Q&A Sheik Q's&A's/Videos/Gen Discussion

Arctic

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
27
Also i always come to the situation where i suicide because I am facing away from the ledge after upb, why is this and how can i fix it?
 

Ogopogo

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
568
Location
Middle TN
3DS FC
3797-6544-0935
So, wait a sec. To reverse Vanish, you reverse when you are reappearing, not when you're flipping up and about to teleport?
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
You don't turn the other direction, but Sheik can grab the ledge facing backwards out of her reappearance for a very brief time (I think, I feel like I've done it a lot before).
 

Ogopogo

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
568
Location
Middle TN
3DS FC
3797-6544-0935
The falling animation that comes before the freefall animation. Pretty much everyone can grab the ledge at the peak of their up b, no matter the direction. But I'd like to know how to actually reverse it.
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
You... you just rotate the stick, to face the other way... it's easy. Just go onto FD in training, jump up, use Vanish, and rotate the stick up and to the right if you're facing left when you jump, and up and to the left if you're racing right.
 

shairn

Your favorite anime is bad.
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
2,595
Location
Laval, QC
3DS FC
4742-6323-2961
Turns out you can perform the chain jacket and get a chain with no hit boxes at all.

I have no idea how it happened though.
 

Rickety

Peace and Love
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
1,610
Location
San Diego Love! ♥
Well, after resisting the urge for almost exactly three months,
I finally broke down and started playing Sheik in
Project M.

...

And I love it! Who was I kidding?
I could never turn my back on my beloved Melee character. <3
 

Umbreon

Moonlight Pokémon
Joined
Nov 17, 2002
Messages
15,516
Well, after resisting the urge for almost exactly three months,
I finally broke down and started playing Sheik in
Project M.
...

And I love it! Who was I kidding?
I could never turn my back on my beloved Melee character. <3
you still exist? jesus
 
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
600
Location
USA, CT
Turns out you can perform the chain jacket and get a chain with no hit boxes at all.

I have no idea how it happened though.
It's possible you jacketed a wind hitbox, such as the one from reappearing with vanish. I've seen it done in brawl where the windbox is much stronger, though to be honest I'm not even sure there is one in PM. It's possible it's just extremely weak and hard to notice, which would explain a seemingly hitboxless chain jacket.

EDIT: Yep, here it is in brawl. http://youtu.be/JiQi0ux8imk?t=1m11s
 
Last edited:

Juushichi

sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Premium
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
5,518
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I am a bit of an old-school (v1, lol) Zelda, so I know. Back in 2.1-2.5, I played a lot with Zhime online constantly. I don't believe that Zelda should approach much with much of anything, but nair is pretty decent for that purpose. Up-B OoS or anywhere close to her opponent is not very good imo, whereas you have a frame 4 toe that you can use at any point.

Nair as an anti-air is not bad and currently nB still has invincibility, so you are are right on that note. Thanks for the advice!
 
Last edited:

Arcalyth

GLS | root
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
650
Location
West MI
Yo, is Ledge-canceled Vanish in P:M? I can't seem to get it. I know Shino stalling is in P:M.
Yes. I find it harder than in Melee though (personally, I have no facts to back up whether it should or should not be harder)

But it is definitely possible. Fun PM thing is that you can Vanish directly from ground to the ledge which is especially nice out of shield :)
 

Umbreon

Moonlight Pokémon
Joined
Nov 17, 2002
Messages
15,516
sheik link is probably fine as long as you avoid good fox players.

i'm having an issue lately where i'm starting to find that sheik has problem MUs against opponents that have 2 of the 3 following attributes:
1. a good dashdance
2. better normals than sheik
3. recoveries that are hard to gimp

so for instance, rob is easily gimped, but he has a surprisingly good neutral game with his dashdance and a lot of his moves will straight up beat sheik's in a trade, so that match is troublesome. or kirby has better moves than sheik basically outright and almost never gets gimped, so i find myself having to constantly outplay kirby in the neutral game to make up for the deficit in the punishment game.

for the first two it's been an exercise to practicing placing neutral game strategies better, but i haven't really found a solution to the last one. again, particularly with kirby. does anyone have any suggestions for improving the punishment game when the usual "put them to the edge and then sheik them" strategy doesn't work?
 

foxygrandpa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
414
Location
Long Island
sheik link is probably fine as long as you avoid good fox players.

