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Q&A Sheik Q's&A's/Videos/Gen Discussion

Demna

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Any tips regarding the Charizard and Ivysaur Matchup? Any tips regarding Sheik's recovery in general?
 

Demna

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What part of her recovery don't you get? Remember she has a wall jump / wall cling also.
The part where I'm using UpB directly above the ledge, most of the time I miss the ledge and SD. How do wall cling/wall jump? And on what stages can you do it?
 

shadow0x0cloud

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Well I time the up-b. So I'd use up-b, hold the stick at whatever angle i want to go, and right before sheik is about to reappear i let go. This lets you move in a direction and snap to the ledge immediately after.

To wall jump your body must be rubbing a wall. Then you tap away from the wall, your character will jump. Wall clinging is the exact same except you hold towards the wall. It can be done on almost every stage and can help you with gimps and recovery
 

Juushichi

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K

1. Don't jump as much. Sheik bodies people on the ground and is very fluid on the ground. Jumping in as your initial approach is probably wrong 99% of the time. People want to SH Fair or Nair a lot, I say nay.

2. Get used to her grab mixups. Dthrow is solid, but you have Bthrow as a mixup in PM that wasn't there in Melee. Less GG Melee Dthrow, but more potential for hard reads and trickiness. Also, pick up boost grabbing as it's useful to catch certain characters if they DI away from Dthrow. In general her boost grab is really damn good, that just happens to be the most prominent example I could think of for using it.

3. Brawl stuff tends to get transferred over to PM. Brawl's Pivot grab, RAR, DACUS, Glide Toss (wasn't specific to Brawl IIRC, but is 1000x more prominent there), backward edge snapping for more recoveries, etc. Oh yeah, she can crawl in PM due to Brawl. It's kind of good/lame lol

4. You need to be aware of what options might backfire on you. At low %'s, it can be hard to tilt or smack people due to Crouch Cancel. If you can probably land a grab instead of a tilt early on, chances are you should go for it. There are exceptions, like if the opponent is in the air or did not CC, but overall smarter opponents tend to not give her that luxury very often. The cool thing about Sheik is that you usually don't have to force things on the opponent. She's pretty mobile on the ground and decently versatile, you can tend to wait and react based on what your opponent is doing. Like when you play Sheik, the gameplan doesn't have to be "Ok I need to get close and tilt/grab him". You can sit back and charge needles or try to deal with the other person's approach, or don't commit to an option while getting closer. She's pretty good at not "having" to do stuff in neutral.


There you go. Onwards to the glory of playing Sheik!
DMG and root have definitely imparted necessary knowledge to you on this note, but I'll add something to DMG's 3rd point, because it is a Brawl technique (which you probably know).

Get very familiar, very very familiar with B-Reversed needles, especially on the ground. It's a good retreating dash/run option, an ok falling option along with all of the general usages that needles are wont to have.
 

Plum

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Reverse needles are a staple of Melee Sheik as well, as are reverse specials in general. Brawl does add wavebouncing to certain specials though.
 

Jolteon

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By "B-reversing", he is referring to "wavebouncing".

(Seriously, stop using that term. :x)
 

Plum

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Well I looked it up out of curiosity from the Brawl terminology thread...
Turnaround-B [Universal] - The turnaround of neutral special is done by tapping the opposite direction with the control stick and doing neutral special within 20 frames after the tap. Other special turnarounds are done by pressing in the opposite direction and the special's direction.
B-Reverse (Reversal-B) [Universal] - The turnaround in the air that reverses your momentum. It is performed by pressing in the opposite direction you are facing AFTER you perform the special.
Wavebounce (Recoil-Special) [Universal] - The reversal of momentum that occurs when you combine a Turnaround-B and B-Reverse. You will face the same direction that you did before.

I confused B-Reverse with Turnaround-B, but B-Reverse is distinct from Wavebounce (that's kind of a mess)
 

DMG

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I personally think wavebouncing is a stupid term. I wish it was B-Turn (where you turn before doing the move) and B-Reverse (where you turn after initiating the move)

Wavebounce is a term that came about from Brawl Lucas and everyone wanted to add "wave" to their tech. Thank god DACUS wasn't "Waveslide".

