Ulevo
Smash Master
Times that by three. You still have two more stocks.You'll only lose a minute and 40 seconds at most out of 8 minutes. Its not easily abusable.
That's more than half the time limit.
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Times that by three. You still have two more stocks.You'll only lose a minute and 40 seconds at most out of 8 minutes. Its not easily abusable.
Wrong because it is a FACT.Wrong, because I said so.
Bolded part is self defeating. Walk offs were not banned solely because of DDD's infinite.
Is there really any difference between a CG walk-off and an infinite? In both cases, grab = stock. In the first case, it affects 2/3rds of the cast, in the other it affects 1/7th. Why is it right to prevent the former case from happening but not the latter? LOGIC PLS.
Who are YOU to decide which part of the cast should be affected by the technique? What if I decide that those 13 characters that aren't affected by D3's CG are as many viable characters as is really needed? Less subjective BS please.
Okay XienZo. Next time you go to a tournament, make sure no one is moderating your match against a MK. Then let that MK stall with his infinite dimensional cape for a minute and 40 seconds and tell me if you're cool with it.You'll only lose a minute and 40 seconds at most out of 8 minutes. Its not easily abusable.
THIS^Times that by three. You still have two more stocks.
That's more than half the time limit.![]()
If I throw an invincible pikmin at you and then hide in a chamber you can't enter for the rest of the match, its not stalling?Stalling is halting the battle. But since the infinite is dealing damage, it isn't halted.
Well, thats assuming the MK will no longer stall afterwards with planking and going under stages, both of which DDD can't really do safely. Which in that case, I'd be fine. 6 minutes and 20 seconds of fighting after selecting just the perfect type of pikmin.Okay XienZo. Next time you go to a tournament, let a MK stall with his infinite dimensional cape for a minute and 40 seconds and tell me if you're cool with it.
lol you got me.Sometimes I wonder if people like you post for the sake of posting.
u cee wat i did thar???![]()
Having complete control isn't stalling, stalling is preventing a game from developing. Before he has reached enough damage to actually kill the character he is merely developing the death combo to it's natural progression, the death of his opponent.Why are you still arguing? You've made no productive point in this discussion at all?
Just because Dedede is DThrowing a character and dealing damage consistently does not mean he isn't stalling. There is no conflict at all. Dedede has complete control over that said character, and he ends it whenever he feels like it. That is stalling. It takes the conflict out of the battle. It makes the game unplayable. If two players can't compete together, there is no game to play. It is just Dedede, using the infinite.
Please stop posting.
No no no,Sometimes I wonder if you guys just argue for the sake of arguing.
It doesn't.Prove that DDD's infinite braks the game.
Most battles go beyond the 4 minute mark.Okay XienZo. Next time you go to a tournament, let a MK stall with his infinite dimensional cape for a minute and 40 seconds and tell me if you're cool with it.
THIS^
Contradiction between the first sentence and final part.It doesn't.
It just creates 90/10 matches and negates several characters that have absolutely no real reason to be negated because they are actually decent.
It's extremely lame, easy to do, boring to watch, and nearly impossible to avoid.
It's banned because it destroys fun and competitiveness.
YAY! MTG FTW!In MTG you had Ravager which forced to either paly ravager or Tooth and nail or lose.
Does this result in a kill, or does the match end from the timer?If I throw an invincible pikmin at you and then hide in a chamber you can't enter for the rest of the match, its not stalling?
No. Just no. Just because the infinite deals damage does not mean it isn't stalling. By that logic, you could use King Dedede's infinite to 999%. As long as it continues to that percent, it's not stalling. That's ridiculous reasoning.Stalling is halting the battle. But since the infinite is dealing damage, it isn't halted.
Looking at it from a different angle: Would you call Diddy's naner lock stalling? It fills the same conditions you just described.
And another angle: What rate of damage has to happen for it to not be stalling? If it were 0-300% in 30 seconds rather than a minute, would it be stalling? How about 5 seconds?
good point, a tech doesn't need to break the game to be banned. MK doesn't eitherIt doesn't.
