~ Sheik True Combos ~ (WIP)

[Blad01]

SHEIK TRUE COMBOS​

So Sheik has a few true combos, and they are pretty cool ^^

(Work In Progress)​

The followings combos have been found on Training Mode, on several lvl9. They were count as consecutive hits before the CPU can move in any way.


How to read : The bold words are the movements initiators of the combo. The movements below are the ones that can continue the combo. For example : Second Jab can lead into a grab or into a DSmash / DTilt / FTilt at (very) high percentages.
The percentages in green indicate when your opponent get caught in the combo.
The percentages in blue indicate the combo's total damage

Second Jab (Crouch cancelled) :
* Grab
* DSmash, Dtilt, Ftilt (at ~180%...)

FTilt
* FTilt (30-80%)
* UTilt*
* USmash*
* Uair*
* Fair*
* Bair*
* Nair
* Jab

Nair (strong)
* Dash Attack

Nair (weak)
* Dash Attack (40%-120%) (12%)
* DACUS !* (needs more testing) (~128%)
* DSmash (20%-100%) (18%)
* FSmash ! (90%-100%) (18%)
* Jab (20%-100%)
* DTilt (20%-110%) (13%)
* FTilt (20%-100%) (10%)
* Grab (low %) / Dash Grab (high %)

Returned Nair (Weak)
* Trip > Basically what you want :D
* Everything possible with Weak Nair.

Fair
* Jab (low percents)
* FTilt
* DTilt
* DSmash
* Dash Attack
* DACUS ! (~70% on Bowser)

Sliding Grab Release
* FTilt (Ness, Lucas ?)
* Jab (Ness)
* Grab (Ness, Lucas)

Jumping Grab Release
* Grab (Squirtle)
* FTilt (Wario)
* USmash (Wario)
* DACUS (Lucas, Mario, Popo, Lucas, MetaKnight, Pikachu, Squirtle)
* Fair (Ness, Game&Watch)

*Depending on DI.

So now, be CREATIVE ! You can mix up these combos to your advantage. By example :
* At high percentages, SH Nair (weak Nair) > Dash Grab > Pummel > Jumping Grab Release > DACUS on Mario and others.
* Fair > FTilt > Jab > Grab at low percents.
* ETC

 

[East]

How exactly should we go about reading this? Kinda confused

[whisper]"psst. Crouch has no e.."[/whisper]

 

[Blad01]

Hum, i guess i can put a "How To read" introduction :

How to read : The bold words are the movements initiators of the combo. The movements below are the ones that can continue the combo. For example : Second Jab can lead into a grab or into a DSmash / DTilt / FTilt at (very) high percentages.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Anything that's not 2 stages?

I often use f-air to f-tilt to f-tilt to strong n-air at low percents.

Sometimes two ftilts wont work.

 

[ReoZeo]

Yeah..lol some ppl are too lazy to read and try to figure out this stuff like me
Maybe you should try making it more organized and easier to follow if possible haha

 

[TLMSheikant]

So DACUS can be setup easily on mk? My god *goes to test*.

 

[Blistering Speed]

This was great work by Blad01, bumpage for awesomeness.

Also, I request Sinking Higher add it to his thread pl0x.

 

[InnocentRoad]

WIP..

FTilt Frame Advantage
http://sunawani.fc2web.com/ssbb/sstilt_eng.html

 

[Blistering Speed]

Since when does Innocent Roads have a smashboards account. Judging by his Join Date, its Aug 08.

 

[Zankoku]

WIP..

FTilt Frame Advantage
http://sunawani.fc2web.com/ssbb/sstilt_eng.html

これはどのように働いていますか?
How does this work?

 

[Blad01]

Very interesting InnocentRoad, i tried with these settings :

- 50% stale-move negation
- 50% standing Mario (30 to 50% are with ftilt, i hope this is enough to have a 50% stale-move negation)

And this gives us a 4 frames advantage ! (so that basicly means that we can D-Smash without any possible reaction from the Mario).

