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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
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Cleveland, Ohio
Just go to youtube and type in "soap sheik" and copy whatever you see.

But for real just find decent people to play with. Play. You'll figure it out.

Welcome to smashboards
 

Reptar

Smash Apprentice
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I play with KevinM and Ryu on a daily basis, their 401 smashers as well, but I will look you up on youtube. Thanks for the welcome
 

Reptar

Smash Apprentice
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Things like d-throw, d-smash? I'm almost positive these combo together. I try to space with her b-air because it has ridiculous range. Thanks for the video link
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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You should be trying to space more than your Bair. Also, vs grounded opponents her Bair has pretty much the same range as her Fair. This is because her Bair's angle is poor for hitting grounded opponents (they're below the most disjointed, most extended part of her leg) and her range gets nerfed consequently.

Sheik vs most characters is a mix of zoning or spacing with tilts and aerials. You dash attack or grab openings as you see them, and generally play a keep out game. You can be aggressive if you want and apply pressure with spaced moves but it's generally difficult to rush directly into the fray a la Fox or Falco. You don't cover as much ground when you jump (you actually are fairly stationary during SHs) so it's not as effective as it is with them. Fortunately her range makes jumping around still viable and she has some nice heavy aerials so it's worth doing.

Whether things like D-throw and D-smash combo together depends entirely on which character you're fighting and percents. Generally you're going to wind up tech chasing space animals and Falcon. Otherwise her combo game is mostly:

If you can CG them for DI away - do it
If you can't CG them for DI away - if you can Dash Attack do it, otherwise probably Fair or F-tilt, if you can Uair do it
If you can U-tilt them without being punished - do it
If you can Uair them without being punished - do it
If you can put them offstage with Nair, Fair, or similar at above like 40% - do it
 

Reptar

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This post is going to help me an extroidinary amount. Thankyou very much but I do have a few questions. The way you desribed the zoning and spacing it seems as if Sheik is more of a defensive character and rushdown if I can get away with it? I learned the whole "generally difficult to rush directly into the fray a la Fox or Falco." from getting absolutely slaughtered by trying to do so against KevinM's spacies. Could you explain how to practice CG's because I have alot of trouble with it and i know it is vital. Maybe a link to a video if you dont feel like explaining. Thankyou again
 

gm jack

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
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Reading/Cambridge, UK
If you are playing the NSTC version of the game, I believe the chain grab is just dthrow., follow DI and regrab on all the characters it works on. Just grab a low tier (bowser will be fine) and get the gist of it.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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Spiral Mountain
This post is going to help me an extroidinary amount. Thankyou very much but I do have a few questions. The way you desribed the zoning and spacing it seems as if Sheik is more of a defensive character and rushdown if I can get away with it? I learned the whole "generally difficult to rush directly into the fray a la Fox or Falco." from getting absolutely slaughtered by trying to do so against KevinM's spacies. Could you explain how to practice CG's because I have alot of trouble with it and i know it is vital. Maybe a link to a video if you dont feel like explaining. Thankyou again
Meh whether you're aggressive or not is your own call.

It's easier to run defense with her (like with every character) but she is versatile enough to be aggressive. Just not in the sense that she can dive in headfirst.

I say she can't dive in headfirst for a few reasons.

Most importantly, her jump doesn't take her far, so her aerials are largely stationary. So she can't really dive into a dash dance or whatever with a SHFFL Nair or anything like that. Not like Falcon or Fox or whatever. Her projectile doesn't work while moving like Falco's or Peach's, so she can't operate that way either. Not being able to cover ground with an aerial or projectile --> aerial sucks for a variety of reasons, but most notably she misses out on a lower lag aerial approach. Which means she has to cover ground with her dash attack, grab, or boost grab, which have lots of lag.

The other problem is that Sheik's "no lag" moves (namely her tilts) actually do have lag. But it's low enough to generally be safe if you're spaced. But if you're not, they become wildly unsafe vs most characters (sometimes they're unsafe even when spaced but more on that later). Exception is U-tilt, sort of. U-tilt is a strange move. Its vulnerabilities are awkwardly placed so it's sort of safe, sort of not safe. When you're moving forward quickly, like with dashes and whatnot, it's difficult to have that kind of spacing. And the opponent can take advantage of that sort of thing.

So her offense, as a result, largely a game of positioning yourself so you can pressure safely at a good range. There's a lot of waiting involved, usually. Amsah does this sort of thing fairly well. I would suggest watching him if you want to see it.

On that note, I don't want to give the impression that you can't Dash Attack or boost grab against dash dance camps and that you always have to play this patient waiting game because those ludicrously offensive plays have their purpose and can be very useful for hitting people out of risky dash dances. They can be very good at times. But generally you have to respect and understand that, at least while attacking, she is either less mobile or less safe than the other top tiers.
 

KirbyKaze

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Double post because this is unrelated to the other and I don't feel like using a dividing line

To practice CGs you have a few ways to do it

I use training mode, set the CPU to "Attack", and then grab --> grab. They should DI away on the second grab. Maybe set the damage to like 15 or so when you're first learning it and gradually lower it. Remember that a lot of characters can't be regrabbed at 0, like Ganon.

You can also do this by setting them to "Evade". They'll DI to try and get away. If you grab them out of the air after they jump over you (you face the way they're jumping) then they'll DI away. This is a good way to work on DI-away specific chain grabs like Marth (0-30/40 I think?), Peach (0-20), and Marios (0-??).

