Sheik (semi) confirmed

[Frostwraith]

Everything seems to point that:
1. Zelda has kept most of her moveset, if not it entirely.
2. The Phantom is an Assist Trophy.
3. Sheik is back and will be revealed later. That Sheik pose is obviously Sakurai teasing.

well one point is why would zelda be doing that pose, it's not her transforming because theres no light, no sparkles no nothing. Also this is probably the worst argument ever but i would like to bring it up, zelda was awful in brawl and melee cause she was an opposite to sheik being way to slow and having tons of lag to her moves and because she was tall and floaty she was really easy to kill and I just hope sakurai sees that and removes sheik

Removing Sheik won't necessarily make Zelda better. Not if she keeps the same proprieties.

 

[Sharkarat]

It should be noted I'm not Anti-Sheik. I'm not arguing if she's likely not.

Summary of FACTS working in Sheiks favor:
1) Zelda has retained her TP look as opposed to adopting her new SS incarnation - FACT

I disagree with this really being in favor of Sheik, it's just not against. The Phantom also fit better on TP than it would SS.
Also Link is pretty much TP Link and he doesn't have that kind of reasons for it.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

She just need a little more movement speed (bowser seems to get such a buff) and the ability to land some skills easier and i'll be fine.
Also, Sakurai stated for Bowser (interview) and Donkey Kong (miiverse) that they were "superstrong now" and we can hope for Zelda to get a power buff too, as she is in the strong characters... At least supposed to be strong.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I disagree with this really being in favor of Sheik, it's just not against. The Phantom also fit better on TP than it would SS.
Also Link is pretty much TP Link and he doesn't have that kind of reasons for it.

It's most definitely in Sheik's favor when you also add the fact she doesn't seem to have any new moves either. It shows that Sakurai is content with sticking to Zelda's roots as opposed to looking for newer sources of inspiration to draw from. That's good news for Sheik considering she hasn't played a major role in the Zelda series since OoT.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I think retaining the TP style is for differents reasons:

-Most detailed characters: compared to the SS link, TP link have some more detail. Same goes for Zelda and Ganondorf. (althought I like SS Zelda and secretly hope for an alternate costume, but i don't think it'll happen)

-Visual style: I think it's better for Zelda, Link and Ganondorf to come from the same game. And the last game where the 3 were toghether is TP.

Keeping Ganondorf and Sheik: yup, assuptions there, but it would just be weird if the weilders of the triforce aren't from the same game (as stated just above), plus Sheik have a TP appearance, althought being only a concept art.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I have very little patience for repeating myself, especially when it comes to the internet.

Polite way of saying: '**** you asshole, I'm right because I said stuff before.'

Ehh if Phantom Knight was an actual attack we most likely would have seen it in an update by now. In fact I don't think we've had a single update that showed off a new move for a veteran. So far if a vet has a new move it was revealed right off the bat.

Pit had his new Side B revealed a pretty damn long time after his reveal.

Are you all going to ignore the screenshots of Zelda in Brawl pulling the exact pose that she does next to the Phantom? Sorry Diddy, it's an assist trophy.

Since when do Assist Trophies attack so quickly after being summoned? Even with Zelda doing the summoning stance and all? The Phantom is most likely not one of the fastest attackers around. How come he already did a full swing with his blade after so quickly being released?

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Pit had his new Side B revealed a pretty damn long time after his reveal.

Because the develloper's direct happened so many months after the game reveal

Since when do Assist Trophies attack so quickly after being summoned? Even with Zelda doing the summoning stance and all? The Phantom is most likely not one of the fastest attackers around. How come he already did a full swing with his blade after so quickly being released?

Simple: By having Zelda realeasing her din's fire. I already stated that it looks like it, and proved there can be no fire effect with a Brawl screenshot.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Since when do Assist Trophies attack so quickly after being summoned? Even with Zelda doing the summoning stance and all? The Phantom is most likely not one of the fastest attackers around. How come he already did a full swing with his blade after so quickly being released?