It just creates 90/10 matches and negates several characters that have absolutely no real reason to be negated because they are actually decent.
It's extremely lame, easy to do, boring to watch, and nearly impossible to avoid.
It's banned because it destroys fun and competitiveness.
1 minute for 300 damage, 5o seconds for 50% to 300%, 2 stocks equal 100 seconds, because after you get grabbed the third time, the DDD isn't going to grab you to stall...Times that by three. You still have two more stocks.
That's more than half the time limit.![]()
So if the pikmin uses falcon punch on you every 5 minutes, its OK?Does this result in a kill, or does the match end from the timer?
If it's the first, then no, it's not stalling. If it's the latter, then yes it is. Hence why D3's infinites aren't stalling, but the IDC is.
...did a "NOT!" joke just make it into this thread?It's nice to see you actually know the facts of what you're arguing. Not. :
pure awsome. Broken humormeter FTW!...did a "NOT!" joke just make it into this thread?
Awesome.
Wait what? them being overpowered makes it irrelevant? how?The MvC2 characters were overpowered as a whole, and are completely irrelevant to the argument. In order to make the other characters viable, the top four characters would have had to be banned completely.
Which unfairly prevents DDD from using his capabilities to the full extent.This is not the case here. To make the unlucky 5 viable again, we just need to ban an easily abusable tactic that borders on stalling.
The same for DDD vs mario,Luig,Samus, Bowser, DK.The MvC2 characters are more like Fox v Pika. They're hopelessly outclassed, but they can at least still fight back.
We would never do anything like that. Prove me wrong.Sometimes I wonder if you guys just argue for the sake of arguing.
Having complete control for an excessive amount of time in which you are completely safe from harm is considered stalling.Having complete control isn't stalling, stalling is preventing a game from developing. Before he has reached enough damage to actually kill the character he is merely developing the death combo to it's natural progression, the death of his opponent.
When DDD grabs an opponent, if it's an infinitable character, that's a stock loss. Just as surely as if a Falco grabs a character in the proper position to do his dthrow to dair. Or any other death combo you could think of.
Sure, the possibility exists to use it for the purpose of stalling, but that's why we have to figure out what percentage DDD needs to be assured a kill and establish that after that point, it's stalling. .
If you think it shouldnt be banned. You have no reason other than you being dumb and care more about ******** irrational subjective thinking such as It only effects 5 characters yet we ban stages because of moves that only effect a certain amount of characters. However if everyone was effected by it except 2 characters it should definitley be banned even though youre being a hypocritcal ****** because its the same **** youve been arguing in the fact that you "can" counterpick.
seriously grow some balls and just think about the gay **** ****.
Anyway im tired of wasting my time so "Im done here".
CANT WAIT TO 3 STOCK BUM BECAUSE I AM SO AMAZING IF I PLAY HIM WOOOOOOTOOTTOTTTT I AM SO ****ING GOOD OMGOMOGMEOGMOAMFOSMD>
IMA 3 STOCK YOUR *** BOSS AND XYRO BE PREPARED *****ES I AM SO ****ING GOODDDDDDDDDDD
DAMMADSADSDADSDASDADDSAD
/SARCASM.
Just make him do the running CG and not the standing one. Simple. Simple as pie. Simple as ****ing blueberry pie.Which unfairly prevents DDD from using his capabilities to the full extent.
let alone how can yo dictate how long before its an infinite?
5? 6? 7?
What damage percent?
how long?
Does it break the game and cause overcentralizing?
it destroys competitiveness because it lacks any decent level of skill. Destroying competition between two characters =/= breaking the game.Contradiction between the first sentence and final part.
If it doesn't destroy the game how does it destro competitiveness?
Fun is subjective so don't bring it up.
Again there is fox vs Pikachu matchup. Should we ban the tactics that give Pikachu such a massive advantage?
What about in SF2 where E honda goes 9-1 with fireball users? ban the fireball usage when he faces those characters?