========== inputs ==========

The actual input to get DI away is Z > down > forward + Z

I think for Peach/Mario/Doc/Marth you might need to JC grab for the height after like 10 or so. Therefore the input is Z > down > forward > jump (x/y/up) + Z

Otherwise counter DI away with dash grab. NOT BOOST GRAB. Dash grab.

On characters that you can CG if they DI behind you just turn around and then Z. Dash grabbing can actually miss at higher percents. Same goes for if they don't DI away and do a slight DI or no DI. The dash grab being lower might miss. At super low percents it doesn't matter too much whether you dash grab behind or not but it matters at like 30%+ depending on character.
 

Reptar

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I actually just book marked this thread because of what you just posted back to me. Its that helpful, thankyou very much and its nice to know that the smash community is this friendly (or maybe just you), ill soon find out. haha Hopefully you will soon my Sheik in tourny mode soon ;]
 

nicaboy

Smash Champion
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sheik is so gay on teams i love her. She can tank **** so well and turn **** over with quick gimps on many chars except for like puff.

Her f air is so good on singles too :) love sheik
 

soap

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I didn't know you could regrab mario with DI away...my frand would always jump out

If u wana learn aggresive sheik, check out old KDJ mlg vids

I learned sheik by watching vids and stealing other peoples ****. Then I made up some stuff myself eventually.

KDJ, Forward, Drephen, Nihonjin, Captain Jack were the main vids I used to draw from
 

KirbyKaze

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I didn't know you could regrab mario with DI away...my frand would always jump out

If u wana learn aggresive sheik, check out old KDJ mlg vids

I learned sheik by watching vids and stealing other peoples ****. Then I made up some stuff myself eventually.

KDJ, Forward, Drephen, Nihonjin, Captain Jack were the main vids I used to draw from
I'm not 100% on Mario/Doc actually.

It's worked on all the Docs/Marios I've played though.
 

Reptar

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Meanest huh? For some reason I have a hard time beleiving so, and I have watched alot of KDJ's sheik vids but i always get distracted by seeing his pichu videos haha
 

KirbyKaze

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Captain Jack and Amsah are good. CJ is very old school but still educational. Him vs Ken at 0C2 is a good way to look at some of the basics of Marth vs Sheik. Returning from the ledge (his ledgedashes aren't close to perfect but he tries to do them, which is good), some kinds of edgeguarding (mostly lightshield edgehog stuff and general edge grabbing), and just how to generally play defensive vs Marth.
 

Reptar

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My Sheik has been getting destroyed lately by Marths so this is very important. There wasnt alot of chances for me to see edgeguarding unfortunately but a whole lot of Sheik trying to get to the ledge which is good forme to see. Any good vids of Amsah on point?
 

Pogogo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
321
How do you do that wierd hax triple jump with needles? Ive seen M2k and diesuperfly do it.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
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College Park, MD
Maybe he's talking about recovering with double jump -> needle turnaround -> up-b sweetspot before the vanish? It *looks* like a 3rd jump lol.
 

Reptar

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Iv watched alooot of videos from him and Iv never seen a third jump. But if you do find it even if it just "looks" like it, please link so i can watch
 

ChivalRuse

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My Sheik has been getting destroyed lately by Marths so this is very important. There wasnt alot of chances for me to see edgeguarding unfortunately but a whole lot of Sheik trying to get to the ledge which is good forme to see. Any good vids of Amsah on point?
That fsmash is just too cheap, huh? :)
 

Reptar

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Haha I wouldnt say that, but Im sure the opposng marth will catch on quick to a flurry of F-smashes hhaha
 

Reptar

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ohhhh yea thats the worst, but atleast you can span it and have the hope of maybe a screw up
 

Reptar

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Ministry, if you scroll up some you will see that KirbyKaze posted a whole mess of helpful Sheik information, and you may be helped by it, and in sequence may answer your defensive marth problem
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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I play with Ministry routinely and I've told him all I know about beating defensive Marths.

There's not really much to do... haha.

Though it's a really bad idea to do so, I jump and kick/slap them. And then grab. And then do like a 60 damage combo that puts them offstage. Of course I'm sure someone will tell me Marth ***** Sheik for doing stuff like that so I guess don't do it?

I also move around a lot and shield --> WD out of shield a lot. I think wavedash out of shield may very well be one of Sheik's best moves against Marth ahahaha.

Crouch cancel to forward tilt is sometimes good.

Grab, dash attack, and forward tilt are sometimes good.

Marth is so situation-specific it's hard to explain :(
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
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I'm no sheik main by any means, but i main marth. I find that marth's safest (maybe only actually safe) move is dtilt. Because of sheik's aerial mobility, she is kinda stuck on the ground for approaching (definitely not always, but in general she isn't very aerially mobile). If it wasnt for dtilt sheik could literally stand outside marth's sword range and any time he made a move she could dash attack/grab him out of his lag. Well, i guess she sorta can anyways haha. Thats really all i do as sheik vs marth.

maybe you can glean something out of this pretty useless information
 

Ministry

Smash Ace
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What happens when marth stands outside of sheiks range and Wd back / sh back fair/ dash dance grab when sheik approaches on the ground.

Sheik cant needle that close or will get punished

Marth can do the same thing sheik can do to marth. Sheik just gets more out of a grab.
 
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