out of the Prima guide and come to a tourney, then see if that's true.

 

[Kamikaze*]

MK if you ask me doesn't have better odds than everyone in the game, but he does have better odds against like 90% of the others in my opinion. I think Pit (who is underrated) can beat metaknight probably better than anyone else can. he has fast moves, an Ok recovery (blue wings suck ****, they are asking for a gimp/meteor) and an awesome spam (MK hates that ) And No, i dont think he should be banned

PIT?!?

You're making us anti-bans look bad. Lurk more.

Nado goes through just about anything pit can spam.

 

[RDK]

Spadefox, quit getting on topic. Judging by RDK's theatrics, this is just one big ad hominum session with flat-out refusal to make any valid points or any contributions to the topic. I'm that inspired by him I my start myself.

You're a *** lol.

Awesome! Let's just allow intelligent posts to go misrepresented, and use horrendously bad math in our arguments in order to win over people who don't have two brain cells to rub together. That'll definitely move this topic along!

Oh, wait! That's what's been going on for the entire thread. Silly me, trying to stop it!

 

[Sosuke]

Kamikazi made me spit out the water I was drinking

 

[Inui]

lmao @ people that don't do real tournaments

Pit sucks.

 

[Red Arremer]

Awesome! Let's just allow intelligent posts to go misrepresented, and use horrendously bad math in our arguments in order to win over people who don't have two brain cells to rub together. That'll definitely move this topic along!

Oh, wait! That's what's been going on for the entire thread. Silly me, trying to stop it!

What is "bad math" about it? It's just taking statistics.

 

[Kamikaze*]

Kamikazi made me spit out the water I was drinking

Good for you. Nobody cares. And spell my name right.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Kamikazi made me spit out the water I was drinking

No love for SOLID?

Pit sucks.

This.

 

[RDK]

What is "bad math" about it? It's just taking statistics.

Thinkaman's original post was bad math. But even when you corrected it you completely ignored several posts that addressed the strange counterpick mechanic Brawl has.

So saying Brawl has a wider range of characters that are able to be used in tournaments when compared with Melee still means next to nothing when you consider the large amount of hard and soft counters that make up the entire roster.

And it also doesn't take into account how old Brawl is compared to Melee.

 

[Sosuke]

<3 Solid.
No, I'm not going to put your name in all caps, thats dumb.

But MK IS lightweight. His aerials don't help THAT much.

 

[shebo]

I say yes, because MK is a character VERY good.

So, i think that Snake too

 

[Kamikaze*]

I say yes, because MK is a character VERY good.

So, i think that Snake too

Must..Resist...Urge

 

[Alus]

I say yes, because MK is a character VERY good.

So, i think that Snake too

GOD ****ING DAMMIT!

(Or are you being sarcastic?)

 

[Sosuke]

Why do you even give attention to people without an argument that joined smashboards like, THIS month? lol

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Why do you even give attention to people without an argument that joined smashboards like, THIS month? lol

Because it's more fun that way.


EDIT: At Sasuke's last post before this one: You don't have to all-caps-ify my name.

 

[Alus]

Why do you even give attention to people without an argument that joined smashboards like, THIS month? lol

I have a natural fear of people who don't give reasonable arguments.

 

[shmo395]

in japan, pits #1 fyi

 

[Red Arremer]

Thinkaman's original post was bad math. But even when you corrected it you completely ignored several posts that addressed the strange counterpick mechanic Brawl has.

That was because I was adressing the roster size being brought up. I didn't read the whole posting history because it's late here and I'm still a bit pissed off by PikaPika.

So saying Brawl has a wider range of characters that are able to be used in tournaments when compared with Melee still means next to nothing when you consider the large amount of hard and soft counters that make up the entire roster.

Many very balanced games - mainly Guilty Gear and Japan-only indie games like Monster or Immaterial and Missing Power - have a similar situation with the soft counters (hard counters less so since they're really balanced, lol) being all over the place of the roster. It doesn't make Brawl's roster less varied if it has hard counters for High Tier characters somewhere in Low Tier. If I remember correctly, Donkey Kong, a Low Tier character in Melee, was a counter to the Spacies.

And it also doesn't take into account how old Brawl is compared to Melee.

