Meta Shields in Smash4 / 1.1.1>

[Trifroze]

Because the more damage a move does, the more shieldlag will occur.

That's with normal attacks, but shield hit lag is supposed to match hit lag of the attacker now which means projectiles should have none whether they do 5% or 25% unless there is something else to it.

 

[Nobie]

That's with normal attacks, but shield hit lag is supposed to match hit lag of the attacker now which means projectiles should have none whether they do 5% or 25% unless there is something else to it.

Hitlag among projectiles is variable and just depends on how it's coded. Some moves will be 1.0x hitlag modifier while others might be 0.25x for example.

 

[Doval]

That's with normal attacks, but shield hit lag is supposed to match hit lag of the attacker now which means projectiles should have none whether they do 5% or 25% unless there is something else to it.

The attacker is the projectile itself, not the player that created it; it's usually destroyed on impact.

 

[Karsticles]

Hitlag among projectiles is variable and just depends on how it's coded. Some moves will be 1.0x hitlag modifier while others might be 0.25x for example.

Where can i find the hitlag on Shadow Ball?

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Looking at the formula, what does floor stand for?

 

[A_Kae]

Looking at the formula, what does floor stand for?

Floor means the number is rounded down to the nearest integer. 1.3 becomes 1, 4.9 becomes 4, and so on.

 

[Darklink401]

That's with normal attacks, but shield hit lag is supposed to match hit lag of the attacker now which means projectiles should have none whether they do 5% or 25% unless there is something else to it.

If that were just it, Villager's falling tree wouldn't have shieldstun, since it's a projectile, but in fact it has a lot of shiedstun xD

 

[Manaphy21]

Here is an excellent table of frame advantage on shield hit vs. aerials assembled by @Xygonn who really deserves props for his work:
http://smashboards.com/threads/shield-grab-vs-aerials.407971/
Anything below 4 means you basically can't shield grab since spot dodge will win. Essentially the entire cast now has to grapple (pun intended) with not being able to shield grab a whole host of moves. It's as though everyone inherited Samus' disadvantage to some degree. Looking at previous versions you can see how titanic a change this is.

I have to admit that I'm not understanding the math being performed in this thread, but I'm still willing to learn how this new shield stun mechanic changes the way I play. Reading your particular comment scared me quite a bit because I naturally rely on shield and grab.

An hour ago, I was playing with a Lucina, and I noticed that some of my baiting options into shield grab were not working as smoothly as they used to. Like you mentioned, spotdodge was commonly the issue, and so were falling aerials onto my shield. It got frustrating to the point that I feel like my bad dash habit with Rosalina has returned.

There were moments in which I was still able to 2-stock or comeback on this Lucina--he was very well-versed, though, which I highly appreciate the practice--but other times, I feel my reliance on shield was what in the end caused me to fall back on old habits or just develop an obvious predictable dependency.

I can't really explain what I experienced in numbers, but I can honestly say that I've felt the delay on shield after I block an attack (no PSing), and I think because of this, I am more inclined to be afraid of making mistakes because now I know that characters like Lucina have safer options on shield now than before, which pre-patch I could have easily punished. And by God.. Little Mac has become TONS scarier now..

 

[Manaphy21]

Here is an excellent table of frame advantage on shield hit vs. aerials assembled by @Xygonn who really deserves props for his work:
http://smashboards.com/threads/shield-grab-vs-aerials.407971/
Anything below 4 means you basically can't shield grab since spot dodge will win. Essentially the entire cast now has to grapple (pun intended) with not being able to shield grab a whole host of moves. It's as though everyone inherited Samus' disadvantage to some degree. Looking at previous versions you can see how titanic a change this is.

P.S. I decided to take a gander at the table you shared, and seeing the change in shield grab against Lucina knocked me in the head somewhat. I also gasped a little when I saw that some other moves I usually could have punished with shield grabbed could no longer be done so otherwise.

