Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[KirbyKaze]

U-throw U-tilt by Marth doesn't combo until about 20-25 or so (approximation). You can do stuff about it prior to that percentage. If Marth U-throws at 0 you can actually not DI it and Nair him through whatever he attempts afterwards unless he attempts to CC into something or shield --> something and nobody does that. I'm not even sure if the shield thing works because of how stupid Sheik's Nair speed is.

Until about 20 Sheik is just fine if she's grabbed by Marth, just pay close attention and be aware of what his follows are. Obviously this doesn't work every time, but it keeps you alive more often than not. After about 60-65 he can't U-throw combo anyways do really just aim to be either above 65 or below 20 and you can keep him from getting a big momentum-shifting combo very easily.

But again my Marth experience is somewhat limited to Azen, Neo, PKM, I.B, Vwins, and Europhoria so what do I know. Regrettably, I have not had the pleasure of the M2K experience in that particular matchup. And, sadly, I doubt I will get that chance because he goes Sheik vs other Sheiks. Gay.

 

[brickman]

U-throw U-tilt doesn't combo until about 20-25 or whatever.

I didn't suggest the v's mean or.

Symbolic logic, wooo.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I already addressed that it doesn't save you every single time, especially on FD, where there are no helpful platforms to replenish your jumps, but the fact that it does not connect because of the insufficient hitstun gives you enough to work with to escape it at least part of the time. Marth, on the contrary, receives no such boon from Sheik when he's grabbed.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

yeah seriously, Peach can fight Marth very effectively. she can 0 - 40+ combo him which is a good start and the rest of match is just punishing his movements, throwing turnips and edge guarding.

Eh. I just figured since Peach has a disadvantage and Sheik has an advantage, most people would go Sheik.

It's not too hard to get a few percent on Sheik from zero. Just fthrow to regrab... which I think can be DI'd then buffered spotdodge out of, but it rarely seems to happen.

Still, the uthrow utilt whatever combos never feel as solid as Sheik's dthrow to whatever combos.

 

[Teczer0]

Marth does NOT have uthrow uptilt combos on sheik.

Sheik CAN escape it at very low percents. Sheik can double jump away from the up-tilt at low percents. The reason why Marth's upthrow can be so good is because sheik is so helpless in the air vs Marth. As a sheik being upthrown I just try to run and land because counterattacking a good marth just gets you re-grabbed.

Drephen's advice is REALLY useful and should be listened to really. NEVER approach from the air!!!!! Sheik is too helpless in the air.

Fighting Falco on FoD is brutal with Sheik. It doesn't give Sheik much of an advantage but allows Falco to do d-air combos/shield pressure on low platforms. As long as falcos are aware of the platforms they typically don't get screwed with their lasers.

Vanz is crazy and he likes stacked matches >_>. Peach vs Marth is terrible but he is just so used to it so he does it. I dunno too much about peach vs marth so.... yea.....

So Sheik vs. Marth from a Marth's perspective.
Super difficult match-up. Like 60/40 or 65/35 if the Marth has a good CC game. Like 70/30 or worse if the Marth can't CC.

Needles shut down my whole ground game and force me to be in the air a lot
Sheik can CC grab me for just about everything I do especially in the air
Ergo it's hard/impossible to approach Sheik
Sheik has needles so I have to approach

At best I can WD out of shield a lot and try to space like that but because the needles auto-cancel/Sheik has no lag in general I get ***** like that too.

Off stage... If I have to up+b (F-air > Sweet spot... ledge-tech b-airs is not a viable solution), or if you can get the ledge before I can with my jump I'm dead unless you mess up. At least Sheik can land on the very edge to cut the lag to nothing/she has options to trick me and make it back.

If the Sheik knows what DI is (this is crucial, your DI has to not suck) it's a monstrous challenge for me to even put you in a scenario where I can kill you. On the flip side... Sheik has stuff that I can't do anything about no matter how well I DI/Crouch Cancel.

For the first part why do you always approach from the air? Marth is fast and he can shield needles then start to DD again. Even if you can't PS needles you can just DD camp sheiks, and if the try to shoot needles at close - mid range you can SH dair -> grab.

Off stage vs sheik IS rough and I have to agree there however, same goes for sheik vs ...... over half the cast.

Sheik's DI does allow her to escape some combos and while marth can't do a guaranteed 50% or whatever combo on sheik he can put her in a scenario to get re-grabbed. First after upthrow he can uptilt, that forces a double jump because if you get hit he is just going to uptilt again until you double jump. Then he can chase with fair blah blah whiff more things into grabs.