 

[M15t3R E]

Can't the f-tilt spam be SDI'd out of by SDI's towards Sheik?

 

[Blad01]

Can't the f-tilt spam be SDI'd out of by SDI's towards Sheik?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199888

 

[Flamingo777]

u posting anymore?

 

[legion598]

ok so ur saying f-air and weak n-air combo into Ftilt because every time i try this it appears as though the opponent could throw up a shield between hits am i just not auto canceling the aerial correctly?

 

[Flamingo777]

ok so ur saying f-air and weak n-air combo into Ftilt because every time i try this it appears as though the opponent could throw up a shield between hits am i just not auto canceling the aerial correctly?

yep, you must have some landing lag... Don't worry this happens to me too >.<

 

[Rawr_]

It must be that, fair autocancels with so little lag you can fair > DACUS at the right %s.

 

[demodemo]

fair to dacus is too good, and even if the dacus fails, the dash attack will probably connect, which is still nice

 

[Demenise]

If they all depend on DI, then how are they "true" combos?

 

[InnocentRoad]

http://sunawani.fc2web.com/ssbb/sstilt_eng.html

V=((0.07*(Atk+2)*(Dmg+Atk)/(Weight/100)+18)*R.E.+R.A.)*0.9*0.72

Ftilt(Sheik)
Atk = 5*Stale
R.E. = 1
R.A. = 20
Theta = 90
Advantage Frame(Stand) = INT(V/1.62-17)
Advantage Frame(Crouch) = INT(V/1.62-18)
Advantage Frame(V>51.84) = -4(Air Dodge)
Advantage Frame(Shield) = INT(Atk/2.6+4)+INT(Atk/2.9)-INT((Atk/2.6+5)*0.5-1)-16

Weight
Mario 99
Luigi 98.5
Peach 95
Bowser 110
Donkey Kong 108
Diddy Kong 96.5
Yoshi 103.5
Wario 103.5
Link 102
Zelda 92.5
Sheik 92.5
Ganondorf 104.5
Toon Link 96
Samus 104
Zero Suit Samus 90.5
Pit 97
Ice Climbers 96
R.O.B. 103
Kirby 89
Meta Knight 89.5
King Dedede 106
Olimar 91
Fox 90
Falco 91
Wolf 101
Captain Falcon 102
Pikachu 89.5
Squirtle 87.5
Ivysaur 100
Charizard 105
Lucario 100
Jigglypuff 84
Marth 93.5
Ike 102
Ness 97
Lucas 97
Mr. Game & Watch 87.5
Snake 106.5
Sonic 97.5

 

[Tristan_win]

..... Does Tristan spot a formula for figuring out Advantage Frame on Shield?

Innocent road, I love you as much as a straight man could love another man... but what is the "INT"?

What is the integer, does anyone know?

“Advantage Frame(Shield) = INT(Atk/2.6+4)+INT(Atk/2.9)-INT((Atk/2.6+5)*0.5-1)-16"

Is anyone good in math? Someone try to figure this out!

Oh and Innocent road, http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175241 all numbers on Characters are done based off your site

 

[Zankoku]

INT means "closest integer of." So, if ftilt has 5 Atk, then INT(Atk/2.6+4) = INT(5/2.6+4) = INT(5.923) = 6

I'm impressed that he figured out the minimum velocity that sends into tumble, though.

 

[saviorslegacy]

http://sunawani.fc2web.com/ssbb/sstilt_eng.html

Nooooooo... he posted Peace of Piece. T-T

 

[Tristan_win]

Nooooooo... he posted Peace of Piece. T-T

....That address has been passed around on more than one occasion in the sheik forum in multiple threads. We all know of it for months now.

So why the "Noooo.."

 

[saviorslegacy]

....That address has been passed around on more than one occasion in the sheik forum in multiple threads. We all know of it for months now.

So why the "Noooo.."

Nvr mind... it's not important.

