-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Q&A Sheik Q's&A's/Videos/Gen Discussion
- Thread starter OkamiBW
- Start date
shadow0x0cloud
Smash Apprentice
What part of her recovery don't you get? Remember she has a wall jump / wall cling also.
The part where I'm using UpB directly above the ledge, most of the time I miss the ledge and SD. How do wall cling/wall jump? And on what stages can you do it?
shadow0x0cloud
Smash Apprentice
Well I time the up-b. So I'd use up-b, hold the stick at whatever angle i want to go, and right before sheik is about to reappear i let go. This lets you move in a direction and snap to the ledge immediately after.
To wall jump your body must be rubbing a wall. Then you tap away from the wall, your character will jump. Wall clinging is the exact same except you hold towards the wall. It can be done on almost every stage and can help you with gimps and recovery
To wall jump your body must be rubbing a wall. Then you tap away from the wall, your character will jump. Wall clinging is the exact same except you hold towards the wall. It can be done on almost every stage and can help you with gimps and recovery
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
DMG and root have definitely imparted necessary knowledge to you on this note, but I'll add something to DMG's 3rd point, because it is a Brawl technique (which you probably know).
Get very familiar, very very familiar with B-Reversed needles, especially on the ground. It's a good retreating dash/run option, an ok falling option along with all of the general usages that needles are wont to have.
Reverse needles are a staple of Melee Sheik as well, as are reverse specials in general. Brawl does add wavebouncing to certain specials though.
Well I looked it up out of curiosity from the Brawl terminology thread...
I confused B-Reverse with Turnaround-B, but B-Reverse is distinct from Wavebounce (that's kind of a mess)
Turnaround-B [Universal] - The turnaround of neutral special is done by tapping the opposite direction with the control stick and doing neutral special within 20 frames after the tap. Other special turnarounds are done by pressing in the opposite direction and the special's direction.
B-Reverse (Reversal-B) [Universal] - The turnaround in the air that reverses your momentum. It is performed by pressing in the opposite direction you are facing AFTER you perform the special.
Wavebounce (Recoil-Special) [Universal] - The reversal of momentum that occurs when you combine a Turnaround-B and B-Reverse. You will face the same direction that you did before.
B-Reverse (Reversal-B) [Universal] - The turnaround in the air that reverses your momentum. It is performed by pressing in the opposite direction you are facing AFTER you perform the special.
Wavebounce (Recoil-Special) [Universal] - The reversal of momentum that occurs when you combine a Turnaround-B and B-Reverse. You will face the same direction that you did before.
I confused B-Reverse with Turnaround-B, but B-Reverse is distinct from Wavebounce (that's kind of a mess)
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
I personally think wavebouncing is a stupid term. I wish it was B-Turn (where you turn before doing the move) and B-Reverse (where you turn after initiating the move)
Wavebounce is a term that came about from Brawl Lucas and everyone wanted to add "wave" to their tech. Thank god DACUS wasn't "Waveslide".
B-turn = Turn before the B move. Keeps your momentum, basically moving forward and looking back
B-reverse = Turn after the B move. Gives you new momentum/reverses momentum
SPREAD THE WORD
I would also accept wrestling terminology. B-Suplex is looking back with your same momentum, B-Powerbomb is looking back after the move is used and gives new momentum.
Wavebounce is a term that came about from Brawl Lucas and everyone wanted to add "wave" to their tech. Thank god DACUS wasn't "Waveslide".
B-turn = Turn before the B move. Keeps your momentum, basically moving forward and looking back
B-reverse = Turn after the B move. Gives you new momentum/reverses momentum
SPREAD THE WORD
I would also accept wrestling terminology. B-Suplex is looking back with your same momentum, B-Powerbomb is looking back after the move is used and gives new momentum.
I meant wavebouncing. >_> I agree with DMG, I think it's a dumb term.
Yeah, a combination of two AT's should not have its own unique name, and the whole "let's call it wave-something" is silly.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
anyone with a critique?
If you mean a critique of you vs Robjoe:
You and I are running into the same issues vs his Charizard. He lives way too long and punishes really hard. Kill him sooner and be a little more mobile. You roll a lot and have a tendency to just kinda run in. You got shieldgrabbed for nair on shield a lot too. Other than that it was all pretty solid play. **** Charizard
You and I are running into the same issues vs his Charizard. He lives way too long and punishes really hard. Kill him sooner and be a little more mobile. You roll a lot and have a tendency to just kinda run in. You got shieldgrabbed for nair on shield a lot too. Other than that it was all pretty solid play. **** Charizard
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
|
v
@Root, yeah: I felt like the rolling was pretty excessive when it came to Zard here. There was a sweetspot of range that I didn't want to be at considering how long zard's normals and stuff are. Run up/Walk Up+Shield is something that I think I would favor more, but given Zard's grab game I guess I was less hesitant to do it. I tried to learn from getting CC'd early in the set though.
Zard can just CC a lot of things from Sheik and DD vs large dragon normals is not exactly something that seems fruitful. I'll keep at it though.