B-turn = Turn before the B move. Keeps your momentum, basically moving forward and looking back

B-reverse = Turn after the B move. Gives you new momentum/reverses momentum

SPREAD THE WORD

I would also accept wrestling terminology. B-Suplex is looking back with your same momentum, B-Powerbomb is looking back after the move is used and gives new momentum.
 

Plum

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Yeah, a combination of two AT's should not have its own unique name, and the whole "let's call it wave-something" is silly.
 

Arcalyth

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If you mean a critique of you vs Robjoe:

You and I are running into the same issues vs his Charizard. He lives way too long and punishes really hard. Kill him sooner and be a little more mobile. You roll a lot and have a tendency to just kinda run in. You got shieldgrabbed for nair on shield a lot too. Other than that it was all pretty solid play. **** Charizard :)
 

Juushichi

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critique of?
|
v

@Root, yeah: I felt like the rolling was pretty excessive when it came to Zard here. There was a sweetspot of range that I didn't want to be at considering how long zard's normals and stuff are. Run up/Walk Up+Shield is something that I think I would favor more, but given Zard's grab game I guess I was less hesitant to do it. I tried to learn from getting CC'd early in the set though.

Zard can just CC a lot of things from Sheik and DD vs large dragon normals is not exactly something that seems fruitful. I'll keep at it though.
 

Arcalyth

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I dunno if DD vs Zard's normals is universally good (I don't see why it wouldn't be when you combine it with boost grab which is godlike) but it works vs Robjoe specifically because he gets intimidated really easily if you start getting momentum. If he doesn't know when you're gonna go for the grab he starts playing really scared and overcommits to stuff.

http://www.twitch.tv/arcalyth/b/482789563
take a look at 16:35 and 18:21, if that's helpful at all
 

Juushichi

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Yeah, I've played Robjoe in 3 sets: Outrage II (2-0 GnW), Nerd Rage (0-1 GnW, 2-0 Sheik), Michigan Ranbats 7 (2-1 Sheik [one of the games was not recorded for some reason]). He gets scared and stuck over committing, but to be fair once you kinda "crack" Zard open, his defenses are thankfully not that good. I've seen a lot of knowledge growth and adaption from Robjoe over the tournaments I've seen him.

Personally, I only felt like I made him crack at the end of the third game (PS2) and got momentum on the regrabs. His mental fortitude has gotten a lot better, hopefully with the overall growth of West MI as a whole. But that's neither here nor there. Thank you very much for the suggestions, I'll be more mindful of DD as a stronger tool as I don't think I'm quite used to her initial dash and saw times in the set where sharper technical play would have paid off.

Do you (or anyone else) have any suggestions on a short warmup regiment or training regiment for Sheik movement? I've been trying to figure out something.
 

Arcalyth

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trots first
then trot into DD
then DD into WD into trot, vary and repeat
figure 8s on platforms (jump, waveland, fall, waveland)
RAR wavedash to edge > shino stall for a bit > waveland onto stage backward (to regrab stage) > shino stall > waveland onto stage into trot...
fair > waveland
needle charge > WDOOS
needle charge > vanish to ledge > ledge stuff

pretty much covers everything
 

DMG

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Ok seen the video:

You seemed a bit sticky near the edge and in your shield. Rolling in was the only true bad habit I saw, maybe some options at the edge/getting onstage from the edge weren't great but that's a lot more subjective anyways. Once you got a grab or a decent tilt off, everything fell into place. I would work on being trickier with the edge and replacing some of that shielding/rolling with WD or Dash back


As for DD, you don't need much of it for repositioning closer to Zard. Vs Charizard you're probably only gonna use it to Dash/bait out of range and come back in with a boost grab: he has too many options with range and speed for you to use it closer or for you to use the DD as a tool to get inside first. If you need to get closer, you can just walk towards him and fire needles easier (along with tilting easier and still having the same options out of DD) instead of trying to throw ground needles or tilt quickly out of DD.
 

Demna

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Hey guys, I have a major problem with my recovery. Let's say I use my second jump offstage and I'm faced away from the ledge. If I Up-B, I won't be able to grab the ledge because I'm not facing the ledge. Any tips please?
 

