Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[SSB_Hello]

i really like your profile pic, knee.

i'm fraud at short hp needle turn around to grab edge. must grind.

 

[Zeallyx]

i really like your profile pic, knee.

i'm fraud at short hp needle turn around to grab edge. must grind.

Thank you. Sheik's awesome<3

 

[Uncivilized Elk]

Can anybody link me (I assume this is far easier than writing it) to a list of who Shiek can chaingrab and at what percents?

 

[keninblack]

What moves, and strings should I avoid doing while the opponent is at low/white percentages? Any moves I should avoid doing because of being unsafe on hit and anything like that?

Also, what things should I be doing to efficiently get them up to kill %'s?

EDIT: Also, what are good methods of practice when you have no one to play casuals with that day? Playing AI? Training mode? If so, what things are worth working on?

 

[BTmoney]

This is directed at someone with a lot of experience but anyone can answer:

How do you wager using boost grab in neutral/as an opener vs JC grab? There are days when I'm boost grabbing all over the stage and slapping Marths silly but there are days when I miss and eat unnecessary punishes and it gets frustrating. It's so good but it's so laggy. Do high level Sheik players boost grab a lot? I don't think I notice it.

 

[Chrome Smash]

How do pros dash to shortjump to aerial? I always full jump and don't know an easy way to do it under pressure

 

[Purpletuce]

@ low %, usually opt for grabs or well spaced Nair/Fair/Bair. Dsmash and Usmash are also safe, but generally not something you'll be set up to use when your opponent is at low %. The biggest thing to learn to implement is for to build damage from grabs. Against fastfallers, grab will only set up for a tech chase, which is a relatively harder way to build damage. The thing you'll have to fear against fastfallers at low % is probably the CC shine, but you can abuse that tendency if you can land an aerial at low %, but space it well enough that they wiff, and punish their shine. Another thing to watch out for is if they are in the air and you knock them to the ground, they can land without lag and punish you for trying to follow up.

I'm not a 'pro' so I can't really answer about the SH or boost grab questions for sure. . . but I can say that I never boost grab. . . :\

 

[KirbyKaze]

This is directed at someone with a lot of experience but anyone can answer:

How do you wager using boost grab in neutral/as an opener vs JC grab? There are days when I'm boost grabbing all over the stage and slapping Marths silly but there are days when I miss and eat unnecessary punishes and it gets frustrating. It's so good but it's so laggy. Do high level Sheik players boost grab a lot? I don't think I notice it.

Look at how they're moving.

 

[Ecoh]

Hey all, I have two questions on grabs:

1. When should I regrab, when should I jab reset the grab, and when should I just techchase?

2. Today my training partner (a Marth) just Dolphin Slashed immediately after the downthrow on stages where it would allow him to reach the upper platform. What should I do in that case?

 

[Alulim]

1) Chaingrab happens against certain characters. Go search up chaingrabs in the Sheik forums and you'd find a list of chaingrab-able characters.Jab reset is done as soon as you see person who misses a tech. Tech chase is just ... following their tech when you score some kind of knockdown (typically from grab).

2) I don't know what you mean by this. If you read his DI properly and react in time after a down-throw, you can definitely score a fair to kill at higher percentages. Just predict his recovery and punish him for it. Upair is great for punishing above platforms

 

[Ecoh]

2) I don't know what you mean by this. If you read his DI properly and react in time after a down-throw, you can definitely score a fair to kill at higher percentages. Just predict his recovery and punish him for it. Upair is great for punishing above platforms

My bad, perhaps I didn't phrase that well: After downthrowing him he would Dolphin Slash, which would knock me away and get him to the upper platform. I'm not just letting him whiff me with no punishment. Am I simply not reacting fast enough?

 

[Alulim]

My bad, perhaps I didn't phrase that well: After downthrowing him he would Dolphin Slash, which would knock me away and get him to the upper platform. I'm not just letting him whiff me with no punishment. Am I simply not reacting fast enough?

You're inputting way too slow and attempting your attacks when he's out of stun. Check KirbyKaze's guide to throwing Marths. Do your tilts/fair/upair/whatever faster (Right out of the grab).

 

[hectohertz]

hey KK. love all the sheikrets. two questions:

when techchasing against fastfallers, at what percents against does it become viable to switch to dash attacks instead of regrabs?

i've read the how to punish marth guide a lot, and i can't seem to hit that up-air around 20%. i always seem to whiff it. any advice / vids of you executing that part of the flowchart?

 

[Sweet™]

@ Ecoh If someone misses a tech, you will see a green flash underneath them when they hit the ground. As soon as you see that green flash that is your chance to jab reset.

@ hectohertz above 30% because they can't CC anything above it, iirc. (KK can confirm if I'm right) There's no set time when you should dash attack instead of regrab, It depends on what feels right to you, where you're at on the stage, etc.