So a new game doesn't mean he can't do assist trophies differently? Maybe he just made them all faster in general, you never know. You can't deny that the pose is the same, I even made sure one of the screenshots had the assist trophy in it. Besides, there were assists that worked almost immediately, the Excite Bikers for instance. The pose is quick, but it's still slow enough for the trophy to take action as well, you can see in one of the screenshots that the trophy had time to go off screen, just as you can see Zelda doing the pose in that picture with Link and Peach, she probably got a different assist trophy and it went off screen.

Simple: By having Zelda realeasing her din's fire. I already stated that it looks like it, and proved there can be no fire effect with a Brawl screenshot.

I've already proven what the pose is, Zelda does it after she uses an assist trophy in Brawl, it isn't Din's Fire. Here are the screenshots again:
[collapse=]

[/collapse]

 

[The Real Gamer]

Polite way of saying: '**** you *******, I'm right because I said stuff before.'

No not really... I'm not interested in arguing the maybes and hypotheticals. I'm looking at facts that can't be disputed against. I'm not going to waste time trying to change people's interpretation of said facts. I laid out in the OP and post #75 why Sheik is likely in the game. If you agree, great! If you don't, whatever! You believe what you choose.

Pit had his new Side B revealed a pretty damn long time after his reveal.

This is blatantly false.

His new shield move was revealed in the 8 minute gameplay reveal as well.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well the poses are really similar anyway, and the SSB4 pose have elements of both.
The din's fire seems more plausible to me, but I clearly don't rule out the AT possibility though (can't show again the din's fire screen as i'm on my smartphone, sorry)

 

[JamesDNaux]

Well the poses are really similar anyway, and the SSB4 pose have elements of both.
The din's fire seems more plausible to me, but I clearly don't rule out the AT possibility though (can't show again the din's fire screen as i'm on my smartphone, sorry)

It's blatantly the same pose, her arm even bends just like in the Phantom picture, the person that got the screenshots for me just didn't time it right. I assure you that if you pick up an assist trophy with Zelda that you will see the similarities, just try it in slow motion on training mode. It has nothing to do with Din's Fire.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

guys where the **** are you getting all these move confirming pictures?

I have not seen any of these. rofl

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

My wii can't read the brawl's disk at the moment :/

I see what similarities you find, especially the right arm, but she seems to have a too upright posture with the AT pose (compare how the heads are tilted).


The SSB4 pose seems to have the same dress angle, head tilt, torso angle and right arm to the din's fire pose.
Edit: don't know if I explained that well...

Ah, the joys of perception

 

[JamesDNaux]

My wii can't read the brawl's disk at the moment :/

I see what similarities you find, especially the right arm, but she seems to have a too upright posture with the AT pose (compare how the heads are tilted).


The SSB4 pose seems to have the same dress angle, head tilt, torso angle and right arm to the din's fire pose.
Edit: don't know if I explained that well...

Ah, the joys of perception

Compare Dedede's rocket hammer between Brawl and 4, his pose is slightly tweaked, he has a new expression, it's the same thing but painted fresh.

 

[The Real Gamer]

guys where the **** are you getting all these move confirming pictures?

I have not seen any of these. rofl

Just came out yesterday! http://smashboards.com/threads/zelda-image-gallery-update-january-10.344750/#post-16192202

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well, din's fire and AT pose can be slightly tweaked too, I guess.

The point is, this pose in SSB4 is not something new, that's quite clear, whoever of us is right.

It's not like she was doing her up-aerial

 

[JamesDNaux]

In any case, I'm just glad Diddy can't use the Phantom to **** on Sheik. Though he's going to find some other reason to say she's been cut, I'm sure.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Just came out yesterday! http://smashboards.com/threads/zelda-image-gallery-update-january-10.344750/#post-16192202

her up b looks so pretty ;____;

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I'll try to ask to a friend tomorrow to take screens with the same angle than the phantom screen for both AT and Din's fire pose, it will probably help pointing out similarities.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I'll try to ask to a friend tomorrow to take screens with the same angle than the phantom screen for both AT and Din's fire pose, it will probably help pointing out similarities.