Edit: Which reminds me, do you know anyone who can make me a Shadowlink sig to replace the sig I have now?
I know of no other reasons as to why the map couldn't have been a simple counterpick other than the fact that it's a walk-off on both ends. Do you? And if so, please do name them.Wrong because it is a FACT.
Bolded part is self defeating. Walk offs were not banned solely because of DDD's infinite.
We have seen from experience what is ban worthy and what is not.
I'M NOT BEING SUBJECTIVE BY SAYING THAT IT SHOULD BE BANNED. I AM SAYING IT SHOULD BE BANNED BECAUSE WE'VE LIMITED ASPECTS OF THE GAME FOR THE SAME REASONS, AND IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THAT IDEAL, THAN WE ARE BEING INCOHERENT IN OUR CHOICES AND REGULATIONS. 1 GRAB = 1 STOCK? BAN. 1 GRAB = 1 STOCK? BAN! SEE? SAME THING! THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION ABOUT WHICHEVER ACTION WE SHOULD GO FOR DEPENDING ON THE RATIO OF CHARACTERS THAT WERE AFFECTED THEN, SO WHY NOW? HOW IS YOUR ARGUMENT VALID?Does DDD's infinities break the game or cause overcentralizing where its "do the infinite or lose?". No.
I also find it funny you are trying to call people on being subjective but you yourself are being subjective in saying that the infinite is worthy of bing banned just because it affects those 5 characters. Are you yourself not enacting standards on what would be ban worthy?
Sliq said:Wall infinited do not work on everyone. Characters that are too light to be CG will not be wall infinited. FURTHERMORE, you need a wall to be infinited against, whereas D3 can infinite the others WHENEVER HE FEELS LIKE IT. That means you have to be in between D3 and a wall, whereas with DK and Bowser, simply EXISTING ON SCREEN gives him all the oppurtunities he requires.
The flatland throw infinite is considerably more broken then the wall infinites, but stages with walls are banned.
Why not force everyone that plays a character capable of being CG to switch characters on walled stages? I mean, you're forcing DK and Bowser players to switch on ANY stage. You can't have double standards like this and call yourself the elite. It makes the community look like a bunch of *******.
Either walled stages aren't banned and the infinite is allowed, or walled stages are banned and the infinite is banned.
Then what about the combos in melee?Having complete control for an excessive amount of time in which you are completely safe from harm is considered stalling.
you can't twist it either.You can't create your own definition.
I am sorry but why would DDD go up to 300% with the infinite when he can kill the opponent off before that?And for the record, it takes around 1:15 to do an infinite from 0 - 300%. That is without pummels, and that wasn't even tested with the actual infinite, which is slower. This can happen three times a match for a total of over four minutes. Even if you were to define a proper percentage range, there is no way you couldn't consider it stalling, since it would have to be around 300% anyway.
Yeah but theyre has to be a line to how much is too much. How come you can decide when too many characters is too much.We ban stages for multiple reasons, not just single things. True, D3's chain grab plays a big part... but there are other factors. Besides, D3's chain grab works on a majority of the cast. This works on only a select few.
If your perfectly ok with letting this work on 5 character you should allow the IDC to work on 5 characters. This could get MK bannedWe ban stages for multiple reasons, not just single things. True, D3's chain grab plays a big part... but there are other factors. Besides, D3's chain grab works on a majority of the cast. This works on only a select few.
What if I alternate between walking grabs, standing grabs, and dashgrabs?Just make him do the running CG and not the standing one. Simple. Simple as pie. Simple as ****ing blueberry pie.
then you aren't doing the running CG and breaking the rules duh!What if I alternate between walking grabs, standing grabs, and dashgrabs?
There is no walking grab wtf.What if I alternate between walking grabs, standing grabs, and dashgrabs?
What if I alternate between walking grabs, standing grabs, and dashgrabs?
Sounds like MK...It doesn't.
It just creates 90/10 matches and negates several characters that have absolutely no real reason to be negated because they are actually decent.
It's extremely lame, easy to do, boring to watch, and nearly impossible to avoid.