This new but really helpful information gives me the idea that I may have to relearn several matchups because of my reliance on shield.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Just tested Bowser's Bair on block using capture equipment. It deals 19 damage, so if we apply the formula, 12 frames of shieldstun are supposed to be delivered. However, I'm getting 13 shieldstun instead. If we reduce the number 1.75 to 1.72, we get 13 frames out of the altered formula. I know I read this number somewhere, surely it's correct and needs to be fixed in the OP?

 

[Vipermoon]

Yeah didn't I first see a Japanese source with a 1.72? Or maybe that source said 75. Idk.

 

[jet56]

Just tested Bowser's Bair on block using capture equipment. It deals 19 damage, so if we apply the formula, 12 frames of shieldstun are supposed to be delivered. However, I'm getting 13 shieldstun instead. If we reduce the number 1.75 to 1.72, we get 13 frames out of the altered formula. I know I read this number somewhere, surely it's correct and needs to be fixed in the OP?

i take it you are rounding down after you get the number from the formula, even if its closer to 13 rather than 12? if so, then:
(19/1.75)+2=12.85 which rounds down to 12.
(19/1.72)+2=13.04 which rounds down to 13.

can we have someone else confirm which formula is accurate? ill also go into the lab, and start testing moves to see whether this is the case or not. It COULD also be that shieldstun frames round up instead of down, but this is unlikely.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

i take it you are rounding down after you get the number from the formula, even if its closer to 13 rather than 12? if so, then:
(19/1.75)+2=12.85 which rounds down to 12.
(19/1.72)+2=13.04 which rounds down to 13.

can we have someone else confirm which formula is accurate? ill also go into the lab, and start testing moves to see whether this is the case or not. It COULD also be that shieldstun frames round up instead of down, but this is unlikely.

I doubt they created cases for the formula to round up when literally every other formula we've concocted for Smash Bros mechanics uses "Floor" for the outcome. I found another case example. Dr. Mario's non angled Fsmash deals 15.68 damage on the far (weak) hit. Strike a shield with that, and the game gives you 11 frames of shieldstun, while the accepted formula comes out to 10.96 - 10 shieldstun.

But Bowser's 19% Bair is still the best example. Since the formula simply cannot include a number of 1.73 or higher to give 13 frames of shieldstun. It has to be 1.72 at maximum.

 

[Lavani]

Yeah didn't I first see a Japanese source with a 1.72? Or maybe that source said 75. Idk.

This listed 1.72, then in a later tweet he decided it must actually be 1.75 (which as we're apparently discovering now isn't actually the case), and went with that for sixriver's shieldstun calculator. Dunno what spurred that change, maybe he just assumed 1.72 would be a weird number and 1.75 must be correct?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Yeah, well when the previous game has a number as uneven as 2.56, I don't think an even number like 1.75 sounds any more probable than 1.72. In fact, I find it more suspicious. Come to think of it, 3.5 might also require this sort of peer review for projectiles. I'm currently working on shieldstun numbers for characters, so I'll let you know if something else is off, but I don't suspect the real number is anything other than 1.72 for normal attacks.

 

[Horseketchup]

I think the formula also has to be 1.72. Here's the able of shieldstun values from the japanese guy who did initial testing:

http://imgur.com/pNzN0tx

For 19%, it's listed as 13 instead of 14, and for 26% it's listed as 16 instead of 17. I think he originally listed it as 1.72, but somewhere along the line it got altered for some reason.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Some of the japanese escapes me, but the clearest part of the second tweet is easily phrased as "[the formula] isn't 1.72, 1.75 is probably more correct". That 'probably' phrasing is just how it sounds. "I can't really say, but it's my inference that..."

What bothers me is how this is the second tweet. He had to have plugged in the 1.75 number to see if his table of values still holds up, and two of them cause a discrepancy. 19% and 26%. But at the end of the day, the difference between 1.75 and 1.72 is not game breaking. Most characters that we care about don't deal that much damage in a single hit, and Bowser's Bair isn't suddenly safe on shield because it deals one more frame of shieldstun than we thought.