See if they can catch her right when her arm bends on the AT pose, I was able to pause it there and it looks way closer to the Phantom pic. If only I could screencap.

 

[Katy Parry]

well one point is why would zelda be doing that pose, it's not her transforming because theres no light, no sparkles no nothing. Also this is probably the worst argument ever but i would like to bring it up, zelda was awful in brawl and melee cause she was an opposite to sheik being way to slow and having tons of lag to her moves and because she was tall and floaty she was really easy to kill and I just hope sakurai sees that and removes sheik

I hate repeating myself. That pose is the end of Sheik transforming back into Zelda. It's obviously its the end of the animation.

Polite way of saying: '**** you *******, I'm right because I said stuff before.'

Pit had his new Side B revealed a pretty damn long time after his reveal.

Since when do Assist Trophies attack so quickly after being summoned? Even with Zelda doing the summoning stance and all? The Phantom is most likely not one of the fastest attackers around. How come he already did a full swing with his blade after so quickly being released?

Actually, Pit had his Side B revealed in the Developer Direct, which was probably within a week after the game was finally revealed. So you're 100% wrong by that merit.

Pick up a trophy in slow motion, her arm does bend like in the Phantom picture, you just have to pause at the right moment.
[collapse=Thanks to AncientTobacco for these screenshots!]

[/collapse]
He missed the arm bend too, but here's Zelda making almost exactly the same pose, after releasing an assist trophy.

Why aren't we taking these into the final consideration?

EDIT: OOh, Triple post? Complete accident. Sorry about that.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I hate repeating myself. That pose is the end of Sheik transforming back into Zelda. It's obviously its the end of the animation.

there would still be some sort of effect

 

[Morbi]

there would still be some sort of effect

Not necessarily, we do not know if Sakurai changed the way the animation works, that is a very real possibility. I mean he already changed the visual effects on her f-tilt, so I doubt he would be opposed with tweaking her transformation pose.

 

[MechaWave]

Why isn't Diddy banned yet? Constant ****poster keeps making you all reply to his bait.

All of her specials have been shown, except Nayru's Love. Transform, to me, has a new animation based off of process of elimination.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

So! My friend took some screens of both poses.

Spoiler: TA pose

Spoiler: Din's fire release

Spoiler: SSB4 screen

So about similarities...

-TA pose: Her left arm is straight in front of her (bent or not) and she also look in front of her.
Din's Fire: There's is the dress movement, especially the ... thing with the triforce and all. Also, her torso is a bit rotated, wich happens eventually during din's fire.

The only difference, in both poses is the fact that Zelda's right arm is more behind her.

... In the end, I think it can still be both, as they both have similarities and differences. I'm more toward the Din's fire idea for the dress movement and overall convenience of the screen, and the fact that the phantom is already attacking. But I can't deny it can also be the TA pose. Afterall, Sakurai can probably do whatever he want (he already took a screen with Luigi with an angle player can't achieve both in Melee and Brawl). He also did a trailer with Zelda doing her entrance animation next to Link doing his taunt, something impossible in game.

Spoiler: Luigi's screen

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why isn't Diddy banned yet? Constant ****poster keeps making you all reply to his bait.

All of her specials have been shown, except Nayru's Love. Transform, to me, has a new animation based off of process of elimination.

I should be banned for having an opinion? Get real kid.

You know as much as I do. I just hold a different view of what is going to happen than the majority. Try and report me then, and see if I can get banned.

The 'Sheik pose' indeed looks a like a new animation all togheter. And all specials but her Down B have been revealed. The pose Zelda does is not her AT release pose at all. Everyone is just TOO DAMN EAGER to proof me wrong as quickly as possible, but looks like you won't have that luck.