It's banned because it destroys fun and competitiveness.
I'm sorry, but that's a horrible defination. It applies for any combo whatsoever, because any true combo means that you lose control for a set period of time. In smash less so, but most fighting games don't have DI.Stalling is when the conflict ceases, and the game becomes unplayable. That is the definition brought to you by the SBR. That is what occurs when King Dedede uses the infinite.
Again, you are not trying to stall, you are inflicting a stock loss. There is development in the match.Having complete control for an excessive amount of time in which you are completely safe from harm is considered stalling.
You can't create your own definition.
And for the record, it takes around 1:15 to do an infinite from 0 - 300%. That is without pummels, and that wasn't even tested with the actual infinite, which is slower. This can happen three times a match for a total of over four minutes. Even if you were to define a proper percentage range, there is no way you couldn't consider it stalling, since it would have to be around 300% anyway.
Just being a walk off wasn't the reason. it is because what you can do with it. DDD had his CG but there were many characters who were capable of simply B throwing you and killing you.I know of no other reasons as to why the map couldn't have been a simple counterpick other than the fact that it's a walk-off on both ends. Do you? And if so, please do name them.
I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE BEING SUBJECTIVE FOR WANTING IT BANNED. I AM ACLLING YOU SUBJECTIVE ON THE FACT THAT YOU BELIEVE AN INFINITE ON 5 CHARACTERS IS WORTHY ENOUGH FOR A BAN. THE REASON WHY THE RATIO MATTERS IS (AS STATED BEFORE) IT DICTATES IF THE TACTIC IS DAMAGING ENOUGH THAT IT HINDERS THE GAMEPLAY AS A WHOLE. NO ONE CARES IF 5 CHARACTER GET HARD COUNTERED. PEOPLE CARE IF A MASSIVE MAJORITY OF CHARACTERS ARE AFFECTEDI'M NOT BEING SUBJECTIVE BY SAYING THAT IT SHOULD BE BANNED. I AM SAYING IT SHOULD BE BANNED BECAUSE WE'VE LIMITED ASPECTS OF THE GAME FOR THE SAME REASONS, AND IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THAT IDEAL, THAN WE ARE BEING INCOHERENT IN OUR CHOICES AND REGULATIONS. 1 GRAB = 1 STOCK? BAN. 1 GRAB = 1 STOCK? BAN! SEE? SAME THING! THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION ABOUT WHICHEVER ACTION WE SHOULD GO FOR DEPENDING ON THE RATIO OF CHARACTERS THAT WERE AFFECTED THEN, SO WHY NOW? HOW IS YOUR ARGUMENT VALID?
Same for you.In caps so you don't miss it ;].
In case you did not understand the first time. We banned the stages because it stopped the infinites. Those infinitis were user by a massive amount of the cast. this cause the game to over centralize around the fact of getting the opponent to the wall and then performing an infinite on them. Not because of the infinite itself, not because characters became unviable, but because it caused overcentralizing and damaged competitive gameplay as a whole.Andd quoting sliq, AGAIN
You are SO right. We should not prevent a character from using the full extent of their abilities. Therefore, you must want Meta Knight's infinite dimensional cape unbanned. That's an ability of his. It's not fair that he can't make use of it.Which unfairly prevents DDD from using his capabilities to the full extent.
let alone how can yo dictate how long before its an infinite?
5? 6? 7?
What damage percent?
how long?
Does it break the game and cause overcentralizing?
Thats only on bowser and were just talking about infinites. Not really long chaingrabs.The chaingrab where D3 walks slightly forward to regrab his victim is I'm talking about.
And technically that's not an infinite; it's just a really long chaingrab.
Er, are you arguing that it's stalling or not? It seems like you're just having fun, here.1 minute for 300 damage, 5o seconds for 50% to 300%, 2 stocks equal 100 seconds, because after you get grabbed the third time, the DDD isn't going to grab you to stall...
So if the pikmin uses falcon punch on you every 5 minutes, its OK?