I dunno if DD vs Zard's normals is universally good (I don't see why it wouldn't be when you combine it with boost grab which is godlike) but it works vs Robjoe specifically because he gets intimidated really easily if you start getting momentum. If he doesn't know when you're gonna go for the grab he starts playing really scared and overcommits to stuff.
http://www.twitch.tv/arcalyth/b/482789563
take a look at 16:35 and 18:21, if that's helpful at all
http://www.twitch.tv/arcalyth/b/482789563
take a look at 16:35 and 18:21, if that's helpful at all
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Yeah, I've played Robjoe in 3 sets: Outrage II (2-0 GnW), Nerd Rage (0-1 GnW, 2-0 Sheik), Michigan Ranbats 7 (2-1 Sheik [one of the games was not recorded for some reason]). He gets scared and stuck over committing, but to be fair once you kinda "crack" Zard open, his defenses are thankfully not that good. I've seen a lot of knowledge growth and adaption from Robjoe over the tournaments I've seen him.
Personally, I only felt like I made him crack at the end of the third game (PS2) and got momentum on the regrabs. His mental fortitude has gotten a lot better, hopefully with the overall growth of West MI as a whole. But that's neither here nor there. Thank you very much for the suggestions, I'll be more mindful of DD as a stronger tool as I don't think I'm quite used to her initial dash and saw times in the set where sharper technical play would have paid off.
Do you (or anyone else) have any suggestions on a short warmup regiment or training regiment for Sheik movement? I've been trying to figure out something.
Personally, I only felt like I made him crack at the end of the third game (PS2) and got momentum on the regrabs. His mental fortitude has gotten a lot better, hopefully with the overall growth of West MI as a whole. But that's neither here nor there. Thank you very much for the suggestions, I'll be more mindful of DD as a stronger tool as I don't think I'm quite used to her initial dash and saw times in the set where sharper technical play would have paid off.
Do you (or anyone else) have any suggestions on a short warmup regiment or training regiment for Sheik movement? I've been trying to figure out something.
trots first
then trot into DD
then DD into WD into trot, vary and repeat
figure 8s on platforms (jump, waveland, fall, waveland)
RAR wavedash to edge > shino stall for a bit > waveland onto stage backward (to regrab stage) > shino stall > waveland onto stage into trot...
fair > waveland
needle charge > WDOOS
needle charge > vanish to ledge > ledge stuff
pretty much covers everything
then trot into DD
then DD into WD into trot, vary and repeat
figure 8s on platforms (jump, waveland, fall, waveland)
RAR wavedash to edge > shino stall for a bit > waveland onto stage backward (to regrab stage) > shino stall > waveland onto stage into trot...
fair > waveland
needle charge > WDOOS
needle charge > vanish to ledge > ledge stuff
pretty much covers everything
Ok seen the video:
You seemed a bit sticky near the edge and in your shield. Rolling in was the only true bad habit I saw, maybe some options at the edge/getting onstage from the edge weren't great but that's a lot more subjective anyways. Once you got a grab or a decent tilt off, everything fell into place. I would work on being trickier with the edge and replacing some of that shielding/rolling with WD or Dash back
As for DD, you don't need much of it for repositioning closer to Zard. Vs Charizard you're probably only gonna use it to Dash/bait out of range and come back in with a boost grab: he has too many options with range and speed for you to use it closer or for you to use the DD as a tool to get inside first. If you need to get closer, you can just walk towards him and fire needles easier (along with tilting easier and still having the same options out of DD) instead of trying to throw ground needles or tilt quickly out of DD.
You seemed a bit sticky near the edge and in your shield. Rolling in was the only true bad habit I saw, maybe some options at the edge/getting onstage from the edge weren't great but that's a lot more subjective anyways. Once you got a grab or a decent tilt off, everything fell into place. I would work on being trickier with the edge and replacing some of that shielding/rolling with WD or Dash back
As for DD, you don't need much of it for repositioning closer to Zard. Vs Charizard you're probably only gonna use it to Dash/bait out of range and come back in with a boost grab: he has too many options with range and speed for you to use it closer or for you to use the DD as a tool to get inside first. If you need to get closer, you can just walk towards him and fire needles easier (along with tilting easier and still having the same options out of DD) instead of trying to throw ground needles or tilt quickly out of DD.
Hey guys, I have a major problem with my recovery. Let's say I use my second jump offstage and I'm faced away from the ledge. If I Up-B, I won't be able to grab the ledge because I'm not facing the ledge. Any tips please?
wat
lemme go check this because that sounds wrong sorta
Edit: yeah just checked, you are probably mistiming it then.
1. If you reach near the apex of your Upb, BEFORE you vanish and move, it doesn't matter which way you face the edge. It can grab the edge everytime.
2. If you vanish, poof upwards, and are facing backwards, you can grab the edge IF you reappear pretty close to the edge. Go to training mode and practice barely making it with Upb. This will work backwards or forwards, and you can thank Brawl for this
If you really aren't sure or confident in it, you could probably try angling your Upb so that it goes *mostly* upwards and turns you around. This shouldn't be a big issue for you and hope it gets resolved!
lemme go check this because that sounds wrong sorta
Edit: yeah just checked, you are probably mistiming it then.