 

[Shouxiao]

Attacks do more damage to shields but it does not make them safe. Basically they key is spacing attacks. Before a lot of attacks could simply be shield grabbed. Now characters have the chance of putting more pressure on characters if they space their attacks correctly.

 

[Zibo]

Attacks do more damage to shields but it does not make them safe. Basically they key is spacing attacks. Before a lot of attacks should simply be shield grabbed. Now characters have the chance of putting more pressure on characters if they space their attacks correctly.

I totally agree: what's most important is to space properly in order to not be punished too easily. I'm glad that now shields are weaker and we don't have to rely on grabs as much as before. I'm liking this patch.

 

[Masonomace]

It's been clarified already, but shields are between 41 & 42 HP. Figuring out the exact amount of HP isn't necessary for now anyway. Though I do have something specifically for Shulk & his Shield arts:

I have updates on the shield health points for Monado Shield, Decisive Shield, & Hyper Shield.

For testing, I used two of the same character using the same move & held shield in the respective Shield art. Here are my results:

Monado Shield's bubble shield can withstand two Ganondorf Warlock Punches, but cannot withstand two Bowser fully charged Fsmashes. Warlock Punch deals 30% & two make it 60%, while Bowser's fully charged Fsmash sweetspotted deals ~32% making two deal ~64%. The decimal placings for ~64% could make it closer to 65%, but I won't go that far. Another example is using two Lucarios at 136 - 138% Aura using fully charged forward smashes deal a total amount of ~62% ALMOST breaks Monado Shield's bubble shield. At 139% Aura though, two Lucario fully charged forward smashes deal ~63%, which breaks Monado Shield's shield.

TL;DR I think Monado Shield's shield health is 63 HP.
═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Decisive Shield's bubble shield can withstand two Ganondorf fully charged Fsmashes dealing ~67%. I couldn't really find a move that deals a flat amount of 35% to deal 70% so. Testing two Lucarios' fully charged forward smashes in training mode at 162% Aura simultaneously hitting deal ~68% (very close to 69%) ALMOST breaks Decisive Shield's bubble shield. Once the two Lucarios were at 163% Aura, their fully charged forward smashes deal a total of ~69%, which breaks Decisive Shield's shield.

TL;DR I think Decisive Shield's shield health is 69 HP.
═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Hyper Shield's bubble shield can withstand two Ganondorf B-Reversed Grounded Warlock Punches, but cannot withstand two Gannondorf Aerial Warlock Punches. B-Reversed Grounded Warlock Punch deals 37% making two deal 74%, while two Aerial Warlock Punches performed on a custom stage deal 76%. Two Lucarios at 182 - 185% Aura fully charging forward smash deals ~74%, ALMOST breaks Hyper Shield's bubble shield. Then you put the Lucarios at 186% which deals ~75% almost almost breaks Hyper Shield's shield, but at 187% Aura dealing ~75% the forward smashes will break the shield.

TL;DR I think Hyper Shield's bubble shield health is 75 HP.

The Shield arts don't change the frame data of Shulk's bubble shield afaik. This includes no changes to shield lock, perfect shielding, shield stun, or shield hit lag. And Shield arts don't decrease the damage of a move on block just in case anyone wondered about it (that would of been cool though).

 

[Vipermoon]

Shaya Can you please edit to OP to show the 1.72 and 3.44 formula?

 

[Masonomace]

So uhhh, I was counting frames & got this result.

From putting up a fresh full bubble shield, your shield depleting on it's own will break on the 384th frame.The shield is still up on frame 383, so a manual shield break has to be on frame 384. The question is, how would one know the exact amount of HP a shield depletes per frame / per second based on this finding? And would a bubble shield start depleting after the perfect shield window (1-3), or after frame 6 (when the ring inside the bubble shield meets the outer region of the shield)? Or maybe on a different frame?

