Sheik's Stage Discussion and Analysis (YOSHI'S ISLAND)

[Villi]

Hey all, I made a similar post in the Zelda forums. I thought it would be a good idea to have another one on the Sheik boards since the regulars don't seem to cross post much.

I was thinking this would be a weekly discussion. I'll keep both threads updated with information from either board, but specific boards takes on which form of Sheik/Zelda fare better on which stage would be helpful.

Explanation of terms:

Stage Qualities: Stage occurences such as the ship weapons on halberd, the ghost platform on Yoshi's Island, the water on Delphino, the reappearance of Luigi's Mansion will all be discussed here. Platform heights, blast zones, and occurences will be up for analysis.

Zoning/brick-walling: Positions on the stage you want to be in to maximize your potential to keep your opponent at a disadvantage. Methods you can use to limit your opponent's options and strategies for punishing attempts to escape your wall.

Traps: Attacks you can use to put your opponents in disadvatageous positions. Methods you use to place your foe in a position to be zoned.

Edge Guarding: Stage specific maneuvers for edge guarding your opponent. Ways to use the layout of the stage to make it difficult for your opponent to recover while aiding you in your edge guard, e.g., using platforms to help you gain height against high recoveries. Methods for limiting its options of landing on the stage from off-stage or from on the ledge.

Recovery: Using properties of the stage to aid you in your recovery after being sent off the stage.

Pressure: Ways you can use your positional advantages on the stage to effectively approach your opponent to cause damage to it or its shield.

Defense: Ways you can use the stage to defend yourself from enemy approaches or projectiles.

Miscellaneous: Random, stage specific information that hasn't been covered by the above categories. Free summaries of your stage experiences.​

Stage Rankings:

Sheik:

Battlefield​

Sheik(/Zelda):

Battlefield​

Current Discussion: YOSHI'S ISLAND

​

Ok folks, how does Sheik do on YI? Does the center platform and uneven terrain help or hinder our ninja friend? How useful is wall cling here, anyway?​

 

[Villi]

Reserved for space.

 

[Villi]

Reserved for space.

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik's ftilt, utilt, and usmash can hit people on the side platforms from below. Also, unlike Smashville, you can perform mysterious Vanishes that appear to go through the stage here, which can save you from a few edgehogs.

Slightly limited running space but enough to work with in most cases.

 

[East]

I've always felt that battlefield is a decent level for shiek. The two lower platforms, are just high enough for an utilt or up-smash [that sends enemies straight up]. The platforms also provide sufficient cover for enemies who are above you and try to attack. The blast zones [to my knowledge] are pretty basic, nothing too high, nothing too low. This is incredibly situational but a vanish glide off of one of the platforms has helped me kill an opponent who is falling back to the stage. The thing I don't like the most is the highest platform. Because sheiks uair isn't amazing, enemies who fall below are in an advantageous position.

P.S. I've noticed that for some reason a lot of people will not fall through a platform unless they are on the opposite side [this being left or right] compared to you, so a sliding upsmash works wonders even if they're falling through. Most people I've played never expect it.

P.S.S. Also I didn't realize until a few hours ago that the thing in the back is a sun-dial.

 

[Flamingo777]

Things I like about Battlefield.

1. Ftilt, Uptilt, and Upsmash go through the 2 side plats.
2. Characters that you can grab -> air release will land on the platforms and have lag enough so that you can normal Upsmash them without DACUSing.
3. No accidental wallclings (Although I do like Yoshi's Island for wallclings, because you have to be lower to do cling).
4. You have platforms to charge your needles on, and a place to hide from projectiles such as the IC's ice, thundershock, etc.

Battlefield is my pick if i'm not fighting Olimar or Marth!

 

[demodemo]

it is difficult for sheik to be aggressive on this stage IMO, at least for me because i (usually) approach with fullhopped bairs, and the platforms really get in the way :\

for the same reason i think a defensive sheik would fare better.

 

[choknater]

it is difficult for sheik to be aggressive on this stage IMO, at least for me because i (usually) approach with fullhopped bairs, and the platforms really get in the way :\

for the same reason i think a defensive sheik would fare better.

I think the platform height actually enhances her potential for aggressiveness. Tilts from underneath and short hop fairs hitting people from underneath can cause a lot of damage. I think approaches are situational on certain stages and Battlefield increases Sheik's number of options to approach.