 

[Europhoria]

If there are platforms you can just take the u-tilt and escape with them >_> The only place I can really do anything from an up-throw even with awful DI is like FD/Stadium when it's not transformed. Marth CANNOT put you into a scenario where you'll be re-grabbed. Take the 30-40% from the up-tilts if you're too high to N-air out/can't hit a platform and then jump onto a platform or whatever and that's it. That's ALL he can do... and it stops working at like 40-50 without platforms anyways.

Then there's the problem of actually combo-ing a sheik. Most sheik players just SPAM survival DI. But due to her unique physics it's still hard to combo her >_> I've ken combo'd a sheik at NINETY on YOSHI'S and she jumped and managed to up+b to ledge before I hit the ground. That's disgusting >_> When a Sheik knows what combo DI is, it gets even worse.

I mentioned that if I shield and WD out to try and keep spacing/approach that I'm dead anyways right? Because in the lag they can shffl a f-air or grab me, or do something. Her needles really kill my ground game. At close range DD camp is really dangerous because they can just f-tilt me or dash attack me... so I have to approach into crouch/shield otherwise her moves have that come out super fast, have huge priority and no lag afterward will **** the hell out of me.

Off stage... it's so much easier to get back against Marth with Sheik then it is to get back as Marth vs. Sheik. You have options and from lower % nothing Marth does sends you far enough. From any % Marth is dead.

 

[Teczer0]

Well for me I don't really have a lot of trouble vs sheik as long as its not DL64 or Battlefield. I still don't have problems chasing sheiks under the platforms and stuff but w/e.

Comboing sheik is kinda weird, I usually just chain fairs and ... stuff....

Wow at surviving a Ken combo at 90 O_O.

I generally don't have problems with sheik close game using DDing I just play defensively or poke shields. Maybe I'm weird *shrugs*

From either perspective I think coming back is hard. I think they wreck each other off the stage pretty bad.

 

[Cia]

Marth does NOT have uthrow uptilt combos on sheik.
Sheik CAN escape it at very low percents. Sheik can double jump away from the up-tilt at low percents. The reason why Marth's upthrow can be so good is because sheik is so helpless in the air vs Marth. As a sheik being upthrown I just try to run and land because counterattacking a good marth just gets you re-grabbed.

Drephen's advice is REALLY useful and should be listened to really. NEVER approach from the air!!!!! Sheik is too helpless in the air.

Fighting Falco on FoD is brutal with Sheik. It doesn't give Sheik much of an advantage but allows Falco to do d-air combos/shield pressure on low platforms. As long as falcos are aware of the platforms they typically don't get screwed with their lasers.

Vanz is crazy and he likes stacked matches >_>. Peach vs Marth is terrible but he is just so used to it so he does it. I dunno too much about peach vs marth so.... yea.....



For the first part why do you always approach from the air? Marth is fast and he can shield needles then start to DD again. Even if you can't PS needles you can just DD camp sheiks, and if the try to shoot needles at close - mid range you can SH dair -> grab.

Off stage vs sheik IS rough and I have to agree there however, same goes for sheik vs ...... over half the cast.

Sheik's DI does allow her to escape some combos and while marth can't do a guaranteed 50% or whatever combo on sheik he can put her in a scenario to get re-grabbed. First after upthrow he can uptilt, that forces a double jump because if you get hit he is just going to uptilt again until you double jump. Then he can chase with fair blah blah whiff more things into grabs.

hey.. hey.. Don't go contradicting me on the Sheik boards you *******. and when you do that gay Fthrow > Uthrow > Utilt BS, I said that I take the first Utilt so that I have a chance at jumping away safely. if I use my jump after the Uthrow, it's so easy for marth to chase sheik for potential 0 - death edgeguard.

and my DI is flawless so no DI johns plz

 

[The Dragon]

hey.. hey.. Don't go contradicting me on the Sheik boards you *******. and when you do that gay Fthrow > Uthrow > Utilt BS, I said that I take the first Utilt so that I have a chance at jumping away safely. if I use my jump after the Uthrow, it's so easy for marth to chase sheik for potential 0 - death edgeguard.

and my DI is flawless so no DI johns plz

i agree with this smart man, it happens and its painful.

 

[KevinM]

Edgeguarding spacies is even MORE fun

EDIT:

Would it help if I talked about our match up vs bowser?

Spam needles and CG 0-death

I think Sheik is actually one of Bowser's more favorable top tier match-ups :D.

not that its good, but certainly not as one sided as its made out to be.