 

[Vipermoon]

I saw there was a reply to shields thread so I thought, "oh crap, not another shield change"

 

[Knife8193]

Is there data compiled on each character's aerial/move's safety on shield?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Is there data compiled on each character's aerial/move's safety on shield?

Yes. Feel free to ask questions about how shields work and why moves are as safe or unsafe as they are. This is a thread about shields after all.

 

[Knife8193]

Yes. Feel free to ask questions about how shields work and why moves are as safe or unsafe as they are. This is a thread about shields after all.

Ok, sure I do have a question or rather want to confirm my assumption.

Sheik's fair according to that document is +1 against shield drop options and -6 against OoS options. She can buffer shield on frame 1. Does this mean that there are no shield drop options against fair and the only OoS options that can hit her before she puts up shield are frame 6 grabs or attacks that are faster than frame 6?

Do the values in the document also take into account moves that autocancel?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Do the values in the document also take into account moves that autocancel?

Nope, never. Because not every aerial auto cancels, we needed a consistent point of reference in which advantage for aerials could actually be compared to other aerials, so we look at aerial landing lag. Our scenario is hitting the target's shield just one frame before landing. This way, the aerial's landing lag and the defenders shieldstun values begin on the same frame. This also follows the same logic that we calculate advantage for normals. Lag vs. Shield stun. So, looking at Sheik's Fair, if she perfectly times the attack to hit just one frame before landing, she gets the absolute best case scenario of -6 advantage. She is stuck in the attack's lag for six frames after the defender can do something in shield. So it's actually frame 7 or lower shield grabs that are guaranteed, because, as you say, shields are her only one frame action, and grabs will beat shield. But grabs can also potentially be stuffed by her two frame jab, so frame 8 is too late. And other OoS attacks like a Mario or Little Mac Up B must be executed in a way that comes out in 6 frames in order to avoid the possibility of a block.

 

[Shaya]

I have aerial frame data safety including auto cancels / full actions (sometimes auto cancels exist after move end frames, I think the going term for it is Action Cancelling [oh no it's AC again :<] or manual cancel).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GcccIxzB2tBhTxDDlJPNHd72MVQ95wG5RfnHroDgMc8

 

[Vipermoon]

Nope, never. Because not every aerial auto cancels, we needed a consistent point of reference in which advantage for aerials could actually be compared to other aerials, so we look at aerial landing lag. Our scenario is hitting the target's shield just one frame before landing. This way, the aerial's landing lag and the defenders shieldstun values begin on the same frame. This also follows the same logic that we calculate advantage for normals. Lag vs. Shield stun. So, looking at Sheik's Fair, if she perfectly times the attack to hit just one frame before landing, she gets the absolute best case scenario of -6 advantage. She is stuck in the attack's lag for six frames after the defender can do something in shield. So it's actually frame 7 or lower shield grabs that are guaranteed, because, as you say, shields are her only one frame action, and grabs will beat shield. But grabs can also potentially be stuffed by her two frame jab, so frame 8 is too late. And other OoS attacks like a Mario or Little Mac Up B must be executed in a way that comes out in 6 frames in order to avoid the possibility of a block.

Good thing Sheik spaces Fair well beyond shield grab range.

 

[Shaya]

【ジャストシールド時のガード硬直】
暫定の計算式
・直接攻撃＝INT{攻撃力/2.62+2}
・飛び道具＝INT{攻撃力/5.2+2}
両者とも下一桁に誤差アリ。
ヒットストップは通常通り攻撃側・ガード側に等しくかかる。 pic.twitter.com/qbSQL8mOiV

— DRAFIX/ドラフィ (@drafix570) March 9, 2016

@Meshima informed me on Twitter that this is referring to the shield stun formula for power shielding moves.
So it's not a 25% reduction like previously assumed but roughly the old shield stun formula [with the unavoidable +2 on top]

 

[LancerStaff]

So is the lavender column regular shielding and the aqua perfect shielding, or is this some comparison between patches?