 

[Salevits]

Critique my Sheik:

Salevits (Sheik) vs Mayhem (Fox)
Salevits (Sheik) vs Mayhem (Falco)
Salevits (Sheik) vs Mayhem (Falcon)
Salevits (White Sheik) vs Mayhem (Red Sheik)

 

[KirbyKaze]

hey KK. love all the sheikrets. two questions:

when techchasing against fastfallers, at what percents against does it become viable to switch to dash attacks instead of regrabs?

i've read the how to punish marth guide a lot, and i can't seem to hit that up-air around 20%. i always seem to whiff it. any advice / vids of you executing that part of the flowchart?

Tech chasing FFers with dash attack vs grab is mostly just raw potential vs consistency. Dash attack potentially leads to jab resets, u-smashes, d-smashes, and other goodies. However, grab is generally more reliable for damage building and unless they roll to a position where d-throw becomes edgecancelable, it gives you more control.

That uair is hard (for the DI explanations, assume you're facing right when you grab them). If they're 1 o'clock DIing then you need to [dash+SH] --> [uair] immediately after your d-throw elapses because they're gonna pop up above & a bit in front of you (too far for u-tilt to reach). If they go behind you (9 o'clock DI), you can simply [SH]-->[uair], then immediately drift into him and usually get him. Any number between 8 and 12 you can simply [SH]-->[uair] and get him. The tricky part is getting the uair out ASAP while rising, and it's even tougher when you have to dash into it. If there's a platform nearby, it can be worthwhile at this percent to f-tilt him (18-19% before the throw) and [d-throw]-->[f-tilt] him to put him on the platform in knockdown, and then go for the uairs.

 

[KirbyKaze]

http://smashboards.com/threads/a-qu...ic-d-throws-combos-under-construction.312070/

A much needed update

Expect it done soonish

The Beginner's Guide to Positioning (complete with visuals) will be done eventually but I need more pictures for it which means I need to get my Dazzle working again

 

[Ecoh]

So, while messing around with Sheik's foxtrot, I found something interesting. If you perform one foxtrot and after a slight delay hit A, Sheik will perform her dash attack at a near full stop. Though I haven't used it against an actual human opponent, I think it would be extremely useful; if used in a foxtrot dance, the A input is almost completely indistinguishable from simply another step in the dance.

Does anyone have experience with this? What do you all think of its usefulness?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I've been thinking of working that into my tech chase vs Falco

 

[Sweet™]

I do something similar with that with moonwalking as an approach mixup.

You can ftilt from the moonwalk by holding the direction, or you can dash attack to get out of the way by holding the direction is Sheik is starting during the moonwalk. Hard to explain. :l

 

[hectohertz]

Tech chasing FFers with dash attack vs grab is mostly just raw potential vs consistency. Dash attack potentially leads to jab resets, u-smashes, d-smashes, and other goodies. However, grab is generally more reliable for damage building and unless they roll to a position where d-throw becomes edgecancelable, it gives you more control.

That uair is hard (for the DI explanations, assume you're facing right when you grab them). If they're 1 o'clock DIing then you need to [dash+SH] --> [uair] immediately after your d-throw elapses because they're gonna pop up above & a bit in front of you (too far for u-tilt to reach). If they go behind you (9 o'clock DI), you can simply [SH]-->[uair], then immediately drift into him and usually get him. Any number between 8 and 12 you can simply [SH]-->[uair] and get him. The tricky part is getting the uair out ASAP while rising, and it's even tougher when you have to dash into it. If there's a platform nearby, it can be worthwhile at this percent to f-tilt him (18-19% before the throw) and [d-throw]-->[f-tilt] him to put him on the platform in knockdown, and then go for the uairs.

for the first part: yeah i almost always just regrab regrab regrab. someone suggested that i could increase my consistency by going for dash-attacks earlier, rather than trying to regrab to 60+ and then going for dash attack -> fair -> edgeguard. i was mostly wondering roughly what percent FFers can't just CC / other bs so that dash attack becomes a viable combo starter / forces them to tech. i totally get that its suboptimal. as you said, raw potential v. consistency


also for the second part, okay awesome. i will try! thanks KK you're the best

ps. the formatting on the how to combo guide looks good. can't wait to see it when it's done

 

[milligraham]

Does anyone have advice for Sheik vs Peach?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Focus on landing grabs. D-throw --> f-tilt / fair

She can't do much about your defensive / retreat bairs from the air.

Swat her out of the air if she floats too close or threaten to swat her out of the air.

Needles are amazing.

 

[mesa23]

i need some help vs falco

can someone point me towards some crazy good post with lots of useful info about the MU?

edit: nvm, i read that stickied matchup thread thing and that's giving me enough to work on.

 

[Sweet™]

This character is so Goddamn frustrating. I can't do anything at all ever.

 

[Laudandus]

There are a few things you can do sometimes

 

[Sweet™]

Teach me Laudandus.