 

[Tristan_win]

You know what I like about Battlefield that I can't do on other stages? Use the vanish aggressively

Sure, the vanish isn't that good for that but when it lands it feels so good. Also at times near the edge of a match against someone like ...Kirby I'll just start vanishing all over the stage, appearing in different hard to punish locations until either my opponent goes completely on the defensive or accidentally runs into one and gets himself killed.

Would I ever recommend doing this? Hell no, it's too risky but I do it once in a blue moon when I just can't land that finisher move to win the game.

 

[demodemo]

I think the platform height actually enhances her potential for aggressiveness. Tilts from underneath and short hop fairs hitting people from underneath can cause a lot of damage. I think approaches are situational on certain stages and Battlefield increases Sheik's number of options to approach.

my friends don't camp on the platforms

 

[choknater]

Vanish is very inaccurate and unreliable, but its saving grace is that a ground vanish teleporting away is not THAT punishable. Medium risk, high reward.

 

[Rawr_]

vanish gliding off the side platforms is the single sexiest KO tactic in brawl, just make sure you teleport down and away so you don't catch them with wind lol

 

[Villi]

Next stage is Yoshi's Island. The ghost platform screws me over more than it helps me a lot of the time. It seems to wait for just the right time so I embarrass myself trying to tether recover.

 

[-Mars-]

I love playing on Yoshi's against Marth players. The wall cling really helps out against their spacing game.

The platform sets up nicely for her platform pressure game. I also love using the platform to my advantage, Sheik can use platforms to aid her game instead of them hurting other characters' games. The ceilings are pretty average which keeps you from dying at insanely low percentages.

The Shy Guys get in the way, but it doesn't hamper Sheiks game as much as some others.

 

[East]

Shy Guys

These tend to help me more than hinder. There's only 2 or 3 shy guy's who get in the way of sheiks needles and they're most often only on the far left side of the field [seen one pop down in the middle on a rare occasion]. They have in some cases saved me when fighting projectile users. They're good as a shield if their near me, otherwise only really serve as a nice ornament.

Platform

I don't particularly care for the platform on this level. When it's completely flat it's impossible to hit with a tipper upsmash, u-tilt, or upsmash in general. When it tips to one side it's always nice to throw out the "surprise" DACUS of the match if an enemy is on the edge leaning down. Because fighting characters under sheik in the air is tabuu to me, I really don't like being on the platform either. The con's really outweigh the pro's in this situation.

Level Floor

This has never really been a determining factor or side factor in any of my matches, thus I really don't have any input here.

Wall Cling

As I can recall, I have only used a wall cling to my advantage once. No Input.

Side Platforms

I hate these things. They only serve to hinder sheik from gimping other characters. Because the sides of the level aren't insanely long, sheik doesn't really have a problem with getting back to the level, but when I try to gimp someone or hinder them from returning to the level, this rises up and I heave a sigh of distaste.

 

[demodemo]

Yeap, ghosts are mad annoying while your opponent is off stage, not because it helps them, but because the ghost is like a cement block between you and your opponent. if you try to go in between the ghost and the stage, you will probably not reach horizontally enough to hit your opponent. really gay.

i still like this stage because of the big center platform. since its big your opponent is likely to land on it, and when they do you can pressure really well through the platforms with SH bairs.

that's all for this stage, really. the shy guys never really affect me :\

 

[choknater]

i prefer flatter stages

the slopes are annoying lol

but yea sheik is okay here

 

[D1RE]

The uneven floor is a pain against Wolf. I also hate ghosts.

My 10 cent.

 

[Rawr_]

stupid ghost platforms ><;

 

[Blistering Speed]

This stage doesn't really take that much away from a Shiek, but it doesn't give anything either. Overall I'd say a slightly bad stage, but it is a neutral so...yeah.

Bad things:
-Ghost platforms mess up gimping and edgeguarding (dont overstate this, it's rare).
-Platform can mess up needle camping.

Neutral things:
-Plenty of room to breath (good or bad dependant on your opponent and your playstyle)
-Shy guys (errr, they can shield you...or they can shield your opponent from needles. Either way Im clutching at straws because it's a neutral stage and these guys are virtually insignificant).

Good things:
-Tipper DACUS on the platform when it's tipped at certain angles.
-Shiek has great pressure when the opponent is standing on a platform above her, which is quite common on this stage.
-Needle camp funzies, because of length of stage and general manouverability.

Wall cling is stupid and extremely situational.

 

[Zankoku]

Vanishing to the very corner of the stage will cause you to slide off before getting back your movement. This can be bad if people know this and just continue to edgehog.