i'm having an issue lately where i'm starting to find that sheik has problem MUs against opponents that have 2 of the 3 following attributes:
1. a good dashdance
2. better normals than sheik
3. recoveries that are hard to gimp

so for instance, rob is easily gimped, but he has a surprisingly good neutral game with his dashdance and a lot of his moves will straight up beat sheik's in a trade, so that match is troublesome. or kirby has better moves than sheik basically outright and almost never gets gimped, so i find myself having to constantly outplay kirby in the neutral game to make up for the deficit in the punishment game.

for the first two it's been an exercise to practicing placing neutral game strategies better, but i haven't really found a solution to the last one. again, particularly with kirby. does anyone have any suggestions for improving the punishment game when the usual "put them to the edge and then sheik them" strategy doesn't work?
From what I've found its pretty lucrative to just keep spacing with back airs. If you've played the jiggs matchup in melee, its pretty much the same thing. Back air is really the only viable option against characters with difficult recoveries. Rack up damage until you can kill with an assured air attack.
If you can somehow land a grab at mid-high percents on characters like kirby, and trick them into a back throw setup, up smash will kill at relatively low percents. The new grab system is helpful in that sense. However, when theyre offstage you can't really do much except needle them at long distance and try to keep them offstage when they get towards the edge. Its pretty frustrating. I think sheik would have to play more of a runaway camp game rather than an attrition based strategy like she's used to, which is difficult, but doable.

So overall, rack up damage with needle camping and spaced back airs.

Hope I helped.
 

keninblack

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
63
Location
Summit, NJ
So I went to a local today and wanted to use Wolf as my main, realized very quickly it wasn't working so I just went to Sheik since shes my Melee main.

No idea why I thought it was a good idea to learn a spacie, did sooo much better with the bae.

Any advice on a Melee Sheik going into P:M Sheik?
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
Any advice on a Melee Sheik going into P:M Sheik?
Don't rely only on d-throw like you would in Melee, instead condition your opponent into making a certain DI choice and mix up your b-throws and d-throws. Everything else from Melee applies, but there are a lot more even/unfavorable matchups for Sheik in PM than there were in Melee.

Biggest advice I could give is to not play Melee Sheik like you're in Melee. One of Sheik's huge strengths in Melee was that her incredible speed and tech chasing game beat out the weaker neutral games of those below her, and her edgeguarding abilities solidified her advantage. In PM, more characters can deal with more of her options on-stage, and powerful recovery options may require you to work harder for ledgeguarding kills.
 

foxygrandpa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
414
Location
Long Island
@ Umbreon Umbreon and foxygrampa I like using upstuff and dair when I can't just sumo people to the edge
easily crouch cancellable against jiggs at low percent though. could lead straight into a rest. It would probably work well on kirby and other floaties, since his crouch options arent as good though.
Back air is probably the safer option, but I imagine up air working at higher percents.

Is anyone sure about how snake chaingrabs sheik? His up throw is literally the best grab I've seen in any smash game, better than melee sheik's. What percents can I DI out and where should I try to DI out?
I've heard that the matchup is in sheik's favor, but snake can crouch cancel to insane percents and chain grab the hell out of me. I dont know how to deal with that other than just keeping him offstage.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
1,753
Location
Bonn, Germany
There isn't really a good DI angle for Sheik, but I assume you would get out the fastest with DI in, just combined out of knowledge about characters with similar properties chaingrabwise.
Snake has a bad time in neutral game because your needles should beat most of his options and your grab can also lead to huge benefits so avoiding both is hard for Snake. Don't rely too much on "weak" moves in neutral against Snake because of his CCing, for example classical up- and f-tilt combos are highly debatable in this matchup. Don't be afraid to just use the needles and otherwise grab /fair make it as hard as possible for him to get anything going.
 

foxygrandpa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
414
Location
Long Island
There isn't really a good DI angle for Sheik, but I assume you would get out the fastest with DI in, just combined out of knowledge about characters with similar properties chaingrabwise.
Snake has a bad time in neutral game because your needles should beat most of his options and your grab can also lead to huge benefits so avoiding both is hard for Snake. Don't rely too much on "weak" moves in neutral against Snake because of his CCing, for example classical up- and f-tilt combos are highly debatable in this matchup. Don't be afraid to just use the needles and otherwise grab /fair make it as hard as possible for him to get anything going.
He can duck sheik's grabs I believe, and I can't duck his back. Its pretty frustrating, the only thing I can figure out to do against snake's crouch is downsmash or needle.
Thanks for the help though, appreciate it.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
1,753
Location
Bonn, Germany
If you see he crouches, you can still go for other options (for example d-smash). He won't always crouch. I see that it involves reads but I think it would be the bigger problem if you need no reads to win the matchup :D Just be aware that he hasn't got that much when crouching. He has d-tilt and the forward angled d-tilt, both good moves but if you keep the spacing you can just wait until he stops to crouch or charge needles if you are even more away.
 