Melee's metagame is of course more advanced than Brawl's, but they still are not directly comparable due to the circumstances. Melee wasn't muchly explored and played competitively until 2005. Brawl hat a legion of Melee players ready to exploit the game and discover stuff.
Of course, Brawl's metagame is still young, but it made far more advances in this year it has been released now than Melee in the first year of beginning competitive gameplay.

in japan, pits #1 fyi

No he isn't, Pit is High Tier, but not the best character. That belongs to Meta Knight, too.
Here is the actual Japanese tier list:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231731

 

[Sosuke]

That Japanese Pit player is really good.
His arrows make me happy.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

in japan, pits #1 fyi

No, he isn't.

We're not in Japan, I'm not, and judging from your location neither are you.

So umm what's your point?

 

[Pez55]

I say yes, because MK is a character VERY good.

He's more on the lines of easy to use than good

So, i think that Snake too

Which is why MK shouldn't be banned because MK players will go to Snake.

in japan, pits #1 fyi

I really don't care

 

[Kamikaze*]

in japan, pits #1 fyi

But we're talking about the U.S metagame, lol.

 

[shmo395]

and yes he is, look 4 yourself. and dont matter where it is, im sayin metas beatable

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Pits #1 in japan fyi

Look at my last post.

 

[Sosuke]

He's more on the lines of easy to use than good



Which is why MK shouldn't be banned because MK players will go to Snake.

^
Perfect example of a post that you can easily rip to shreds, but you have to learn to restrain yourself. =P

 

[Alus]

Shmo is clearly a troll... EVERYONE PUT HIM ON YOUR IGNORE LIST!!!

 

[.AC.]

just wondering..can anybody tell me what the main points of the pro-ban side are?

 

[shmo395]

have you ever even faced a good Pit? when your below the stage you get owned by his arrows unless u got good recovery then you have time to air dodge n ****

 

[shmo395]

Shmo is clearly a troll... EVERYONE PUT HIM ON YOUR IGNORE LIST!!!

arnt you a fruit

 

[Pez55]

have you ever even faced a good Pit? when your below the stage you get owned by his arrows unless u got good recovery then you have time to air dodge n ****

1. Quote people's posts more often

2. Yes, I have faced a good Pit.

3. Don't double post

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

have you ever even faced a good Pit? when your below the stage you get owned by his arrows unless u got good recovery then you have time to air dodge n ****

Do you know how many disjointed hitboxes MK has that cancel out Pit's arrows?

And here's the Japanese Tier list, where Pit is clearly not 1st. He's 3rd, and THIS IS AMERICA.

SS:
Metaknight, Snake

S:
Falco, Pit

A:
Diddy, King Dedede, Marth, Fox, Mr. Game and Watch
Wario, Captain Olimar, Wolf, R.O.B, Lucario
B:
Zelda + Sheik, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus, Ice Climbers, Pikachu, Donkey Kong

C:
Peach, Kirby, Mario, Luigi, Ike

D:
Lucas, Bowser

E:
Link, Pokemon Trainer, Sonic, Jigglpuff

F:
Ness, Yoshi, Samus, Captain Falcon

G:
Ganondorf

 

[Alus]

just wondering..can anybody tell me what the main points of the pro-ban side are?

I did have a the summary of the entire argument in this thread somewhere...

Ill see if i can find it...later

have you ever even faced a good Pit? when your below the stage you get owned by his arrows unless u got good recovery then you have time to air dodge n ****

What the hell would you be doing below the stage VS pit?

 

[Botnik]

Odd how some people here think that MK doesn't fit the overcentralization criteria. If choosing MK as soon as your main gets beaten so that you can win the rest of the match isn't overcentalization around one character, I don't know what is.

Think about it. Items are banned because they overcentralize. The emphasis becomes placed on getting to the items before your opponent does. It's a completely different game than no-item Smash. The same logic applies to Meta Knight. Take him out of the equation and you have a completely different game with very different pick mechanics. Taking him out basically frees up all of the other characters that aren't played due to people just picking him instead of risking getting soft or hard countered.

And if tournament results don't already reflect that, they probably will in the future as Brawl's metagame becomes more advanced.