DMG

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DMG#931
wat

lemme go check this because that sounds wrong sorta

Edit: yeah just checked, you are probably mistiming it then.

1. If you reach near the apex of your Upb, BEFORE you vanish and move, it doesn't matter which way you face the edge. It can grab the edge everytime.

2. If you vanish, poof upwards, and are facing backwards, you can grab the edge IF you reappear pretty close to the edge. Go to training mode and practice barely making it with Upb. This will work backwards or forwards, and you can thank Brawl for this


If you really aren't sure or confident in it, you could probably try angling your Upb so that it goes *mostly* upwards and turns you around. This shouldn't be a big issue for you and hope it gets resolved!
 

Demna

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Is reverse needle cancel considered a solution to my problem? Using it to face the edge and UpB safely.
 

DMG

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No. This is only a problem if you can't sweetspot well before or after the poof. You can grab the edge with Sheik's Upb facing both ways: you can't grab it backwards normally or if you "poof" higher above the edge and start free falling.

If you can get Sheik to the edge with Upb, one way or the other, she should grab it.
 

Demna

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1. If you reach near the apex of your Upb, BEFORE you vanish and move, it doesn't matter which way you face the edge. It can grab the edge everytime.
What do you mean by "near the apex"? Can you please explain this in depth?
 

Plum

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Basically, you know how you have that "hop" when you Up B before you actually vanish? When you hit the highest point of that "hop" you will grab the ledge assuming you are in range to do so. You can grab the ledge whether or not you are facing it at this time.
Also, after the vanish you can grab the ledge backwards but only if you are reappearing within range to grab the ledge. If you reappear above the ledge and begin to freefall you can no longer grab the ledge backwards.

Hopefully that sums up what DMG was saying for ya.
 

DMG

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Ty Plum, I was sorta bad at explaining it.
 

Demna

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just a general question guys, is SDI in PM and Melee different than the SDI in Brawl?
 

Heero Yuy

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Am now a Sheik main due to the fact I'm slowly losing faith in my original main, Zelda. I'm still going to use both, but from here on out I'm going to focus on Sheik.

So, hi all. :)
 

OkamiBW

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So, this thread needs some love.

As a Sheik main in Melee, I've been testing things. I used to play very defensively going as far as attempting to time out Peach and Samus and what not. I continuously was placing 7th or 9th or so. Last Melee tournament, I tried using my tech skill to be aggro rather than to be defensive and it netted me a win against the 3rd best player in SoCal and 4th place in a 69 person tournament.

What do you guys think about Sheik in P:M? Should she be played to wall or can she be played effectively up in your opponent's face? Personally I'm going to test this at APEX and see how well it works.
 

shadow0x0cloud

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Personally, I find myself playing a defensive sheik using platforms and such to keep my opponent away with needles. I only really go in when I find a grab opportunity.
 

DMG

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I'm looking to massively expand my gameplay with her. I rarely took advantage of shield drop on platforms, and it looks sick with her. Standard Sheik stuff is pretty ez, so you just gotta go for the style and greatness.
 

OkamiBW

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I feel like short hop pressure is really good. SH F-air + SH empty hop is awesome. SH B-air is a great wall technique. Walking is absolutely amazing.

Shield dropping in P:M feels wonky compared to Melee. I'm 95% consistent in Melee to the right. In P:M it's only about 50% or so. :/
 
D

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What do you guys think about Sheik in P:M? Should she be played to wall or can she be played effectively up in your opponent's face? Personally I'm going to test this at APEX and see how well it works.
Really, you have to play to the game. In PM it pays to be aggressive even more than in melee. I think melee sheik is best played defensively but PM sheik is all about closing out space and hunting people down.
 

OkamiBW

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I didn't quite mean it to come across as though I haven't been playing, if that's what it seemed like (quite the contrary...there are about 1-2 tournaments every 2 weeks in SoCal).

I more meant to stir discussion, which this thread was seriously lacking.

That being said...I think that I could see it being better in MUs where she can effectively 50-50 CG her opponent, such as Lucas/MK, but would be less effective against characters like Kirby, who goes way too high to do anything with aside from a single aerial.

Against Aero's Kirby, I found CC F-tilt and SH N-air spacing to be quite effective to beat most of his approaches.
 
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