<3 Tec

 

[-Wolfy-]

I used to main Bowser before I started to actually travel more often (Sheik/Fox now), and I'm no KevinM by any rate, but I would agree with the sentiment that Sheik is not the worst of Bowser's matchups. It's still a fairly difficult match for a Bowser to win against a legitimate Sheik.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Why are we talking about Bowser vs Sheik.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

because its the most important matchup of sheiks...durrrrr HAPPY BIRTHDAY

 

[RaynEX]

and my DI is flawless so no DI johns plz

If I play you and ken combo you once you owe me monies.

 

[Cia]

LOL.. it's funny because Alukard was having trouble "fighting" DJ Nintendo's Bowser w/ Sheik because he wasn't CGing. Idk, I kinda find that to be un-acceptable. (no offense to Alu)

sheik v bowser is like 8-2. w/o CG.. it's probably like 75-25. I would need some serious convincing to think otherwise.
But DJN says he MUCH rather fight Sheik than Peach w/ Bowser. LOL @ us discussing Bowser. Maybe someday he'll be a threat..

 

[The Dragon]

bowser is pretty funny, although i agree with kevinm that marth and the spacies **** boozer harder than shiek

 

[KirbyKaze]

While I won't pretend to have oodles of Bowser experience I don't see what he has on Sheik's... anything.

 

[Cia]

If I play you and ken combo you once you owe me monies.

HAHAAAA

you're more than welcome to try. I haven't been ken combo since.. .. like the day I left Pallet Town.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Vanz you're silly.

 

[BrawlLover]

Sheik is a REALLY good character.

 

[The Dragon]

HAHAAAA

you're more than welcome to try. I haven't been ken combo since.. .. like the day I left Pallet Town.

he wants to be the very best, the best that ever wassssssssssss

to catch him is the real test, his di deserves applausssse

 

[Europhoria]

I'm gonna super DBR combo Vanz

 

[DtJ Jungle]

DBR combos require DBR DI....no?

 

[KirbyKaze]

PeterX DI > DBR DI

 

[DtJ Jungle]

LOL PeterX DI hehehe

 

[Cia]

LMAO I'm going to **** all of you at bullhead. then we can all go get food, and talk about effective ways to beat Bowser.

It's going to be amazing.

 

[KirbyKaze]

^ IMma raep u

 

[BrawlLover]

dbr combo is so tough, you can never tell how your opponent is gonna di

 

[DtJ Jungle]

raep hurts

 

[The Dragon]

its not ****, its surprise sex

 

[DtJ Jungle]

it still hurts

 

[KirbyKaze]

Some of the DI on the DBR combo videos is a mindgame in and of itself. The thought process resembles something close to:

"I could Uair but if he combo DIs this, I lose my chance to do my finisher. Oh hey, they didn't combo DI so I can now go for my combo finisher... or I could Uair. I could Uair but if he combo DIs this..."

And that repeats anywhere between 7-16 times per clip.

 

[BrawlLover]

just gotta sing touch my body to get rid of pain

 

[Teczer0]

Oh thanks for telling me that vanz

Now Im going to pull a Reik and do like f-tilt to regrab you or something

10Reikisgodtieratcombos

 

[Cia]

WTF, you already do it. where's do you think I learned it from!? you play sooo gayly that you don't even know your gay tactics. You just do things to be mean and hurtful to others lolz.

edit: oh, I thought you said Utilt > re-grab. Ftilt > regrab would never ever work and attempting it would be worse then that time I was edge guarding everyone w/ Kirby's Down + B

oh, and what's you're youtube account?? cuz it's not Teczero8.. I know, because I've tried

 

[RaynEX]

LMAO I'm going to **** all of you at bullhead. then we can all go get food, and talk about effective ways to beat Bowser.

It's going to be amazing.

alright I'm quoting this.

If I 4 stock you, give me more monies.

 

[Cia]

LOL.. I really can't remember the last time that's happened either.. so ok HAHA

 

[Teczer0]

WTF, you already do it. where's do you think I learned it from!? you play sooo gayly that you don't even know your gay tactics. You just do things to be mean and hurtful to others lolz.

edit: oh, I thought you said Utilt > re-grab. Ftilt > regrab would never ever work and attempting it would be worse then that time I was edge guarding everyone w/ Kirby's Down + B

oh, and what's you're youtube account?? cuz it's not Teczero8.. I know, because I've tried

My youtube account is Teczer0.

That O is a zero lol.... I fail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTnXA5SRyXM

Fawwwwwwken Reik! WHY DID YOU STOP PLAYING

 

[Cia]

ooooh, now put up our videos!!!!

 

[Teczer0]

ooooh, now put up our videos!!!!

Hey... give me some time...

When I have free time and my mom doesn't need her computer (Probably this weekend when my cousins leave for Illinois) I will