 

[InnocentRoad]

INT(INTEGER) ≈ Round down


WIP (5/5/09)

V[km/h]=((0.07*(Atk+2)*(Dmg+Atk)/(Weight/100)+18)*R.E.+R.A.)*0.9*0.72

Dmg = %

Ftilt(Sheik)
Atk = 5*Stale
R.E. = 1
R.A. = 20
CF = 0.5
Theta = 90
Cooldown = 16

Advantage Frame(Stand) = INT(V/1.62-(Cooldown+1))
Advantage Frame(Crouch) = INT(V/1.62-(Cooldown+1))+INT(((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)*(2/3))-INT((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)
Advantage Frame(V≥51.84,Stand)? = 14-(Cooldown+1)[Air Dodge] , 26-(Cooldown+1)[A Action]
Advantage Frame(V≥51.84,Crouch)? = 14-(Cooldown+1)+INT(((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)*(2/3))-INT((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)[Air Dodge] , 26-(Cooldown+1)+INT(((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)*(2/3))-INT((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)[A Action]
Advantage Frame(Shield) = INT(Atk/2.6+4)+INT(Atk/2.9)-INT((Atk/2.6+5)*CF-1)-Cooldown

Weight =
Mario 99
Luigi 98.5
Peach 95
Bowser 110
Donkey Kong 108
Diddy Kong 96.5
Yoshi 103.5
Wario 103.5
Link 102
Zelda 92.5
Sheik 92.5
Ganondorf 104.5
Toon Link 96
Samus 104
Zero Suit Samus 90.5
Pit 97
Ice Climbers 96
R.O.B. 103
Kirby 89
Meta Knight 89.5
King Dedede 106
Olimar 91
Fox 90
Falco 91
Wolf 101
Captain Falcon 102
Pikachu 89.5
Squirtle 87.5
Ivysaur 100
Charizard 105
Lucario 100
Jigglypuff 84
Marth 93.5
Ike 102
Ness 97
Lucas 97
Mr. Game & Watch 87.5
Snake 106.5
Sonic 97.5

 

[Crossjeremiah]

im mathmatically inclined to understand any of this can someone make a dummies guide for this what does v mean or cf are all those weight numbers the number they die at regardless of di from usmash?

 

[Tristan_win]

I highly doubt the "weight" is the % the fresh usmash will kill with di as I've tested marios and he will live up to 92%

I'm pretty **** sure you couldn't live for a extra 7% even with "Perfect DI"

 

[East]

I'm much more interested in how these formulas were calculated.

Can anyone enlighten me on the meaning of:

R.E.
R.A.
CF
Theta
Cooldown [What is the measurement in?]

The advantage frame calculations, are these if your opponent is standing, crouching, etc.? I don't think it's referring to the sheik, because I have no idea why a sheik would be moving at Velocity greater than or equal to 51.84 km/h. I also can't see the opponent standing or crouching at those speeds.

Then again, maybe it's not supposed to make sense at this point, it is still a work in progress.

 

[Leafplayer452]

I think I found a true combo:

lagless fair -----> jab ----> 2nd jab (most chars cant DI out of the thrid A so it wont be a true combo if I include the 3rd jab or whatever)

 

[saviorslegacy]

I think I found a true combo:

lagless fair -----> jab ----> 2nd jab (most chars cant DI out of the thrid A so it wont be a true combo if I include the 3rd jab or whatever)

I guess you could do that. Though f-tilt offers more options.

 

[Leafplayer452]

I guess you could do that. Though f-tilt offers more options.

Ftilt is too expected though and depending on the decay of the ftilt and fair, it probally won't work

 

[Zankoku]

If it's a true combo then expecting the ftilt won't do you a bit of good.

 

[saviorslegacy]

BTW... f-tilt> footstool is a true combo.

 

[Leafplayer452]

I know there are more true combos for Sheik, c'mon guys we gotta step it up!

 

[saviorslegacy]

I know there are more true combos for Sheik, c'mon guys we gotta step it up!

I am listing all known combo's, decay combo's and strings in my thread Rebellion.