Now go cry in a corner cause I have an opinion or something.

 

[Katy Parry]

I should be banned for having an opinion? Get real kid.

You know as much as I do. I just hold a different view of what is going to happen than the majority. Try and report me then, and see if I can get banned.

The 'Sheik pose' indeed looks a like a new animation all togheter. And all specials but her Down B have been revealed. The pose Zelda does is not her AT release pose at all. Everyone is just TOO DAMN EAGER to proof me wrong as quickly as possible, but looks like you won't have that luck.

Now go cry in a corner cause I have an opinion or something.

HOW is is not her AT pose at ALL?

Of ALL of her poses from past games, that's the ONLY one that matches up PERFECTLY. Din's Fire is completely ruled out because Zelda's hand is straight up, not curved at all.

No one is eager to prove your wrong. This is a debate. Something to do while we wait. But there's no reason for ANY of you, not just Diddy, to be making shots like that at each other.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

The pose Zelda does is not her AT release pose at all.

It still could be, even If think the chances are really small.

Remember, a Brawl trailer from E3 2007 has shown us Zelda doing her entrance, next to Link doing his side taunt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM2n_BEYYD4 around 0:54. This is something we can't acheive in game.

Also, Zelda's move were shown several months later: http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/characters/zelda.html

Let's go back in 2007, not knowing her move. It could have been anything, like a new neutral B where she heal herself (why not?).

 

[Katy Parry]

It still could be, even If think the chances are really small.

Remember, a Brawl trailer from E3 2007 has shown us Zelda doing her entrance, next to Link doing his side taunt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM2n_BEYYD4 around 0:54. This is something we can't acheive in game.

Also, Zelda's move were shown several months later: http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/characters/zelda.html

Let's go back in 2007, not knowing her move. It could have been anything, like a new neutral B where she heal herself (why not?).

It wouldn't have been healing herself, its obvious that veterans keep moves that make up their main moveset. In Zelda's case, she was revealed in June 2007, and one of her first screenshots on the site had shown the end of her Din's Fire animation, as well as the start up midair.

It's 110% safe to say that if Zelda has Din's fire, she has Nayru's Love and Farore's Wind. And she did. The same point is here again this time. We've seen Farore's Wind and Din's Fire. So it's completely obvious that she has Nayru's Love and Transform. I'm sure the Transform animation was spiced up.

You have GOT to stop thinking the screenshots are of Din's Fire. In the entire Din's Fire animation, her wrist is bent, like she's "flinging" the spell. In the screenshots, her hand is completely UP and stretched out. It's NOT Din's Fire.

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh great, I'm glad to see that we most likely found out where her two mystery poses came from. I had a hunch that these poses were probably a part of her Assist Trophy summoning animation. Glad it got us somewhere now. ^_^

I'm pretty sure now that the Phantom is most likely an assist trophy and that Sheik is most likely safe.

 

[Katy Parry]

Oh great, I'm glad to see that we most likely found out where her two mystery poses came from. I had a hunch that these poses were probably a part of her Assist Trophy summoning animation. Glad it got us somewhere now. ^_^

I'm pretty sure now that the Phantom is most likely an assist trophy and that Sheik is most likely safe.

Yeah, that's indeed the case.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why would that be? The moves didn't got shown on her page, the Phantom is still there. Sheik pose or not, it's probably not her Transform animation. Phantom being Down B still makes as much sence as before.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

It wouldn't have been healing herself, its obvious that veterans keep moves that make up their main moveset. In Zelda's case, she was revealed in June 2007, and one of her first screenshots on the site had shown the end of her Din's Fire animation, as well as the start up midair.

It's 110% safe to say that if Zelda has Din's fire, she has Nayru's Love and Farore's Wind. And she did. The same point is here again this time. We've seen Farore's Wind and Din's Fire. So it's completely obvious that she has Nayru's Love and Transform. I'm sure the Transform animation was spiced up.