Arcalyth

GLS | root
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
650
Location
West MI
easily crouch cancellable against jiggs at low percent though. could lead straight into a rest. It would probably work well on kirby and other floaties, since his crouch options arent as good though.
Back air is probably the safer option, but I imagine up air working at higher percents.
my post was meant as a solution to characters that are hard to gimp/kill horizontally. landing with dair isn't generally a good idea. it's wonderful in the air, however, where crouch cancelling is irrelevant...

I've heard that the matchup is in sheik's favor, but snake can crouch cancel to insane percents and chain grab the hell out of me. I dont know how to deal with that other than just keeping him offstage.
I like throwing snake into his own mines, which are also quite easy to disarm with needles. you can also chaingrab him at mid percents which makes grabs vs snake one of her most effective tactics imo. I haven't fought a good snake in 3.0, so I don't know how much the tranq affects the matchup (significantly, I'd assume, but not matchup-breaking by any means)
and then when you're done comboing him, throw him offstage and proceed usual. :)
 

keninblack

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
63
Location
Summit, NJ
When is a good time to use the jump cancel grab?

When is a good time to use the dashing grab?

Is one useless or do both have different uses? Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Also, just curious. Is Fsmash still not so useful like in Melee or does it now have uses?
 
Last edited:

keninblack

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
63
Location
Summit, NJ
Thanks for that guys, another question if you don't mind..

What do you guys do to practice by yourselves? I feel like I'm wasting time at home not playing when I'm just chilling by myself but I don't know what I should be practicing. I have the basic universal techs down like L Cancels, and Wavedashing. Any Sheik stuff I should focus on or anything else I should practice? Does practicing against the AI work? Let me know guys! Thanks
 

Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
Premium
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,458
Location
Rochester, NY
I just try to practice specific elements of movement if I'm by myself and want to practice.
For instance, maybe you have wavedashing in general down pat, but then you can expand that further and practice varying the length of your wavedashes.
And then practice wavedash OOS at varying lengths. B reversals, ledgedashing, wavelands, RARs, dash canceling, pivots, and the list goes on.
Movement is basically everything in Smash, and expanding your movement is among the best things you can do for your game.
 

Arcalyth

GLS | root
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
650
Location
West MI
Thanks for that guys, another question if you don't mind..

What do you guys do to practice by yourselves? I feel like I'm wasting time at home not playing when I'm just chilling by myself but I don't know what I should be practicing. I have the basic universal techs down like L Cancels, and Wavedashing. Any Sheik stuff I should focus on or anything else I should practice? Does practicing against the AI work? Let me know guys! Thanks
99 stock vs a Level 1 CPU. Try to 0-death them every time. When you get bored, shadowbox it, moving as seamlessly as possible to and from all parts of the stage, weaving around the CPU's hitbox ranges, in as many different forms as possible.

Various technical exercises that I like to perform with Sheik:
- figure 8 wavelands on platforms
- off of platforms, waveland>fair, waveland>RAR bair, waveland>needle, (needle)>edge cancel>needle/aerial
- dash forward, wavedash back and all sorts of variants
- RAR wavedash to ledge>shino stall
- (grounded/OOS/edge cancel/aerial)vanish to ledge>shino stall
- ledgedrop waveland>wavedash, ledgedrop waveland back to ledge
- ledgedrop wallcling (c-down>smash toward wall)/walljump fair/nair/needle turnaround

in essence you want to find as many ways to use your aerials and needles as possible, and you want to figure out as many ways to get from one point of the stage to another as possible

I like using level 9 CPUs to learn spacing and level 1 CPUs for shadowboxing and punishing.

Try the 1-minute nair challenge with Fox to speed up your fingers. In the endgame stats check the count of 'Aerial Attacks'
I recommend learning Fox's buttons in general, if only to have an understanding of how truly fast this game is.

oh, also use JC grab to cancel your dash with a grab. You can DD in someone's face then grab them. Use Boost Grab as a mixup to dash attack and use it to punish shields or bad approaches. Its range is incredible and it's easy to do consistently. It's better to use JC grab over dash grab for speed, and boost grab over dash grab for distance.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom