Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[Kamikaze*]

Kamikaze i think you are scared. If not that you posts have destroyed all the great posts of others and yuna who was doing a pretty good job until you showed up.


Also learn to mutiquote

How did my posts destroy others' posts?

Also, who the hell is yuna >_>

 

[CRASHiC]

Kamikaze was that quadruple post really necessary.

He's a Metaknight.
He's showing off his true combos.
Its required.

 

[deepseadiva]

The multi-quote button lets you quote multiple people, it's just below, here........... VVV

 

[Kamikaze*]

He's a Metaknight.
He's showing off his true combos.
Its required.

That joke was one of the worst jokes I have ever heard. Grow a fecking sense of humor.

Anyways lets get back on topic. MK is indeed the best character in the game. MK is indeed not broken considering he has like two even MU's. I see no problem. And meno, norfair is gay.

 

[Masmasher@]

Kamikaze i think alot of people are arguing about over centralization.

That joke was funny

 

[Kamikaze*]

Kamikaze i think alot of people are arguing about over centralization.

That joke was funny

Who the fack cares. Doesn't matter if it's MK vs MK. As long as you aren't banning someone that's not broken.

 

[Poltergust]

Actually, it does. If a game is all about one character, then that character is creating less diversity, which is grounds for a ban.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Who the fack cares. Doesn't matter if it's MK vs MK. As long as you aren't banning someone that's not broken.

If the game revolves around one character due to the nature of the character. He is ban worthy.

 

[Kamikaze*]

Actually, it does. If a game is all about one character, then that character is creating less diversity, which is grounds for a ban.

Does it NEED to have diversity to be competitive?

 

[Masmasher@]

Does it NEED to have diversity to be competitive?

Stop taking what others said out of context. no one said that.

 

[L666]

Does it NEED to have diversity to be competitive?

I could have eaten alphabits and crapped out a better response.

Without diversity, the game would be like rock paper scissors--the only option people have is Chuck Norris, it's ridiculous.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

mk won't ever be banned rofl, pointless topic like brawl match up "debates"

 

[Eddie G]

mk won't ever be banned rofl, pointless topic like brawl match up "debates"

NEO has spoken!

 

[Kamikaze*]

I could have eaten alphabits and crapped out a better response.

Without diversity, the game would be like rock paper scissors--the only option people have is Chuck Norris, it's ridiculous.

Nobody gives a feck about what you crap out.

Also, rock paper scissors = good game

i see no prob

 

[Coney]

NEO has spoken!

Well he's right. Unless there's an overwhelming shift in the popular opinion (like, everyone suddenly changes their votes from "Not Sure" to "Yes") there probably won't be a change. And even if that did happen with only a 60/40 split, it still probably wouldn't be enough--out of that 40 percent, 20 might very well leave. And to warrant the outright removal of a character is something the Smash community has never had to do, so I'd think the consensus would have to be overwhelming. Like, 80/20 for the ban.

I'm not rooting for either side, but I think APEX and Genesis results are supposed to be what's going to change minds. Which is silly, because the results are probably still going to have a lot of MK, either as a main or secondary. It's just a question of how much.

 

[L666]

Nobody gives a feck about what you crap out.

Don't be so uptight.

Also, rock paper scissors = good game

i see no prob

Chuck Norris!! GG
That's what happens every time.

I'm not rooting for either side

Even though you main MK?

 

[deepseadiva]

Does it NEED to have diversity to be competitive?

No one has yet to answer this.

As blunt as Kamikaze may be, he does bring up basic points needing answers. And even in a rather concise and easy to read format, if I may add.

 

[Kamikaze*]

Don't be so uptight.



Chuck Norris!! GG
That's what happens every time.

Do you realize how ******** chuck norris jokes are?

Mk isn't even that dominant. Like someone said. Only a 20% rate, so your dominance arguments suck harder than falcon.

 

[L666]

Do you realize how ******** chuck norris jokes are?

I know! I hate them with intensity, but that's how my rock paper scissors games always end.
Besides, it wasn't a joke. It was a response to your question as to whether or not diversity is necessary.

Mk isn't even that dominant. Like someone said. Only a 20% rate, so your dominance arguments suck harder than falcon.

I never made that argument, you did; I, for one, am anti-ban.

 

[-Ran]

I wish there was a way to break down the votes by...

- Who has gone to a tournament.
- Their main.
- Their average tournament placing.
- Their age.

 

[OmniOstrich]

I wish there was a way to break down the votes by...

- Who has gone to a tournament.
- Their main.
- Their average tournament placing.
- Their age.

And thats why we have b-rooms

 

[Coney]

Even though you main MK?

hahahah

i don't

 

[L666]

I wish there was a way to break down the votes by...

- Who has gone to a tournament.
- Their main.
- Their average tournament placing.
- Their age.

What do you expect to change?

hahahah

i don't

Your icon shows metaknight, though.

 

[Coney]

What do you expect to change?

The issue is that the results are skewed by several things:

- People who have never gone to tournaments and don't intend to. (my friend uses MK and always beats me, he's a big weiner and should be banned)
- People who have never gone to tournaments, but hope to and still want to influence the community. (i deserve a say in a community that i have no physical stake in, i am ENTITLED TO A POSITION)
- People who DO go to tournaments, but not often enough that they should be allowed to influence the community (I'm a part of this group, which is why I'm abstaining from voting).
- People who DO go to tournaments often and would lose to better players/characters anyway (people who don't place very well regardless of MK being there or not)
- People who main characters that Meta absolutely destroys, more interested in their own good than the good of the community. (with MK gone, my marth will rule the world)
- Duplicate/sock puppet accounts. (maybe?)

Stuff like that. You can argue that the INVISIBLE HAND is guiding these people to do what's best for them and, thusly, the entire community, but I'd wager a good amount of people who voted simply don't go to tournaments that often, and those that do go so rarely that MK overcentralization (or lack thereof) never really negatively impacts them--they'd lose to a Fox just as soon as an MK, if only due to matchup inexperience.

EDIT - And yes my icon shows MK. I'm not a SMASH SUPERSTAR so I don't fault you for not knowing that but it's ironic because of the recent fears that absolutely everyone will end up switching to MK if he sticks around. It's hilarious. Laugh.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Does it NEED to have diversity to be competitive?

Actually no.
To be TRULY competitive means using only one character, one stage.

The thing is though, the metagame dies when there is only one character.
So for the sake of keeping the metagame alive, if one character is overcentralizing he is banned.

 

[-Ran]

What do you expect to change?

It's more of an interest. During a vote it's nice to be able to view the trends. Do most people who don't go to tournaments want MK unbanned? Do people that are 13 and younger feel that MK should be banned? It makes the vote more telling, and allows you to cut through the noise.

The truth of the matter is that no vote is equal in importance. If 90% of the Tournament Organizers [let's say 200 people] vote for MK to not be banned, but 90% of the non tournament goers [1,000 people] vote for Mk to be banned... Which vote do you think is going to be worth more?

 

[L666]

It's more of an interest. During a vote it's nice to be able to view the trends. Do most people who don't go to tournaments want MK unbanned? Do people that are 13 and younger feel that MK should be banned? It makes the vote more telling, and allows you to cut through the noise.

The truth of the matter is that no vote is equal in importance. If 90% of the Tournament Organizers [let's say 200 people] vote for MK to not be banned, but 90% of the non tournament goers [1,000 people] vote for Mk to be banned... Which vote do you think is going to be worth more?

In short, you think that it will be more skewed towards anti-ban.

No one has yet to answer this.

As blunt as Kamikaze may be, he does bring up basic points needing answers. And even in a rather concise and easy to read format, if I may add.

Without diversity, Brawl would die––balance is necessary, not extremity.

 

[-Ran]

No. I was pulling the numbers at random. You're talking to a TO that has banned MK at two tournaments thus far, and lives in a state that essentially has a soft ban on MK. The point is that there isn't voting equivalence and thus polls such as this aren't worth much without additional data.

 

[Masmasher@]

No one has yet to answer this.

As blunt as Kamikaze may be, he does bring up basic points needing answers. And even in a rather concise and easy to read format, if I may add.

Tact is needed and kamikaze has shown none of that.
He strawmanned the overcentralization argument to bring up diversity again as if we are hoping to raise all tier. Yuna talked about this a while back and if he wasn't so lazy in his posting he wouldn't be asking that.

I already told him the scene would die with overcentralization. The worst possible solution would be MK Vs MK. a degenerate game below Rock paper scissors.

He says let the community die if it came to that worst possible scenario because we shouldnt ban metaknight because hes not broken.


I tell him no one is saying we are banning him pinpointed on being broken.

It goes in circles

Overcentralization means that it becomes metaknights game. We are in a way essentially not playing smash brothers any more it defeats the rule set and trancends the community eventually destroying it.

If you want rock paper scissors go play it then. The game hasnt gotten that bad.. yet

Kamikaze is saying that meta knight is cancer but we shouldnt cut him loose even if it spreads and eventually infects and destroys the rest of the body. If you feel that way kamkaze then go with your friends and play meta knight dittos. the rest can move on.



Wheres this 20% dominance rate statistic hes talking about.

 

[L666]

No. I was pulling the numbers at random. You're talking to a TO that has banned MK at two tournaments thus far, and lives in a state that essentially has a soft ban on MK. The point is that there isn't voting equivalence and thus polls such as this aren't worth much without additional data.

Understood: you have no guess.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

Edit: I'm totally late to the party. That's what I get for getting distracted while typing up a post.

Banning meta is unethical as feck considering people have worked their fecking azzes off sinch march freaking 9th which is far before a tier list even came out.

Would you rather have an ethical community with MK allowed or a dirty one with MK bant?

Are you really playing the ethical card? Ok. Your argument, that banning MK would be bad for MK mains [which includes you] is an Egoist's argument in terms of ethics.

From a Utilitarian perspective, and wanting the best for everyone, you go against the utilitarian theory of consequentialism because by wanting MK to not be banned you deny the people who "work their butts off" on other characters to have the opportunity to win money as MK mains enjoy as evidenced by his tournament results; the utilitarian theory of consequentialism [utilitarianism is a sub-category of consequentialism] is based on wanting what is best for everyone over what you want for yourself. [example, thieves generally are not utilitarians]

I'm not saying this as a pro or anti ban person, but that there is nothing that is ethical that another theory can't say that that something isn't ethical. Nothing is black or white in the world of ethics.

 

[-Ran]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

Out of this data there have been 139 tournaments. Of which, MK has won 40. This means MK has won 28.7% of tournaments that have been reported to this thread. Via the rating of each character, there is a total weight of 5,905. MK has a score of 1378.7 which accounts for 23.3% of the total composite scores. Mk's composite score is greater than the combination of Pit, Zss, Lucario, Olimar, DK, PT, Peach, Toon Link, Zelda, Fox, Wolf, Lucas, Yoshi, Ness, Ike, JigglyPuff, Link, Ganon, Mario, Bowser, Samus, and Captain Falcon.

[This post was in regards to the person questioning where the percentages were coming from.]

 

[Masmasher@]

Well thats larger then 20% i think kamakaze is proven wrong.
Plus I see that proportion to the other characters...sheesh

 

[Ax00x0]

- People who have never gone to tournaments and don't intend to. (my friend uses MK and always beats me, he's a big weiner and should be banned)
- People who have never gone to tournaments, but hope to and still want to influence the community. (i deserve a say in a community that i have no physical stake in, i am ENTITLED TO A POSITION)
- People who DO go to tournaments, but not often enough that they should be allowed to influence the community (I'm a part of this group, which is why I'm abstaining from voting).
- People who DO go to tournaments often and would lose to better players/characters anyway (people who don't place very well regardless of MK being there or not)
- People who main characters that Meta absolutely destroys, more interested in their own good than the good of the community. (with MK gone, my marth will rule the world)
- Duplicate/sock puppet accounts. (maybe?)

Except that using this mentality, it makes it seem like the pro-banners are always wrong.

Since this topic has effectively become pointless (the same argument that were on page 2 are just recurring over and over) I'll just say that when the Genesis results match that of WHOBOs and we are all playing Super Smash meta Knight Adventures, I want you all to know that I ****ing called it.

 

[Jupz]

I know this probably isnt a good idea but i have an idea (I dont want him to be banned, but if he must we can do something like this)

on the first match of the set if one person is going to choose MK then they must choose him first, then the other person chooses. if no-one says they are going to choose him then they cant choose him.

 

[tekkie]

When you post you show that you have an IQ of -2

Glad to know I don't need to respond to you any more. Your stupidity is inspirational, yet disgusting.

Don't dodge our responses and resort to ad hominem.

Believe it or not some top MK mains actually sold their soul to MK the very day he was announced.

I understand that you want to sound smart, but you missed the point that you didn't even post something worth responding to. Pay attention.

 

[Dekar173]

Glad to know I don't need to respond to you any more. Your stupidity is inspirational, yet disgusting.





I understand that you want to sound smart, but you missed the point that you didn't even post something worth responding to. Pay attention.

stfu n00b you don't know anything you n00b!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[-Ran]

on the first match of the set if one person is going to choose MK then they must choose him first, then the other person chooses. if no-one says they are going to choose him then they cant choose him.

And what would be the point of that? MK cannot be counter picked. There is currently no character capable of giving someone an edge, unless their main character has a larger disadvantage against MK.

 

[Dekar173]

And what would be the point of that? MK cannot be counter picked. There is currently no character capable of giving someone an edge, unless their main character has a larger disadvantage against MK.

It was an idea I proposed a while back BECAUSE of the fact that MK has no counter-picks. This way, at least the person choosing characters could choose someone that didn't have to fight an extremely uphill battle.

It makes the playing field semi-even when someone is allowed to choose the character they feel best prepared against an MK with ;D

 

[-Ran]

So by saying you're going to play MK, you get to kick someone off of their main. The metagame becomes about what character they think will beat your MK, instead of what character they feel they are best with to start a tournament match off with. This solution solves nothing.