You have GOT to stop thinking the screenshots are of Din's Fire. In the entire Din's Fire animation, her wrist is bent, like she's "flinging" the spell. In the screenshots, her hand is completely UP and stretched out. It's NOT Din's Fire.

Nothing will stop me to think it is this (except death of course). The difference is that I say I think it is Din's Fire, I'm not saying it's not AT pose (and I'm not saying this as a fact).

The AT pose is a pretty good match, but it's not cinderella's little glass slipper, you got to admit there's is differences. Exactly like the din's fire pose. It's a good match, but it's not perfect. And I think you stated the AT pose can be revamped, so Din's fire can as well.

Also, I pointed out some arguments about why it can be the AT pose, so I'm not against it.

 

[Katy Parry]

Why would that be? The moves didn't got shown on her page, the Phantom is still there. Sheik pose or not, it's probably not her Transform animation. Phantom being Down B still makes as much sence as before.

Didn't got shown?

You mean.. The moves didn't "get" shown? Or "weren't shown off?"

and it's sense, not sence.

You still haven't acknowledged the fact you were wrong about Pit's Side B. Why are you dodging this? Your theories and opinions aren't as credible if you're going to be reporting false information.

And no, it doesn't make any sense. Numerous people have explained to you why it wouldn't make any sense for a veteran to receive a major, crippling change to their moveset.

Mario and Pit have received moveset changes, but they still either have the same move somewhere in there moveset, or the utility.

Mario has FLUDD, but Mario Tornado was still retained in his moveset.

Pit's original Side B is still roughly the same move as his Nair, as well as the fact the reflective properties are in his down B, and even his new Down B. Which still protects and reflects.

As I've stated before, by changing Zelda's Down B, it would be an IMMENSE change that wouldn't be replicated in other areas of the moveset, BECAUSE it affects another character, entirely: Sheik.

Furthermore, as they are both 2 characters, they are one and the same because it's Zelda. She fights with explosive magic, why she, the regal, dignified form of Zelda that exists here, fight with a huge mess of armor? It wouldn't make a lick of sense to provide such a DRASTIC change to a character like that!

Yes, Melee Zelda had moves from OoT. Yes, Brawl Zelda did because she's SUPER SMASH BROTHERS ZELDA. That would have been the most opportune time to replace Sheik because Sheik didn't appear in Twilight Princess, but it didn't matter. Zelda and Sheik are as one in the SMASH BROTHERS universe. Period.

 

[Morbi]

Oh great, I'm glad to see that we most likely found out where her two mystery poses came from. I had a hunch that these poses were probably a part of her Assist Trophy summoning animation. Glad it got us somewhere now. ^_^

I'm pretty sure now that the Phantom is most likely an assist trophy and that Sheik is most likely safe.

Why would he show off an Assist Trophy pose with an Assist Trophy, and the same "AT" pose without an "AT" pose in the next picture. It wouldn't make sense to showcase the same animation twice, especially as no other character had an "AT" pose illustrated. The character gallery would have been absent of any relevant moves. Every character has one picture pertaining to their move-set. Phantom is the only one that is possible. Phantom is also closely associated with the character Zelda, he isn't necessarily pertinent to the series itself. That would be replacing Tingle with a generic enemy (unless Zelda somehow has 3 ATs).

It is possible, but that would just be a poor usage of her gallery. It seems like he would have to intend to be deceitful... in a character gallery meant to showcase aspects of the revealed character. It is unprecedented really. Maybe this reveal will change that, but she is the only reveal to be so ambiguous and purposefully deceitful.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well, to summarize why I don't like the idea of the phantom being a move:

- Great step backward in her moveset: Yeah, technically it add a move. But it also remove a whole moveset. The phantom clearly not act like Nana or the Luma, so it should have it's own AI. And except protecting Zelda, it would clearly not help her landing her moves correctly.