 

[Lavani]

They're physical/projectile.

 

[Masonomace]

Okay. I got some more precise numbers. Could of used any victim so I used Shulk. Chose Lucario as the CPU & had two of them for simultaneous attack purposes in hopes to find the exact Shield Health value.

What I do know now is that the approximate amount is between 41.556666666676% and 41.621666666658% HP. But to make it easier, let's just say it's between 41.56 - 41.62 HP. Why can't we just have 41.0, 41.5, or 42.0 HP?

I used a lot of this testing around Lucario specifically because his Aura mechanic is very helpful finding decimal values with a fairly strong & convincing move-set. Here's stuff in a spoiler to show my findings to why I came to the conclusion that Shield Health is something like 41.6 HP:

Spoiler: Shield Health labbing

(Click this Lucario icon to jump to KuroganeHammer site for his frame data showing the startup & damages.)
(Click this Lucario icon to jump to MTI's Dropbox source showing Aura damages in increments to current percentages.)
(Click this Lucario icon to open an image showing the Aura formula in Smash 4. This helps you find the damage dealt.)

Shaya (Click Shaya to jump to the Original Post showing the frame data for shield.)


Fsmash
Two Lucarios at 120%
Frame 22 Fsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.33333333%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 16 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 121%
Frame 22 Fsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.52%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 15 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 122%
Frame 22 Fsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.70666667% & breaks Shulk's shield.


Fsmash (Late)
Two Lucarios at 172%
Frame 24 Fsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.47%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 16 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 173%
Frame 24 Fsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.621666666658% & breaks Shulk's shield.


Dsmash
Two Lucarios at 152%
Frame 19 Dsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.393333333324%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 16 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 153%
Frame 19 Dsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.556666666676%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 15 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 154%
Frame 19 Dsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.72% & breaks Shulk's shield.


Bair
Two Lucarios at 135%
Frame 16 Bairs hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.37500000001%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 15 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 136%
Frame 16 Bairs hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.55%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 15 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 137%
Frame 16 Bairs hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.72499999999% & breaks Shulk's shield.

 

[Vipermoon]

Okay. I got some more precise numbers. Could of used any victim so I used Shulk. Chose Lucario as the CPU & had two of them for simultaneous attack purposes in hopes to find the exact Shield Health value.

What I do know now is that the approximate amount is between 41.556666666676% and 41.621666666658% HP. But to make it easier, let's just say it's between 41.56 - 41.62 HP. Why can't we just have 41.0, 41.5, or 42.0 HP?

I used a lot of this testing around Lucario specifically because his Aura mechanic is very helpful finding decimal values with a fairly strong & convincing move-set. Here's stuff in a spoiler to show my findings to why I came to the conclusion that Shield Health is something like 41.6 HP:

Spoiler: Shield Health labbing

(Click this Lucario icon to jump to KuroganeHammer site for his frame data showing the startup & damages.)
(Click this Lucario icon to jump to MTI's Dropbox source showing Aura damages in increments to current percentages.)
(Click this Lucario icon to open an image showing the Aura formula in Smash 4. This helps you find the damage dealt.)

Shaya (Click Shaya to jump to the Original Post showing the frame data for shield.)


Fsmash
Two Lucarios at 120%
Frame 22 Fsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.33333333%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 16 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 121%
Frame 22 Fsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.52%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 15 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 122%
Frame 22 Fsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.70666667% & breaks Shulk's shield.


Fsmash (Late)
Two Lucarios at 172%
Frame 24 Fsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.47%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 16 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 173%
Frame 24 Fsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.621666666658% & breaks Shulk's shield.


Dsmash
Two Lucarios at 152%
Frame 19 Dsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.393333333324%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 16 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 153%
Frame 19 Dsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.556666666676%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 15 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 154%
Frame 19 Dsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.72% & breaks Shulk's shield.