 

[-Mars-]

I'm going to bump this just because there aren't many active threads around here.

But I agree, Yoshi's Island is a pretty bad Sheik stage. Bad for her recovery, bad for her spacing. Actually it's not horrible if you have to go there but the issues with your recovery keep it from being someplace you want to go.

 

[<π]

I ban this stage if my opponents don't just because of what ankoku mentioned. it isn't horrible but sheik does so well on all of the other stages that while not being horrible this is one of the worst... if that makes sense.

there is a lot of room so you can camp it well. and you aren't going to be affected as much by the unlevel stage as characters like... bowser or gdorf who need flat ground for their lagless aerials. avoid it if you can.

 

[Voyeur]

The little invert tends to aid me since I tend to perform that crawl-dash and can get a boost for a sliding Dsmash. Also my reverse crawl dashing that I still need to post a vid up of on here is capable of getting a slight sliding boost from slopes then normal I think, I'll have to test that on all slopes.

The whole stage really plays well with Sheik since you're still able to needle camp some what to a degree, wall cling for killing time and finding an approach. A tipper or normal usmash becomes pretty easy with the misguided "safety" of the middle platform. Your Utilts and Ftilts can just hit through it as well, or a nice Fair.

I don't think it's one stage you should ignore but infact learn to utilize on, since it's one of the better neutral stages.

 

[Charoo]

4 neutral. Battlefield, smashvilee, fd, and yoshi's. The first 3 r better than yoshi's. So you strike this out or your opponenet will.

not a bad stage, just the others r better.

 

[rinoH]

ehh this stage is okay great for wall clinging though

 

[Flamingo]

ehh this stage is okay great for wall clinging though

Yes it is. however, I don't like this stage for gimping because you can't stage spike effectively. I do that quite a bit in my gameplay, I don't know about you guys.

 

[Voyeur]

so we should probably hit up Villi to see if he's willing to sum this all up and move on to the next stage

 

[<π]

what huge advantages do you get from wall clinging? I never do it... ever.

 

[Voyeur]

you can stall for time during respawns or during edgeguards, instead of making ledge drop approaches you can use the wall jump from the wall cling to get a better situation of an Fair gimp or Nair hit, different dynamics of placement and spacing. Variety in general.

You can tech and then cling to it with out forcing yourself to hurridly try to Up-B or jump to the ledge only to be hogged or guarded.

 

[FrozenFire13]

Yes it is. however, I don't like this stage for gimping because you can't stage spike effectively. I do that quite a bit in my gameplay, I don't know about you guys.

It's true. Unless their at high percentages, it's difficult to use the stage to gimp.

So when/what is the next stage coming up? Luigi's Mansion? I love me some Luigi's Mansion. Shiek's best stage IMO. Other people say Norfair...eh.

EDIT: 3rd page starter many wootz.

 

[Voyeur]

Tristan is the one who posted this earlier in another thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0RPa8_XD6Y

mastering that to 100% usefulness gives Sheik a huge upper hand on Yoshi's Island.

 

[Jaigoda]

A note about Luigi's Mansion: There are several characters who can seriously abuse that level. Just because you do well on it doesn't mean that there aren't people who will **** you on it.

 

[FrozenFire13]

A note about Luigi's Mansion: There are several characters who can seriously abuse that level. Just because you do well on it doesn't mean that there aren't people who will **** you on it.

What are said characters? Just so we can have a list to know from. We're discussing MK on the Sheik's counterpick discussion thread, and some people say that Sheik wouldn't do have bad on it against MK. Alot of other's say otherwise. So who is good on Luigi's Mansion then? I've already stated in the other thread why I think Sheik has advantages there.

 

[-Mars-]

DK and Snake are extremely good on Luigi's. Lucario is like a freaking God on that stage as well.

 

[Jaigoda]

What Marsulas said. I'm really not much of an expert on different characters outside of my mains, but I know MK also does well there due to whorenado shenanigans, though your needles may negate that a bit. Also, I know ROB's laser can travel through the pillars there, though I'm not sure what other advantages he has there. Still, I'd just suggest being wary of using it if you don't know the other character's stage picks well, and ban it against the characters Marsulas mentioned.

 

[SinkingHigher]

imo,, if you need a stage with a yoshi's island type structure, just go with smashville.

Better for stagespiking and recovery.
Moving platform means easy jumptransform and edgeguarding.
Platform is consistently low enough for u-tilt and u-smash

 

[Blistering Speed]

IIRC Olimar is amazing on Luigi's.