1. If you reach near the apex of your Upb, BEFORE you vanish and move, it doesn't matter which way you face the edge. It can grab the edge everytime.
2. If you vanish, poof upwards, and are facing backwards, you can grab the edge IF you reappear pretty close to the edge. Go to training mode and practice barely making it with Upb. This will work backwards or forwards, and you can thank Brawl for this
If you really aren't sure or confident in it, you could probably try angling your Upb so that it goes *mostly* upwards and turns you around. This shouldn't be a big issue for you and hope it gets resolved!
No. This is only a problem if you can't sweetspot well before or after the poof. You can grab the edge with Sheik's Upb facing both ways: you can't grab it backwards normally or if you "poof" higher above the edge and start free falling.
If you can get Sheik to the edge with Upb, one way or the other, she should grab it.
If you can get Sheik to the edge with Upb, one way or the other, she should grab it.
Basically, you know how you have that "hop" when you Up B before you actually vanish? When you hit the highest point of that "hop" you will grab the ledge assuming you are in range to do so. You can grab the ledge whether or not you are facing it at this time.
Also, after the vanish you can grab the ledge backwards but only if you are reappearing within range to grab the ledge. If you reappear above the ledge and begin to freefall you can no longer grab the ledge backwards.
Hopefully that sums up what DMG was saying for ya.
Also, after the vanish you can grab the ledge backwards but only if you are reappearing within range to grab the ledge. If you reappear above the ledge and begin to freefall you can no longer grab the ledge backwards.
Hopefully that sums up what DMG was saying for ya.
ViewtifulHoe242
Smash Journeyman
its dead here
Heero Yuy
#sweg
Am now a Sheik main due to the fact I'm slowly losing faith in my original main, Zelda. I'm still going to use both, but from here on out I'm going to focus on Sheik.
So, hi all.
So, hi all.
OkamiBW
Smash Champion
So, this thread needs some love.
As a Sheik main in Melee, I've been testing things. I used to play very defensively going as far as attempting to time out Peach and Samus and what not. I continuously was placing 7th or 9th or so. Last Melee tournament, I tried using my tech skill to be aggro rather than to be defensive and it netted me a win against the 3rd best player in SoCal and 4th place in a 69 person tournament.
What do you guys think about Sheik in P:M? Should she be played to wall or can she be played effectively up in your opponent's face? Personally I'm going to test this at APEX and see how well it works.
As a Sheik main in Melee, I've been testing things. I used to play very defensively going as far as attempting to time out Peach and Samus and what not. I continuously was placing 7th or 9th or so. Last Melee tournament, I tried using my tech skill to be aggro rather than to be defensive and it netted me a win against the 3rd best player in SoCal and 4th place in a 69 person tournament.
What do you guys think about Sheik in P:M? Should she be played to wall or can she be played effectively up in your opponent's face? Personally I'm going to test this at APEX and see how well it works.
shadow0x0cloud
Smash Apprentice
Personally, I find myself playing a defensive sheik using platforms and such to keep my opponent away with needles. I only really go in when I find a grab opportunity.
I'm looking to massively expand my gameplay with her. I rarely took advantage of shield drop on platforms, and it looks sick with her. Standard Sheik stuff is pretty ez, so you just gotta go for the style and greatness.
OkamiBW
Smash Champion
I feel like short hop pressure is really good. SH F-air + SH empty hop is awesome. SH B-air is a great wall technique. Walking is absolutely amazing.
Shield dropping in P:M feels wonky compared to Melee. I'm 95% consistent in Melee to the right. In P:M it's only about 50% or so. :/
Shield dropping in P:M feels wonky compared to Melee. I'm 95% consistent in Melee to the right. In P:M it's only about 50% or so. :/
SpiderMad
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 4,968
Wonder if there's a way to just make it easier
D
Deleted member
Guest
Really, you have to play to the game. In PM it pays to be aggressive even more than in melee. I think melee sheik is best played defensively but PM sheik is all about closing out space and hunting people down.
OkamiBW
Smash Champion
I didn't quite mean it to come across as though I haven't been playing, if that's what it seemed like (quite the contrary...there are about 1-2 tournaments every 2 weeks in SoCal).
I more meant to stir discussion, which this thread was seriously lacking.
That being said...I think that I could see it being better in MUs where she can effectively 50-50 CG her opponent, such as Lucas/MK, but would be less effective against characters like Kirby, who goes way too high to do anything with aside from a single aerial.
Against Aero's Kirby, I found CC F-tilt and SH N-air spacing to be quite effective to beat most of his approaches.
I more meant to stir discussion, which this thread was seriously lacking.
That being said...I think that I could see it being better in MUs where she can effectively 50-50 CG her opponent, such as Lucas/MK, but would be less effective against characters like Kirby, who goes way too high to do anything with aside from a single aerial.
Against Aero's Kirby, I found CC F-tilt and SH N-air spacing to be quite effective to beat most of his approaches.