Bair
Two Lucarios at 135%
Frame 16 Bairs hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.37500000001%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 15 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 136%
Frame 16 Bairs hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.55%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 15 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

Two Lucarios at 137%
Frame 16 Bairs hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.72499999999% & breaks Shulk's shield.

It seems one doesn't lose shield HP during shield stun. Can you confirm/debunk?

I say this because AFAIK, shield stun doesn't stack (so you'd take ~14 stun frames instead of ~26) and it looks like these 16 frames are basically the shield stun + the few more frames required to break a shield.

 

[Masonomace]

It seems one doesn't lose shield HP during shield stun. Can you confirm/debunk?

I say this because AFAIK, shield stun doesn't stack (so you'd take ~14 stun frames instead of ~26) and it looks like these 16 frames is basically the shield stun + the few more frames required to break a shield.

I uhh, am not completely sure. I went back to this labbing way real quick:

Two Lucarios at 121%
Frame 22 Fsmashes hitting Shulk's shield on frame 4 deals 41.52%. Lucarios & Shulk suffer 12 freeze-frames, & then 15 frames later holding shield, Shulk's bubble shield breaks.

This quote is me holding shield the entire time. Also, because it only registers one Fsmash instead of two despite that the damage is doubled. Probably because the moves are simultaneous? Eh. So yeah, 121% Lucario's Fsmash deals 20.76%. 20.76 / 1.72 + 2 = 14 frames of shield-stun.

This time, I release the shield trigger right when the two Fsmashes hit shield on frame 4. Shield hitlag lasts from frame 22-33 (1-12). Frame 34-47 is the shield-stun window (1-14). Frame 48 marks the first frame of shield drop lag. However, if I was holding shield the entire time, the shield would break on frame 48. So. . . . .to try answering you. Maybe? I'm not too confident even with frame skipping & zooming my camera in to see the bubble shield whether I notice it depleting or not.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Shield health does not drop during shieldstun or shield hitlag. It remains static until the frame after shieldstun has concluded.

 

[Vipermoon]

I uhh, am not completely sure. I went back to this labbing way real quick:

This quote is me holding shield the entire time. Also, because it only registers one Fsmash instead of two despite that the damage is doubled. Probably because the moves are simultaneous? Eh. So yeah, 121% Lucario's Fsmash deals 20.76%. 20.76 / 1.72 + 2 = 14 frames of shield-stun.

This time, I release the shield trigger right when the two Fsmashes hit shield on frame 4. Shield hitlag lasts from frame 22-33 (1-12). Frame 34-47 is the shield-stun window (1-14). Frame 48 marks the first frame of shield drop lag. However, if I was holding shield the entire time, the shield would break on frame 48. So. . . . .to try answering you. Maybe? I'm not too confident even with frame skipping & zooming my camera in to see the bubble shield whether I notice it depleting or not.

I don't even think it matters that they are simultaneous, if the second Fsmash hits one frame after, you'd probably just get 1 frame more shield stun than if they hit on the same frame. The second hit would sort of override the first. But I don't know for sure nor do I know what would happen if a first hit's stun outlasts a second's stun.

Okay so it seems that HP doesn't drop during stun. Because if it did, 14 frames would be more than enough to break the shield but instead we see it break after those frames.

Shield health does not drop during shieldstun or shield hitlag. It remains static until the frame after shieldstun has concluded.

That seems like the only conclusion, but may I ask how you knew?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

That seems like the only conclusion, but may I ask how you knew?

Weeks and weeks of counting shieldstun frames makes some things quite clear. Any time you hit a shield with a fantastically powerful move, it's clear the shield health will not deplete further with time during shieldstun and shieldlag.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Masonomace you should consider experimenting with no perfect shield equipment and Lucario power equipment on Shield Shulk shield.

Ftr 200 power equipment multiplies your damage by 2.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Double post but we figured out shield HP eventually: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Shields

tl;dr HP is 50, damage to shield multiplied by 1.19