-Blend of Toon and Twilight Princess art style: With Toon Link and Link, those two art style clearly are separated. Also, Toon Zelda was considered for Brawl. So why, suddenly, something that would belong to Toon Zelda goes to TP Zelda? Sheik, on the other hand, HAVE a Twilight Princess appearance. (At least, concept art).

-Sheik is relevant again: Remember how people kept saying Sheik would not return in Brawl due to OoT being old? Well, OoT isn't old anymore with OoT3D representation.

 

[Sharkarat]

-Blend of Toon and Twilight Princess art style: With Toon Link and Link, those two art style clearly are separated. Also, Toon Zelda was considered for Brawl. So why, suddenly, something that would belong to Toon Zelda goes to TP Zelda? Sheik, on the other hand, HAVE a Twilight Princess appearance. (At least, concept art).

Sakurai think Link & Toon Link should be clones, it's reasonable to assume that the same would go for Zelda & Toon Zelda. And you know what was considered for brawl as well? Toon Sheik, which would mean that he was planning to give something that belong to OoT/TP Zelda to Toon Zelda, what to say he couldn't do the reverse.
Toon Sheik could have been Codename for Tetra, but it propably would have been named Tetra then.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Ah, I do always forget Toon Sheik. Shouldn't have brought that in my Link, Toon Link argument, as we don't how it would have been (Sheik or Tetra, as you said).

 

[Curious Villager]

Why would he show off an Assist Trophy pose with an Assist Trophy, and the same "AT" pose without an "AT" pose in the next picture. It wouldn't make sense to showcase the same animation twice, especially as no other character had an "AT" pose illustrated. The character gallery would have been absent of any relevant moves. Every character has one picture pertaining to their move-set. Phantom is the only one that is possible. Phantom is also closely associated with the character Zelda, he isn't necessarily pertinent to the series itself. That would be replacing Tingle with a generic enemy (unless Zelda somehow has 3 ATs).

It is possible, but that would just be a poor usage of her gallery. It seems like he would have to intend to be deceitful... in a character gallery meant to showcase aspects of the revealed character. It is unprecedented really. Maybe this reveal will change that, but she is the only reveal to be so ambiguous and purposefully deceitful.

Do you mean to say that said character can't make the same animation or pose twice in their character page? In that case, Sakurai already did it with Dedede.

Spoiler

inb4 it doesn't count because it's zoomed.

Besides, it's not like there is some kind of rule that Sakurai must use different animations for said character in every pic or that he must make them perform a few attacks in their profiles. All he has to do is just show the characters off in a few in game screenshots and show how they have turned out. Wether they are fighting or doing other things. He can tell us more about them in the Daily screenshots and other updates like he has done many times before anyway, or he can just send in a number of screenshots to Nintendo for them to upload to their official Facebook page as he apparently did. :/

Also, there have been previous cases where Sakurai revealed a character but didn't show them perform any attacks during the Brawl dojo. Characters like these were Yoshi and Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon. We had to wait a bit before Sakurai showed a few pics of them performing any attacks and all. So it's not like revealing Zelda without having her attacking is something completely new or unheard of.

Not to mention it's not like there can only be one or two Zelda assist trophies anyway. Mario had quite a few in Brawl so it's not like it's something impossible for the Zelda franchise to gain a few more too in the new games.

Unless I misunderstood what you meant I guess... :/

 

[JamesDNaux]

Diddy is simply in denial, there is no doubt that the Phantom pose is the same as her assist release pose. I won't believe **** he says until he goes on Brawl and tries it himself, you can clearly see her arm bend exactly as it does in the Phantom picture, I just wish I could have got the screenshot myself. And Morbid, if you looked at the two screenshots I posted, you can clearly see that the assist has more than enough time to jump out of frame, in the zoomed out shot you can see Gray Fox clearly above Zelda's head as she's doing the pose. I don't care if Diddy continues to deny hard facts and evidence, I am content knowing the truth myself.