 

[Laudandus]

Don't use anything until they're around 50%, because they'll just crouch cancel everything.

After that do whatever you want

 

[KirbyKaze]

At least we aren't Mario or some other ****ty low tier who has to footsie with a smash attack that's punishable on block.

When all else fails we have needles, WD back, and that enormous grab to fall back on.

edit: Fair and bair are stupidly good too.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Sheik is broken wtf are you guys talking about

try playing pal my ******

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik really is broken

I maintain she's the most competitive char in NTSC but people say I'm crazy for thinking that

But I mean Sheik has Peach/Ganon-esque hitboxes on moderate strength aerials that come our mostly faster and hit better areas

Air needles are amazing for combos and policing approach zones

Ground needles also amazing for baiting or provoking or dealing free damage

She also has fast, huge normals that lead to reliable combos and follows while covering jump ins and other important spots so she can control her close areas super well and force people to constantly work around this

Her huge grab and d-throw are obviously lol broken and her b-throw gimping is second to none IMO

I understand your frustrations -- she can't jump approach on a crouch or shield with frame-safe broken mixups nor does she have a broken dd, a sword, or the gift of flight. Her chain grab on the spacies is 8x harder than Peach/Fox/Marth's and she doesn't have Falco's 60% auto combo on them either. So she's hard to play -- I won't beat around the bush. She's not easy.

But the upside is that once you learn her stuff she has everything she needs to beat every character and it works. She isn't good if you want a character who can autopilot. Pick a dder or Falco if you want that.

 

[SUNG475]

I was actually plannin on goin falco/marth v fox for the next tourney (last 2 tourneys lost to westballz [fox], lucky, sfat, fiction) but I'm inspired to level up now and go pure sheik I have a lot to understand

Gunna think about flowcharts and finally learn how to edgeguard

 

[Laudandus]

Yeah, actually I can't even play other characters besides Sheik because they aren't fun enough. I'm not actually very frustrated I love this character

I used to think she was 4th at best because she lost too badly to IC's/Puff, but lately I feel like those matchups are just a little disadvantaged, which still makes Sheik worse than Fox unless you believe she beats Fox by an equivalent amount. I used to also think Falco/Marth were cooler than Sheik, though, and they definitely aren't.

Sung, I really want to play you next time I go to socal / you go to norcal

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik vs spacies is even, you just need to know a lot whereas their base strats are basically amazing vs you and work like they do vs any other poking char with low air mobility.

Sheik vs Puff is also even, but it's a really bizarre matchup and technically demanding on the Sheik (whereas Puff does her usual duck --> ground movement pressuring / bair camps / throw trap gimps / tries to get under you). But you have everything you need to shut those down and get clean hits.

I think on most stages Sheik is okay vs ICs but they beat her solidly on FD IMO and I also think YS is good for them too. Poof --> CG --> wobble is such a good edgeguard on a low percent Sheik. Sheik's launch combos and juggles **** them though. They don't have a real way down.

And yeah Sheik's edgeguarding is so freakin' cool.

 

[BTmoney]

vs spacies can you walk forward fast enough after dthrow to usmash DI away + tech in place/no tech after your dthrow?

dthrow->they DI max distance away and they either tech in or don't tech
Can you reach that with a walk?

Does usmash cover both tech in place & no tech? I'm trying to streamline my punishes vs spacies

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Does usmash cover both tech in place & no tech? I'm trying to streamline my punishes vs spacies

It does but you have to react and adjust your timing a bit depending on which option they choose. Tech on place is bit trickier because you must hit exactly when their vulnerability frames wear off after teching. Prediction is the hard part because it is mandatory.

 

[BTmoney]

It does but you have to react and adjust your timing a bit depending on which option they choose. Tech on place is bit trickier because you must hit exactly when their vulnerability frames wear off after teching. Prediction is the hard part because it is mandatory.

thanks, do you happen to know when dthrow->ftilt starts working vs Falco (or fox) vs incorrect DI
(for example, if they don't DI away, dthrow->dsmash starts working at about 90%)

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

thanks, do you happen to know when dthrow->ftilt starts working vs Falco (or fox) vs incorrect DI
(for example, if they don't DI away, dthrow->dsmash starts working at about 90%)

Never because I play PAL

 

[KirbyKaze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ko0W8XQPs8&list=PLZX_XXIJgUYBVT_ylFT5CvrBH868f5wJP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCZGLMY4Y6M&list=PLZX_XXIJgUYBVT_ylFT5CvrBH868f5wJP

LFs and GFs from a recent teams tournament.

Fun matches, been working hard to improve my teams game.

 

[the_palmerfan]

As I've been playing more, I've realized just how garbage my platform game on FoD is. It's gotten to the point where I have to ban that stage or else I'm free for a game. Can someone give me the rundown on the basics of how to work the stage? Main things I'd like to know are basic platform cycles and my options for standing on them and being underneath them.